PDA

View Full Version : Dsa type 1 overrun sale


johnnycobra
November 21, 2017, 17:03
So I was about to throw an order in for a Coonan G1, but I got an email just now about DSA Type 1 NCH overrun uppers for $274...
I know I shouldnt. Tell me again so I dont.

munchoman
November 21, 2017, 17:32
https://www.dsarms.com/p-16839-dsa-sa58-stripped-semi-auto-fal-receiver-contract-over-run-type-1-non-carry-handle-cut.aspx

4markk
November 21, 2017, 17:42
Damn it ..... guess I have to order a couple more receivers (already have a couple on order with Coonan).

nwobhm
November 21, 2017, 17:59
Define over run? ....I see they will be Mexico marked too...

preston1026
November 21, 2017, 18:03
Someone order one and provide a review on specs :)

munchoman
November 21, 2017, 18:22
Define over run? ....I see they will be Mexico marked too...


more Mexican over runs

http://www.irunguns.com/product.ar-15-target-le-mexico-stripped-lowers

NFADLR
November 21, 2017, 18:27
Cast or Forged ?

I gots ta know...

nwobhm
November 21, 2017, 18:36
Cast or Forged ?

I gots ta know...

Oh you already know.


more Mexican over runs

http://www.irunguns.com/product.ar-15-target-le-mexico-stripped-lowers

....they aren't over runs....at least that is my understanding of how the Mexico thing works......which it's possible I don't properly understand it.....:rofl:

meltblown
November 21, 2017, 18:48
....they aren't over runs....at least that is my understanding of how the Mexico thing works......which it's possible I don't properly understand it.....:rofl:

Probably rejects if I get your drift. On the way back from the FFL stop by Lowes for some new Dremmel bits.

embatp
November 21, 2017, 19:06
SDN is the Mexican organization that controls firearms and licensing in Mexico....looked it up and found a thread on some CZ 75s that were marked the same way.....

nwobhm
November 21, 2017, 19:26
SDN is the Mexican organization that controls firearms and licensing in Mexico....looked it up and found a thread on some CZ 75s that were marked the same way.....

Yup......my understanding is every gun(if you can stretch the truth that far) is marked the same way.

Golf3Alpha
November 21, 2017, 19:42
Likely rejected.
That's O.K., I'll pass. I already have two of my own cast and assembled by D.S.A. receivers where magazines don't fit and won't feed because of Bolt Over Base. As well, the rails for the bolt were not completely machined at the front of the receiver and a Para bolt carrier will not close because of a step that raises the carrier and the top of the carrier collides with the receiver and won't allow the bolt to go home.

munchoman
November 21, 2017, 20:06
here you go "Unbeatable Lifetime warranty and quality." well from personal experience, DSA does take them back, and try to repair them



DSA SA58 Stripped Semi Auto FAL Receiver - Contract Over-Run - Type 1 Non Carry Handle Cut These FAL receivers are part of a contract over-run for a foreign order. Precision machined on all surfaces Type 1 Non Carry Handle Cut receivers are machine engraved S.D.N. MEXICO D.F. on the ejection port side as previous contract requirements. Our loss is your gain, pull that kit out of the closet.

Marked 7.62x51mm Caliber.
Made in the U.S.A. by craftsmen, the U.S.A. Gold Standard FAL Receiver.
Precision CNC machined out of 4140 steel using original FN and Steyr blueprints.
Fully heat-treated, not just induction.
Features a Mil-Spec manganese phosphate finish.
Semi Auto 2 piece ejector block installed.
Unbeatable Lifetime warranty and quality.
Over 70,000 manufactured to date.

G3isMe
November 21, 2017, 20:21
I ordered 2. They can't be any worse than the Century's that I have massaged into life. Now days for $275 I guess I will have to deal with the Mexican logo. It's better than "Made in China" ....I think.....:sad:


.

Invictus77
November 21, 2017, 20:28
I guess I will have to deal with the Mexican logo.


.

Get the mag well engraved with a Corona logo and you're GTG bro :rofl:

meltblown
November 21, 2017, 20:30
I ordered 2. They can't be any worse than the Century's that I have massaged into life. Now days for $275 I guess I will have to deal with the Mexican logo. It's better than "Made in China" ....I think.....:sad:


.

A glutton for punishment. Here's to you big guy :bow::D I ain'ts got no time to do it.

Eyeguy
November 21, 2017, 20:46
Get the mag well engraved with a Corona logo and you're GTG bro :rofl:

:bow:

It'll be easier to sell an inferior product into Mexico once Trump gets the wall built; the buyer won't be able to come back and complain!

Atla
November 22, 2017, 08:35
Interesting, DSArms website is down during 'Black Friday' week. Right after they sent out emails about their deals.

I guess I shouldn't expect much from a company that can't even keep their own mags in stock.

djfin
November 22, 2017, 11:39
It works just fine for me. I was just on it ordering a couple of AR parts

55bird
November 22, 2017, 12:24
Heck, I paid $400 after transfer in 2001 for one.16XXX

pistolero1911
November 22, 2017, 19:30
SDN is the Mexican organization that controls firearms and licensing in Mexico...

Secretaria de Defensa Nacional [SDN] is the Mexican Government's equivalent to the US Department of Defense [DOD]. More than an organization it is part of the government. In Mexico, the sale of firearms is regulated [controlled] by the SDN. There is a gun store in Mexico run by the SDN. Read that again, there is a gun store in Mexico, as in one, uno. If you want to buy a firearm legally in Mexico, you go there to make your purchase. BTW, military caliber's are illegal for the civilian market which is why the Super 38 and not the .45 ACP version of the 1911 is so popular in Mexico.

These receivers were originally ordered by SDN for Mexican Government use. I have no idea if they are rejects or actual contract overruns.

4markk
November 22, 2017, 20:22
I ordered 2. They can't be any worse than the Century's that I have massaged into life. Now days for $275 I guess I will have to deal with the Mexican logo. It's better than "Made in China" ....I think......

My thoughts exactly. Besides, they don't go bad sitting on the shelf.

falbuild
November 23, 2017, 01:59
I need about 4 FAL receivers but even at $275, it's hard for me to justify when AR10 receivers are just $80 shipped. Might end up selling my kits instead of building them.

Old Sarge
November 23, 2017, 09:45
I wasn't planning on doing another Fal build but I might like a carbine version.

Old Sarge

gunners
November 23, 2017, 09:51
They also have NOS Argy bipod cut handguard's and "good" STG-58 handguard's for $30 a pop this weekend.

fal fiend
November 27, 2017, 16:56
Anyone built 1 of these yet ??

lelandEOD
November 28, 2017, 10:50
I bought one and it's already giving me trouble. The magazine well is too tight (mag won't lock in) and the barrel doesn't even come close to timing correctly.

The mag fit can be adjusted by shaping the mag catch but the timing issue is going to be a real hassle.

:thumbsdown:

biyf
November 28, 2017, 11:48
Bust out the grinder!!! :D

lelandEOD
November 28, 2017, 13:17
F'ing frustrating. This is about 100ft/lbs.

https://i.imgur.com/vhD43gbb.jpg

fal fiend
November 28, 2017, 18:50
rather under than overtimed

VAplinker
November 28, 2017, 18:55
You may need to use some Kentucky windage

meltblown
November 28, 2017, 19:02
Actually I'd face off the receiver with these if it undertimed and you got a nice barrel you don't want to screw with the shoulder. Make sure the barrel isn't bottoming out on the breach

Flypaper
November 28, 2017, 20:07
Actually I'd face off the receiver with these if it undertimed and you got a nice barrel you don't want to screw with the shoulder. Make sure the barrel isn't bottoming out on the breach

In some cases I would have to agree, and this will be one of them. Mess with what you value less .

hkshooter
November 28, 2017, 20:25
Actually I'd face off the receiver with these if it undertimed and you got a nice barrel you don't want to screw with the shoulder. Make sure the barrel isn't bottoming out on the breach

In some cases I would have to agree, and this will be one of them. Mess with what you value less .

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Fix the defective part, don't modify good parts to fit junk ones.

G3isMe
November 28, 2017, 20:29
Mine are scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I'll hand time some barrels and post my results here. That is if the OP doesn't mind me posting that info in his thread. I have my fingers crossed that I don't have similar luck as leland did. That sucks. What sucks even more is that I purchased these knowing full well that they will most likely need a lot of work to get them to function properly. It is a sad state of affairs that we can't buy a product and expect it to perform properly....

308/223shooter
November 28, 2017, 22:02
I stand by my previous post, regarding why these are sold as "over runs". I mean seriously, would anyone buy these if they were advertised as "Seriously out of spec, may need a shit load of work to make them fit IN SPEC parts kits."

lelandEOD
November 28, 2017, 22:26
.....aaaaaaaaand the locking shoulder hole is undersize by about .004Ē.

Calling DSA tomorrow. Thank god.

gunplumber
November 29, 2017, 08:36
.....aaaaaaaaand the locking shoulder hole is undersize by about .004Ē.

Calling DSA tomorrow. Thank god.

At least it isn't oversize like on this last Coonan.
https://youtu.be/FG0v814yHNo

Mebsuta
November 29, 2017, 08:39
I might get one. I wouldn't mind having a MeXXican FAL.

gunplumber
November 29, 2017, 08:42
I bought one and it's already giving me trouble. The magazine well is too tight (mag won't lock in) and the barrel doesn't even come close to timing correctly.

The mag fit can be adjusted by shaping the mag catch but the timing issue is going to be a real hassle.

:thumbsdown:

NO! Do not adjust the mag catch. That will only hold the mag lower and cause bolt-over-base. This is what DSA did when my customer sent his defective DSA-built rifle back to DSA. The problem is in the front of the mag well and the underside of the rails.

Dave is well aware of this defect and sells them anyway. He even threatened to sue me for pointing it out (bring it, bitch!). It's the Chicago Way. All it really did was get me to collect 17 years of records, of Dave selling defective parts long after being put on notice as to their defects.

Go to 2:12 to see how I work around the defective L1A1 receivers. Principle is the same for the FAL, just a little easier machine work. I need to find an upside down dovetail cutter. Right now I use a keyway cutter and finish by hand.

https://youtu.be/Zk9ciOEMUIo?t=123

slavicshooter
November 29, 2017, 10:13
...on the defective product. :]:bow::facepalm:
https://s7.postimg.org/lsok2pahn/2017-11-29_09.02.28.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/bim53gklz/)

lelandEOD
November 29, 2017, 18:34
Iím thinking of just buying a reamer and doing it myself. Mr. Graham, what is the appropriate size reamer for a FAL receiver?

gunplumber
November 29, 2017, 19:01
I’m thinking of just buying a reamer and doing it myself. Mr. Graham, what is the appropriate size reamer for a FAL receiver?

If it's anything like the ones I did last month, just some 100# on a slit rod and flap sand it. You'll probably see a high spot on the edge of the hole, and some rough spots from center to left side (pushing shoulder forward during insertion. Your "stop" point is when you still have a trace of finish in the low spots.

As to the specs, I have several factory prints, and they are close but not exact.

#1 .2965"-.0010"
#1 .2960 +/- .005
#1 7.5311 -.0254mm (converted)

#2 7.525 +/- .0175
#2 .2963 +/- .0007 (converted)

Which creates a problem, unless you get something custom ground.
19/64 is .2969 which is too big
7.5mm is .2953 and is too small.

fal fiend
November 29, 2017, 19:03
hard to believe they would sell something this out of spec at any price

G3isMe
November 29, 2017, 22:07
I picked up my two DSA Mexican receivers today. My first impression was that they look pretty good. They have a dark parkerized finish and the Mexico marks are pretty large and quite noticeable. So they look good, but will they go together without the use of a machine shop, that is the question. From what Iíve heard, and experienced myself, some of the problems with the newer DSA receivers include issues with lockup with a lower, magazine lockup, barrel timing, bolt carrier dragging, and locking shoulder bores being undersized. Therefore the first thing that I looked at was barrel timing. I used a G1 barrel and hand timed both receivers with the same barrel. Both of the receivers hand timed to gunplumberís golden triangle. So that is good news. I then installed a G1 magazine catch and bolt hold open. I used a surplus STG magazine and the same mag catch parts on both receivers. The magazines fit correctly in the mag well and locked tight in both of the receivers. I didnít have any issues with the pin hole or fit of the parts. So far so good. Next up I checked the function of a bolt and carrier. I used a G1 bolt and carrier and they slid back and forth on the rails in both receivers without any hangs or other issues. I then started a locking shoulder in each of the receivers and they started okay. I didnít pound them in all the way but I am confident they will install just fine. The last thing I did was install the receivers on lowers. I used G1 lowers with hinge pins. Both receivers locked up good and tight. The lockup may have to be fine-tuned when I actually build these but I am quite satisfied with how they went together.


