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View Full Version : any reviews of DSA SA58 16" Fluted Tactical Barrel, Fixed Stock Rifle


bigsky
September 18, 2017, 19:27
Anyone have any first hand knowledge of this weapon please inform me. thanks

fuel fire desire
September 18, 2017, 19:51
Anyone have any first hand knowledge of this weapon please inform me. thanks

I own one, have owned it for years, and is my primary rifle.



What would you like to know?



https://i.imgur.com/dcFor3Y_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

burtman
September 18, 2017, 20:24
I have one it's proven itself very accurate

bigsky
September 19, 2017, 07:59
just wondering your thoughts, I have been thinking on getting one for quite some time but i seem to read so much negative press here about dsa its always held me back.

Never held/shot a weapon as comfortable as a full length fal, how does this fal compare ?
Ergonimics the same as a full length?

Does it function correctly all the time.?

Fit and finish?

DSA claims 8.4lbs, is this correct?

Any issues with your weapon?

Is it a smooth recoiler like a full length fal ?

All the standard industry mags fit and function ?

Accuracy ?

dsa customer service ?

thanks

fuel fire desire
September 19, 2017, 09:17
just wondering your thoughts, I have been thinking on getting one for quite some time but i seem to read so much negative press here about dsa its always held me back.

Never held/shot a weapon as comfortable as a full length fal, how does this fal compare ?

I came from AR's. I did not like the 5.56 as a cartridge, but wanted the mobility of a 16" "M4". I made a list of specific things I wanted, and what I wanted the rifle to do. The resulting list of rifles left the SA58 as the best option for the price, exceeded only by the SCAR (and another $1500).

In short....it compares to a standard FAL as the M4 compares to the M16. Shorter, lighter, more nimble.


Ergonimics the same as a full length?

yes and no. It depends on how you place your front hand. I tend to go full Chris Costa on my race gun, and you CAN NOT do that on this carbine. Your thumb will cover the gas port and will likely have a hole burned through it. That is why I have an AFG on mine, to keep my hand from falling back into old habits and rolling around the top. If I were to do it again, I'd take the weight hit and go with a full length gas system/ hand guard on a 16"

https://i.imgur.com/18yVJLM.jpg

Does it function correctly all the time.?

All of my malfunctions stemmed back to mag issues, steel case (Tula) ammo, and brass striking the scope turret. Nothing caused by the rifle itself.

Fit and finish?

Superb. It feels like the $1500 rifle it is.


DSA claims 8.4lbs, is this correct?

Yes. The naked SA58 weighed the same as my full weight 16" "M4" with Trijicon mounted.

Any issues with your weapon?

DSA mags are hit and miss. Moses mags need to be trimmed on the left feed lip. After mags were tuned to the rifle, no issues in thousands of rounds.

Is it a smooth recoiler like a full length FAL?

Yes. And after I added that ridiculous comp on the end, it honestly recoils like a naked 5.56. (I added it because I wanted to 3 gun the rifle)

All the standard industry mags fit and function ?

For me, yes. Others have had issues with DSA receivers as a whole. Moses mags must be fitted.....which was an easy process.

Accuracy ?

4" at 100 yards with ZQI. The same as my RFB with the same ammo. I have never shot premium ammo through it.

dsa customer service ?

Superb. Friendly and fast to respond.

bigsky
September 19, 2017, 14:29
fuel fire desire, thanks for the great write up, a lot of good information in it for me to mull over.
great response, thanks

random3576
September 19, 2017, 23:03
I have one, an older one that seems to have the LMT receiver. Iíve really enjoyed it, very soft recoiling and not as front heavy as my other large caliber rifles, Iím guessing due to the short gas system and shorter fluted barrel. Feels lighter than 8.4 lbs to me but tbh Iíve never weighed it. No issues with mine, only thing I could complain about is that the length of pull on the full stocked rifles feels a bit long to me but ymmv. Machining and fit and finish is great and much better than my AK (Izzy) or my M1a (polytech).

michael_g927
September 20, 2017, 08:38
You will notice general opinions in certain circles. You have to see past the opinions of purist snobs. These are usually people that are wealthy enuf to own originals like HKs and FN/FALs etc. If you dont have an originol, what you have is junk. They hawk their opinions loud and proud. I used to wonder why they are so vocal. For years i just passed it off as ego, elitism and such.
In recent years i have come to understand it is that and more. The more is $$. They love to value their assets way above reality. Anything that threatens to breath reality into the subject matter threatens their percieved value and elitism.
Example. Everyone agrees the NFA is unconstitutional and needs repealing. But when you bring it up, the first and loudest objectors are always guys that already own NFA weapons. They worry that their items will loose value over night and their elite status will be gone as well.
Moral of the story? If the general opinion is bad, yet guys that actually own these items are consistantly asserting that they are good evidenced by the fact the company sells every one they make, every year, i think id go with the owner group opinion.

jugrunner
September 21, 2017, 14:18
You will notice general opinions in certain circles. You have to see past the opinions of purist snobs. These are usually people that are wealthy enuf to own originals like HKs and FN/FALs etc. If you dont have an originol, what you have is junk. They hawk their opinions loud and proud. I used to wonder why they are so vocal. For years i just passed it off as ego, elitism and such.
In recent years i have come to understand it is that and more. The more is $$. They love to value their assets way above reality. Anything that threatens to breath reality into the subject matter threatens their percieved value and elitism.
Example. Everyone agrees the NFA is unconstitutional and needs repealing. But when you bring it up, the first and loudest objectors are always guys that already own NFA weapons. They worry that their items will loose value over night and their elite status will be gone as well.
moral of the story? If the general opinion is bad, yet guys that actually own these items are consistantly asserting that they are good evidenced by the fact the company sells every one they make, every year, i think id go with the owner group opinion.


Sounds like you just might be a little jealous .. ?? .. I don't own an "Original" FAL or a Class III weapon .. I spend my $$$ in better ways ..

I have built several FALs out of Original Mil-Spec FN/Steyr parts and I'm very happy with mine .. I actually love the older LMT (dsa) receivers .. it's all I use ..

"moral of the story?"

Take their NEW STUFF and throw it in the garbage ..

or NOT .. you roll the dice !!


ETA: If you're getting into this hobby to make $$$ .. forget about it .. :rofl:

michael_g927
September 21, 2017, 21:02
Not jealous at all. I have no problems identifying quality and junk. I had my share of both.

