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View Full Version : Review - DSA - FAL Receiver - Type 1, 2, 3 & F


gunplumber
July 28, 2017, 18:38
DSA Receiver Review
DSA quality has dropped significantly over the last several years, and their Brit cut L1A1s have been really bad. Yet when I post my comments and photographic evidence, there are still some DSA fanboys and paid shills who get their panties in a bind – maligning me for having the discourtesy to actually report my findings with photographic documentation.

So this is kindof a journal of my build notes. With 20 or so DSA receivers in for builds, I thought this a good time to document them consecutively, hopefully allowing for some comparisons that might reveal a pattern. I doubt DSA gives a shit, but if they do, perhaps my findings will motivate improvement.

Summary
The F marked type 1s are pretty good.
None of the Type 2s would accept a mag and had significant problems with locking shoulder..
The type 3 was really bad all around

I'll update this as I refine my notes and progress to testfire.

If a subsequent receiver had the same problem as the previous, I did not photograph it.

DSA 34704 Type 2 "F"
overall appearance: pass
receiver cover: fail – clearance front at 1-2 o'clock
e-block rear: pass
eblock at hinge: pass
e-block at rail: pass
bolt carrier to rail: pass. slight binding R side front, withn acceptable range
hinge hole: pass
hinge width: pass
Lockup: pass – barely. almost bottoms out
BHO: pass
mag catch screw: pass
mag catch: pass
mag fit: pass
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
timing: pass 10:30
LS dogleg: fail. Tapers from .307 front to .291 rear. sand shoulder
LS hole: fail – undersize, flapsand.
LS: .255
b/bc fit: pass. – barely. Bolt binding on rail to left of ejector. ragged finish. file smooth
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34704-01.jpg

DSA 34781 Type 1 "F"
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
mag catch screw: pass
mag catch fit: pass
mag fit: pass
BHO: pass
hinge hole: pass
lockup: pass. e-block very slight friction, inconsequential, light binding last 1/8" stepped rails
timing: pass StG barrel 10 o'clock
b/bc fit: pass. Some binding at e-block, but e-block not proud. Forced it a few times, light filing, now smooth. Small irregularity front rails right before feed ramps – narrower.
LS dogleg: pass
LS hole: pass
LS: .256
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34781-01.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34781-03.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34781-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34781-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34781-12.jpg

DSA 34844 Type 1 "F"
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
mag catch screw: pass
mag catch: pass
BHO: pass
mag fit: pass
timing: pass (FN). Note: DSA G1 barrel hand timed to 12:00
hinge hole: pass
Lockup: pass
LS dogleg: pass
LS hole: pass
LS: .264
b/bc fit: pass. Some binding last 1/8" from step in rail. Dremel from front. New standard - always dremel these steps from front before even trying fit.
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34844-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34844-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa34844-12.jpg

DSA 35184 Type 3 non F
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
mag catch screw: fail - won't even start – retapped
BHO: pass
mag catch: pass
hinge hole: pass
lockup: pass. Little binding at e-block
mag fit: epic fail – not even close to fitting. machine whole front and cut mag notch deeper
barrel threads: fail – too tight for my FN test barrel. Recut.
LS dogleg: pass
LS hole: pass - tight, but ok.
receiver note: excess metal left front – incompletely machined.
LS .256
b/bc fit: pass - step in rails created some binding (see above), but not significant – filed flat from front.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-01.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-02.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-03.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-04.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-05.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-06.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35184-12.jpg

DSA 35614 Type 2 No F
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
BHO: pass
mag catch screw: pass
Mag catch: pass
mag fit: fail – can be forced in. machine front of mag well and cut notch deeper
e-block: fail - significant gap
b/bc fit: fail. rails stepped up. clean up from front.
timing: pass FN and StG barrels. 10:30
LS dogleg: fail Dog leg undersize.
LS hole: fail. hole significantly undersize. Forces end of LS to cant forward. Flap sanded from left.
LS: 256"
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35614-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35614-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35614-12.jpg

DSA 35656 Type 2 non F
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
mag catch screw: pass
BHO: pass
mag fit: fail - machined
hinge hole: pass, but very tight - flap sand
lockup: pass
e-block: fail, gap
mag fit: fail
timing: pass FN short 10:00 IMBEL 10:30
b/bc fit: pass - rail step but IMBEL b/bc still cleared. Removed anyway.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35656-01.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35656-02.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35656-03.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35656-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35656-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35656-12.jpg

DSA 35660 Type 2 non F
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
BHO: pass (tight)
e-block: fail (gap)
mag catch screw: pass
mag fit: fail. Mag well significantly undersize, machining front sill requires mags to be forced in. even a DSA 30rd mag would not fit! Pulled e-block, machined underside of rails, machined step in front of e-block. Mags now fit!
bho: pass (tight)
e-block: fail gap
timing: pass
lockup: pass
LS 256
LS dogleg: fail – way undersize, dogleg not parallel and way undersize – had to machine rather than just sanding dogleg a bit.
LS hole: fail - undersize on L

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-01.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-02.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-03.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-04.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-05.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-06.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-07.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-08.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35660-12.jpg


DSA35684 Type 2 no F
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
mag catch screw: fail. retap
BHO: pass
mag catch: pass
mag fit – fail. machine mag well.
hinge hole: fail – flap sand
lockup: pass
timing: pass
b/bc fit: pass - slight binding on step in rails – file smooth
e-block: fail, gap
LS dogleg: fail, dogleg not parallel & undersize. – machine.
LS hole – fail, way undersize L side,
LS .257
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35684-01.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35684-02.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35684-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35684-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa35684-12.jpg

DSA 36170 Type 2 No F
ChH rail: pass
CH nut: pass
mag catch screw: fail – couldn't even start, retap.
BHO: pass
mag catch: pass
hinge hole: pass
lockup – fail - failed with IMBEL, DSA aluminum and NOS para lowers. receiver long.
hinge width: fail bad machining too tight
mag fit: fail - machine.
timing: pass - except for last 1/4 turn binding. chased. inconsequential
e-block: fail, gap
LS dogleg: pass
LS hole: FAIL way undersize, couldn't even start it
LS: .257
Para Carrier DSA: fail – no fp clearance. Could not install any bolt with FP installed. Ruined before pic, but it was just a single straight ramp, no bulge for the FP like on the IMBEL next to it. Opened up with 3/8" ball endmill.
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-01.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-02.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-03.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-04.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-05.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-06.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-07.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-08.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-09.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-10.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-11.jpg
finished rifle: http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/fal-dsa-dsa36170-12.jpg
(replica, still tweaking the camo)

DSA R1046 Type 1 "F"
e-block rear: pass – no gap
e-block at rail: pass – flush
e-block at hinge: pass – flush
hinge hole: pass
hinge width: pass
lockup: pass (sort-of) dust shield binds. Hinge area not rounded like on IMBEL, causing full contact with plate. I rounded it out. Not ready to bitch too much over this because some dust shield plates are higher than others, and as you can see (photo pending) there is still sometimes a light drag on a factory correct contour. Still, something that DSWA should look at (if they cared). Also, the receiver lock bottomed out. I will examine thi n reassembly to see if a different receiver lock will give the correct gap. It's possible the IMBEL receiver lock is excessively worn.
BHO: pass
mag catch: pass
mag catch screw: pass
mag fit: pass. (photo pending). There was a noticeable relief on this recevier to either side of the mag notch, extending to the top corners. This is the cut I add to receivers where the mag does not fit. So why is it not on the others? On the others it's a straight pass across the mag notch. This binds on the front top corners of the mag and prevents the rear from locking.
carry handle nut thread: pass
barrel thread: pass
barrel timing: pass (10:30)
bolt & carrier: pass Still has the step but on two bolts was not enough to bind. Removed anyway.
locking shoulder dogleg: pass (barely). Still slightly tapered from .305 to .291. .007 is a lot for an interference fit, so I sanded the locking shoulder instead of machining the recess.
locking shoulder hole: pass
locking shoulder size: fail (.249, tight close on .308)
receiver cover: pass


Next up will be the DSA L1A1 Brit pattern.