Going from my experience alone, and a sample size of only twoÖ:facepalm:.. thus far I have to give these receivers a thumbs up. The Mexican markings arenít too obnoxious so I think they will look good on most builds. I hope this was helpful and will better inform your decision as to whether or not you will buy one of these receivers.


http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86775&stc=1&d=1512009679
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86776&stc=1&d=1512009683
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86777&stc=1&d=1512009701
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86778&stc=1&d=1512009706
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86779&stc=1&d=1512010583
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86780&stc=1&d=1512010658
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86781&stc=1&d=1512010687

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86786&stc=1&d=1512011437

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86784&stc=1&d=1512010739
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86785&stc=1&d=1512010981

pl521
November 29, 2017, 22:15
Thank for the feedback Rick. I hope the two I ordered are as good as yours.

denny
November 29, 2017, 22:37
NO mexico
haven't they stolen enough.
Denny

Invictus77
November 29, 2017, 23:36
https://i.imgur.com/GPTGdtr.jpg

G3isMe
November 30, 2017, 00:29
LMAO....https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-27-2015/7U5-fP.gif

JonathanW
November 30, 2017, 01:16
I really have to stop coming to this forum , itís bad for my wallet

I just bought one to....

Itís very addictive

fal fiend
November 30, 2017, 06:44
Sounds like luck of the draw

Flypaper
November 30, 2017, 06:47
If it's anything like the ones I did last month, just some 100# on a slit rod and flap sand it.

Wow, just Wow. :facepalm:

The only thing that needs to go in the locking should hole is a carbide reamer sharp enough to cut your finger on, with the receiver clamped in a vise on a mill.

Very bad advice.

It sounded like very good advice to me. A flap sander takes up very little material at a time. A carbide reamer would take special tools that most people don’t have. It’s a pressfit item anyways.

Mebsuta
November 30, 2017, 07:44
Yes and not everyone has a mill and vise handy either.

gunplumber
November 30, 2017, 07:45
It sounded like very good advice to me. A flap sander takes up very little material at a time. A carbide reamer would take special tools that most people donít have. Itís a pressfit item anyways.

That loser's been on my ignore list for years, so I didn't see it until you quoted it.

You want to get a custom ground reamer - go for it. Should set you back around $300. How much was the receiver?

I'll continue to flap sand. A demonstration is in my review of DS35660 image 7 in this thread.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417510

lelandEOD
November 30, 2017, 12:03
I got the barrel timed properly after I borrowed a friend‘s drill powered barrel shoulder shaving tool. I was able to get my rifle assembled last night as well. I ended up following Gun plumbers advice and used a bit of adhesive backed sandpaper wrapped around a small round file to gently enlarge the locking shoulder hole. It only took about 5-10 minutes carefully filing and measuring as I went.

Overall, I’m happy even though I was a little frustrated at first and may even order a second one while they’re cheap. I will have to weld ip the Mexico bit though... it just wouldn’t look right on a STG58.

fal fiend
November 30, 2017, 12:57
how did u fix the magwell problem ??

FUUN063
November 30, 2017, 19:16
I don't see whether these receivers are cast or forged, but I'm bettin' they are cast. And, are they truly "machined on all surfaces" as stated in the ad? Curious.

Also, with these new Mex marked receivers, that's just one more country to try and build the rifle and add to the collection. :rofl:



Leland

pl521
November 30, 2017, 19:35
Also, with these new Mex marked receivers, that's just one more country to try and build the rifle and add to the collection. :rofl:

Leland

Does anyone know configuration the Mexican FAL? Para perhaps?

embatp
November 30, 2017, 21:16
Does anyone know configuration the Mexican FAL? Para perhaps?

I think they are just standard Dsa fals....there were not for the Mexican military

pl521
November 30, 2017, 22:18
I think they are just standard Dsa fals....there were not for the Mexican military

Thanks. Thinking of building a para with a mexican mark DSA receiver.

G3isMe
November 30, 2017, 22:24
I don't see whether these receivers are cast or forged, but I'm bettin' they are cast. And, are they truly "machined on all surfaces" as stated in the ad? Curious.

Also, with these new Mex marked receivers, that's just one more country to try and build the rifle and add to the collection. :rofl:



Leland

"They are cast, that's all we make now" DSA salesman's response to my question inquiring about these receivers when I made my purchases. So cast they are.



.

VAplinker
December 01, 2017, 19:06
I think they are just standard Dsa fals....there were not for the Mexican military

Who were they intended for?

embatp
December 01, 2017, 21:51
Who were they intended for?

The very limited civilian market in Mexico I guess

fal fiend
December 01, 2017, 22:33
The drug runners union/lol

stoicrabbit
December 01, 2017, 23:00
Who were they intended for?

Due to the caliber, not the civilian market.

hkshooter
December 01, 2017, 23:36
Due to the caliber, not the civilian market.

This.

But I have to wonder, is the military metric 7.62 the caliber that is verboten? Or 308? Or are they considered to be the same down there in Mehico? Is civie 308 allowed?

Curious.

308/223shooter
December 02, 2017, 00:37
This.

But I have to wonder, is the military metric 7.62 the caliber that is verboten? Or 308? Or are they considered to be the same down there in Mehico? Is civie 308 allowed?

Curious.

No military caliber is allowed, and that includes anything used by NATO.

gunplumber
December 02, 2017, 04:20
No military caliber is allowed, and that includes anything used by NATO.

Thus the popularity of 1911s in .38 Super.

hkshooter
December 02, 2017, 07:29
No military caliber is allowed, and that includes anything used by NATO.

Yes. But there are some FALs that are marked .308 are there not? Would those be allowed? Or are they considered the same as 7.62?

pistolero1911
December 02, 2017, 09:31
Yes. But there are some FALs that are marked .308 are there not? Would those be allowed? Or are they considered the same as 7.62?

The Mexican Government's prohibition on military caliber's for civilian use contemplates things like the .308/7.62 x 51mm and .223/5.56 x 45mm designations for essentially identical cartridges. They weren't born yesterday.

Dean762
December 06, 2017, 11:50
Likely rejected.
That's O.K., I'll pass. I already have two of my own cast and assembled by D.S.A. receivers where magazines don't fit and won't feed because of Bolt Over Base. As well, the rails for the bolt were not completely machined at the front of the receiver and a Para bolt carrier will not close because of a step that raises the carrier and the top of the carrier collides with the receiver and won't allow the bolt to go home.

Amen. I have had similar problems.

Zimm
December 06, 2017, 13:24
These remind me of a jimmy buffet song
She's a real beauty
A Mexican cutie
How it got here I haven't a clue:angel:

lockjaw
December 06, 2017, 14:39
Coonan has progressively improved their product based upon consumer input. It appears DSA's product quality has steadily declined while apparently given consumers the middle finger.

With Coonan knocking out nice receivers for very reasonable prices, why would anyone waste their time with the current DSA offerings?

I want to add, this is very disappointing observation, as the last time I actively built FALs, DSA was the supreme gold standard for miles.

308/223shooter
December 06, 2017, 15:35
Coonan has progressively improved their product based upon consumer input. It appears DSA's product quality has steadily declined while apparently given consumers the middle finger.

With Coonan knocking out nice receivers for very reasonable prices, why would anyone waste their time with the current DSA offerings?

I want to add, this is very disappointing observation, as the last time I actively built FALs, DSA was the supreme gold standard for miles.

Have you watched Marks videos on Coonan receivers?

lockjaw
December 06, 2017, 18:16
Have you watched Marks videos on Coonan receivers?

I just watched them, from a couple months ago apparently.

Well shit, that sucks.

Edgartwib
December 06, 2017, 19:05
I found this pic online. Looks like a Federale with a well worn Para to me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/MexicanRadio-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Tim_Orrock/media/MexicanRadio-1.jpg.html)

johnnycobra
December 06, 2017, 20:07
Have you watched Marks videos on Coonan receivers?


Werent those videos on the oddball, special coonans (R1, type 2, L1A1)? Not the standard type 3 or type 1?
Not sayimg they are good, but I was thinking that there werent real known issues with the G1, Type 1 and standard "argue type 3" from coonan.

MK ULTRA
December 06, 2017, 21:32
G3, you better go buy some lottery tickets...

DSARMS_REP
December 06, 2017, 22:12
We sold 11" and 16" short gas system fals to Mexico and like Colt and many other us arms manufactures Mexico was one of our largest customers and like Colt they(mexico) recently scaled back orders and this is why Colt is selling Mexico overruns (6920s) as well.

G3isMe
December 06, 2017, 22:23
G3, you better go buy some lottery tickets...


.
LOL, I did...:whistling:. Good to hear from you MK.

pl521
December 06, 2017, 23:19
We sold 11" and 16" short gas system fals to Mexico and like Colt and many other us arms manufactures Mexico was one of our largest customers and like Colt they(mexico) recently scaled back orders and this is why Colt is selling Mexico overruns (6920s) as well.

Were any of the FALs sold by DS Arms to Mexico in para configuration with folding stock?

Would appreciate if you can post pictures of DS Arms Mexican FALs for reference.

Hvt98
December 06, 2017, 23:27
Received 2 receivers a few days ago

Noticed the locking shoulders holes r undersized on both receivers.

Is that a if deal to master Fal builders?

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 08:21
Were any of the FALs sold by DS Arms to Mexico in para configuration with folding stock?

Would appreciate if you can post pictures of DS Arms Mexican FALs for reference.

, Mexico bought 99% paras I actually don't remember any fixed stock Mexico rifles. I will go through pics and post some stuff we will be doing alot of posting pics soon anyways.

pl521
December 07, 2017, 08:36
, Mexico bought 99% paras I actually don't remember any fixed stock Mexico rifles. I will go through pics and post some stuff we will be doing alot of posting pics soon anyways.


Thanks. This is helpful. Will try to build paras with the two receivers I purchased.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 08:43
Thanks. This is helpful. Will try to build paras with the two receivers I purchased.

The configuration for a Mexico 16" is

Standard para stock
non extended scope mount
saw grip
short gas system ctc barrel
trident flashider
Izzy mag release
standard selector
Polymer handguards with bolt on side rails(or DSA quad rail handguard)
Standard para rear sight

Rifle 100% black all small parts painted black

The 11" Mexico is the same as above but with an 11" barrel Mexico bought both select fire and semi auto rifles

lew
December 07, 2017, 12:06
Received 2 receivers a few days ago

Noticed the locking shoulders holes r undersized on both receivers.

Is that a if deal to master Fal builders?

I sent two R1 receivers back to DSA (on their dime) for the same problem. My buddy and I put a regular Type 1 together last night and he just took a couple thousandths off the back of the locking shoulder dog leg with a sanding block. Either way works. If using the latter, make sure to put some sort of protective finish on it. All that dog leg does is prevent the shoulder from twisting.

Hvt98
December 07, 2017, 18:29
Talked to DSA Customer Service today. They're taking them back on their dime to fix them.

No BS lifetime warranty. Thus concerns are moot.


Received 2 receivers a few days ago

Noticed the locking shoulders holes r undersized on both receivers.

Is that a if deal to master Fal builders?

brad8e
December 09, 2017, 18:28
I am currently in the middle of a build using the Mexico contract over-run receivers. So far only issues I've run into are with the magazine release screw not screwing down flush with the receiver, and magazines needing a good smack to seat properly.

Barrel hand tightened to about 10:30. Receiver locks up fine into my lower. Top cover went on fine, bolt slides without binding. Bolt locks back fine. Magazine release functions fine.

Waiting for my tools from FAL tools to come in so I can torque down the barrel and size the locking shoulder.

Almost at the finish line.

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 01:57
My build turned out to be the most problematic experience I've ever had. Your mileage may vary, but I doubt it.

mp
December 12, 2017, 09:00
My build turned out to be the most problematic experience I've ever had. Your mileage may vary, but I doubt it.

Your Mexico overrun receiver assembly? Or another DSA receiver run?

lockjaw
December 12, 2017, 09:49
Talked to DSA Customer Service today. They're taking them back on their dime to fix them.

No BS lifetime warranty. Thus concerns are moot.

I prefer not to have my time wasted. I find it concerning if I have to waste my time ordering, making the trip to my FFL (and paying transfer fees), starting and haulting the build process, contacting the manufacturer, repackaging and shipping back to the manufacturer, waiting for a resolution, waiting for the replacement (hopefully) to arrive, driving back to my FFL (and paying for another transfer), and attempting the build again......... all because the manufacturer chooses not to inspect their product (or turns a blind eye?) before dumping it off on me. That is BS.

def90
December 12, 2017, 10:16
Who were they intended for?