1911Ron
September 22, 2017, 17:25
You will notice general opinions in certain circles. You have to see past the opinions of purist snobs. These are usually people that are wealthy enuf to own originals like HKs and FN/FALs etc. If you dont have an originol, what you have is junk. They hawk their opinions loud and proud. I used to wonder why they are so vocal. For years i just passed it off as ego, elitism and such.
In recent years i have come to understand it is that and more. The more is $$. They love to value their assets way above reality. Anything that threatens to breath reality into the subject matter threatens their percieved value and elitism.
Example. Everyone agrees the NFA is unconstitutional and needs repealing. But when you bring it up, the first and loudest objectors are always guys that already own NFA weapons. They worry that their items will loose value over night and their elite status will be gone as well.
Moral of the story? If the general opinion is bad, yet guys that actually own these items are consistantly asserting that they are good evidenced by the fact the company sells every one they make, every year, i think id go with the owner group opinion.

Interesting view point since no "purist or snob" had responded before your post, so far those that responded did for the most part positively, now the negative that i saw was the short gas system over a longer one comes from experience.

As for DSA and their quality it is hit and miss, there has been good and bad experience with their customer service so....

As for NFA i must of missed that part of the thread?????

michael_g927
September 23, 2017, 08:32
Well Ron, with more than 1000 posts here surely you can comprehend my statement. Clarified just for you...
Detractors in many cases never even owned said item, they just regurgitate opinions generated by others considered "in the know". THIS is the general flavor of this forum. On the other hand, guys that do own said item generaly report favorably. Hmmm. Which one to side with. May be a tough one for you.
Now due to the fact you open up critically of me pointing out this common thrend on this forum, then finish up your statement with detractive statements on the subject tells me my initial post has struck a nerve with you. This tells me which side of the fence you fall on.
God help me if i had pointed out the demise of the 1911 in service. Boy i bet you would have really came unglued!
Always amazes me how relatively bright guys get cought up in pure emotion (facts bedamned!) And feel they MUST take it to heart so much that they have to viscerally argue when none was necessary in the first place.
Ron. What HK weapons do you currently own or maybe, what HK weapons have you once owned?

4markk
September 23, 2017, 09:17
Example. Everyone agrees the NFA is unconstitutional and needs repealing. But when you bring it up, the first and loudest objectors are always guys that already own NFA weapons.

That would be a VERY tough argument from a Constitutional basis. In 1934, they were less likely to cross Constitutional lines and crafted the laws very carefully. Example, NFA doesn't ban anything firearms related. It only "taxes" the ownership of said items. Which is why it appears mainly in Article 26 (tax code).

NOW, GCA of 68 and 86 bans the production of transferable MGs. In my opinion, unConstitutional. A much easier case than taking on NFA.

Also realize, a lot of GCA can be gutted just by "defining" certain items. Which were left to the regulators to define (under the color of law).

They worry that their items will loose value over night and their elite status will be gone as well.

:homerdoh: Of course, when you invest $30,000 into a MG, the last thing you want to happen is it worth a $1,000 the next day. In my opinion, that is a chance you take with any "investment", doesn't mean they'll like it.

.. I don't own an "Original" FAL or a Class III weapon ..

I do !!!!! What do I win??????


What HK weapons do you currently own or maybe, what HK weapons have you once owned?

I have an HK top cover for my FAL ...... What do I win??????????

1911Ron
September 23, 2017, 14:54
Well Ron, with more than 1000 posts here surely you can comprehend my statement. Clarified just for you...
Detractors in many cases never even owned said item, they just regurgitate opinions generated by others considered "in the know". THIS is the general flavor of this forum. On the other hand, guys that do own said item generaly report favorably. Hmmm. Which one to side with. May be a tough one for you. :facepalm: Reading comprehension is not your strong point is it? I will try to explain it for you, until YOU brought it up there wasn't any thing negative as only owners of said rifles responded, so they should know right?
Now due to the fact you open up critically of me pointing out this common thrend on this forum, then finish up your statement with detractive statements on the subject tells me my initial post has struck a nerve with you. This tells me which side of the fence you fall on. No nerve struck here mate, i simply replied to your accusations of the way it normally goes and pointed out KNOWN facts not conjectures. What is this fence you speak of?
God help me if i had pointed out the demise of the 1911 in service. Boy i bet you would have really came unglued! I actually carried the 1911 in the service and also carried the 92 and no i didn't "come unglued" sorry.
Always amazes me how relatively bright guys get cought up in pure emotion (facts bedamned!) And feel they MUST take it to heart so much that they have to viscerally argue when none was necessary in the first place.
Ron. What HK weapons do you currently own or maybe, what HK weapons have you once owned? No HKs in what i own only beacause i don't like how they feel, i base my purchase on ergonomics over brand most of the time, not really sure how HK products came into the conversation? If you only want to argue about something head to the politics section.:rofl:

K-fal58
September 23, 2017, 20:39
I have helped others and myself build guns around that barrel . I have never had a problem other than having to take the shoulder back. The problem with Dsa is there made in house receivers. Get you a good receiver and the components you want and send it to Mark at Arizona Responds Systems.
The key is using good surplus parts and as many as you can find. I use mostly Steyr parts in all my builds. They are just the best in my opinion and the parts are better than good.
With practice and experience you can build one just as good as any import fal or factory build. You just have to have good parts and the knowledge. Good surplus parts have all but dried up and you will have to pay for the good stuff. My advice find a nice Stg kit that's matching so you are certain its not pieced together and use that barrel you want from Dsa. You can't go wrong.

michael_g927
September 24, 2017, 02:16
Well Ron, there was no arguing until you showed up.
So let me get this straight. You never owned any Hk products? Yet you are here perpetrating negative information on prosucts you admittedly have no experience with?
I rest my case.
O.P., this is EXACTLY what i warned you about im my initial post. I think were done here.,

K-fal58
September 24, 2017, 08:13
I have owned a hk 91 and 93. Liked the guns but from a price point there are better options in today's market and better performance. Owned both in the 80s and sold both before the craze ended. Not a fan of folded sheet medal guns.
Have a friend who collects them but even he will admit there are better options out there. I joke with him about watching to many 80's action movies for his love of Hk.

cavegeo
September 24, 2017, 08:39
Well Ron, there was no arguing until you showed up.
So let me get this straight. You never owned any Hk products? Yet you are here perpetrating negative information on prosucts you admittedly have no experience with?
I rest my case.
O.P., this is EXACTLY what i warned you about im my initial post. I think were done here.,

You're the only one arguing.

Nor did anyone post about HK until you did, and which has nothing to add to this thread.