Boris
July 28, 2017, 21:12
It sucks that there are not better options out there right now. I hate to say it but I just bought a DSA FAL SA58 FORGED British Pattern L1A1 Carry Handle Cut Receiver. That I hope you'll build me a L1A1 when I get back to the States in a month?

coltrunner
July 28, 2017, 21:31
Thanks Mark for all the good info and the time you put in to.

308/223shooter
July 28, 2017, 22:10
Thanks Mark for all the good info and the time you put in to.

Second that. Too bad Dave won't take your advice and get his house in order. I'm in need of a Brit cut receiver, but don't want cast out of spec crap.

idsubgun
July 28, 2017, 22:11
As someone that machined stuff for several decades, this is simply piss-poor quality control and piss-poor machinists doing the machining.

And it's so simple to make some adjustments to the set-up, program and/or tooling.

Their machine shop just isn't paying attention to details. And the sad thing is people have been bitching about their receivers but DSA simply doesn't care. It seems that way, anyway........:sad:

embatp
July 28, 2017, 22:41
Mark....I know these issues have been found on receivers that came in with kits for builds.....but will repairing these receivers be a service you may provide in the future to owners of receivers in these serial ranges?

G3isMe
July 29, 2017, 07:13
Thanks for posting this review. What is really disconcerting is the problems you have identified look like they could have been lifted from my build journals. I have had these very same problems on almost all of my newer DSA non-F receivers. ......:sad:..

.

gunplumber
July 29, 2017, 09:32
Mark....I know these issues have been found on receivers that came in with kits for builds.....but will repairing these receivers be a service you may provide in the future to owners of receivers in these serial ranges?

I don't know, because I have to do the build to find the problems. If it's already barreled, then I have to pull the barrel, which is more work than starting with a virgin build. So I don't know that I can do it for less than the cost of a complete build. It would start at the $350 rebuild price.

What has been helpful about doing them in sequence, and writing everything down (instead of just cursing, sputtering, and kicking the wall), is that now I can anticipate problems, rather than discovering them at the testfire range and losing all that work.

I have not yet charged extra for DSA builds, but it looks like I'm either going to have a "Out-of-spec DSA surcharge" or charge everyone more and then offer a discount for IMBELs, LMTs, or other quality in-spec receivers. It is currently costing me over $150 in shop time - above the price of the build - to correct or work around DSA's defects. And that does not count the days of experimenting I did to work out these techniques. I can't continue to eat those expenses.

GF suggested last night, that a pattern of defects across multiple people in multiple states, is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen. But I don't want DSA sued out of business for their defective crap - I want their defective crap fixed!

And the part that has me so angry and frustrated and disappointed, is I perform all these checks in 5 minutes on a virgin receiver, with a couple factory parts, and a few home-made gauges. Just like I taught Entreprise when they flew out to have me evaluate their last receiver run. I gave them all the different GO/NOGO options for checking a receiver. Nothing fancy, just methodical and disciplined procedures. But they apparently never bothered to use them!

While quality control checks will reveal problems, they don't change The Chicago Way. DSA needs a cultural change, starting with Dave. He has knowingly and willingly shipped defective products for a long time. Nothing is going to change until the man at the top is replaced by someone with integrity. And if the board of directors is unwilling to do that (because they too represent The Chicago Way), there will be no change.

Or someone else needs to come along and make good receivers. But I doubt it would be profitable anymore. But any serious contender can have all the tech support I've collected over the years.

idsubgun
July 29, 2017, 10:56
What's sad is most of these issues, if not all, are so easily fixed by program tweaking, or using a different tool, or making sure the tool has new inserts, etc., etc.

Really easy fixes that should be done on EVERY part that machine shop makes. These are daily things a machinist does to make good parts!

Hell, give me a few grand in store credit, and I'll drive up there and straighten out their bullshit! It could be that DSA is signing off on these parts and the machine shop doesn't even know they are bad.

OLDMANPBK
July 29, 2017, 11:05
I have a feeling that DSA knows that the parts are bad and they're selling them anyway. That's pisses me off more than anything. That's the essence of "the Chicago way".

embatp
July 29, 2017, 12:42
I have a feeling that DSA knows that the parts are bad and they're selling them anyway. That's pisses me off more than anything. That's the essence of "the Chicago way".

I wonder if they are making receivers that "their" parts or the ones they are using (dsa mags/barrels/inch bolts) "fit"...

OLDMANPBK
July 29, 2017, 12:53
Good question. It would be nice if they'd let us know. Maybe in some cases but there's a lot of stuff reported that's just plain bad QC.

OLDMANPBK
July 29, 2017, 13:27
An adage that I love and fits this case well is "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity..... but don't rule out malice". So we seem to have two choices here. :)

1911Ron
July 29, 2017, 13:37
I wonder if they are making receivers that "their" parts or the ones they are using (dsa mags/barrels/inch bolts) "fit"...

If i am reading Marks findings/observations correctly, even using DSA parts or mags they have fitment issues (DSA 30rnd mags i've heard are GTG so...) so it would seem just poor machining and QC (or lack there of) to be the problem.

I have heard Coonan has a gap at the front between the bolt and the receiver, are they the same? I.E do they both have this "step/extra material" ?

357ross
July 29, 2017, 13:53
Just a shot in the dark here, but is there any possibility that some gov contracts came with some strings attached? I don't know but it seems whenever a firearm manufacturer gets any gov work, their quality control on items sold to the pubic goes into the toilet.

1911Ron
July 29, 2017, 14:21
Just a shot in the dark here, but is there any possibility that some gov contracts came with some strings attached? I don't know but it seems whenever a firearm manufacturer gets any gov work, their quality control on items sold to the pubic goes into the toilet.

MILSPEC does not mean what people believe it to mean, it means what is the least we have to do in order for it to work and not blow up on us. Remember the lowest bidder gets the contract because they found a way to cut costs in order to get a product out the door, so somethings go by the way side, overlooking some QC items, cheapest raw materials, cheapest metallurgy that barely will hold up, the list goes on and on.

FN FNG
July 29, 2017, 14:45
This makes me angry to see. I dont even understand how this happens when you have set tools and a machining program. Its like they broke tools and said **** it and replaced it with the next drill or completely skipped steps. Its not like these are individualy machined in a mill vice, they are bolted into fixtures and have an established program machine them to completion.

lew
July 30, 2017, 13:22
Thanks for the effort, Mark. Maybe this will be the thorn in their ass that gets them to shape up, but I suspect they'll carry on as-normal.

oleblu72
July 30, 2017, 14:25
This makes me angry to see. I dont even understand how this happens when you have set tools and a machining program. Its like they broke tools and said **** it and replaced it with the next drill or completely skipped steps. Its not like these are individualy machined in a mill vice, they are bolted into fixtures and have an established program machine them to completion.


This kind of work place screwing off by the employee would get them fired by the company anywhere else.

Mark

preston1026
July 30, 2017, 22:59
Interesting that lone 264 locking shoulder; maybe 256/7 is better than those 252's needed right after the switch to in house I guess.... :facepalm:

gunplumber
July 31, 2017, 07:57
Interesting that lone 264 locking shoulder;

That was the overtimed DSA US made G1 barrel (probably made for the out of spec, under-timed receivers). All others were factory barrels and the HS was consistent and in a good range - much better than those .249-.250.

adamweinerog
July 31, 2017, 16:58
Thanks for all the info Mark. Man it's annoying that they aren't addressing these issues. Sad. :facepalm:

preston1026
July 31, 2017, 20:54
That was the overtimed DSA US made G1 barrel (probably made for the out of spec, under-timed receivers). All others were factory barrels and the HS was consistent and in a good range - much better than those .249-.250.

that makes sense, there must be a ton of unmolested .261 ls out there

gunplumber
August 04, 2017, 16:27
All but one passed testfire. All required short front sights - #0 or #1. This pattern leads me to believe there is a dimensional issue with lockup. Whether forward of the hinge is too high, or aft the hinge is too low, I don't know.