They are marked SDN so that would be the Secretaria de la Defensa Nacional aka Dept of Defense.

lockjaw
December 12, 2017, 10:41
I would be cool to build one of these to go along with my S.D.N. Colts! I wish it wasn't such a gamble.

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 11:59
I wanted a cost effective receiver to use a chrome lined barrel I have for a all round fun gun. Thought it'd be cool and unique { in my AO anyway } to have the Mexican logo on it. Turns out I got a bad one.

mp
December 12, 2017, 12:09
Just bought one for kicks. Will let you know what arrives--beauty or beast.

hkshooter
December 12, 2017, 12:12
I find it interesting the new DSA-REP has nothing to say about these issues or this thread.

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 14:31
Just bought one for kicks. Will let you know what arrives--beauty or beast.

Well, mine is so warped it's un-usable as is. I can't in good faith sell it to anouther builder, and I'm sure now that I've worked on it it's no longer under warranty. I'm going to just move on and save for a Imbel or FMAP, at least I know a build will only take a hour with one of those.

1911Ron
December 12, 2017, 15:25
Well, mine is so warped it's un-usable as is. I can't in good faith sell it to anouther builder, and I'm sure now that I've worked on it it's no longer under warranty. I'm going to just move on and save for a Imbel or FMAP, at least I know a build will only take a hour with one of those.

Sadly like the other DSA Reps will ignore the real problem (warped receivers,holes not threaded deep enough, incomplete or piss poor machining, over or under sized locking shoulder hole, etc etc etc...) and instead attack knowledgeable forum members who point out well known and ignored issues.

4markk
December 12, 2017, 18:09
driving back to my FFL (and paying for another transfer), and attempting the build again......... all because the manufacturer chooses not to inspect their product (or turns a blind eye?) before dumping it off on me. That is BS.

DSA can return it DIRECTLY to the owner under the 'gunsmith and factory repair' exception: if you ship a gun to a gunsmith or factory for repair, they can mail it directly back to you.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/atf-form-4473-required-when-gunsmith-returns-repaired-firearm

(The link is ONLY for those that dare go to a Government site.)

G3isMe
December 12, 2017, 23:48
Well, mine is so warped it's un-usable as is. I can't in good faith sell it to anouther builder, and I'm sure now that I've worked on it it's no longer under warranty. I'm going to just move on and save for a Imbel or FMAP, at least I know a build will only take a hour with one of those.

Rich I am sure others would like to see this receiver. Pictures please so hopefully if DSA Rep does show up here he should feel obligated to explain what we are seeing in the pictures. I am quite interested in how he <s>rationalizes</s> spins a warped receiver.


.

308/223shooter
December 13, 2017, 01:18
Rich I am sure others would like to see this receiver. Pictures please so hopefully if DSA Rep does show up here he should feel obligated to explain what we are seeing in the pictures. I am quite interested in how he <s>rationalizes</s> spins a warped receiver.


.

I've already disposed of it. It went to someone with a machine shop and more time to waste than I can spare.
Would dsa have replaced it? Far as I'm concerned wasn't worth the risk of getting anouther bad one.
I'll save up more cash and buy anouther Imbel.

2112
December 13, 2017, 19:14
That loser's been on my ignore list for years, so I didn't see it until you quoted it.

You want to get a custom ground reamer - go for it. Should set you back around $300. How much was the receiver?

I'll continue to flap sand. A demonstration is in my review of DS35660 image 7 in this thread.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417510

where do you get $300.00 for a custom ground reamer??? a .296" carbide reamer is $59.00.using a flap sander for a LSH?????.......ugh

gunplumber
December 14, 2017, 07:49
where do you get $300.00 for a custom ground reamer??? a .296" carbide reamer is $59.00.using a flap sander for a LSH?????.......ugh

It's not a .296. Add another significant figure and watch the price go up. -ugh!

Right Side Up
December 14, 2017, 12:24
A carbide reamer is in the 35 dollar range, and to have a tool guy cut it smaller is about another 35. I know. I do it for a living.

Lets' see how long it takes a mod to remove this post too.

4x401
December 14, 2017, 13:12
Lets' see how long it takes a mod to remove this post too.


Why would your post be removed? Nothing offensive written....just a good 'ol contradictory opinion. Thats what makes America GREAT! 😁

CQB27
December 14, 2017, 13:42
Why would your post be removed? Nothing offensive written....just a good 'ol contradictory opinion. Thats what makes America GREAT! 😁
I don't have a dog in the fight.....I am not knowledgeable enough on carbide cutters, machining parts, or FALs for that matter to comment on way or the other.

I have been reading this thread from the beginning, and in Right Side Up's defense, he has had at least two comments mysteriously disappear from this thread. In both he was disagreeing with a member on gunsmith stuff, but neither seemed like they were out of line. I am really new to this forum so I have no idea if he violated some rule, but based on other comments I have read here when members disagree, I kind of doubt it. Who knows? Maybe just "just a good 'ol contradictory opinion" don't fly around here?:fingerwag:

gunplumber
December 15, 2017, 09:30
in Right Side Up's defense, he has had at least two comments mysteriously disappear from this thread.

I wouldn't know. That jackass has been on my ignore list for a decade.

lew
December 15, 2017, 11:57
Yeah, disappearing posts containing a dissenting opinion is f****d.:|

G3isMe
December 15, 2017, 13:39
Yeah, disappearing posts containing a dissenting opinion is f****d.:|

Yep all of flypaper's, among others, and my posts which I made aimed at right side ups condescending comments were deleted also. I thought that was BS as well. Admittedly I assumed RSU had whined to a moderator. I guess I may have been incorrect in that assumption.

hkshooter
December 15, 2017, 21:32
An opposite or dissenting opinion being stated is one thing. Loading it with vitriol and sarcasm is another. Like-wise, retorts to such posts are also often deleted, likely to be fair to the other people.
This is the tone of what I hear. I highly doubt RSU's posts were simply opposite opinions but that's just my take, being familiar with his style.
I'm willing to bet any further posts that fan the flames will also disappear in kind. Some of my own have disappeared but I'm fine with that. Not my house. I'll play me, the governor can play him.

Right Side Up
December 15, 2017, 22:37
Yep all of flypaper's, among others, and my posts which I made aimed at right side ups condescending comments were deleted also. I thought that was BS as well. Admittedly I assumed RSU had whined to a moderator. I guess I may have been incorrect in that assumption.

I didn't whine to anyone.

LelandEOD said he had a receiver with a .004" undersize locking shoulder bore. His first choice was to buy the correct size reamer and machine it as it should have been done at DSA. A gunsmith said not to do that, just get some 100 grit sanding roll and a split rod and grind it out. Sorry, but you can't accurately grind .004" out of an interrupted hole and keep it straight, round, and to size. Aint gonna happen I don't care how good someone thinks he is.

The gunsmith says a carbide reamer is $300. It isn't. Here's one for $26. It's 7.5mm, which is .2953". A sharp carbide reamer will cut slightly larger than it measures, so the hole would end up about .2956".

https://www.ebay.com/i/162513974250?chn=ps

The easiest way for Leland to fix his receiver is to mail it to a gunsmith to have the hole reamed correctly, then have it mailed back. No transfer involved. It would take about 15 minutes in a mill so shouldn't cost much.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/atf-form-4473-required-when-gunsmith-returns-repaired-firearm

The bolt thrust on a .308 Winchester is about 10,00 pounds. The locking shoulder hole has to be straight to support the locking shoulder, otherwise you risk a broken locking shoulder from flexing it. Not trying to start anything here, but I hate bad advice being posted. This isn't AR building, it's way more involved. If you're going to do something, do it right.

308/223shooter
December 15, 2017, 23:37
I'm still waiting on the RMA the DSAREP said he'd send me, for that defective gas block.

hkshooter
December 16, 2017, 08:07
I'm still waiting on the RMA the DSAREP said he'd send me, for that defective gas block.

Kind of disappeared, didn't he? Possibly The Chicago Way is still healthy and in full operation?

lew
December 18, 2017, 12:17
I'm still waiting on the RMA the DSAREP said he'd send me, for that defective gas block.

Go to DSA's site and use the chat box on the front page.

Golf3Alpha
December 19, 2017, 09:42
But then the FAL bug bit me again and I purchased one of these receivers.
I got it last week and twisted a StG barrel on it. It torqued and timed perfectly. Next I checked headspace and purchased a locking shoulder from DSA. I received it yesterday. It pressed-in beautifully. Magazines fit and function. No B.O.B., or anything like that. Every round from my magazines chamber without fault. The Imbel bolt and carrier slide in easily and function normally. The charging handle and dust cover install like they should. The threads for the mag release/BHO screw are tapped properly. The only slight flaw that I noticed is that the top of the ejector block is not flush with the carrier rails, but recessed about .010". This means that I do not want to use a sand cut carrier because the bottom of the carrier cuts want to remove material from the elevated rear end corners of the carrier rails while reciprocating back-and-forth. I have seen this issue on other receivers. I am good to go with a standard carrier and everything functions as it should. This receiver is an improvement over earlier versions of the DSA cast receiver.

gunplumber
December 21, 2017, 11:21
The first of the DSA Mexican "overrun" receivers came up for a build. DSA 32243, type 1 NCH Mexico.

I went through my normal check list and it passed each step - threads, timing, mag fit (tight, but ok), rails, etc. Except for lockup. StG lower with standard receiver lock had lever way too far to rear. This is correctable, as I have a fixture for grinding receiver locks to undersize. I could even regrind the lock lug on receiver to correct dimension. So not perfect, but just an annoyance. I was optimistic.

Last step on the list is locking shoulder dogleg and hole. Dog leg recess was good. Hole on right side was excessively tight. I had a discussion with another competent builder about his receiver also having excessively tight hole. I considered it might be a compression of the hole mouth from cutting the dogleg recess. Maybe it only needed a little deburring? So I checked the left side. Locking shoulder fell in with no pressure. Uh oh. So I tried a new, OS-1 shoulder and it fell right in. A new OS-2 as well. A new OS-3 required moderate thumb pressure.

Receiver is fundamentally defective and non-repairable. So perhaps "contract overrun" is a euphemism for "rejected"? One is not a pattern. We'll see when I get to the next one.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa32243-mex-01.jpg

hkshooter
December 21, 2017, 11:32
^ Uh oh.

lew
December 21, 2017, 11:39
Well... shit.

I think it is safe to dispense with any optimism regarding DSA's performance. :facepalm:

lockjaw
December 21, 2017, 12:47
DSA can return it DIRECTLY to the owner under the 'gunsmith and factory repair' exception: if you ship a gun to a gunsmith or factory for repair, they can mail it directly back to you.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/atf-form-4473-required-when-gunsmith-returns-repaired-firearm

(The link is ONLY for those that dare go to a Government site.)

Understood. That doesn't help me if I the receiver needs to be replaced with a different serial number.

Either way it is waste of time and money. I have a family, a career and military obligations. Shooting and gunsmithing is a hobby which is I enjoy, and the time relegated to such activities is sparse. It upsets me when that time is compromised because of another party's complacency and/or lack of giving a shit.... especially when I paid for that service or product.

It baffles me that anyone would make excuses to defend an establishment which delivers out of spec receivers (or any other item for that matter). If I pay for an item, I expect an item as advertised. It is bullshit arguments from bullshit fanboys which perpetuate shit products being dumped on the consumer.

gunplumber
December 21, 2017, 13:04
Any manufacturer can exchange directly with the end user.

Different serial number doesn't matter under federal law, because the manufacturer (or importer) is the beginning point of any firearms serial number search (trace). Their log books will show it was returned, and the replacement shipped.

Exception - state laws where the the serial number is "registered" to the owner. Don't know about that - my state doesn't register firearms.

tdb59
December 21, 2017, 13:04
Understood. That doesn't help me if I the receiver needs to be replaced with a different serial number.

.

The manufacturer can replace with a different serialed receiver direct to you.

Whether they will or not is another issue.


https://www.atf.gov/file/55561/download

"It is held, therefore, that a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition of a replacement firearm of the same kind and type where such a firearm is delivered by a licensee to the person from whom the malfunctioning or damaged firearm was received."




...................

HenryIV
December 21, 2017, 14:15
Hey Guys, that's my defective receiver in post #116. I plan to ask DSA to "upgrade" me to a non-discounted Type one. I'm ok with paying the difference. Hopefully, I will not get another dud. As a long time shooter, but total FAL newbie this has been quite an education. My only past experience with DSA was looking at their booth at Knob Creek.

lockjaw
December 21, 2017, 16:41
Any manufacturer can exchange directly with the end user.