I do own a 16' fluted barrel DSA with the short gas system. Mine is an older one with a LMT receiver and I have never had any issues. It has been very reliable and a good shooter. I have even used it in 3 gun matches.

Do you own a similar rifle? If not then why even post in this thread.

gunplumber
September 24, 2017, 09:29
DS prefix, serial number between 10,000 and 19,000(?) = excellent.
DSA prefix - you are taking a risk. I may expand the DS range to include some DSA, as I gather more information. DS Arms representatives have put out confusing and contradictory information on which receivers were made in house, and which by the excellent subcontractor Lewis Machine Tool. They also have blatantly lied with published false advertising, that their receivers were forged, when in fact they were selling cast receivers (a DSA representative publicly acknowledge the false advertising.) A couple members here believed forged to be superior and ordered forged, and received cast. The same cast receivers DSA previously mocked - implying them to be inferior. Even the LMT are not "forged" in the traditional sense, but are machined from a forged billet. Personally, I have no problem with cast receivers, or forged, although in my extensive, meticulous, highly documented reviews (see the review section) the allegedly forged receivers are more dimensionally correct. But that is not a factor of them being forged vs cast. It is a factor of better machining.

DSA magazines are garbage. They know this. They were put on notice over 5 years ago as to the fundamental defects in their magazines, but Dave Selvaggio sells them anyway. Knowingly selling defective products - it's The Chicago Way.

Their current receivers are fundamentally defective. DSA was put on notice over a year ago as to the defects in their receivers, yet they continue to sell them anyway. While one DSA paid employee (Agent) is admitting the defects, another DSA paid employee (Agent) calls my extensive documentation "bullshit". A DSA agent has also accused me, on a public forum, of being a domestic terrorist. For years, DS Arms representatives have attempted to silence my reporting of problems with DSA products. DSA's agents have threatened me with violence (across state lines, by the way) and attempted to mitigate the damage my peer-reviewed observations, by attacking my character. They have repeatedly lied about me in an attempt to damage my reputation and cause me financial hardship. That would normally be defamation per se, but I have proven DSA representatives to be liars on so many occasions that nobody really takes them seriously anymore - which would make it difficult (but not impossible) for me to prevail in a defamation suit. You see, the evidence supporting my assertions is so overwhelming, and so frequently mirrored by others with the identical observations, that DSA's Agents' constantly slandering, me has no effect (other than reinforcing my asserted Culture of corruption - it's The Chicago Way). Just this month, DSA's Agent (the fake commando, disgraced cop one) reacted to my magazine fit video by challenging me to a fistfight! hahahahhaha.

Whether you want to deal with Dave Selvaggio Arms - a company that KNOWINGLY SELLS DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS - is a tough call. They are really the only ones to make a receiver anymore. They throw their "lifetime warranty around", yet stories are common where people return their defective guns for warranty work, and receive them back after a ridiculous long time with no work performed. I have a couple guns in right now that already came back from DSA with the same problems they were returned for. "F-ck You, we're DSA!" It's The Chicago Way and nothing is going to change because DS Arms has a culture of dishonesty. , starting at the top. I have personally called out DS Arms agents for their lies so many times, that it takes multiple pages just to list them*.

I can usually fix the defects in the DSA. You can't rely on it to be correct from DSA or for DSA to fix it. Factor in the additional cost and risk when making your buying decision.



*And now, that punk Dave Selvaggio, thinks having his attorney send me a nasty-gram is going to bully me into silence? He thinks he can bully FalFiles into banning me and deleting all my posts. Bring it, bitches! I have 25+ f-cking years documenting DSA's shenanigans.

bigsky
September 24, 2017, 09:43
1911 Ron,,,,you mentioned you may have had issues with short gas system fals,I am here to learn before I put one of these together, or maybe I wont if to much negative, could you explain your experiences with the short gas system,

fuel fire desire
September 24, 2017, 09:58
1911 Ron,,,,you mentioned you may have had issues with short gas system fals,I am here to learn before I put one of these together, or maybe I wont if to much negative, could you explain your experiences with the short gas system,

I'm curious too. While I haven't had any issue with my carbine, an SBR has always been a thought in the back of my mind.





On another note, I decided to spend more money on the carbine and ordered a DSA short gas 1913 handguard. Primarily because I think the adapter and AFG assembly adds too much vertical drop to my off hand placement. The railed handguard should lift that front grip up a good 3/4". Also, I was never too keen on having my front sling swivel being mounted in unsupported plastic.

This once lightweight carbine is turning into quite the pig.



*I did order the VLTOR going on a year ago now from Delta 3 Tactical (for a screaming deal). He never shipped my order, returned emails, or phone calls. I still am pretty bummed over the deal.

gunplumber
September 24, 2017, 10:12
Oh goodness - The completely discredited, pathologically lying piece-of-shit michael_g927 has crawled back out of her hole to pontificate once again.

I thought the moderators finally woke up and banned this piece-of-shit for her vicious slander of her betters?

What happened? Why hasn't this piece-ofshit been banned?

the gman
September 24, 2017, 11:25
Oh goodness - The completely discredited, pathologically lying piece-of-shit michael_g27 has crawled back out of her hole to pontificate once again.

I thought the moderators finally woke up and banned this piece-of-shit for her vicious slander of her betters?

What happened? Why hasn't this piece-ofshit been banned?

Mark, can you get off the fence with how you feel about that poster? :D:D:D

In adding something to the thread, I recently completed a rifle for a client with a type 1 DSA prefix receiver he purchased some time ago. Serial # is DSA348XX. Was told it was a forged receiver. It went together nicely with no issues and functioned perfectly. Magazine fit in the mag well, no excessive force required to seat or remove mag, mag release pivot pin hole was properly tapped and all in all, was a pleasure to put together.

<a href="https://imgur.com/A3tzx64"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/A3tzx64.jpg?1" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

<a href="https://imgur.com/bvlJe9r"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/bvlJe9r.jpg?1" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

<a href="https://imgur.com/PIEVr1R"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/PIEVr1R.jpg?2" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

1911Ron
September 24, 2017, 14:40
1911 Ron,,,,you mentioned you may have had issues with short gas system fals,I am here to learn before I put one of these together, or maybe I wont if to much negative, could you explain your experiences with the short gas system,

I have no experience with short gas systems i was referring to fuel fire desires comment about short vs longer gas systems, sorry if it came across that way.