Added pics of the finished rifles.

AspektZA
August 04, 2017, 20:42
Have you had any trouble with the forged South African R1 clone receivers, GP?

yellowhand
August 04, 2017, 22:35
Just reading and learning here.

hkshooter
August 05, 2017, 06:39
Thanks, Mark, for all the time and work you've put into these reviews. DSA should be thanking you for free trouble shooting. But we know how that'll go and what they'll do with the info.

gunplumber
August 08, 2017, 17:37
Added R 1046 Type 1 "F"

lew
August 09, 2017, 12:06
DSA Receiver Review
locking shoulder dogleg: pass (barely). Still slightly tapered from .305 to .291. .007 is a lot for an interference fit, so I sanded the locking shoulder instead of machining the recess.


This is the same problem I had on both of my R1 receivers- R1034 and R1054. I had DSA take care of the issue on both, which they did, to their credit.

gunplumber
August 09, 2017, 13:12
This is the same problem I had on both of my R1 receivers- R1034 and R1054.

But according to R1 Shooter's drunken ravings on Facebook - my review is "bullshit". How is it possible for you to have the same problem? (sarcasm)

That being said, the F marked R series and type 1s are noticeably superior to the type 2s, which are also superior to the type 3s.

lew
August 10, 2017, 12:26
But according to R1 Shooter's drunken ravings on Facebook - my review is "bullshit". How is it possible for you to have the same problem? (sarcasm)

That being said, the F marked R series and type 1s are noticeably superior to the type 2s, which are also superior to the type 3s.

Yeah, well what the hell do you know? :D

It's amazing that R1Shooter still thinks folks like us want to see DSA tank when the very opposite is the intention. His antics remind me of Baghdad Bob.

AspektZA
August 10, 2017, 12:57
Yeah, well what the hell do you know? :D

It's amazing that R1Shooter still thinks folks like us want to see DSA tank when the very opposite is the intention. His antics remind me of Baghdad Bob.

I think it illustrates a deep problem with US manufacturing.

American labor costs are high, but automated machines have identical costs where ever they are.

A product like a cloned firearms receiver with intricate details is something that can't necessarily be 100% automated to reduce labor costs.

DSA doesn't want to pay high labor costs for QC, finishing work, etc., and instead has left it up to the mad souls who use their parts.

US manufacturers have to automate as much as possible to be competitve, but that requires significant investment - something DSA might not necessarily be pursuing since their market is relatively captive.

357ross
August 10, 2017, 18:03
I think in this case dsa has made a decision to let the fal parts go. The machinery to make receivers is probably wearing out, and it wouldn't make economic sense to spend money on a dying market. Besides, there are lucrative government contracts to think about. Dsa's quality control (and Coonans for that matter) decline is very predictable.

gunplumber
August 10, 2017, 19:21
Problem is, these guys with "lucrative government contracts" to hand out, also can read the internet. DSA's continued poor quality control and "screw you" attitude may cost them a "lucrative government contract".

RG Coburn
August 10, 2017, 22:32
Wouldn't all the internal measurements on a metric receiver be pretty much all the same? I mean,between the various types,aren't they pretty much the same other than markings and how they profile the outside lines,between the types I,II,and III ? I wonder why they don't use the same machining program to carve all in innerds to the right measure,and use another for the outside profiling work,for the individual type or style?
Maybe I'm way out there,not an expert by any means,but it seems like metric is metric is metric,regardless the type. Should be the same,no?

gunplumber
August 11, 2017, 07:48
Wouldn't all the internal measurements on a metric receiver be pretty much all the same? I mean,between the various types,aren't they pretty much the same other than markings and how they profile the outside lines,between the types I,II,and III ? I wonder why they don't use the same machining program to carve all in innerds to the right measure,and use another for the outside profiling work,for the individual type or style?
Maybe I'm way out there,not an expert by any means,but it seems like metric is metric is metric,regardless the type. Should be the same,no?

Yes, FAL is FAL. There are several variations of internal lightening/sand cuts, but I agree - one would think they'd be the same other than lightening/sand cuts.

It appears they leave much as cast, with no finish machining inside.

Trypcil
August 11, 2017, 09:31
I wonder if DSA staff get pissed at their own observations of the internal wranglings of their employers standards. Do the assemblers of their own rifles come up with the same issues of fitment? Who is the master, the journeymen and the apprentice - and who gets machine time? I can imagine that the 'masters' over see the 'journeymen' doing the 'main' work, and the apprentices learn on the small stuff, and the civilian receivers. QC is of 'a sell it and see' mindset!
Personally I'd be happy if they made the claim - "some machining maybe required", and dropped the price by $150.00 - then a 2, out of 3 might be a good gamble!:D

RG Coburn
August 11, 2017, 20:02
Thanks for confirming my theory,GP. I have to imagine they must have the same problems everybody else has when putting together the completed rifles they sell,and one would think management would be bleeding out their eyes with all the extra man-hours they would have to invest in getting these units to run right. They have (or had) the right dimensions,once,when they produced the coveted DS prefix units. Why not simply enter that data/program back into whatever CNC machines they use,and produce units of uniformity?

308/223shooter
September 07, 2017, 21:28
Have a friends DSA built para carbine, which he bought from a major retail sporting goods store. It looks new, but has been fired some from the carbon on the gas piston facce. Serial DS32XXX. Wouldn't feed till I polished the parking out of the chamber, and still tends to fail to go into battery most times, but only when feeding a cartridge. It cycles by hand just fine, . The para guide rod was flush with the back of the scope mount cover, but still broke on the 4th round. Found the gas piston binding in the tube at the block, looked like it'd been threaded in too tight before backing off. It wasn't extreme, but enough I thought it might cause a problem so I fixed it. The guy called DSA, and they asked about what mags he's using. Hhmmmm, wonder why? Also found the para recoil springs and inside hole in the carrier rusty, so I set them aside and have been using a Imbel lower and bolt carrier for testing, and I hope to have it running for him by this weekend. He's a older Veteran, who did me a sort of favour awhile back, so I'm paying it forward.
Just the same, if DSA would get their shyte together, this thread wouldn't exist.

gunplumber
September 08, 2017, 09:13
and they asked about what mags he's using. Hhmmmm, wonder why?

hahahahaha.

308/223shooter
September 08, 2017, 12:54
Ok, dsa is going to take it back in for repair. Hope you don't mind Mark, but posting this for a timeline. Let's see how long before it's returned, and if they actualy repair it.

gunplumber
September 08, 2017, 13:48
No problem. I've been calling out defects in DSA's products for years and they've been ambivalent at best - preferring spin control to fixing the problems. And so Dave Selvagio continued to knowingly and willingly sell these defective products. (Keep an eye on that phrase, you're going to see a lot more of it soon).

Apparently, DSA did not expect their potential customers to do any research, but to blindly swallow bullshit from people like their representative (paid liar) R1shooter (Daniel Lombard). Perhaps someone ready to hand out a "lucrative government contract" has had second thoughts, after reading my well documented analysis, and the reports from my fellow enthusiasts that confirm my observations.

Recent events suggest that I've finally gotten their attention - although their reaction is going to cost them far more than simply fixing their shit. These are going to be "interesting times."

brunop
September 08, 2017, 14:28
Mark -

I've been arguing for years that you should be a Mod here in the gunsmithing sub-forum as you requested/offered.

Thanks for sharing publicly the documentation you've done over the years. Big service to the community, and a bitchin' straight jab to the eye of the douchenozzles who would (continue to) rip us off.

OLDMANPBK
September 08, 2017, 14:47
Recent events suggest that I've finally gotten their attention - although their reaction is going to cost them far more than simply fixing their shit. These are going to be "interesting times."

It sounds like DSA is trying to shoot the messenger. :facepalm:

gunplumber
September 09, 2017, 10:32
It sounds like DSA is trying to shoot the messenger. :facepalm:

Yep. Dave is being very foolish. Thus far I've only been growling. Now he is threatening me with legal action for "defamation". My sister is an attorney, and my GF also went to law school (hasn't taken the AZ Bar yet). And I'm pretty well educated too, although my background is in international law and national security. Does this dumbass really think that a grammar nazi like myself doesn't know exactly what I'm writing? Does he think I can't back up every word?