Different serial number doesn't matter under federal law, because the manufacturer (or importer) is the beginning point of any firearms serial number search (trace). Their log books will show it was returned, and the replacement shipped.

Exception - state laws where the the serial number is "registered" to the owner. Don't know about that - my state doesn't register firearms.

I did not know that. Cool.

Capt D
December 21, 2017, 19:39
I'm about to embark on my first experience with one of these DSA 'over-run' receivers. Will be building an Imbel kit on one during Christmas week for a fellow member; will do my best to take photos and document the build. At first glance, the barrel and receiver threads seem to be a bit tight, and I didn't want to force things (I was leaving for work when I briefly handled the kit and receiver). I'm guessing it's excess phosphating in on the receiver threads, but I'll know for sure once I have a couple hours to fine-tooth-comb things...more to come. -Art

Bama Steve
December 21, 2017, 20:53
Sounds fishy to me, Capt D.

Keep us posted of your catch and best wishes, Sir.

:D

MFC
December 21, 2017, 21:14
Looking forward to the pictures and review. Keep us posted.

Capt D
December 21, 2017, 23:06
Looking forward to the pictures and review. Keep us posted.

Sounds fishy to me, Capt D.

Keep us posted of your catch and best wishes, Sir.

:D

I sure will. I don't think it'll be too big a deal, from the look of it. Push comes to shove, I'll just have to chase the threads. I'm working 5pm-5am every night until Christmas morn, so I should have some more time to get to the bottom of it...just have had no time thus far. Kit is a very nice one, I'm looking forward to the build.

hkshooter
December 21, 2017, 23:09
The first of the DSA Mexican "overrun" receivers came up for a build. DSA 32243, type 1 NCH Mexico.

I went through my normal check list and it passed each step - threads, timing, mag fit (tight, but ok), rails, etc. Except for lockup. StG lower with standard receiver lock had lever way too far to rear. This is correctable, as I have a fixture for grinding receiver locks to undersize. I could even regrind the lock lug on receiver to correct dimension. So not perfect, but just an annoyance. I was optimistic.

Last step on the list is locking shoulder dogleg and hole. Dog leg recess was good. Hole on right side was excessively tight. I had a discussion with another competent builder about his receiver also having excessively tight hole. I considered it might be a compression of the hole mouth from cutting the dogleg recess. Maybe it only needed a little deburring? So I checked the left side. Locking shoulder fell in with no pressure. Uh oh. So I tried a new, OS-1 shoulder and it fell right in. A new OS-2 as well. A new OS-3 required moderate thumb pressure.

Receiver is fundamentally defective and non-repairable. So perhaps "contract overrun" is a euphemism for "rejected"? One is not a pattern. We'll see when I get to the next one.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa32243-mex-01.jpg

Mark, have you pinned the hole to see what it's actual ID is?

nwobhm
December 22, 2017, 05:02
...Receiver is fundamentally defective and non-repairable....So perhaps "contract overrun" is a euphemism for "rejected"? ...

See post #4

G3isMe
December 23, 2017, 01:39
..... So I checked the left side. Locking shoulder fell in with no pressure. Uh oh. So I tried a new, OS-1 shoulder and it fell right in. A new OS-2 as well. A new OS-3 required moderate thumb pressure.

Receiver is fundamentally defective and non-repairable. So perhaps "contract overrun" is a euphemism for "rejected"? One is not a pattern. We'll see when I get to the next one.



Does this ever suck....How pathetic ....:facepalm:.... I did not check the left side of my receivers, instead assuming if the right side was correct the left side would be as well. I should have know not to let my guard down with this company. I will be checking mine tomorrow. :sad:

lelandEOD
December 23, 2017, 12:37
With the current state of affairs, I wish LMT would start making FAL receivers on their own.

Southern 7.62
December 23, 2017, 19:37
With the current state of affairs, I wish LMT would start making FAL receivers on their own.

I'll second that. It would be great to see a company produce quality in spec forged FAL rifles and receivers, like Bula is doing with the M14. Not to totally trash DSA or compare the two (DSA and Bula). But, I can say I've had issues with both of my new DSA FAL style rifles. Both had feeding issues related to poor barrel chamfer, and for what I paid new...they both should have left the factory in perfect working condition. But, DSA stood behind the warranty. Seeing what Bula is doing now with the M14, one would think a company could do similar with the FAL. Id like to see it happen.

4x401
December 23, 2017, 19:55
With the current state of affairs, I wish LMT would start making FAL receivers on their own.

That would be my Christmas wish as well. I know baby Jesus would LOVE an in-spec FAL receiver !! :love:

I do admit to being disappointed by this latest receiver atrocity inflicted by DSA...I was going to buy one, sure as hell glad I didn't. :sad:

rubicon923
December 23, 2017, 20:59
I'm not an FAL expert like many on this forum, but did want to share an insight regarding the inconsistent quality discussed in many threads including this one.

Whenever a vendor (no matter who the vendor is) sells poor quality FAL parts, it damages the reputation of ALL FALs in the eyes of the general shooting community.

The general gun enthusiast who is not a hard core FAL guy doesn't have the knowledge to distinguish early LMT receivers from DSA forged receivers from DSA cast receivers. All the general enthusiast knows is that SOME FAL's have problems and may decide to buy something else.

308/223shooter
December 23, 2017, 21:56
I'm not an FAL expert like many on this forum, but did want to share an insight regarding the inconsistent quality discussed in many threads including this one.

Whenever a vendor (no matter who the vendor is) sells poor quality FAL parts, it damages the reputation of ALL FALs in the eyes of the general shooting community.

The general gun enthusiast who is not a hard core FAL guy doesn't have the knowledge to distinguish early LMT receivers from DSA forged receivers from DSA cast receivers. All the general enthusiast knows is that SOME FAL's have problems and may decide to buy something else.

Maybe in order for DSA to up their sales of AR's, they need to convince the buyers NOT to buy FAL's?

G3isMe
December 23, 2017, 22:35
..... So I checked the left side. Locking shoulder fell in with no pressure. Uh oh. So I tried a new, OS-1 shoulder and it fell right in. A new OS-2 as well. A new OS-3 required moderate thumb pressure.

Receiver is fundamentally defective and non-repairable. So perhaps "contract overrun" is a euphemism for "rejected"? One is not a pattern. We'll see when I get to the next one.


Does this ever suck....How pathetic ....:facepalm:.... I did not check the left side of my receivers, instead assuming if the right side was correct the left side would be as well. I should have know not to let my guard down with this company. I will be checking mine tomorrow. :sad:


After reading gunplumbers post the other day I realized that I had not tried this QC check. So today I tried to install a locking shoulder through the left side and unfortunately I was "successful" on one of my two DSA Mexicans. So color my A$$ chapped..:mad:...

I have about 30 locking shoulders so I grabbed a locking shoulder at random from the bins and tried to insert it into the left side of the in question receivers. I was able to push by hand 3 different standard shaft size locking shoulders into the left side of DSA Receiver DSA 32202 (see photos). I was unable to do this with my other DSA Mex receiver (DSA 31969). I guess I will be calling DSA on Tuesday requesting a replacement or possibly a refund. I thought I lucked out with these two receivers but I guess I should have known better. ....:facepalm:.....

.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86838&stc=1&d=1514086200
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86839&stc=1&d=1514086205
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86840&stc=1&d=1514086212
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86841&stc=1&d=1514086220
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86842&stc=1&d=1514086227
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86843&stc=1&d=1514086286

.

hkshooter
December 23, 2017, 23:14
DSA strikes again. It's the Chicago Way.

Very sorry to hear of this, my friend.

G3isMe
December 23, 2017, 23:25
DSA strikes again. It's the Chicago Way.

Very sorry to hear of this, my friend.

Yeah, so where is DSA_Rep at now? I would like to hear the yarn he would spin on these, shifting the blame to the builder I'm sure.


.

Right Side Up
December 23, 2017, 23:35
I decided a few years ago when the complaints started showing up on this board that it would be far better for me to bite the bullet and pay for a vintage DSA or an Imbel and only cry once.

Sorry to see you with problems G3. Hope they send you a good one because that can't be fixed. Can't add metal back there.

G3isMe
December 23, 2017, 23:45
I decided a few years ago when the complaints started showing up on this board that it would be far better for me to bite the bullet and pay for a vintage DSA or an Imbel and only cry once.

Sorry to see you with problems G3. Hope they send you a good one because that can't be fixed. Can't add metal back there.

Thanks RSU. I thought the same thing. I have a hard time wrapping my head around how they can drill or bore out a hole consistently inaccurate. They should know exactly who worked on these rifles and fix the problem. I was really hopeful about these overuns as mine did not contain all of the other problems that have plagued the DSA cast receivers. I have some money in my pocket and am in the market for some receivers, so now I like many others are tasked with deciding upon the lesser of two evils.


.

Right Side Up
December 23, 2017, 23:53
The sad part is that it is boringly simple to machine that hole. You almost have to WANT to screw it up. Shows me that no one in the front office gives a damn about us.

hkshooter
December 24, 2017, 00:02
These can be repaired. Question is, will DSA do it or simply replace them? And if they replace them, with what? More "over run" rejects? Cast? The list is short.

Bama Steve
December 24, 2017, 00:08
Just stop buying from them but continue complaining with specific details.

Right Side Up
December 24, 2017, 00:27
These can be repaired. Question is, will DSA do it or simply replace them? And if they replace them, with what? More "over run" rejects? Cast? The list is short.

The only way is with some custom way oversize locking shoulders. Trust them to make those too? I don't. G3's receiver is scrap metal.

4x401
December 24, 2017, 00:48
Just stop buying from them but continue complaining with specific details.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I really have to wonder how many times the bretheren here need kicked in the balls before they finally get it...:?:facepalm:

G3isMe
December 24, 2017, 00:48
Just stop buying from them but continue complaining with specific details.

Well, I have decided that this will be the last one which I will buy from them unless something substantial changes. I am in the market for several more and unfortunately DSA has further illustrated their lack of quality assurance and people management.

4x401
December 24, 2017, 00:59
Trust them to make those too? I don't.

Yup.
But I'll bet some retard here will be willing to accept another out of spec part, to repair yet another out of spec receiver...It's the FAL FILES way...:facepalm:

Right Side Up
December 24, 2017, 01:04
It's always an eye opener when a guy realizes just how expensive his budget parts ended up being. See it all the time in racing too.

slavicshooter
December 24, 2017, 01:19
Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I really have to wonder how many times the bretheren here need kicked in the balls before they finally get it...:?:facepalm:

Numerous...
~ss
https://youtu.be/fjd63o0sbio

4x401
December 24, 2017, 01:29
Numerous...
~ss
https://youtu.be/fjd63o0sbio

Retarded.

You ever put a FAL together, or just come here to post stupid shit??:?

hkshooter
December 24, 2017, 09:34
Yup.
But I'll bet some retard here will be willing to accept another out of spec part, to repair yet another out of spec receiver...It's the FAL FILES way...:facepalm:

It's always an eye opener when a guy realizes just how expensive his budget parts ended up being. See it all the time in racing too.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I really have to wonder how many times the bretheren here need kicked in the balls before they finally get it...:?:facepalm:

What are our receiver supply alternatives? Do tell.

If the tiny percent of the firearms buying population that is the Files ceases to buy receivers from the only maker left doing so, do you really thing that maker will think "Oh, my! We better step up our game, people aren't buying our shit anymore!"?
My guess is the sales aren't big enough to impact their bottom line, so they don't care. Or they will simply cease to sell them to the public. Either way, lose, lose.

I feel everyone's frustration and understand what you are saying. Blaming it on the Files members is pure BS in my book. We are all going to have to face the fact that the FAL game is over. There is no longer ship loads of kits coming in to keep the builders and hobbiests going and the market is nearly gone. Not a lot of motivation there for DSA or Coonan to keep or begin investing more money in receivers.

On another note, let Trump repeal the barrel ban. That would fire up the builders market again. I'm not holding my breath.

hkshooter
December 24, 2017, 09:38
The only way is with some custom way oversize locking shoulders. Trust them to make those too? I don't. G3's receiver is scrap metal.

If the LS drifts in from the right and the oversize hole is on the left, tell me how a custom LS is going to go in?
The LS's fit, relatively, on the right. Three or four more thou isn't going to make it through. I'd figure someone with your proposed back ground would know this.
These can be repaired, one just needs the skills and tools.

gunplumber
December 24, 2017, 09:39
The locking shoulder hole, and the hinge hole, are the start location or "zero" for all the other dimensions. At least on factory prints.