I was trying to squelch an argument that one poster tried to start, not sure what happened:facepalm:

1911Ron
September 24, 2017, 14:50
Well Ron, there was no arguing until you showed up.
So let me get this straight. You never owned any Hk products? Yet you are here perpetrating negative information on prosucts you admittedly have no experience with?
I rest my case.
O.P., this is EXACTLY what i warned you about im my initial post. I think were done here.,

:facepalm:

To the group i apologize for feeding the TROLL i am truly sorry.:rofl::rofl:

gunplumber
September 24, 2017, 14:53
Serial # is DSA348XX. Was told it was a forged receiver.

Interesting serial number, because in 2012, DSARMS_REP stated that both DS prefix and DSA prefix started at 10,000. nwobhm questioned this because he had been told by DS Arms agents "numerous times" that DSA prefix started at 20,000.

Did you notice an F on the underside? While this was assumed to mean "forged" apparently, it doesn't. Nor have I seen any that are supposed to have a C on them for cast.

By the way, I left out a 0 in my previous post so edited it. 10,000, not 1,000.

michael_g927
September 24, 2017, 15:08
Ron your agressive post brought this on.
T. Mark. Lets look at your statements AGAIN. You call Dave foul names. You say he is bad because you think he tried to get you banned and your posts deleted. (ALL THINGS YOU HAVE DONE TO ME AND ANYONE ELSE THAT DOESNT COWER TO YOU).
You say his lawyer had a word with you. THE SAME THING YOU MENTIONED TO ME. Except Dave probably had you dead to rights.
Lets compare you and ole Dave. I have already posted the ATF proof that you are a liar about the "thousands upon thousands" if rifles you claim. I also posted proof you are NOT an HK repair center. Also you have NEVER done any work for the HK MUSEUM.
Lets see. Ole Dave built a company in less than 15 years that builds more rifles in a year than you have in "25 years". They MANUFACTURE and sell military grade weapons around the world. You xant even send just 1 reciever across the Rio Grand.
The reason guys like you bash legitimate companies making these designs here is because they are your only competition.
That in itself negates any opinion you have.

1911Ron
September 24, 2017, 15:25
Ron your agressive post brought this on.
T. Mark. Lets look at your statements AGAIN. You call Dave foul names. You say he is bad because you think he tried to get you banned and your posts deleted. (ALL THINGS YOU HAVE DONE TO ME AND ANYONE ELSE THAT DOESNT COWER TO YOU).
You say his lawyer had a word with you. THE SAME THING YOU MENTIONED TO ME. Except Dave probably had you dead to rights.
Lets compare you and ole Dave. I have already posted the ATF proof that you are a liar about the "thousands upon thousands" if rifles you claim. I also posted proof you are NOT an HK repair center. Also you have NEVER done any work for the HK MUSEUM.
Lets see. Ole Dave built a company in less than 15 years that builds more rifles in a year than you have in "25 years". They MANUFACTURE and sell military grade weapons around the world. You xant even send just 1 reciever across the Rio Grand.
The reason guys like you bash legitimate companies making these designs here is because they are your only competition.
That in itself negates any opinion you have.
Ah now i remember you :rofl: and yes i know the HK reference.

Now here's a cookie for you, now go away again. :rofl::rofl:


Oh and if you think my post was aggressive you need thicker skin.

OLDMANPBK
September 24, 2017, 16:31
Mark, can you get off the fence with how you feel about that poster? :D:D:D

In adding something to the thread, I recently completed a rifle for a client with a type 1 DSA prefix receiver he purchased some time ago. Serial # is DSA348XX. Was told it was a forged receiver.

FWIW
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386904

michael_g927
September 24, 2017, 16:45
Ron, i elevated my intensity in response to your abrasive post. It seems as though its you crying about my response
Had you never came in all agressive and then validate my oost in your last sentance, we woukd not ve here at this point this very moment.

1911Ron
September 24, 2017, 17:58
Ron, i elevated my intensity in response to your abrasive post. It seems as though its you crying about my response
Had you never came in all agressive and then validate my oost in your last sentance, we woukd not ve here at this point this very moment.
:rofl::rofl::rofl: Dude learn how to spell! Please point to the abrasive post, no wait i'll do it for you, you came in looking for trouble i simply tried to point out that there WAS NO ARGUMENT NOR BASHING NOR SNOBBERY in any of the posts and those that had anything to say did so from EXPERIENCE!!!
You then started off on some BS about my hurt feelings about 1911, then you went off on me about H&K products yet there was NO mention about it anywhere and yet you felt it necessary to bring it up.

Now please go away! (see i can be nice and non abrasive! :rofl::rofl::rofl:)

the gman
September 24, 2017, 21:03
Interesting serial number, because in 2012, DSARMS_REP stated that both DS prefix and DSA prefix started at 10,000. nwobhm questioned this because he had been told by DS Arms agents "numerous times" that DSA prefix started at 20,000.

Did you notice an F on the underside? While this was assumed to mean "forged" apparently, it doesn't. Nor have I seen any that are supposed to have a C on them for cast.

By the way, I left out a 0 in my previous post so edited it. 10,000, not 1,000.

It did have an 'F' on the underside. I was pleasantly surprised at just how pain free this was. IIRC, I think it had a .260 LS, timed perfectly and screwed together without heartache. I have a buddy who wants to build a short gas possibly SBR FAL so wondering if I should spin the wheel and go for another DSA receiver or not... :eek::eek::eek:

michael_g927
September 24, 2017, 22:52
Well i never won any spelling bees, i also am a bit more focused on the conversation than the petty stuff. Besides most folks are acustomed to keyboard communication now that when they see things like "tge" its understood that the g is right next to the h ^tge" is not a misspelling, but actually a type o.
Usually when someone tries to discredit someone with spelling, grammar, and punctuation, its because they simply cannot win the debate itself or discredit the facts. So, avoid the actual facts and go after the person.
Now where have we seen someone who had no plan, so their whole campaign was built around slinging petty crap at their opponent. In doing so, the opponent spends their whole time defending and deflecting the crap. Thusly never getting to talk about the plan that they actually have. Ultimately neither get to speak on real topics thereby concealing the fact that the crap slinger actually has no plan. Seems as though this was recently attempted, and with a billion dollars behind it, they average intelligence level folks possess, saw thru it and the scheme failed. This is no different.

55bird
September 25, 2017, 06:20
Synopsis Folks, DSA has had issues, as with many guns they need competent gunsmiths like Mark to make them work. I have had multiple $1000+ guns with issue's straight from various manufacturers but they were not common as in some protesting being bad mouthed because of their consistent problems in quality control.

gunplumber
September 25, 2017, 08:31
bla bla bla

You continue to post blatant, malicious slander despite repeated proof by myself and others that you are lying.