GF suggests "Bring it, Bitches!" should only be part of the response, and not the whole response.

So I spent yesterday morning doing a quick search on DSA's defective products, when they were first aware of them, and how long after they continued to sell them - holy shit! There were dozens of pages of stuff I'd forgotten about.

So yeah, this attempt to silence and intimidate me is going to have the opposite effect. And the publicity is going to cost DSA dearly. Which is too bad. Because until now, I only wanted to help them produce a good receiver, even if I had to shame them into doing so.

Oh, and now R1Shooter is challenging me to a fist fight. Hahahahahahha. Yep. Interesting times.

OLDMANPBK
September 09, 2017, 11:46
This is sad and infuriating at the same time. DSA's solution to their obvious QC problems is a lawsuit and a fistfight . Well, I can't buy fewer of their products than I already do but I would donate to the GP legal defense fund if need be.

Trypcil
September 09, 2017, 12:06
Lets hope that Dan Coonan is paying attention!

yellowhand
September 09, 2017, 12:18
""Oh, and now R1Shooter is challenging me to a fist fight. Hahahahahahha. Yep. Interesting times.""

Damn, between that Aussi/Croc fellow that wants to use ya as a target, and now this dick weed that wants to fist fight, these folks are like vampires, in that they can't handle a little sunlight on their brand of bull shit.:facepalm:

When one of them challenge you to a duel @ 10 paces, let me know, I got a long tailed black coat somewhere here, but it will need dry cleaning, but ya can borrow it.:D

Thorack
September 09, 2017, 12:59
Yeah,

Its sad when the only receiver maker that worked with GP to make a better product Enterprise, is now out of business.

Thorack

357ross
September 09, 2017, 16:19
Is R1 shooter the owner of dsa? If he were an employee of dsa, why does he take criticism of company product so personally?

Thorack
September 09, 2017, 19:49
Well,

Dan (R1 Shooter) is the DSA Primary Foreign Sales Rep.

Thorack

slojet100
September 24, 2017, 16:57
Hi Guys, I'm new to all of this so here it goes. My DSA Forged R receiver seems to be pretty good. Barrel Timed 1100 , had to re-tap screw for mag lock bolt release Fit dust cover, same problem gunplumber stated about the locking lever position . I tried three lowers and found one that locks tight but has no more room to wear. Do they make an over size lock as am confused as to what to do if it loosens up. Locking shoulder dog leg hole is a little tapered but I can resolve easily, of course I need a .252 sized locking shoulder so if someone has one for sale let me know. Also mag well is a little tight at both sides . The mags I have work but are a little difficult to slide in. I Can polish the sides of the mag well but don't know if I should. Any Ideas for these problems. My other cast rifle: DSA resolved the problems for me but it shoots low . I filed the front sight but need to test fire. So far nothing major just work. Hopefully the rest will go ok

FriendBesto
September 24, 2017, 18:01
North Freedom Engineering has oversized frame locks.

slojet100
September 24, 2017, 19:44
Thanks I appreciate that info
Frank

gunplumber
September 25, 2017, 09:11
North Freedom Engineering has oversized frame locks.

Excellent product. John had better do another run, because every Coonan I've done this month has required one, as well as most of the DSAs.

slojet100
September 25, 2017, 14:57
Mark Do you use the .010 or .020 oversize?

gunplumber
September 25, 2017, 15:03
It depends

If the receiver lock lever is touching the grip (horizontal) or touching the recoil plate (vertical), and has no movement; that is, it is hard against it, it is usually an OS-2.

If it is touching but can be pushed up or back slightly, or is just barely not touching, then an OS-1

slojet100
September 25, 2017, 16:05
Great that gives me a good idea of what to look for
Thanks Mark

gunplumber
September 26, 2017, 14:01
added 34704, type 2 "F"

Sword of Justice
October 22, 2017, 16:05
Yes ,I am. Newbie. But that dint keep me from reading all the threads while I waited a month to be allowed to post. It seems to me that there are 2 groups in this forum. 1 who loveFALS and 1 who love to criticize every thing. There is no upside to all this negativity.However the critisisers may have ultirior motives. Just ask yourself who profits from running down the small companies that try and manufacture a gun named FAL.We ball know it's not the best gun but we like it because it's interesting,it's different,it has history,and if you are so inclined you build one.But there are many of us who do not build our own FALs,in fact we are the majority.But yet a small vocal minority ,who build a few guns in their remotely located yurts cr itisize the guys who are just a few steps ahead of them.They crushed Enterprise ,they are crushing Conan, and attempting to crush DSA. At this point as yourself "Who profited from this who bought up all the Enterprise stuff and sold it. Was it the same people who criticized them."And if I read Chicago Way" one more time then every one of my posts will be labeled as such.And I will refer to this negative cancer as PLUMBER'S POSSE?Yeah some of you know what you are talking about,but most of it is out of ignorance.These company's that you criticize don't make 2,3,23,230 guns a year they make thousands,so if a few turds make into your hands when you are trying to build a $ 1000 gun for $500 cause they still try to cater to the community from which they sprang ,do the right thing and give them the break you would want and stop being so nasty that the normal response is to tell you to pound sand or put up your fists.That my friends and FAL fans is the HUMAN WAY! Unless of course you are seeking to profit from someone else's mistakes or just a bitter old cretin who revels in the misery he causes others.

idsubgun
October 22, 2017, 16:59
Yes ,I am. Newbie. But that dint keep me from reading all the threads while I waited a month to be allowed to post. It seems to me that there are 2 groups in this forum. 1 who loveFALS and 1 who love to criticize every thing. There is no upside to all this negativity.However the critisisers may have ultirior motives. Just ask yourself who profits from running down the small companies that try and manufacture a gun named FAL.We ball know it's not the best gun but we like it because it's interesting,it's different,it has history,and if you are so inclined you build one.But there are many of us who do not build our own FALs,in fact we are the majority.But yet a small vocal minority ,who build a few guns in their remotely located yurts cr itisize the guys who are just a few steps ahead of them.They crushed Enterprise ,they are crushing Conan, and attempting to crush DSA. At this point as yourself "Who profited from this who bought up all the Enterprise stuff and sold it. Was it the same people who criticized them."And if I read Chicago Way" one more time then every one of my posts will be labeled as such.And I will refer to this negative cancer as PLUMBER'S POSSE?Yeah some of you know what you are talking about,but most of it is out of ignorance.These company's that you criticize don't make 2,3,23,230 guns a year they make thousands,so if a few turds make into your hands when you are trying to build a $ 1000 gun for $500 cause they still try to cater to the community from which they sprang ,do the right thing and give them the break you would want and stop being so nasty that the normal response is to tell you to pound sand or put up your fists.That my friends and FAL fans is the HUMAN WAY! Unless of course you are seeking to profit from someone else's mistakes or just a bitter old cretin who revels in the misery he causes others.

.


:popcorn:



.

308/223shooter
October 22, 2017, 17:52
You know mate, if Entreprise, Coonan AND DSA would provide the product they advertise, these threads wouldn't bloody well exiists, would they?
Tell Dave to get his QC staff heads out of their arse and do what they're paid to do, and we'll quit bitching about thier receivers issues.