And no, there is no repair. Receiver needs to be scrapped. What are they going to do? Bore it out and solder a sleeve in the hole - doing a nice job of annealing one of the few spots needing specific heat treatment? Hinge hole, sure. Locking shoulder hole? Not on your life (literally).

And even if they could somehow (theoretically) plug and re-bore this hole correctly, the end product will be of diminished value and the customer will still not have been made whole.

I think it is important to track serial numbers, otherwise I have no doubt these same defective receivers will be "suddenly discovered" some time from now, and resold to someone else.

kev
December 24, 2017, 10:23
I think it is important to track serial numbers, otherwise I have no doubt these same defective receivers will be "suddenly discovered" some time from now, and resold to someone else.

Oh, you know it. It's almost like you've seen this game played before.

Maybe too early to start making lemonade but I'm already thinking of uses for these 'scrap' receivers. If the only problem is the locking shoulder hole it's not too difficult to come up with some ideas. .22LR, 9mm, .45ACP, even 5.56 or 7.62x39 I'd not have a problem with. Build a dedicated gun for blanks or that neat DAG plastic stuff if you have enough to make it worthwhile. In fact, most of those would even allow you to work around an out of spec magwell or whatever other fatal flaws these things have. Doesn't really help guys who are stuck wanting(and having paid for)a function .308 receiver tho.

As 'scrap' receivers I'd be interested in a dozen of them at $100 apiece. I'll throw them in the box with the ORF's, the WAC's and the Century's or use them to hold together and 'display' all my excess kits.

G3isMe
December 24, 2017, 10:29
It's always an eye opener when a guy realizes just how expensive his budget parts ended up being. See it all the time in racing too.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

I really have to wonder how many times the bretheren here need kicked in the balls before they finally get it...:?:facepalm:



.
Personally I went into these with both eyes wide open. However I do feel bad for the customer who is sending his builds on to a gunsmith,e.g., gun plumber, and who doesn't want, or perhaps does not have the ability, to do the build work himself. These issues will cost those folks a lot of extra money and DSA does not seem to give that any consideration when they continue to send out problematic receivers. For me, my time is all that I will lose on this deal as I build these as a hobby and enjoy it as a stress reliever. LOL, although sometimes there is not a lot of stress being relieved......:biggrin:.....

Admittedly, I was hopeful that they had worked out the issues with these cast receivers. I also believed what DSA was telling us, i.e., they were actual overruns and not rejects, and then I went a leap further and "assumed" that since these were actually ordered by a Government agency DSA would really apply some QA/QC and these receivers would not be riddled with problems. Unfortunately it appears that I was wrong and it is the same old sad story. For what it is worth, as I am only one customer, this will be my last purchase of a new DSA receiver and I will be telling them that when I speak with them next week. ...:sad:....:sad:




.

.

hkshooter
December 24, 2017, 10:40
.
....and then I went a leap further and "assumed" that since these were actually ordered by a Government agency DSA would really apply some QA/QC and these receivers would not be riddled with problems.





They probably did apply some QC, that's how they ended up in the reject bin to be distributed to the masses as "contract over runs".

I fully encourage each and every one of these rejects be returned to DSA for a full refund. Any one who doesn't bother and wants to be rid of them I'd be interested, as the post above, for a few at $100. :wink:

gunplumber
December 24, 2017, 10:51
Oh, you know it. It's almost like you've seen this game played before.

I'm still working on my documentation. But yeah.

I use defective CAI receivers for cutaways. But I don't have enough other bad parts to handle all the defective receivers that are available. So I don't need more. Nor do I think it is smart to have receivers floating around, where a locking shoulder could fall out during firing. The liability exposure seems pretty high to me. I know the Williams Aluma-bombs have been re-purposed to pistol caliber conversions, but he's out of business.

DSA has knowingly sold defective receivers, long after being put on notice as to the defects. But these were functional issues - they have not been dangerous. It's hard to get a gun to blow up if a magazine won't even fit.

This, on the other hand, is a dangerous defect. With the only thing holding the locking shoulder in place, being the dog leg, there is a real possibility of someone being fooled into thinking it is secure. If it falls out during firing, it could result in a catastrophic OoB KB.

If it were me, I'd chop the receivers. But then, the integrity of my name means something to me, so I'd never have sold them in the first place.

slavicshooter
December 24, 2017, 12:25
[QUOTE=4x401;4517469]Retarded.

You ever put a FAL together, or just come here to post stupid shit??:?[/QUOTE

No, however, along with my "stupid shit", which others who don't have a chip on their shoulder find amusing, I can wax most eloquently on a variety of topics. My life doesn't revolve around an out of spec DSA "Mexican contract overrun" receiver. Evidently you're wound a little tight around the Feast of the Nativity of our Lord, and God , and Savior, Jesus Christ in the flesh. I will go back to enjoying my lovely wife, children, grandchildren, and extended family. Perhaps, you will find someone to share your miserable opinion of me with and make youself feel especially important. I hope so. There is no further need for comment. You asked a question, and I answered it. Now go find someone to kick you in the nuts as a reminder of problematic DSA builds.~ss (AKA: stupid shit) LOL I know you smiled.:biggrin:

thedrickel
December 24, 2017, 13:07
Oh, you know it. It's almost like you've seen this game played before.

Maybe too early to start making lemonade but I'm already thinking of uses for these 'scrap' receivers. If the only problem is the locking shoulder hole it's not too difficult to come up with some ideas. .22LR, 9mm, .45ACP, even 5.56 or 7.62x39 I'd not have a problem with. Build a dedicated gun for blanks or that neat DAG plastic stuff if you have enough to make it worthwhile. In fact, most of those would even allow you to work around an out of spec magwell or whatever other fatal flaws these things have. Doesn't really help guys who are stuck wanting(and having paid for)a function .308 receiver tho.

As 'scrap' receivers I'd be interested in a dozen of them at $100 apiece. I'll throw them in the box with the ORF's, the WAC's and the Century's or use them to hold together and 'display' all my excess kits.

Exactly what I was thinking. I need one for a .22 build. Anybody want to unload theirs?

brad8e
December 24, 2017, 13:38
I'm building off of one of these receivers, before I throw a barrel on it is there any way I can check if the locking shoulder hole on the left side of the receiver is in spec without using a locking shoulder. All I have is the pin guages at this time. I really don't want to bother barreling it if it's out of spec.

Right Side Up
December 24, 2017, 14:07
If the LS drifts in from the right and the oversize hole is on the left, tell me how a custom LS is going to go in?
The LS's fit, relatively, on the right. Three or four more thou isn't going to make it through. I'd figure someone with your proposed back ground would know this.
These can be repaired, one just needs the skills and tools.

It goes without saying that the hole would have to be trued up first, then measured, then a custom locking shoulder made.

308/223shooter
December 24, 2017, 14:12
I'm building off of one of these receivers, before I throw a barrel on it is there any way I can check if the locking shoulder hole on the left side of the receiver is in spec without using a locking shoulder. All I have is the pin guages at this time. I really don't want to bother barreling it if it's out of spec.

In my experience this year, with a half dozen defective DSA's, I'd say use a caliper if you have one. You can compare the difference between the holes, they should be the same inner dimension on both sides.
Forgot to add, see if a NOS dust cover will slide fully into place without binding midway, then check to see if your bolt carrier will slide fully closed without binding, then see if the receiver will fully lock closed to your trigger housing without any issues. I think I covered most issues, your experience may differ from all of mine.

hkshooter
December 24, 2017, 14:14
It goes without saying that the hole would have to be trued up first, then measured, then a custom locking shoulder made.

I wonder how far out of spec the hole is and how far over sized the LS can be and be safe?

1911Ron
December 24, 2017, 14:24
It goes without saying that the hole would have to be trued up first, then measured, then a custom locking shoulder made.

Or you can accept it as a defective piece of crap and be done with it, why throw more money at a out of spec receiver? Oh wait you could get one of your $25.00 reamer and hack away!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

pl521
December 24, 2017, 14:29
FWIW. Reading this thread had me very concerned about the two overrun type 1, NCH, DSA Mexican receivers, DSA32173 and DSA32178, I recently purchased. I performed the following test to see if the receivers are defective.

Timing - timed early, 10 o'clock. Works perfect with overtimed barrels I have
Threads - passed
Mag fit - locked a little tight with moses, surplus mags and converted L1A1 mags
Rails - passed
Lockup with lower - tested with STG, IMBEL, and DSA lower; passed
Locking shoulder dogleg - passed
Locking shoulder through left side of receiver - passed. I tried six different locking shoulders and all six only entered the hole about 1/8 of an inch in both receivers

Luck of the draw. With all the problems everybody else is having, I consider myself very lucky.

308/223shooter
December 24, 2017, 14:33
I wonder how far out of spec the hole is and how far over sized the LS can be and be safe?

If the hole is the same diameter on both sides, and square to the centerline of the barrel axis, it shouldn't make much of a difference, as long as it doesn't interfere with the bolt and carrier, and the holes aren't too large to affect the integrity of the receiver and ejector block.
The locking shoulder needs to be properly aligned to ensure even load bearing between the bolt and locking shoulder. If the LS is off center, then the bolt will not have even load bearing, and the locking shoulder could break, or be forced to walk out of the receiver during the firing cycle. Which in turn will cause a major problem for the poor fugk that is firing his FAL.
Anyone else wonder how good Dave's lawyers are?

Right Side Up
December 24, 2017, 14:40
Or you can accept it as a defective piece of crap and be done with it, why throw more money at a out of spec receiver? Oh wait you could get one of your $25.00 reamer and hack away!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Was soeaking hypothetically. No i would not throw away my time on one of those receivers. How could you sell the gun Later on?

brad8e
December 24, 2017, 15:00
In my experience this year, with a half dozen defective DSA's, I'd say use a caliper if you have one. You can compare the difference between the holes, they should be the same inner dimension on both sides.
Forgot to add, see if a NOS dust cover will slide fully into place without binding midway, then check to see if your bolt carrier will slide fully closed without binding, then see if the receiver will fully lock closed to your trigger housing without any issues. I think I covered most issues, your experience may differ from all of mine.

All of that checks out. Only thing I can see is a tight magwell and the mag catch screw not being completely flush with the receiver. I'll find a way to address that.

I have serial 32164. Hopefully this build won't give me any further problems.

308/223shooter
December 24, 2017, 15:04
All of that checks out. Only thing I can see is a tight magwell and the mag catch screw not being completely flush with the receiver.

Then you got lucky. Hope it runs stellar when it's done.

G3isMe
December 24, 2017, 15:29
All of that checks out. Only thing I can see is a tight magwell and the mag catch screw not being completely flush with the receiver. I'll find a way to address that.

I have serial 32164. Hopefully this build won't give me any further problems.

I hope they work great for you too. But see my posts #45 and #136 in this thread....:uhoh:

You should check that left side of the locking shoulder hole.

.

brad8e
December 24, 2017, 16:03
I hope they work great for you too. But see my posts #45 and #136 in this thread....:uhoh:


.

I saw, I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst. I mean really what do you do if it's out of spec, send it back and they exchange it for another over run that may also be out of spec or they send it back "repaired". Knew I should have ponied up for the imbel instead of getting so hooked up on the dsa warranty. Live and learn. :(

tdb59
December 24, 2017, 17:03
https://i.imgur.com/FMklmCp.jpg?fb

stoicrabbit
December 24, 2017, 19:49
31973 locking shoulder hole left and right are good

Riversidesports
December 24, 2017, 19:52
Dunno'

I do tend to side with much of anything Mark states on building. If he notes something is all Fubar he isn't one who makes shit up.

Now is dsa sending out 2nds ?
Utter speculation.
Seems somehow dsa is making this junk somehow work on exports

dunno how it's being done, maybe dsa is using oversize LS
I don't have a damn clue but they need to stand up, explain this shit and offer their over size LS if that's going on.

Dog piling like sissy bitches won't fix any of these problems

I am pretty sure FAL reciever manufacturers just hate the Plumber
Mark's heart is in the right place but his people skills are well, worse than my own.
He needs to be hired up as a consultant by certain firms, shit the asshole could mostly retire :bow:

4x401
December 25, 2017, 02:26
[QUOTE=4x401;4517469]Retarded.