I continue to tell the truth. And back it up with hundreds of photos and documentation, and have done so for 25+ years.

I don't "call Dave foul names", I accurately identify and describe his petulant behavior using the common frame of reference "punk" and "bitch".

Just like with you. I accurately identify and classify you as a compulsive liar. It is a fact that you lie with a frequency matched by few others. My value judgement, which is shared by others, is that one who lies, particularly one who lies in an attempt to cause another harm, is a worthless thing - as worthless as shit. A worthless piece of shit.

Note I did not identify you as a cocksucker (which seems a default insult to some), because I have no knowledge of, nor interest in, your sexual preferences. I did not identify you as a fat slob, because I have no knowledge of your eating and exercise habits, and the results so obtained from them.

Those would be gratuitous. No, I identified you as a malicious slanderer (fact). I characterize (opinion) a malicious slanderer as a lowlife, piece of shit. That is my metaphoric "value judgement" as to a slanderer like yourself.

I have already posted the ATF proof that you are a liar about the "thousands upon thousands" if rifles you claim.

And multiple people have explained to you the difference between gunsmith & return (no FET), and manufacture for purpose of resale (FET due). Yet you continue to post the defamatory assertions in a deliberate attempt to hurt my reputation.

I also posted proof you are NOT an HK repair center. Also you have NEVER done any work for the HK MUSEUM.

Two problems, no make that three. One is, you frequently accuse me of not being/doing things I have never claimed to be/do. Known as "strawman." So you are lying with intent to discredit me by asserting that claims I never made are false.

I have been refinishing for the HK repair department for around 25 years. I posted pictures of "HK Demo Only" mp5s I've done, as well as a 1099 tax form from HK declaring to the IRS that they were paying me. I explained exactly how I was introduced through mutual friends to the HK training division, some 25 years ago.

Yet you continue to post your lies, in an attempt to discredit me and hurt my business.

One of the rifles HK sent me for refinish was a special G3K the guy authorizing payment, told me was for the HK Museum. Whatever that means to you, is irrelevant. It is a statement of fact.

In asserting that I was lying, you claimed to have just spoken with Bob Schultz (director of training and technical services) and that he had only the dimmest memory of me from the distant past. To which I responded with an e-mail discussion we had just had that week, on attempting to identify an early import; and a FedEx shipping label from Bob, that very week, where he had sent me more parts to refinish. So not only do you constantly lie about me, but now you are lying about statements made by a senior HK representative.

There is no doubt about it. You must be banned. If the moderators won't step up and do their duty, then it is up to the rest of the membership to revile and ostracize you for the worthless piece of shit you have so emphatically demonstrated yourself to be.

That is, every place you post, the readership must be reminded that you are a proven malicious slanderer and anything you post must be considered in that light.

gunplumber
September 25, 2017, 09:03
I'm actually in conflict over this. While in principle, I believe dishonest people like you should be punished (ostracized, reviled, banned); it is to my financial benefit for a malicious slanderer such as yourself to continue trolling me.

Americans seem to enjoy conflict, and every time you slither out from under your rock (metaphor, comparing you to a worm or snake), and spew more of your malicious slander, it gives me an opportunity to display my awesomeness.

Trolls like you introduce new members to "The Awesome that is Gunplumber" and I get to post photos of work I've done without it counting as advertising. I get accolades from others - independent testimony confirming my technical expertise. Traffic to my website spikes. It's a guerilla marketing "all you can eat buffet" and the last thing I want (from a business perspective) is for you to stop. But that's because you are an obvious liar, and I prove it every time. Detractors enhance my credibility by allowing me to "prove it", which I do with aplomb.

But I also have a strong sense fairness and equity. Allowing a maliciously lying piece-of-shit like you to continue spreading your poison, is just wrong.

michael_g927
September 25, 2017, 11:37
So we have been thru this before. I have provem you are a liar. I have posted atf links to prove such. I posted contact info for those inside HK that disagreed with your recollections of your relationship with them.
So just stop. I wont ever read your posts. Those that know, know you are a hack. Those that respect you just dont know any better.
How is it that I troll you? I am usually in a thread before you. You are never mentioned by me. With the exception of your claimed connection to HK. (I just couldnt help myself). So again, how is it i that trolls you? Im here first. You address me first. Its you addressing me with foul and abusive slander. And thats another question. How am i slandering you? All i do is ask you questions. PUBLICALLY. All be it, the questions are based upon statements offered up by you. Statements that most of us know are false. You see, thats the fun of it all.
So i ask questions. And thats trolling?
These are the reasons i am still here. I have never belittled any one. I have never called anyone foul names. You have done these things even in this very thread. Personally id be ashamed of any public relationship with you. Maybe this is why when the HK rep realized who you were his tone suddenly was abrasive while he told me the truth about you.
Do you know why you can bash Dave and DSA? Because you know this thread will be long gone before he ever comes around this forum. Very cowardly slandering folks who are not present.
So T. Mark, can you be civil? Because the rest of us are tired of reading about all your little vendettas and tiffs. Ok we get it. You hate everyone. Nobody is as good as you. Now can you be civil? Because i dont see any of the people and companies you seem to be butthurt over, i dont see them here "slandering" you. So why you them?
Just be cordial. Can you?

gunplumber
September 25, 2017, 12:17
So we have been thru this before.
true. And yet you continue posting the same lies, after being corrected by myself and others.

I have provem you are a liar.

Lie.

I have posted atf links to prove such.
lie - as you have been told by many here. ATF 5320-11 is for FET - manufactured for resale. It does not include builds where the customer sends me their own parts for gunsmithing. Repeating the same lie after you've had the truth beaten into you, is why you should be banned.

I posted contact info for those inside HK that disagreed with your recollections of your relationship with them.

Lie - as proven by my correspondence THAT week with Bob - your claims he had only a vague recollection of me was a blatant lie. I posted an e-mail correspondence I had that week with him, and the Fedex labels he printed on work he was sending me. And the IRS form 1099 HK filed, proving they were paying me as an independent contractor. Oh, and the photos of "HK Demo Only" marked guns I'd refinished. Continuing these blatant lies after my incontrovertible proof, is malicious slander, and why you should be banned.

I also published a photograph of my Gunsmith of the Year plaque from Small Arms Review magazine. Now one can dispute the value of it, sure. But your continued lying that it didn't happen, after I posted pictures of it, is malicious slander, and why you should be banned.



Just be cordial. Can you?