1911Ron
October 22, 2017, 18:13
[QUOTE=Sword of Justice;4492858]Yes ,I am. Newbie. But that dint keep me from reading all the threads while I waited a month to be allowed to post. It seems to me that there are 2 groups in this forum. 1 who loveFALS and 1 who love to criticize every thing. There is no upside to all this negativity.However the critisisers may have ultirior motives. Just ask yourself who profits from running down the small companies that try and manufacture a gun named FAL.We ball know it's not the best gun but we like it because it's interesting,it's different,it has history,and if you are so inclined you build one.But there are many of us who do not build our own FALs,in fact we are the majority.But yet a small vocal minority ,who build a few guns in their remotely located yurts cr itisize the guys who are just a few steps ahead of them.They crushed Enterprise ,they are crushing Conan, and attempting to crush DSA. At this point as yourself "Who profited from this who bought up all the Enterprise stuff and sold it. Was it the same people who criticized them."And if I read Chicago Way" one more time then every one of my posts will be labeled as such.And I will refer to this negative cancer as PLUMBER'S POSSE?Yeah some of you know what you are talking about,but most of it is out of ignorance.These company's that you criticize don't make 2,3,23,230 guns a year they make thousands,so if a few turds make into your hands when you are trying to build a $ 1000 gun for $500 cause they still try to cater to the community from which they sprang ,do the right thing and give them the break you would want and stop being so nasty that the normal response is to tell you to pound sand or put up your fists.That my friends and FAL fans is the HUMAN WAY! Unless of course you are seeking to profit from someone else's mistakes or just a bitter old cretin who revels in the misery he causes others.[/QUOTE
:spew:

nwobhm
October 22, 2017, 18:30
FALaholic #: 80130
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Gary,Indiana

How is the weather in Gary, Indiana? :wink:

jugrunner
October 22, 2017, 18:51
2nd post .. smells of a shill from our fav. vendor .. :bullcrap:

my apology to all the other "shills" ..

G3isMe
October 22, 2017, 22:59
2nd post .. smells of a shill from our fav. vendor .. :bullcrap:

my apology to all the other "shills" ..

LMAO, was unfortunately thinking the same thing. I wonder where their IP address is really located. I was hoping this was a schill as I would hate to think that someone actually has such a poor spelling ability. ....:facepalm...::facepalm:


.

yellowhand
October 22, 2017, 23:43
Infiltrator???? :wink:

hkshooter
October 23, 2017, 07:59
Infiltrator???? :wink:

Douche nozzle?

gunplumber
October 23, 2017, 08:25
I missed the part where Sword of Justice pointed out a factual error in my thoroughly documented review and analysis.

These company's that you criticize don't make 2,3,23,230 guns a year they make thousands,so if a few turds make into your hands when you are trying to build a $ 1000 gun for $500

actually, "they" don't. As myself and others called out the disgraced "too corrupt for Chicago PD" and "fake commando stolen valor" R1shooter for his blatant lies on DSArms production numbers. And his predecessor before that. Well, it was either a blatant lie to us, or Dave's lying to Taxes and Trade Bureau of the Federal Government.

Also, it's not " a few turds". As you can see, it is systemic and crosses several serial number ranges of four different models. And the gross defects could be discovered with the most rudimentary quality control check. Which means DSA is wholly incompetent and cannot manage the most simple QC check, like "hey, does a mag fit?". Or they know the shit's defective and they sell it anyway. Since DSA has a long history of knowingly selling defective parts, I must assume the latter. It's The Chicago Way

And what kind of person tries to make a $1000 rifle for $500? One who has integrity, pride in workmanship, and professional competence? Or a boob with none of the above? And what does price have to do with anything? I've not said a word about the price of any company's products, as it is irrelevant to whether a factory mag will fit or not! While I understand that a defective piece-of-shit $500 receiver is more distressing than a defective piece-of-shit $300 receiver, it really doesn't factor into my meticulous analysis.


.

slavicshooter
October 23, 2017, 09:18
"Gunplumber said boob". Huh huh huh heh heh huh huh!
https://s1.postimg.org/22cp6a9laj/Screenshot_2016-07-21-23-03-18-1_zpsj069ma9w.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/22cp6a9laj/)

oleblu72
October 23, 2017, 17:31
Boobies.:love:

Mark

thedrickel
October 23, 2017, 23:41
Yes ,I am. Newbie. But that dint keep me from reading all the threads while I waited a month to be allowed to post. It seems to me that there are 2 groups in this forum. 1 who loveFALS and 1 who love to criticize every thing. There is no upside to all this negativity.However the critisisers may have ultirior motives. Just ask yourself who profits from running down the small companies that try and manufacture a gun named FAL.We ball know it's not the best gun but we like it because it's interesting,it's different,it has history,and if you are so inclined you build one.But there are many of us who do not build our own FALs,in fact we are the majority.But yet a small vocal minority ,who build a few guns in their remotely located yurts cr itisize the guys who are just a few steps ahead of them.They crushed Enterprise ,they are crushing Conan, and attempting to crush DSA. At this point as yourself "Who profited from this who bought up all the Enterprise stuff and sold it. Was it the same people who criticized them."And if I read Chicago Way" one more time then every one of my posts will be labeled as such.And I will refer to this negative cancer as PLUMBER'S POSSE?Yeah some of you know what you are talking about,but most of it is out of ignorance.These company's that you criticize don't make 2,3,23,230 guns a year they make thousands,so if a few turds make into your hands when you are trying to build a $ 1000 gun for $500 cause they still try to cater to the community from which they sprang ,do the right thing and give them the break you would want and stop being so nasty that the normal response is to tell you to pound sand or put up your fists.That my friends and FAL fans is the HUMAN WAY! Unless of course you are seeking to profit from someone else's mistakes or just a bitter old cretin who revels in the misery he causes others.

Did you pass 4th grade?

Trypcil
October 24, 2017, 02:48
You realise by default, that you, Sword of Justice - fall into the second category that you describe - apart from that, quite the splash!!!! Welcome aboard! :rofl:

Sword of Justice
October 24, 2017, 07:59
oops I misspelled Pussy again.Go back to your yurts and cobble up your scabs and call them FALs all you want. My spelling sucks cause I figger it would be easier for you to understand.Make your own f ing receivers you dill weeds. Who bought up the Enterpise crap after disparaging it out of business? And the happily blessed it as magically better and sells it?Who is after Coonan and DSA ? See : no Enterprise,no Coonan,No Dsa, well then if we want FAL who do we have to go to? It is obvious what's going on here.You have been overrun by a narcissistic greedy sociopath and his groveling minions.Oh and bouncing hillbilly icon guy,you are the bitter old cretin that revels in the misery of others I referred to in my first post.God I hope they don't leave you alone with children!

idsubgun
October 24, 2017, 08:19
oops I misspelled Pussy again.Go back to your yurts and cobble up your scabs and call them FALs all you want. My spelling sucks cause I figger it would be easier for you to understand.Make your own f ing receivers you dill weeds. Who bought up the Enterpise crap after disparaging it out of business? And the happily blessed it as magically better and sells it?Who is after Coonan and DSA ? See : no Enterprise,no Coonan,No Dsa, well then if we want FAL who do we have to go to? It is obvious what's going on here.You have been overrun by a narcissistic greedy sociopath and his groveling minions.Oh and bouncing hillbilly icon guy,you are the bitter old cretin that revels in the misery of others I referred to in my first post.God I hope they don't leave you alone with children!

If you are the one doing QC for DSA, it's no wonder they can't make a decent receiver.

Listen fool, DSA made good receivers in beginning. No sure what happened but something did. Maybe someone needs to re-hire the old QC guy, or if he's still there, fire him and hire a new one!

I did that work for 33 years in tool & die shops. For a fee, I'll be happy to set you guys straight, and get quality DSA receivers on the market again.

BUT, you would have to do exactly what I say, and if that means personnel need to be fired, then that's what it means.
You've got a HUGE black eye in the FAL world so someone needs to smarten up and take command of your QC.


.