You ever put a FAL together, or just come here to post stupid shit??:?[/QUOTE

No, however, along with my "stupid shit", which others who don't have a chip on their shoulder find amusing, I can wax most eloquently on a variety of topics. My life doesn't revolve around an out of spec DSA "Mexican contract overrun" receiver. Evidently you're wound a little tight around the Feast of the Nativity of our Lord, and God , and Savior, Jesus Christ in the flesh. I will go back to enjoying my lovely wife, children, grandchildren, and extended family. Perhaps, you will find someone to share your miserable opinion of me with and make youself feel especially important. I hope so. There is no further need for comment. You asked a question, and I answered it. Now go find someone to kick you in the nuts as a reminder of problematic DSA builds.~ss (AKA: stupid shit) LOL I know you smiled.:biggrin:

Blah, blah, blah...:facepalm:

If you consider the drivel your contiually posting as "Waxing eloquently", your literary teacher needs that clowns attention... Stat.:D

gunplumber
December 25, 2017, 10:49
I'm building off of one of these receivers, before I throw a barrel on it is there any way I can check if the locking shoulder hole on the left side of the receiver is in spec without using a locking shoulder. All I have is the pin guages at this time. I really don't want to bother barreling it if it's out of spec.

not really. Problem is the tolerance of the hole, the tolerance of the locking shoulder, and the tolerance of the pin gauges. You're probably looking at ZZ gauges. Class ZZ has an allowed deviation of .0002″, geometry of .0001″, finish 10 micro-inch Ra. To move up to Z, your price will jump dramatically. Class Z has an allowed deviation of .0001″, geometry of .00005″, finish 8 micro-inch Ra.

Your ZZ are going to be + or -. A + will have the deviation over the size. The - will be a max of the size, deviating less than. Locking shoulder tolerance is .0009. The hole tolerance is 0.0014. But maybe a ZZ .297"+ as a NOGO, will work for a .2969" max hole. But a ZZ- could fit because the gauge is -.0002"

I do not know the difference in pressure on the interference fit between FN spec induction hardening and DSA's "whole receiver" heat treat.

But as in my example, when I have a brand new, un-issued OS 1,2 and 3 all enter the whole to almost full depth with hand pressure only, it's very bad.

hkshooter
December 25, 2017, 11:18
not really. Problem is the tolerance of the hole, the tolerance of the locking shoulder, and the tolerance of the pin gauges. You're probably looking at ZZ gauges. Class ZZ has an allowed deviation of .0002″, geometry of .0001″, finish 10 micro-inch Ra. To move up to Z, your price will jump dramatically. Class Z has an allowed deviation of .0001″, geometry of .00005″, finish 8 micro-inch Ra.

Your ZZ are going to be + or -. A + will have the deviation over the size. The - will be a max of the size, deviating less than. Locking shoulder tolerance is .0009. The hole tolerance is 0.0014. But maybe a ZZ .297"+ as a NOGO, will work for a .2969" max hole. But a ZZ- could fit because the gauge is -.0002"

I do not know the difference in pressure on the interference fit between FN spec induction hardening and DSA's "whole receiver" heat treat.

But as in my example, when I have a brand new, un-issued OS 1,2 and 3 all enter the whole to almost full depth with hand pressure only, it's very bad.

Mark, what are the increment changes between OS 1,2, and 3? And from standard to OS1?

slavicshooter
December 25, 2017, 12:07
[QUOTE=slavicshooter;4517611]

Blah, blah, blah...:facepalm:

If you consider the drivel your contiually posting as "Waxing eloquently", your literary teacher needs that clowns attention... Stat.:D

Boom in the crotch, boom in the crotch, boom in the crotch, boom in the crotch, boom in the crotch...~ss:tongue:

gunplumber
December 26, 2017, 09:33
Mark, what are the increment changes between OS 1,2, and 3? And from standard to OS1?

Appx .0008" increments. Meaning if a OS 3 drops in, the hole is around .0030" oversize.



Aussie
Standard .2978-.0008
OS-1 .2987-.0008
UK
Standard .2970-.2978
OS-1 (Y) .2998-.2990

Can't find my FAL list right now, but it's similar.

hkshooter
December 26, 2017, 09:56
Appx .0008" increments. Meaning if a OS 3 drops in, the hole is around .0030" oversize.



Aussie
Standard .2978-.0008
OS-1 .2987-.0008
UK
Standard .2970-.2978
OS-1 (Y) .2998-.2990

Can't find my FAL list right now, but it's similar.

Excellent, Mark. Thank you.

gunplumber
December 26, 2017, 13:20
There is no metric thread on any FAL other than the Izzy barrel chamber side (I suspect the Indian grip plate screw is M4 and not #8, but I'm not sure).

But sometimes when an inch dimension seems a little arbitrary, converting it to metric reveals a dimension that makes more sense. The 0.0008" increments translate to 0.02mm, which is a standard metric step for pins needing an oversize interference fit - AK for example. Also, HK rollers are in .02mm steps.

mp
December 27, 2017, 16:58
DSA 32238

Add me to the defective locking shoulder hole crowd. Inspected before transfer. Pushed LS in from opposing side with finger pressure--got a nice 7 second video showing off my awesome finger strength. Heading back as soon as DSA issues RMA. Boo.....

gunplumber
December 27, 2017, 17:14
DSA 32182

It was in for a suspected LS problem, but it turned out to be the inside of the bolt carrier where the top rear of the bolt rises. It was roughly machined. 2 different carriers worked fine with same bolt (yes, before I blame the receiver, I check multiples of the part for fit). Result was a false reading requiring sub-.250 shoulder. Now is fine with a .254" (.256 = tight close on .308 GO). Intersting because it was a matched IMBEL B&BC

75% of magazines would not fit, and those that did would only click when forced. Definite step in inside top edges of mag well - opened up with 1/2" ball endmill.

Barrel was already timed, but mag catch axle and threads were good and I'll check lockup when it comes out of the cleaning tank - was still caked in grease.

Golf3Alpha
December 28, 2017, 09:45
From personal experience:
Some ejector blocks are installed to high in a receiver which, in turn, makes the latch too high to complete magazine lockup with "some" magazines. Magazines also have manufacturing tolerances +-.
"B.O.B."
I have had receivers where the left bolt carrier rail is just a tad too wide.
During diagnosis it was noted that when the magazine was inserted with the first round to be chambered on the charging handle side of the receiver, the bolt carrier rail makes contact with the bullet case pushing it downward into the magazine. The magazine lip is no longer in contact with the case. The bolt, going forward, does not make sufficient contact to push it. For me, the remedy to this was to file-back the width of the carrier rail only about .010" until I was visually able to confirm that contact of the bullet case was only in the magazine lip and not the receiver itself. There was so little material to be removed, but it made the difference for reliable chambering in my situation.

kalashniKEV
December 28, 2017, 11:25
This is all too bad- I just picked up an "S.D.N. Mexico D.F." LE6920 and would love to have had an FAL to go with it.

I guess there is probably a reason DSA doesn't just build these into "el Viajero" models and sell them with a cool story like Colt did.

(DSA- I might still be down if you do this.)

Normally I'd be down for same config too, but I am a big time hater of short-gas FALs. A 16" or 18" normal Para with the Mexico marks would sell great if it runs, I think...

G3isMe
December 29, 2017, 06:33
These receivers all have LS issues and are within ~40 units of one another.. I am very interested to learn if any others fall within or near this range.

32238 mp

32243 gunplumber

32202 G3isMe

.

base704
December 29, 2017, 09:17
These receivers all have LS issues and are within ~40 units of one another.. I am very interested to learn if any others fall within or near this range.

32238 mp

32243 gunplumber

32202 G3isMe

.

I have one in my possession that falls in that range...will hopefully get to measure LS hole in the morning.

pl521
December 29, 2017, 09:30
These receivers all have LS issues and are within ~40 units of one another.. I am very interested to learn if any others fall within or near this range.

32238 mp

32243 gunplumber

32202 G3isMe

.

I have the following two receivers but do not have LS issues, however, both receivers undertimed to about 10 o'clock

32173 pl521
32178 pl521

lew
December 29, 2017, 11:53
I have the following two receivers but do not have LS issues, however, both receivers undertimed to about 10 o'clock

32173 pl521
32178 pl521

Undertimed by bottoming out on the front of the receiver rails or by the barrel shoulder meeting the front of the receiver. The latter is obviously preferable.

pl521
December 29, 2017, 12:09
Undertimed by bottoming out on the front of the receiver rails or by the barrel shoulder meeting the front of the receiver. The latter is obviously preferable.

Barrel shoulder meeting front of receiver early.

DSA_REP
December 29, 2017, 16:37
Hello Fal Files Members

It has been brought to our attention that there are some concerns over the Locking shoulder hole DIMENSION we would like to share this information with you. Attached is the FN blueprint for this area, our Steyr print is the same.

The dimension for the Locking Shoulder hole in Inches is .2961 +/- .0006 So the blueprint range is .2955 to .2967 Max. We will then finish ream this hole to .2960 This dimension was selected due to movement or shrinkage during heat treatment. We use a precision ground reamer of .2960 due to this. This reamer costs $72 not $300.00.

http://gdurl.com/XQft
http://gdurl.com/4QqP


We are an ISO 9001:2015 certified company who just passed our recertification again this year. We use certified inspection grade precision steel pin gauges to measure these holes.

Locking shoulders are designed to be a press fit. This is why you use the proper tools, punches or press to install them. On a precision machined rifle such as a FAL, it would be foolish to think that every part, made by every manufacturer and made over a period of over 60 years will all fit together perfectly. If you are using inch pattern shoulders new or used, or shoulders made from any other subcontractor from even a Formerly licensed facility expect a varied tolerance range.

We have manufactured this part for many years and supplied 10s of thousands of these parts as stripped receivers and to build complete rifles. We have supplied not only the US market with the best FAL/L1A1 receivers and rifles but also we have sold our complete rifles to military and police agencies around the world including the US DOD. DSA is the world authority on FAL RECIEVERS and rifles known for the best quality FAL parts and complete rifles.
We have successfully rebuilt and modernized FN rifles as old as 1950’s for foreign governments right up to the last production Argentine rifles.

We have manufactured, purchased, handled and seen over 100,000 FAL rifles including the 55,000 Austrian STG58’s we purchased and had imported into the US. If we did not save these from destruction, there wouldn’t be 1 STG58 part or rifle imported in the US. So it’s safe to say we have handled and actually manufactured more FAL rifles than anyone in the US or most Countries, besides an actual licensed or unlicensed manufacturer.

We caution if anyone is placing sandpaper on a drill or makes the hole oversized themselves, you may void your warranty. We don’t expect an average person to have the proper pin gauges in their pocket, that’s why we are here. We completely stand behind everything we make as we always have. Currently there is no one on this site that is authorized by us (the manufacturer) to work on our products. If anyone is having an issue with anything including barreling and head spacing, we perform these tasks on a daily basis for a nominal fee. We do it the correct way with proper fixtures, gauges and tools. In case some on here are new and are not aware, in the 1990’s we purchased all of the tooling and blueprints Steyr used to make the FAL rifle. We have utilized much of this tooling in production as well as made new modern tooling.

Should anyone on this forum have any issue or concern about a receiver that they have purchased from us all they need do is reach out to our customer service department at 847-277-7258 for us make arrangements for the receiver to come back for an inspection and based on that inspection the correct course of action.

hkshooter
December 29, 2017, 16:58
Should anyone on this forum have any issue or concern about a receiver that they have purchased from us all they need do is reach out to our customer service department at 847-277-7258 for us make arrangements for the receiver to come back for an inspection and based on that inspection the correct course of action.

Blah, blah, blah......
The last paragraph is the only substance to this long winded waste of electrons.
"Sorry, customers! We rock, you blow, so suck it!"

I have pin gauges but fortunately for me, I don't have a mezican stamped DSA to test.

G3isMe
December 29, 2017, 17:08
...

Locking shoulders are designed to be a press fit. This is why you use the proper tools, punches or press to install them. On a precision machined rifle such as a FAL, it would be foolish to think that every part, made by every manufacturer and made over a period of over 60 years will all fit together perfectly...


.
Jesus Christ this is the whole f****** point of this thread at this stage. This is why we are concerned when you can shove a locking shoulder into one of your receivers with your thumb.....Did you even read these posts? Give me a freaking break.

edited for: I am perplexed that DSA has authorized you to be their representative on this forum. Their reputation was tarnished with a lot of builders here and for good reason. No offense DSA_REP, but you don't seem to be well suited for a role in damage control nor improving customer relations. Something doesn't seem right here and I am guessing loose cannon. For what it is worth, and while I realize that I am only one customer, your post today solidified my earlier thoughts and has cost DSA a loss of ~ $2,800 in sales of FAL receivers today and probably a similar amount next week. I was waffling back and forth between DSA and Coonan and I must say your post #191 made the decision quite easy. I will be sure to share this with DSA management when I call to request a return and refund for receiver DSA32022. There is a cost for rudeness and ineptitude. Thank you Sir.