Cordiality is earned, not granted. While it is the default for a stranger, I owe no duty of politeness to a low-life, lying, maliciously slandering piece of shit like you.

michael_g927
September 25, 2017, 13:17
Pretty desperate huh. I guess by your definitions and standards, every welfare and food atamp recipient is a government employee. They are all serving in trumps office. After all, they all have paychecks to prove it. And if they say tell us they are government employees with a check to prove it, i guess we should all just accept it as the truth huh?
Just sit back and stop it. The only thing that truly seperates you from the rest of the members here is the fact that nobody else works so hard to sell themselves as someone or something they are not.
Sit down. Have a coke and a smile. I thibkbyou kbow the rest of the saying. Seriousely. When talking with folks in the industry, they always quickly dismiss this forum with less than desirable statements. And sadly your name is ALWAYS associated. Do you realize, these are advertising and partnership dollars being spent in places like AR15.com?
YOU sir are killing this very old and excellent comminity. We could have grown and prospered. The FAL design deserves to live on. Its horrible when shooters have never even seen a FAL. This place should be THE place to learn about this badass rifle and the awesome American company keeping it alive.
Instead for a very few sponsor dollars you personally are turning away those that can really facilitate this. Why? So you can sit on your fake throne and sell a couple bent barrels?
Sir, guys are wising up. Hopefully it happens in time to save this forum and the awesome people gathered here to talk about this "right arm of the free world" and other designs used to keep the world straight.
We all deserve at least that.
So can you be civil?

1911Ron
September 25, 2017, 13:38
Pretty desperate huh. I guess by your definitions and standards, every welfare and food atamp recipient is a government employee. They are all serving in trumps office. After all, they all have paychecks to prove it. And if they say tell us they are government employees with a check to prove it, i guess we should all just accept it as the truth huh?
Just sit back and stop it. The only thing that truly seperates you from the rest of the members here is the fact that nobody else works so hard to sell themselves as someone or something they are not.
Sit down. Have a coke and a smile. I thibkbyou kbow the rest of the saying. Seriousely. When talking with folks in the industry, they always quickly dismiss this forum with less than desirable statements. And sadly your name is ALWAYS associated. Do you realize, these are advertising and partnership dollars being spent in places like AR15.com?
YOU sir are killing this very old and excellent comminity. We could have grown and prospered. The FAL design deserves to live on. Its horrible when shooters have never even seen a FAL. This place should be THE place to learn about this badass rifle and the awesome American company keeping it alive.
Instead for a very few sponsor dollars you personally are turning away those that can really facilitate this. Why? So you can sit on your fake throne and sell a couple bent barrels?
Sir, guys are wising up. Hopefully it happens in time to save this forum and the awesome people gathered here to talk about this "right arm of the free world" and other designs used to keep the world straight.
We all deserve at least that.
So can you be civil?

:facepalm::rofl::rofl::rofl: Spellcheck aisle 5! Prozac aisle 5 STAT!!!!

gunplumber
September 25, 2017, 13:54
So can you be civil?

Says the lowlife, malicious slandering, piece of shit?

You have earned contempt, derision, and mockery. You do not deserve civility. You should be banned.

michael_g927
September 25, 2017, 15:20
Stuck on Stupid. And this is why i operate in all the places and forums you wont show your face in.
So i guess we can agree to disagree.

michael_g927
September 25, 2017, 15:31
Ron. Post 33 was just for you sir. I guess because i didnot come out and say your name, it went a bit over your head. I will try to speak directly to your level in the future.
Be safe sir.
You should actually spend some time with the Cetme/G3 design before passing bad info as though you are speaking from some vast experience.
I predicted you before you posted and like clockwork, there you here. Its stuff like this why you hear things like "you cant trust stuff you see on the internet".
Wouldnt it be awesome if FalFiles were known for solid guys giving solid advise? It was. Way back when i first got here.

jugrunner
September 26, 2017, 14:01
.. :popcorn: ..


sorry but this guy sounds (and posts) very much like the DSA rep before we got R1BullShooter .. ??

anyone else notice a familiar ring .. ??

maybe I'm wrong .. :?

michael_g927
September 26, 2017, 15:05
Youd be

bigsky
September 26, 2017, 18:22
Where is w.e.g. when we need him? enough of high jacking my post, back on track with the original post,,, any one have any thing constructive to add.....:facepalm:

fuel fire desire
September 26, 2017, 20:25
Where is w.e.g. when we need him? enough of high jacking my post, back on track with the original post,,, any one have any thing constructive to add.....:facepalm:

I really really like my SA58. :smile:




Any more specific questions on it? Id be more than happy to tell you anything about it.



A note about the barrel that I was surprised about:

The barrel forward of the gas block is quite thin, almost what you'd expect a 5.56 to be (which is why my .308 comp looks absurd on it), but under the hand guard is what Id almost consider to be a bull barrel. It really surprised me. Though, I guess its lightened where it can be, and robust where it needs to be.


My gas regulator is almost always opened wide (setting 7 of 7). The slightly weaker ZQI wants it to be at a 6 when its really dirty. PMC and Tula (yeah....dont) all power through grime at 7. With the longer dwell time the short gas system has on a 16" barrel, its fair to say the gun is on the over-gassed side.


From what Ive heard (Im no FAL or DSA expert.....) the whole reasoning behind the DSA short gas system is to get SBR's and pistols to happen. I also heard somewhere (an interview with a DSA rep somewhere) that this Tactical Carbine was designed to be a para from the start, which is why some features don't quite make sense on the fixed stock version. Most notably the sling swivel locations on the bottom center of the standard humpback stock and top front left side of the hand guard. With a two point sling.....its just awkward. With the 3 point I have on it, it works OK. the forward swivel at the front of the hand guard lays the sling right across my support hand though in 2 or 3 point set ups. With a 3 point, the runner strap gets right in the way of the charging handle. Though, after years of using it like this, my muscle memory has worked around it.



Speed reloads were not efficient with the standard mag release. I am SO excited to see DSA make an oversized ambi release that buts right up to the trigger guard. I was lucky enough to snag a Slo-Cat checkered extended release before they disappeared (Gunplumber makes one too), and it made a WORLD of difference in my tacticool style shooting. I can reach forward with my trigger finger, stab the release, and flick the gun to drop out the mag (almost as fast as I can do with an AR). Im probably going to order the new DSA release and see if it improves comfort. My finder tends to get very irritated and tender after a day of poking 20 LPI steel checkering on a stiff release. It looks like the DSA will allow for more leverage, and a much shorter reach.