Sword of Justice
October 24, 2017, 08:56
4th grade?isthat what you matriculated at?systematic? The nazis were systematic too! Money? Well iam going to start to have to charge more for these receiver issues,sounds like money to me.Fool? You are going to have to do what I say! Sounds like you have control issues.You guys are ruining the forum,which should be a place to have fun,exchange useful informatio,promote our hobby and create community.But no. Instead every post every thread is infiltrated with vitriol,turning off newbies alienating oldies and showing the rest of the gun community that FAL people are not to be trusted.Gun Plumber and his Posse need to be put in check.Obvously they have a nefarious agenda which does not benefit all members of the forum. Oh ps fool, you and cranks like you is why businesses have fled America and move there manufacturing off shore cause they needed to make products that they could sell for a profit.which means QC turns out an acceptable amount of defects not 0%.Ibet they had a big party when you retired!

idsubgun
October 24, 2017, 09:10
4th grade?isthat what you matriculated at?systematic? The nazis were systematic too! Money? Well iam going to start to have to charge more for these receiver issues,sounds like money to me.Fool? You are going to have to do what I say! Sounds like you have control issues.You guys are ruining the forum,which should be a place to have fun,exchange useful informatio,promote our hobby and create community.But no. Instead every post every thread is infiltrated with vitriol,turning off newbies alienating oldies and showing the rest of the gun community that FAL people are not to be trusted.Gun Plumber and his Posse need to be put in check.Obvously they have a nefarious agenda which does not benefit all members of the forum. Oh ps fool, you and cranks like you is why businesses have fled America and move there manufacturing off shore cause they needed to make products that they could sell for a profit.which means QC turns out an acceptable amount of defects not 0%.Ibet they had a big party when you retired!

.

Never mind, you win. I can't argue with an idiot. :facepalm:

Bonac9
October 24, 2017, 09:10
Sword of Justice??? Give me a break! Pretty full of yourself aren't you?

"Yes ,I am. Newbie. But that dint keep me from reading all the threads while I waited a month to be allowed to post."

Well if you read all the threads in a month, what is that 15 years worth, you are clearly a much better reader than writer!

ftierson
October 24, 2017, 10:25
Just when you think that you've heard everything... :)

You can't make this shit up...

Forrest

slavicshooter
October 24, 2017, 11:00
https://s1.postimg.org/51a26up28r/Screenshot_2016-05-19-20-48-57-1_zpsax6nymfa.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/51a26up28r/)~ss:whistling:

oleblu72
October 24, 2017, 11:16
https://s1.postimg.org/51a26up28r/Screenshot_2016-05-19-20-48-57-1_zpsax6nymfa.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/51a26up28r/)~ss:whistling:


Peace, love & Miss Poopy Pants.:smile:

Mark

yellowhand
October 24, 2017, 12:16
An idiot infiltrator!:rofl:

308/223shooter
October 24, 2017, 12:39
To Sword Of In-justice, no one complained about your bosses receivers, till he quit caring about the quality of what he sold to US, his customers. Side stepping 922[r] regulations by milling off imported parts proof marks, then stamping them "made in USA" or even stamping DSA on them, to miss lead the buyer into thinking he'd bought a DSA manufactured part. At a time when they were charging what, twenty, thirty bucks for a HTS set you could buy anywhere else for ten or twelve? Not to mention the barrel fiasco.
If their parts were truly "made to original Styer blue prints" then the receivers would not need to be "re-worked" to get them to function. I'm not a gun smith, I'm a bloke who likes to build my own FALs. I help others build their kits or get their FALs running. Mark IS a professional gun smith, who knows what the fook he's doing. And yes, he can be a right ass, but it's his business, he has the right to be however he chooses. obviously if he runs all the FAL receiver manufacturers out of business, he'll loose income. See he makes income from fixing the total shit that's being sold to us these days.
If it turns out that you are by chance a certain DSA employee, I'd think you'd get the ban hammer for having multiple user I.D.s, which I believe is against forum rules. Why not do this for me. Buy one of the DSA or Coonan receivers that're now available, and see how easy it is to built on it with a surplus kit. Then get back to us and let us know how well it worked out for you.

Sword of Justice
October 24, 2017, 18:54
You are just a Bloke.Did you mean Joke? go makes money by fixing this stuff ,so why would he says it's ok?Like in the old days at the full service gas station, they'd check your oil for free and nick your fan belt for the return business.So you just like to build guns for yourself and other people, but whine when your 40 year old pos parts kit doesn't fit on the one new part you have to buy.And then some Branch Davidson Bastard rises out of the dessert Sand and says it's Dave's fault. And you fal on your face crying out I Am saved the gp can fix all this shit. You Pussy Patriots are all EVIL.Who the F would make your crappy L 1A1 inch ******* receivers for you , who would go to ring europ to buy 60 year old technology ,bring it back and try to make it work, who'd buy all the Argy crap sort clean it and do the deal so that thr imbicle uppers and lowers were not destroyed and you could get your greasy little hands on them. DSADID. So rather than worship at the feet of a greedy narcissistic sociopath who only wants to monopolize the shrinking FAL market by driving out the next guys in line and then go in and buy up the scraps so he can fix them and sell them to his sycophants you should thank DSA for saving this crappy huge ass pos rifle that no one wanted anymore . But you won't so do us all a favor and crawl back into your creepy little hidiholes . Oh as to full of myself, well it's easy when I am right. As for mr spell check .go beat up on some school kids you pin dick bully.if youre wrong the criticize spelling stratagem is pedantic and boring. And mr conspiracy theory go watch the X Files and pretend your Moulder and not fing Scully.Maybe I was put here by God to point out your Evilness. I don't need 2 identities 1 is enough to speak the truth. Now all of you start being nice or I will continue with calling out your crap.Ps there are a lot of people that have purchased DSA FALs and they like them cause they work,They are fun and they are different,they also out number your cobbled together group,and they have supported my position and my public castigation of your ill mannered participation on this forum. oh one more thing to gp :The word "integrity" should not come off your tongue unless preceded by the words "I can't get me no" but never followed by "but I try"You are in this for the money and any denial or distraction is just plain old deceit . Oh where was the old pedofile,I expected to see his hopping hillbilly all over this.pss to I give up you win cause you are an idiot Well winning is winning and at least I did not loose to an idiot.i overwhelmed a guilty moron. I could go on and on but I am going to put a new scope on a new rifle which is what this forum is supposed to be about.Im giving you a chance here ,you could ask what kind of scope whatever kind of rifle ,why did you buy it do you think it will be fun when are you going to shoot it,where are you gonna shoot it etc that's what belongs on a gun forum. Instead there will be an interrogation as what kind of receiver is it why won't you tell me is it a kryptonite dsa receiver , only I can fix those cause they purposely sell defective parts so I can systematically schedule all the defects and make a you tube video stuffing 24 magazines into 14 rifles saying FAil over and over again so that any one watching thinks it's caught in a feedback loop and it is some sort of PeterSellers impersonation or an inside joke for theFAL community or that the rifle is called a FAIL.Or is it stamped or milled or cast, cause what ever it is we think it sucks and DSA made it.But every time someone other than you dillweeds sends their gun in to be fixed they report ,oh surprise they fixed it.So maybe the reason they did not fix yours was you never had one in the first place,you never sent it in, you were a complete ass to them when you sent in, or omg they made a mistake,and of course since gp doesn't make mistakes DSA is a pos.This is what happens when you can only read rage threads on a forum for a month.