.

meltblown
December 29, 2017, 17:30
Running on the high side of the tolerance for the LS dimension is .2969. That's cutting it close. I'm measuring NOS LS diameter shafts with OD mics and getting pretty damn close to that max diameter

I have 8 DSA receiver builds. Nothing but DS prefixes. These guys here have built far more than me. Something is wrong.

OLDMANPBK
December 29, 2017, 17:49
It has been brought to our attention that there are some concerns over the Locking shoulder hole DIMENSION

They finally came did they?

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86880&stc=1&d=1514587554

308/223shooter
December 29, 2017, 17:54
"Locking shoulders are designed to be a press fit. This is why you use the proper tools, punches or press to install them. On a precision machined rifle such as a FAL, it would be foolish to think that every part, made by every manufacturer and made over a period of over 60 years will all fit together perfectly. If you are using inch pattern shoulders new or used, or shoulders made from any other subcontractor from even a Formerly licensed facility expect a varied tolerance range. "

And yet, I can take parts from any number of countries who manufactured the FAL, and swap them about to build a Franken FAL that'll go together and run right off the bat, so long as I use a receiver that is actually in spec. I know, I've done it so many times I've lost count. The biggest reason I've stopped buying kits is, there isn't one single U.S. manufacturer today, that makes a 100% truly in spec. receiver that can be built on without some issue.
I can spend near six bills on a Imbel, and have my build slinging lead in less than a couple hours. Not been my experience with DSA or Coonan for the past couple years.
Nice slick advert in your above reply though.

K.O.A.M.
December 29, 2017, 19:11
Not to be that guy, but if anyone has one that's not dangerously out of spec and wants to make $100 on top of what they paid from DSA, hit me up.

Oh, and on issues of builds, I side with Gunplumber 100 times out of 100. He's built a ton of stuff for me and it all works well.

gunplumber
December 29, 2017, 19:25
We still don't know which of the different people using the DSA_REP account has posted (is that any different than one person having multiple accounts, in violation of Falfiles rules?). Why are they so afraid of putting their name on it? Maybe it's Chicago thing. All bluster.

And yes, sweetie, I have those prints too. Did you think I pulled the numbers out of my ass?

So with all your fancy equipment and resources, why do you still dump your defective shit on the US civilian market? Oh yeah, 'it's The Chicago Way.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-print-receiver-fn-locking-shoulder-hole.jpg

We completely stand behind everything we make as we always have.

Yet I have at least three guns in the shop right now, that have already been back to DSA for warranty work (one of them twice), and still have the same major defects that they had when you first sold them.

4x401
December 30, 2017, 02:34
Hello Fal Files Members

It has been brought to our attention that there are some concerns over the Locking shoulder hole DIMENSION we would like to share this information with you. Attached is the FN blueprint for this area, our Steyr print is the same.

The dimension for the Locking Shoulder hole in Inches is .2961 +/- .0006 So the blueprint range is .2955 to .2967 Max. We will then finish ream this hole to .2960 This dimension was selected due to movement or shrinkage during heat treatment. We use a precision ground reamer of .2960 due to this. This reamer costs $72 not $300.00.

http://gdurl.com/XQft
http://gdurl.com/4QqP


We are an ISO 9001:2015 certified company who just passed our recertification again this year. We use certified inspection grade precision steel pin gauges to measure these holes.

Locking shoulders are designed to be a press fit. This is why you use the proper tools, punches or press to install them. On a precision machined rifle such as a FAL, it would be foolish to think that every part, made by every manufacturer and made over a period of over 60 years will all fit together perfectly. If you are using inch pattern shoulders new or used, or shoulders made from any other subcontractor from even a Formerly licensed facility expect a varied tolerance range.

We have manufactured this part for many years and supplied 10s of thousands of these parts as stripped receivers and to build complete rifles. We have supplied not only the US market with the best FAL/L1A1 receivers and rifles but also we have sold our complete rifles to military and police agencies around the world including the US DOD. DSA is the world authority on FAL RECIEVERS and rifles known for the best quality FAL parts and complete rifles.
We have successfully rebuilt and modernized FN rifles as old as 1950ís for foreign governments right up to the last production Argentine rifles.

We have manufactured, purchased, handled and seen over 100,000 FAL rifles including the 55,000 Austrian STG58ís we purchased and had imported into the US. If we did not save these from destruction, there wouldnít be 1 STG58 part or rifle imported in the US. So itís safe to say we have handled and actually manufactured more FAL rifles than anyone in the US or most Countries, besides an actual licensed or unlicensed manufacturer.

We caution if anyone is placing sandpaper on a drill or makes the hole oversized themselves, you may void your warranty. We donít expect an average person to have the proper pin gauges in their pocket, thatís why we are here. We completely stand behind everything we make as we always have. Currently there is no one on this site that is authorized by us (the manufacturer) to work on our products. If anyone is having an issue with anything including barreling and head spacing, we perform these tasks on a daily basis for a nominal fee. We do it the correct way with proper fixtures, gauges and tools. In case some on here are new and are not aware, in the 1990ís we purchased all of the tooling and blueprints Steyr used to make the FAL rifle. We have utilized much of this tooling in production as well as made new modern tooling.

Should anyone on this forum have any issue or concern about a receiver that they have purchased from us all they need do is reach out to our customer service department at 847-277-7258 for us make arrangements for the receiver to come back for an inspection and based on that inspection the correct course of action.

This post will provide all the fertilizer my garden needs in the coming year, thank you. :facepalm:

tac556-1
December 30, 2017, 03:49
Christ this makes me so happy that I have a couple of hopefully LMT made type 1's and type 2's, in the spares bin, plus a couple Imbels as well. At least they are for certain forged and not cast.... the DS prefix seems to be usually believed to be LMT made at least, but sounds like there is some question...my only concern is if they take a smaller than normal LS, which happened when DSA started doing them in house, but I think I built one already and all was A-OK. So thinking they are the last of the LMT's....DS37xxx serial numbers are my highest ones. Dont think I have ever had DSA prefix...

Must resist all temptation to sell them at good profit, since they are not replaceable....

Hell of a way to run a company. Should have just let LMT do the receivers. Initially I thought about buying a couple of the Mexican receivers, but figured I was already set...now I am happy to have dodged that bullet as I am no machinist.

That being said- I had to have Def-tec/ Safariland yell at LMT after they assembled a batch of (cast alum.) 40mm receivers and they used some hand trimmed down screws in an area so that half the time it interfered with the hammer, which caused light primer strikes. So LMT isnt perfect either....but their FAL receivers never seemed to be problematic....

Sad to see all the current US manufactured receivers slowly converging together towards a lower quality spec. The difference between a Century and DSA, or Century and Coonan, has never been smaller apparently. The fact that older LMT's go for high dollar shows there is still some demand for trouble free receivers, and some people at least will pay extra for quality.

raubvogel
December 30, 2017, 06:14
DSA_REP, in this post I will not take sides. Instead I will pretend this is a demonstration of a geometry theorem like I used to have to do in high school. So,

Hypothesis:

1. Hole in receiver is <= 0.2967" in diameter per FN specs.
The dimension for the Locking Shoulder hole in Inches is .2961 +/- .0006 So the blueprint range is .2955 to .2967 Max. We will then finish ream this hole to .2960 This dimension was selected due to movement or shrinkage during heat treatment. We use a precision ground reamer of .2960 due to this. This reamer costs $72 not $300.00.


2. Locking shoulders' diameter is >= 0.2970" in diameter
Aussie
Standard .2978-.0008
OS-1 .2987-.0008
UK
Standard .2970-.2978
OS-1 (Y) .2998-.2990


Thesis: If the DSA receiver locking shoulder hole is built to FN specs, placing the locking shoulder in the receiver hole is an interference fit no matter the size of the locking shoulder.

Demonstration:
The following receivers:


32238 mp
32243 gunplumber
32202 G3isMe


have locking shoulder holes whose diameter are at least >= 0.2970" in diameter (gunplumber reported his to be >= .2995"). Therefore the thesis demonstration failed.

Do you agree with these conclusions? I am not asking for an explanation or speculation from either side; we are just sticking to the theorem here.

I have a set of sizing pins but unfortunately the largest one is 0.2500" +-0.0002. Otherwise I would lend it out so we could find the exact size.

4markk
December 30, 2017, 09:30
We are an ISO 9001:2015 certified company who just passed our recertification again this year. We use certified inspection grade precision steel pin gauges to measure these holes.

This is very commendable, but no process is perfect. Here you have the advantage (or disadvantage, depending on how you look at it) of an enthusiast community looking over your shoulder.

There will always be elitist huff, i.e. "why aren't you using diamond, it's harder but only charge $0.50 more??" It is easy to filter through that noise, most times it it best to ignore.

BUT then there are legitimate quality control issues. Pointing out either human error or machine errors that are best caught early and corrected. Here is a major advantage of a decent sized community using their collective intelligence and dedicating their time (for FREE) to help you develop a better product. That is priceless. Often acknowledgement is all that is required.



The dimension for the Locking Shoulder hole in Inches is .2961 +/- .0006 So the blueprint range is .2955 to .2967 Max. We will then finish ream this hole to .2960 This dimension was selected due to movement or shrinkage during heat treatment. We use a precision ground reamer of .2960 due to this.

[]

Locking shoulders are designed to be a press fit.


Appx .0008" increments. Meaning if a OS 3 drops in, the hole is around .0030" oversize.


As raubvogel summarized, mathematically there is an issue. As Mark and other posted, that issue is a significant operational issue. Remember, defective parts are not immune.

For when a part is >= .0030" oversized when the blueprints you posted state a tolerance of +/- .0006, that is a significant issue. It seems it would be better to investigate, identify and contain before the issue gets worse.

pl521
December 30, 2017, 10:15
We are an ISO 9001:2015 certified company who just passed our recertification again this year. We use certified inspection grade precision steel pin gauges to measure these holes.

DSA REP - ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9001 helps organizations ensure their customers consistently receive high quality products and services, which in turn brings many benefits, including satisfied customers. It also provides organizations processes to measure, analyze, and improve QMS through activities like quality control, internal audits, corrective and preventive action.

DS Arms has an opportunity to prove it is an ISO 9001:2015 certified company by addressing issues with it's FAL receivers and to put in place necessary quality contols, internal audits, corrective and preventive action to ensure it's products and services meet customer expectations.

Recommend taking the time and measure locking shoulder hole on remaining Mexican marked overrun receiver and report back your findings. There are enough unsatisfied customers with issues and complaint on this thread to raise a red flag.

Recommend seizing sale of overrun Mexican marked receivers to stop the bleeding and taking the time to measure locking shoulder hole on all remaining receivers. We'd be interested in your findings.

The ball is in your court. How you handle current situation may very well affect your future ISO 9001:2015 certification for better or for worst.

gunplumber
December 30, 2017, 12:20
Am I reading this correctly - that one can self-certify for ISO 9001:2015?

----

Certification to ISO 9001:2015

Checking that the system works is a vital part of ISO 9001:2015. It is recommended that an organization performs internal audits to check how its quality management system is working. An organization may decide to invite an independent certification body to verify that it is in conformity to the standard, but there is no requirement for this. Alternatively, it might invite its clients to audit the quality system for themselves. (iso.org)

embatp
December 30, 2017, 14:22
Ok....here is my question....and this is a combination of the Dsa and Coonan threads....

Mark has shown that both receiver companies have receivers with issues....that is a fact not in doubt....

Itís appears that even tho there are issues, it seems that 90%(?) can be made to run with maybe 10% (?) unsafe and unable to be made to function....this also appears to not be in doubt....

Iím pretty sure that Mark is not the only one getting these receivers so the question is:

Where is tbd59/dr.shock/sledgehammer/Glenn riddle in all of this? Are the other smiths running into the same issues and what are they doing about it?

Not trying to stir the pot but just curious that we arenít hearing from anyone else on this...

hkshooter
December 30, 2017, 14:44
Ok....here is my question....and this is a combination of the Dsa and Coonan threads....

Mark has shown that both receiver companies have receivers with issues....that is a fact not in doubt....

It’s appears that even tho there are issues, it seems that 90%(?) can be made to run with maybe 10% (?) unsafe and unable to be made to function....this also appears to not be in doubt....

I’m pretty sure that Mark is not the only one getting these receivers so the question is:

Where is tbd59/dr.shock/sledgehammer/Glenn riddle in all of this? Are the other smiths running into the same issues and what are they doing about it?

Not trying to stir the pot but just curious that we aren’t hearing from anyone else on this...