Slo-Cat's release (gone forever it seems)

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316433

http://i62.tinypic.com/2wn7m35.jpg




DSA's new release.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417358

https://www.dsarms.com/images/Product/medium/16661.jpg

michael_g927
September 26, 2017, 22:32
I am planning to send my SAR4800 in for a couple things, this release is one. Thanks for your input. It just makes me want to get it done even sooner.
Their work is very reasonably priced. Installing a muzzle device is only $65!!!

bigsky
September 27, 2017, 10:58
fuel fire desire,,burtman,,,are your rifles the DS prefix or DSA prefix, only wondering due to the new receivers seem to have issues with some mags not working in the newer model receivers, I do not know this from my own experience just from testimonials from this forum.

fuel fire desire
September 27, 2017, 13:44
fuel fire desire,,burtman,,,are your rifles the DS prefix or DSA prefix, only wondering due to the new receivers seem to have issues with some mags not working in the newer model receivers, I do not know this from my own experience just from testimonials from this forum.

DSA


Purchased in 2012.

K-fal58
September 27, 2017, 21:49
Mark everything you have said is right on the money. Yea guys 25 years experience works for me. Why do you continue to question the man. Do they not realize that if he didn't build these guns for a living he wouldn't even be on this sight. There are just to many a$$ Holes to deal with. Some of Marks opinions I have disagreed with but when it comes to building FAL's and Ds arms his words are in stone. The man gives free knowledge all the time to most of us when we need help and you still shit all over and argue with him.
There is a post he put up the other day about fixing surplus mags and the tools he made to fix them. Did he ask for a thank you or tell you to send them to him to fix and charge you. No he freely gave the info. I respect that. Weather you like him or not he has a right to his opinion. Mark can fight his own battles and I am not tring to step on toes. Just give the man respect

michael_g927
September 27, 2017, 23:50
Your a little late to the party. Pretty much been settled and everyone already went home. Youll get em next time huh?

1911Ron
September 28, 2017, 08:10
Your a little late to the party. Pretty much been settled and everyone already went home. Youll get em next time huh?

:facepalm: Give a rest you don't have to "win" all the time.

gunplumber
September 28, 2017, 08:49
:facepalm: Give a rest you don't have to "win" all the time.

Actually, I don't think she's ever "won" -
She makes some stupid assertion or
she maliciously slanders her betters
she gets trounced
she gets bitch-slapped
she gets cudgeled
then she disappears for a while
then comes back claiming some kind of victory.

Micheal_g927 is a maliciously slandering piece of shit. She has contributed nothing to this board - she needs to be banned. She can return to the other boards where she "operates" (sic).

michael_g927
September 28, 2017, 09:51
In contests like this what generally happens one side presents facts and evidence (kinda like my atf link for example), the party being questioned responds with aggressive and relentless foul mouthing all the while never actually presenting any real evidence to the contrary.
Now these exchanges keep happening until acouple things emerge. 1 there is a well established trend that the questioned has consistently failed to prove otherwise. And 2 the questioner has tired of the arguement and rested his case. This is where we are now.
Now mark uses timing to muddy the waters. He does NOT engage in answering the questions when the interrogation is actually happening. He will allow it to pass.
Then once enuf time has passed, he will reemerge and act as though he proved his claims way back when it was first questioned.
Now this will die down. And in the future he will find a thread i am participating in and he will come in to start it all over again.
He wont let it go until i leave the forum because as long as i am here it makes him nervous. Someone knows enuf to call gim on his lies.
That is the status of this relarionship.

fuel fire desire
September 29, 2017, 00:32
Here's a pic of the barrel under the handguard while I had it off to install the new DSA aluminum handguard (I'll write a review thread for it). Even though it's hidden, they still fluted it.



https://i.imgur.com/2KRgikk.jpg

the gman
September 29, 2017, 02:57
Holy HUGE pics man!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I wouldn't really call that fluting: they took a ball end mill, showed it to the barrel then took it away. No real depth to the flutes or not enough to make any kind of substantial difference. Looks kinda cool tho... :biggrin:

fuel fire desire
September 29, 2017, 09:18
Holy HUGE pics man!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I wouldn't really call that fluting: they took a ball end mill, showed it to the barrel then took it away. No real depth to the flutes or not enough to make any kind of substantial difference. Looks kinda cool tho... :biggrin:

Pretty much. I'm not exactly sure what it actually does for the rifle. Maybe increase surface area to let the barrel cool faster. But probably more so just to be able to say the barrel is "fluted" since the theme of the rifle is having everything be as weight conscious as possible. They may have been able to squeak out an ounce or two over the barrel as a whole.....of which I immediately ruin by adding that block of steel on the end of the barrel. :rofl:

gunplumber
September 29, 2017, 10:16
the theme of the rifle is having everything be as weight conscious as possible.

It is heavier than a standard barrel.

I can see a theoretical stiffness and cooling, but if you have to make the barrel larger diameter to then flute it, you have a net gain in weight.

fuel fire desire
September 29, 2017, 10:26
It is heavier than a standard barrel.

I can see a theoretical stiffness and cooling, but if you have to make the barrel larger diameter to then flute it, you have a net gain in weight.

Bingo.

Then its just tacticool.




Im surprised its heavier than a standard, especially with the narrow profile it has forward of the gas block.

Colosseum
September 29, 2017, 12:05
After a pretty negative experience with a brand-new 18.1" SA-58 not having a tight receiver lockup (and then later finding out that this was because of an out-of-spec upper receiver), I'd only buy from DSA again on the condition that a competent gunsmith like ARS puts it together. No ifs-ands-or-buts.

The year-long pain of sending the rifle back to DSA multiple times, only to have their in-house gunsmith tell me he had "never seen a lockup this tight" (when my Rhodesian and British kit built rifles locked up tighter) kind of sullied their reputation in my mind.

To their credit, they offered me a full refund, but I had wasted valuable time and energy sending the rifle back and forth. Send your rifle to ARS and have a professional take care of it... the several months' lead-time he has is well worth the satisfaction of knowing your rifle is good to go!

gunplumber
September 29, 2017, 13:05
After a pretty negative experience with a brand-new 18.1" SA-58 not having a tight receiver lockup (and then later finding out that this was because of an out-of-spec upper receiver), I'd only buy from DSA again on the condition that a competent gunsmith like ARS puts it together. No ifs-ands-or-buts.

The year-long pain of sending the rifle back to DSA multiple times, only to have their in-house gunsmith tell me he had "never seen a lockup this tight" (when my Rhodesian and British kit built rifles locked up tighter) kind of sullied their reputation in my mind.

To their credit, they offered me a full refund, but I had wasted valuable time and energy sending the rifle back and forth. Send your rifle to ARS and have a professional take care of it... the several months' lead-time he has is well worth the satisfaction of knowing your rifle is good to go!