308/223shooter
October 24, 2017, 19:05
You are just a Bloke.Did you mean Joke? go makes money by fixing this stuff ,so why would he says it's ok?Like in the old days at the full service gas station, they'd check your oil for free and nick your fan belt for the return business.So you just like to build guns for yourself and other people, but whine when your 40 year old pos parts kit doesn't fit on the one new part you have to buy.And then some Branch Davidson Bastard rises out of the dessert Sand and says it's Dave's fault. And you fal on your face crying out I Am saved the gp can fix all this shit. You Pussy Patriots are all EVIL.Who the F would make your crappy L 1A1 inch ******* receivers for you , who would go to ring europ to buy 60 year old technology ,bring it back and try to make it work, who'd buy all the Argy crap sort clean it and do the deal so that thr imbicle uppers and lowers were not destroyed and you could get your greasy little hands on them. DSADID. So rather than worship at the feet of a greedy narcissistic sociopath who only wants to monopolize the shrinking FAL market by driving out the next guys in line and then go in and buy up the scraps so he can fix them and sell them to his sycophants you should thank DSA for saving this crappy huge ass pos rifle that no one wanted anymore . But you won't so do us all a favor and crawl back into your creepy little hidiholes . Oh as to full of myself, well it's easy when I am right. As for mr spell check .go beat up on some school kids you pin dick bully.if youre wrong the criticize spelling stratagem is pedantic and boring. And mr conspiracy theory go watch the X Files and pretend your Moulder and not fing Scully.Maybe I was put here by God to point out your Evilness. I don't need 2 identities 1 is enough to speak the truth. Now all of you start being nice or I will continue with calling out your crap.Ps there are a lot of people that have purchased DSA FALs and they like them cause they work,They are fun and they are different,they also out number your cobbled together group,and they have supported my position and my public castigation of your ill mannered participation on this forum. oh one more thing to gp :The word "integrity" should not come off your tongue unless preceded by the words "I can't get me no" but never followed by "but I try"You are in this for the money and any denial or distraction is just plain old deceit . Oh where was the old pedofile,I expected to see his hopping hillbilly all over this.pss to I give up you win cause you are an idiot Well winning is winning and at least I did not loose to an idiot.i overwhelmed a guilty moron. I could go on and on but I am going to put a new scope on a new rifle which is what this forum is supposed to be about.Im giving you a chance here ,you could ask what kind of scope whatever kind of rifle ,why did you buy it do you think it will be fun when are you going to shoot it,where are you gonna shoot it etc that's what belongs on a gun forum. Instead there will be an interrogation as what kind of receiver is it why won't you tell me is it a kryptonite dsa receiver , only I can fix those cause they purposely sell defective parts so I can systematically schedule all the defects and make a you tube video stuffing 24 magazines into 14 rifles saying FAil over and over again so that any one watching thinks it's caught in a feedback loop and it is some sort of PeterSellers impersonation or an inside joke for theFAL community or that the rifle is called a FAIL.Or is it stamped or milled or cast, cause what ever it is we think it sucks and DSA made it.But every time someone other than you dillweeds sends their gun in to be fixed they report ,oh surprise they fixed it.So maybe the reason they did not fix yours was you never had one in the first place,you never sent it in, you were a complete ass to them when you sent in, or omg they made a mistake,and of course since gp doesn't make mistakes DSA is a pos.This is what happens when you can only read rage threads on a forum for a month.


Yep, as I suspected. So Daniel, instead of posting all the shit you do, tell Dave if he wants his company's reputation back, quit selling defective product. That's all we, as customers, really want. I remember back when Dave started in the FAL business, things went well, and I recomended his receivers as at that time, they were the best doemestic made to be had. I can no longer recomend them, as they no longer are the best to be had.
As it is with everything else in America, if DSA quits manufacturing FALs altogether, anouther business will pick up the slack.
Walter Chow ran Entreprise out of business, no one else. Mark just picked up the inventory. I'm sure that really pissed Dave off, didn't it? When're you going to buy a current DSA receiver and do a build? Would be stellar to see a step by step build thread done by you.
Cheers mate.

yellowhand
October 24, 2017, 20:10
You are just a Bloke.Did you mean Joke? go makes money by fixing this stuff ,so why would he says it's ok?Like in the old days at the full service gas station, they'd check your oil for free and nick your fan belt for the return business.So you just like to build guns for yourself and other people, but whine when your 40 year old pos parts kit doesn't fit on the one new part you have to buy.And then some Branch Davidson Bastard rises out of the dessert Sand and says it's Dave's fault. And you fal on your face crying out I Am saved the gp can fix all this shit. You Pussy Patriots are all EVIL.Who the F would make your crappy L 1A1 inch ******* receivers for you , who would go to ring europ to buy 60 year old technology ,bring it back and try to make it work, who'd buy all the Argy crap sort clean it and do the deal so that thr imbicle uppers and lowers were not destroyed and you could get your greasy little hands on them. DSADID. So rather than worship at the feet of a greedy narcissistic sociopath who only wants to monopolize the shrinking FAL market by driving out the next guys in line and then go in and buy up the scraps so he can fix them and sell them to his sycophants you should thank DSA for saving this crappy huge ass pos rifle that no one wanted anymore . But you won't so do us all a favor and crawl back into your creepy little hidiholes . Oh as to full of myself, well it's easy when I am right. As for mr spell check .go beat up on some school kids you pin dick bully.if youre wrong the criticize spelling stratagem is pedantic and boring. And mr conspiracy theory go watch the X Files and pretend your Moulder and not fing Scully.Maybe I was put here by God to point out your Evilness. I don't need 2 identities 1 is enough to speak the truth. Now all of you start being nice or I will continue with calling out your crap.Ps there are a lot of people that have purchased DSA FALs and they like them cause they work,They are fun and they are different,they also out number your cobbled together group,and they have supported my position and my public castigation of your ill mannered participation on this forum. oh one more thing to gp :The word "integrity" should not come off your tongue unless preceded by the words "I can't get me no" but never followed by "but I try"You are in this for the money and any denial or distraction is just plain old deceit . Oh where was the old pedofile,I expected to see his hopping hillbilly all over this.pss to I give up you win cause you are an idiot Well winning is winning and at least I did not loose to an idiot.i overwhelmed a guilty moron. I could go on and on but I am going to put a new scope on a new rifle which is what this forum is supposed to be about.Im giving you a chance here ,you could ask what kind of scope whatever kind of rifle ,why did you buy it do you think it will be fun when are you going to shoot it,where are you gonna shoot it etc that's what belongs on a gun forum. Instead there will be an interrogation as what kind of receiver is it why won't you tell me is it a kryptonite dsa receiver , only I can fix those cause they purposely sell defective parts so I can systematically schedule all the defects and make a you tube video stuffing 24 magazines into 14 rifles saying FAil over and over again so that any one watching thinks it's caught in a feedback loop and it is some sort of PeterSellers impersonation or an inside joke for theFAL community or that the rifle is called a FAIL.Or is it stamped or milled or cast, cause what ever it is we think it sucks and DSA made it.But every time someone other than you dillweeds sends their gun in to be fixed they report ,oh surprise they fixed it.So maybe the reason they did not fix yours was you never had one in the first place,you never sent it in, you were a complete ass to them when you sent in, or omg they made a mistake,and of course since gp doesn't make mistakes DSA is a pos.This is what happens when you can only read rage threads on a forum for a month.

Damn, looking at this above it's no wonder your damned receivers are all out whack!:facepalm:

Try paragraphs, some semblance of sentence construction, and also some slight train of thought next time so folks can make out what you're trying to say.;)

I hope you went though the public education system.
If your mama paid good money for your education, she needs to demand her money back.:eyebulge:

And the damned receivers, as made today, still suck! :D

hkshooter
October 24, 2017, 20:53
Damn, looking at this above it's no wonder your damned receivers are all out whack!:facepalm:

Try paragraphs, some semblance of sentence construction, and also some slight train of thought next time so folks can make out what you're trying to say.;)

I hope you went though the public education system.
If your mama paid good money for your education, she needs to demand her money back.:eyebulge:

And the damned receivers, as made today, still suck! :D

YH, it's the alcohol. All about the alcohol.:rofl:

12v71
October 24, 2017, 21:49
Yep, as I suspected. So Daniel, instead of posting all the shit you do, tell Dave if he wants his company's reputation back, quit selling defective product. That's all we, as customers, really want. I remember back when Dave started in the FAL business, things went well, and I recomended his receivers as at that time, they were the best doemestic made to be had. I can no longer recomend them, as they no longer are the best to be had.
As it is with everything else in America, if DSA quits manufacturing FALs altogether, anouther business will pick up the slack.
Walter Chow ran Entreprise out of business, no one else. Mark just picked up the inventory. I'm sure that really pissed Dave off, didn't it? When're you going to buy a current DSA receiver and do a build? Would be stellar to see a step by step build thread done by you.
Cheers mate.

Rich... one thing to remember, in the good days both DSA and Entreprise had others building their good receivers. "In house" was the stuff that went to crap for both.