Good question.
Glenn still builds guns? Haven't heard that name in a while.
Randy is having health problems and is out of action last I heard.
Matt is so far behind he probably won't touch a current made receiver for at least another year.
tbd59, haven't seen him weigh in on any of this yet but he's probably smart enough to screen his customers receivers so he doesn't have to deal with it.

tdb59
December 30, 2017, 14:50
Good question.
Glenn still builds guns? Haven't heard that name in a while.
Randy is having health problems and is out of action last I heard.
Matt is so far behind he probably won't touch a current made receiver for at least another year.
tbd59, haven't seen him weigh in on any of this yet but he's probably smart enough to screen his customers receivers so he doesn't have to deal with it.

You are very kind, Sir.

I ceased taking on new work for a while, so have not been privy to much of this.

That said, I recently saw a Coonan custom serial that took 7 months for delivery.

All looks good.......

.....except for a LS hole that measures .289........

embatp
December 30, 2017, 14:52
You are very kind, Sir.

I ceased taking on new work for a while, so have not been privy to much of this.

That said, I recently saw a Coonan custom serial that took 7 months for delivery.

All looks good.......

.....except for a LS hole that measures .289........

And the solution is? Are you sending receivers back to the manufacturer and how has that process been going?

hkshooter
December 30, 2017, 14:57
And the solution is? Are you sending receivers back to the manufacturer and how has that process been going?

A hole too small is much easier to fix than a hole that two big. Ream to size.

tdb59
December 30, 2017, 15:03
And the solution is? Are you sending receivers back to the manufacturer and how has that process been going?

A hole too small is much easier to fix than a hole that two big. Ream to size.

Not my build, just a potential customer asking for a solution when it was discovered.

We will probably use an 'M' carbide reamer, then abrasive finish to final dimension.

The owner would rather not wait for Coonan to create a solution for what they missed the first time.

............

embatp
December 30, 2017, 15:18
So In other words you are going to make it work....

1911Ron
December 30, 2017, 17:42
Are both sides of the locking shoulder the same size (shank)?

msnyder
December 31, 2017, 12:29
I picked up two of these receivers yesterday. Locking shoulder cannot be pressed into either side of receiver using thumb pressure only.

brad8e
December 31, 2017, 15:16
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/330153/20171231_142154-407139.JPG

Coming up to the finish line. Waiting on the locking shoulder. So far this thing went together without any problems. Fingers cross the. 259 LS doesn't give me any problems.

Hope I didn't blow my load of excitement too soon on this build.

G3isMe
December 31, 2017, 15:27
I picked up two of these receivers yesterday. Locking shoulder cannot be pressed into either side of receiver using thumb pressure only.


Coming up to the finish line. Waiting on the locking shoulder. So far this thing went together without any problems. Fingers cross the. 259 LS doesn't give me any problems.

Hope I didn't blow my load of excitement too soon on this build.


.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.

brad8e
December 31, 2017, 15:31
.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.

32163

Barrel torqued to about 130 maybe a hair more using Imbel barrel assembly from GP. Imbel lower locks up tight. Mag catch screw isn't completely flush with the receiver. Waiting on the tap to come in the mail. Magazine well is pretty tight on 2 out of the 4 magazines I own. HK cover fits snug but no rubbing from bolt.

I personally would not buy another over run receiver even if my LS goes in problem free. Seems like it's a gamble.

msnyder
December 31, 2017, 16:18
.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.

322xx and 322xx

G3isMe
December 31, 2017, 16:41
Thanks guys. :bow:

308/223shooter
December 31, 2017, 20:47
.
Do you guys mind sharing your serial numbers?
Thanks either way.



.

DSA-31962

Capt D
January 13, 2018, 03:08
I'm about to embark on my first experience with one of these DSA 'over-run' receivers. Will be building an Imbel kit on one during Christmas week for a fellow member; will do my best to take photos and document the build. At first glance, the barrel and receiver threads seem to be a bit tight, and I didn't want to force things (I was leaving for work when I briefly handled the kit and receiver). I'm guessing it's excess phosphating in on the receiver threads, but I'll know for sure once I have a couple hours to fine-tooth-comb things...more to come. -Art

Okay, so here's a pre-build report. Turns out the receiver's barrel threads were just gunked up by phosphate build-up, which I was able to overcome by very gingerly wrenching it on while in the barrel and receiver vices (I don't have the tap to chase the threads). All other parameters were pretty well spot-on. The LS hole and dogleg appear to be in-spec; two different, un-bubba'd LS's fit (or, rather, DIDN'T fit) identically to how they did in every Imbel receiver I've built up. No issues there. The charging handle, bolt & carrier, top cover, EB group, hinge/joint pin, and lower (with standard OEM lug) all fit like a glove. A fully functioning Steyr proofed StG magazine locked in place with no real resistance, and the feed lips appear to flush-up with the receiver rails, so I would surmise it will feed like a champ. I did have to chase the gas tube nut threads, but that was also phosphate build-up...didn't take much effort. The kit being used is one Mark's Imbel kits (belongs to a fellow member who shall remain nameless until he chooses not to), who asked me to assemble into a fully functional riFAL. Lastly, the Imbel barrel did hand-time to about 9:45, so I do have to shave 0.007" from the shoulder (hence my MP request to borrow a Wadman), but fortunately will not bottom out on the breech face once that is done...have had that same issue with an Imbel barrel on an Imbel GL receiver, still unable to figure that one out. Anywho, will report further once I can reduce the shoulder and index the barrel...

hkshooter
January 13, 2018, 08:15
Okay, so here's a pre-build report. Turns out the receiver's barrel threads were just gunked up by phosphate build-up, which I was able to overcome by very gingerly wrenching it on while in the barrel and receiver vices (I don't have the tap to chase the threads). All other parameters were pretty well spot-on. The LS hole and dogleg appear to be in-spec; two different, un-bubba'd LS's fit (or, rather, DIDN'T fit) identically to how they did in every Imbel receiver I've built up. No issues there. The charging handle, bolt & carrier, top cover, EB group, hinge/joint pin, and lower (with standard OEM lug) all fit like a glove. A fully functioning Steyr proofed StG magazine locked in place with no real resistance, and the feed lips appear to flush-up with the receiver rails, so I would surmise it will feed like a champ. I did have to chase the gas tube nut threads, but that was also phosphate build-up...didn't take much effort. The kit being used is one Mark's Imbel kits (belongs to a fellow member who shall remain nameless until he chooses not to), who asked me to assemble into a fully functional riFAL. Lastly, the Imbel barrel did hand-time to about 9:45, so I do have to shave 0.007" from the shoulder (hence my MP request to borrow a Wadman), but fortunately will not bottom out on the breech face once that is done...have had that same issue with an Imbel barrel on an Imbel GL receiver, still unable to figure that one out. Anywho, will report further once I can reduce the shoulder and index the barrel...

9:45? Are you saying the barrel is more than two complete revolutions backed out? Or that the big hand on the clock is pointing at the 9? Which would be 11:45, not 9:45. And in that case, at .062/360 deg=.00017. You need about 30 deg so .00017 X 30=.005.
But if you are backed out two hours that's .124 plus the .005.
I think we are looking at the clock differently.

I would advise, if you have another barrel or two that are unmodified and are not IMBEL, hand time them to see where they land. If they hand time perfectly then the issue is your barrel. However, if they hand time the same as your IMBEL barrel then the issue is the receiver. People don't seem to like it when I say it but I'd modify the receiver face in this case.

Capt D
January 13, 2018, 11:47
https://photos.app.goo.gl/umyYVPxLLbD6If6P2

I guess what I meant was it hand-times to where the hour-hand on the clock is pointing when it's 9:45. It also hand tightens to just about the same spot on an unused Imbel GL receiver. I have no other FAL barrels on-hand to try, though. I, too, would prefer to modify the receiver face, rather than the barrel, but I don't have access to the tooling required...

kalashniKEV
January 13, 2018, 22:04
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/330153/20171231_142154-407139.JPG



That is awesome!

I wish somebody with kits just bought up a whole bunch of these and built them for sale.

kalashniKEV
January 13, 2018, 22:14
Am I reading this correctly - that one can self-certify for ISO 9001:2015?


The ISO creates the standards, but is not a certificate authority.

The ISO accredits independent Registrars, who assess compliance and grant certificates.

fal fiend
January 13, 2018, 22:17
Thats way under thats for sure.

brad8e
January 14, 2018, 11:28
Wanted to update you guys on my contract over-run build. The .259 locking shoulder arrived from DSA. At first it seemed like that it wasn't possible for the locking shoulder to fit. It was way to snug. Froze the locking shoulder, applied a bit of lubricant and used a large vice. Took a bit or torque to start it through, slow and steady and a small cheater bar and it went in fine. Nicked the receiver a tad along the way but oh well, I got over it.

gunplumber
January 14, 2018, 11:37
Wanted to update you guys on my contract over-run build. The .259 locking shoulder arrived from DSA. At first it seemed like that it wasn't possible for the locking shoulder to fit. It was way to snug. Froze the locking shoulder, applied a bit of lubricant and used a large vice. Took a bit or torque to start it through, slow and steady and a small cheater bar and it went in fine. Nicked the receiver a tad along the way but oh well, I got over it.


(((Cringing!)))

hkshooter
January 14, 2018, 13:10
Sometimes "get a bigger hammer" isn't the best idea.

brad8e
January 14, 2018, 13:48
(((Cringing!)))

I didn't want to have to use a vise. Punch wasn't doing it. I cleaned the area up and removed some heavy parkerizing. Once it went through the first hole it went in which minimal resistance. Didn't notice the marring from the vise on the charging handle slide until the end , doesn't interfere with function. Checked headspace once more time, it passed go/no go.

Going to get out to the range next week to work out the bugs.

Just frustrating that the whole build went together very smoothly up until the damn installation of the locking shoulder.

gunplumber
January 15, 2018, 08:01
I didn't want to have to use a vise. Punch wasn't doing it. I cleaned the area up and removed some heavy parkerizing. Once it went through the first hole it went in which minimal resistance. Didn't notice the marring from the vise on the charging handle slide until the end , doesn't interfere with function. Checked headspace once more time, it passed go/no go.

Going to get out to the range next week to work out the bugs.

Just frustrating that the whole build went together very smoothly up until the damn installation of the locking shoulder.

Did it ever occur to you that if you needed to
FREEZE IT, LUBE IT, use a LARGE VISE, and a CHEATER BAR, with QUITE A BIT OF TORQUE, that something just might be wrong? And therefore maybe you should stop?

No. Apparently not. It sounds like you forced that shoulder in - lets hope it's the right size.
It's your stuff, and I have no interest other than a general one to the community. But I frequently see the results of uneducated enthusiasm. And the expense of not stopping and seeking guidance.

mp
January 15, 2018, 08:12
My update:

DSA issued an RMA and sent a prepaid UPS tag for my defective receiver. It went back about two weeks ago so their "master" gunsmith could inspect it. I have not heard anything back yet.

The receiver never transferred to me--I discovered the LS issue during an inspection at my FFL, so DSA is working with that FFL directly on the return and hopefully swap.

fal fiend
January 15, 2018, 14:31
Why on earth will they not test the basic on these reciever before selling them ? good grief/

1911Ron
January 15, 2018, 14:45
Why on earth will they not test the basic on these reciever before selling them ? good grief/

Because "It's the Chicago way!" :rolleyes:

brad8e
January 15, 2018, 20:39
Did it ever occur to you that if you needed to
FREEZE IT, LUBE IT, use a LARGE VISE, and a CHEATER BAR, with QUITE A BIT OF TORQUE, that something just might be wrong? And therefore maybe you should stop?

No. Apparently not. It sounds like you forced that shoulder in - lets hope it's the right size.
It's your stuff, and I have no interest other than a general one to the community. But I frequently see the results of uneducated enthusiasm. And the expense of not stopping and seeking guidance.

I may not have been too clear, I never said quite a bit. I should have said a little bit. The cheater bar was used to get through the left side of the receiver its only a 10 inch pipe I used it to push the locking shoulder in slowly. At no point did I go at it like an Ape. Before I used the vise I researched how others have done it on this website. I know ideally one would use a punch and mallet but it just wasn't happening.

Believe me, if I had to put a lot muscle behind it I would have stopped and sent it back to DSA or a gunsmith such as yourself.

I'm confident that a majority of the resistance initially was parkerizing, no way possible I put enough force on the vise to alter the shape of the hole or locking shoulder piece.

I'll edit my last post to mention that I'm not a professional gunsmith and don't do what I did so you don't think I'm giving out bad advice to others if that makes you feel any better Mark.

Its my face and fingers on the line.