Interesting you should say that, because R1shooter, DSA's Agent, was indicating that sending anything to me might void their "warranty". Which I found laughable. If their shit wasn't f-cked up, and dealing with DSA's "warranty," like pulling teeth, I wouldn't be constantly called on to fix their shit.

(FB) Daniel Lombard As we all know the DSA receivers would be warrantied if there was an issue , yes some small glitches happened, it not all are affected. Do not send this this Ars for repair or his opinion, I have heard due to his anti dsa rants it will not be covered by our warranty, apparently some skullduggery has been uncovered.

fuel fire desire
September 29, 2017, 14:14
So wait......DSA will void the warranty if you work on their stuff not because you aren't "them" or an "approved" gunsmith...but because you've had negative opinions about them? Wow.







More about the Carbine:

If you care to deal with giant pictures I did a write up on DSA's railed handguard for anyone interested. Lots of detail pics of the carbine inside.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4483977#post4483977

gunplumber
September 29, 2017, 14:22
So wait......DSA will void the warranty if you work on their stuff not because you aren't "them" or an "approved" gunsmith...but because you've had negative opinions about them? Wow.


Well, lets see - they've had a lawyer try to bully the FalFiles owner into banning me and deleting my reviews.
They've threatened me with legal action (bring it, bitches!).
Their agents and representatives have slandered me, and my technical competence (defamation per se).
One of their agents threatened me with violence (across state lines, hmmm . .. . )
One of their agents, the disgraced cop (too corrupt for Chicago PD) and "stolen valor" fake commando (R1shooter), has periodic drunken rampages against me on FB, and even challenged me to a fist-fight.
All because I publish detailed, meticulously documented (and peer-reviewed) evaluations of their products.

About the only thing they haven't done, is fix their shit, and cease knowingly selling defective parts..

It's The Chicago Way.

oleblu72
September 30, 2017, 14:02
Mark I think you irritate DSA just about as much as Trump irritates the Libatards that's got to make you feel good.

Mark

gunplumber
September 30, 2017, 21:21
Mark I think you irritate DSA just about as much as Trump irritates the Libatards that's got to make you feel good.

Mark

I just wish they'd put as much effort into fixing their defective shit, as they spend trying to silence, malign, or marginalize those who call them out on it. Then I could once again be the enthusiastic DSA supporter I was in the mid 90s. And we could both make a shit-load of money. But there remains The Chicago Way (a culture of corruption) that makes blustering, posturing, and threats more palatable than simply doing the right thing.

michael_g927
October 01, 2017, 11:44
Because of liability, most all companies disconnect from responsibility once untrained and unauthorized hands touch their product.
I once sent a G17 in for recall or something i dont remember. That pistol was super slick, even by todays standards. This was before the aftermarket explosion. Anyway, when i got it back, it had all new guts (not part of the recall or whatever). Even though i had been thru their schools, they would not
allow it to leave with anything other than their stock parts.
This does not stop with the gun industry. Quickest way to kill the warranty obligation on your new Corvette? Let a speed do just one power mod. Just one!
So this is not a unique situation by any stretch if the imagination.

fuel fire desire
October 01, 2017, 15:38
This does not stop with the gun industry. Quickest way to kill the warranty obligation on your new Corvette? Let a speed do just one power mod. Just one!
So this is not a unique situation by any stretch if the imagination.


This is not correct. Magnuson-Moss puts the burden on the manufacturer to prove the modification is the cause of the failure before voiding a warrany. I've done many a mod to a brand new vehicle, 4x4 and go-fast, and have had zero problems with warranty.

michael_g927
October 01, 2017, 19:59
I read that case once. And although perfectly true. In the real world, once a mfg gets,word of bubba at work, they are pretty much in the clear. Many warrantees even have that language as part. This is why they encourage using the 5 free oil changes they offer.
Hey Fuel, what kind of accuracy does ZQI give you? I bought a bunch for my SAR. I have made reasonable connections out to 500 with irons. This is minute of man.
The reason i ask is i put a DSA scope mount on it. Really nice part. I was thinkin of throwin my one of my retired SWFA 10x42M scopes on it to see what it will really do.
Might even throw some Hornady 178 AMAX thru it if it seems reasonable.

fuel fire desire
October 02, 2017, 04:49
ZQI isn't that great out of this 16" barrel. It's clean, cycles well, and hasn't given me any functional issues, but it shoots 4" off of a sandbag at 100 yards. Same with my RFB (which has a much better trigger).

I'm not claiming to be the best shot or anything, but those groups are not entirely my fault, even with the less than optimal triggers on the FAL and RFB. (Dime sized groups are a regular thing at the same range with my .243 varminter)

I do take this performance for what the gun and ammunition are though. A combat rifle shooting NATO machine gun rounds. With this rifle, I wanted to be able to hit steel out to 500-600 yards. With good ammo I believe it is capable. Other reviews of this barrel claim it to be 1.5 moa. I can see that with match ammo, though I've not tried.

ZQI, even though I stockpiled all I could when it was $9/box at Walmart, is just blasting ammo to me now. It does 3-gun style shooting just fine. Longer range....not so much.

michael_g927
October 02, 2017, 09:54
I have read that the locking mechanism of the FAL is the reason the design is not considered accurate enuf for even DMR work. I am sure these guys are probably better qualified than i to make that opinion. I just cant quite accept it without giving it an honest effort.
I realize it will never shoot flys at the 100yd range, but is it unreasonable to try for chest sized steel out to 800 once scoped and with ammo optimized for this rifle?

fuel fire desire
October 02, 2017, 10:06
I have read that the locking mechanism of the FAL is the reason the design is not considered accurate enuf for even DMR work. I am sure these guys are probably better qualified than i to make that opinion. I just cant quite accept it without giving it an honest effort.
I realize it will never shoot flys at the 100yd range, but is it unreasonable to try for chest sized steel out to 800 once scoped and with ammo optimized for this rifle?

My RFB shoots the same groups as this DSA with the same ammo, and with an 18" barrel. The bolt on the RFB is very very similar to the FAL. I think ZQI is more at fault than the rifles.

Or I just suck at shooting this caliber.

michael_g927
October 02, 2017, 22:31
Dont feel bad. I used to think i sucked. But then i hit 40 and all uncertainty was removed.
Right now i am focusing on my Perry rifle. But next fall i really want to wring out this FAL for all that its worth.
I have heard good things about the DSA dmr type rifles but have never seen one used in any of the schools.