12v71
October 24, 2017, 22:07
You are just a Bloke.Did you mean Joke? go makes money by fixing this stuff ,so why would he says it's ok?Like in the old days at the full service gas station, they'd check your oil for free and nick your fan belt for the return business.So you just like to build guns for yourself and other people, but whine when your 40 year old pos parts kit doesn't fit on the one new part you have to buy.And then some Branch Davidson Bastard rises out of the dessert Sand and says it's Dave's fault. And you fal on your face crying out I Am saved the gp can fix all this shit. You Pussy Patriots are all EVIL.Who the F would make your crappy L 1A1 inch ******* receivers for you , who would go to ring europ to buy 60 year old technology ,bring it back and try to make it work, who'd buy all the Argy crap sort clean it and do the deal so that thr imbicle uppers and lowers were not destroyed and you could get your greasy little hands on them. DSADID. So rather than worship at the feet of a greedy narcissistic sociopath who only wants to monopolize the shrinking FAL market by driving out the next guys in line and then go in and buy up the scraps so he can fix them and sell them to his sycophants you should thank DSA for saving this crappy huge ass pos rifle that no one wanted anymore . But you won't so do us all a favor and crawl back into your creepy little hidiholes . Oh as to full of myself, well it's easy when I am right. As for mr spell check .go beat up on some school kids you pin dick bully.if youre wrong the criticize spelling stratagem is pedantic and boring. And mr conspiracy theory go watch the X Files and pretend your Moulder and not fing Scully.Maybe I was put here by God to point out your Evilness. I don't need 2 identities 1 is enough to speak the truth. Now all of you start being nice or I will continue with calling out your crap.Ps there are a lot of people that have purchased DSA FALs and they like them cause they work,They are fun and they are different,they also out number your cobbled together group,and they have supported my position and my public castigation of your ill mannered participation on this forum. oh one more thing to gp :The word "integrity" should not come off your tongue unless preceded by the words "I can't get me no" but never followed by "but I try"You are in this for the money and any denial or distraction is just plain old deceit . Oh where was the old pedofile,I expected to see his hopping hillbilly all over this.pss to I give up you win cause you are an idiot Well winning is winning and at least I did not loose to an idiot.i overwhelmed a guilty moron. I could go on and on but I am going to put a new scope on a new rifle which is what this forum is supposed to be about.Im giving you a chance here ,you could ask what kind of scope whatever kind of rifle ,why did you buy it do you think it will be fun when are you going to shoot it,where are you gonna shoot it etc that's what belongs on a gun forum. Instead there will be an interrogation as what kind of receiver is it why won't you tell me is it a kryptonite dsa receiver , only I can fix those cause they purposely sell defective parts so I can systematically schedule all the defects and make a you tube video stuffing 24 magazines into 14 rifles saying FAil over and over again so that any one watching thinks it's caught in a feedback loop and it is some sort of PeterSellers impersonation or an inside joke for theFAL community or that the rifle is called a FAIL.Or is it stamped or milled or cast, cause what ever it is we think it sucks and DSA made it.But every time someone other than you dillweeds sends their gun in to be fixed they report ,oh surprise they fixed it.So maybe the reason they did not fix yours was you never had one in the first place,you never sent it in, you were a complete ass to them when you sent in, or omg they made a mistake,and of course since gp doesn't make mistakes DSA is a pos.This is what happens when you can only read rage threads on a forum for a month.

So can you tell me why my 20 round DSA mags wont work, but the 30's do? Why do I have to file the head of the locking shoulder to fit in it's pocket? Why do we have to mill the magwell to make the rifle feed properly?

Dude, whoever you are... you are completely delusional. :stoned:

yellowhand
October 24, 2017, 22:21
YH, it's the alcohol. All about the alcohol.:rofl:

Yep, alcohol will do that to a fellow, or he's been selling the little white pills again vs taking his medications properly.:facepalm:

Seems Mark's video struck a cord with someone at the factory.

But if ya going to come on here and defend their shitty products, at least do it in something legible and coherent.:biggrin:

At this point, I would not purchase anything from them.
Better they sell them to the Africans.
When they don't work, at least no one will get murdered.

1911Ron
October 25, 2017, 08:27
You are just a Bloke.Did you mean Joke? go makes money by fixing this stuff ,so why would he says it's ok?Like in the old days at the full service gas station, they'd check your oil for free and nick your fan belt for the return business.So you just like to build guns for yourself and other people, but whine when your 40 year old pos parts kit doesn't fit on the one new part you have to buy.And then some Branch Davidson Bastard rises out of the dessert Sand and says it's Dave's fault. And you fal on your face crying out I Am saved the gp can fix all this shit. You Pussy Patriots are all EVIL.Who the F would make your crappy L 1A1 inch ******* receivers for you , who would go to ring europ to buy 60 year old technology ,bring it back and try to make it work, who'd buy all the Argy crap sort clean it and do the deal so that thr imbicle uppers and lowers were not destroyed and you could get your greasy little hands on them. DSADID. So rather than worship at the feet of a greedy narcissistic sociopath who only wants to monopolize the shrinking FAL market by driving out the next guys in line and then go in and buy up the scraps so he can fix them and sell them to his sycophants you should thank DSA for saving this crappy huge ass pos rifle that no one wanted anymore . But you won't so do us all a favor and crawl back into your creepy little hidiholes . Oh as to full of myself, well it's easy when I am right. As for mr spell check .go beat up on some school kids you pin dick bully.if youre wrong the criticize spelling stratagem is pedantic and boring. And mr conspiracy theory go watch the X Files and pretend your Moulder and not fing Scully.Maybe I was put here by God to point out your Evilness. I don't need 2 identities 1 is enough to speak the truth. Now all of you start being nice or I will continue with calling out your crap.Ps there are a lot of people that have purchased DSA FALs and they like them cause they work,They are fun and they are different,they also out number your cobbled together group,and they have supported my position and my public castigation of your ill mannered participation on this forum. oh one more thing to gp :The word "integrity" should not come off your tongue unless preceded by the words "I can't get me no" but never followed by "but I try"You are in this for the money and any denial or distraction is just plain old deceit . Oh where was the old pedofile,I expected to see his hopping hillbilly all over this.pss to I give up you win cause you are an idiot Well winning is winning and at least I did not loose to an idiot.i overwhelmed a guilty moron. I could go on and on but I am going to put a new scope on a new rifle which is what this forum is supposed to be about.Im giving you a chance here ,you could ask what kind of scope whatever kind of rifle ,why did you buy it do you think it will be fun when are you going to shoot it,where are you gonna shoot it etc that's what belongs on a gun forum. Instead there will be an interrogation as what kind of receiver is it why won't you tell me is it a kryptonite dsa receiver , only I can fix those cause they purposely sell defective parts so I can systematically schedule all the defects and make a you tube video stuffing 24 magazines into 14 rifles saying FAil over and over again so that any one watching thinks it's caught in a feedback loop and it is some sort of PeterSellers impersonation or an inside joke for theFAL community or that the rifle is called a FAIL.Or is it stamped or milled or cast, cause what ever it is we think it sucks and DSA made it.But every time someone other than you dillweeds sends their gun in to be fixed they report ,oh surprise they fixed it.So maybe the reason they did not fix yours was you never had one in the first place,you never sent it in, you were a complete ass to them when you sent in, or omg they made a mistake,and of course since gp doesn't make mistakes DSA is a pos.This is what happens when you can only read rage threads on a forum for a month.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r ofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

gunplumber
October 25, 2017, 08:32
" the critisisers may have ultirior motives. . . I did not loose to an idiot"

(The irony is palpable)

gunplumber
October 25, 2017, 08:44
Walter Chow ran Entreprise out of business, no one else. Mark just picked up the inventory.

True. All Walter had to do was get the high cap magazine rider on his license. But he thought he could bullshit his way through that, as he had so often before. It's a character thing. What is it about the gun industry that draws so many slime-balls? Is it any wonder a guy who'd been screwing his customers for so many years, thought he could also play fast and loose with CA DOJ? That decision cost him 6 months in jail and the loss of his business.

I'm sure that really pissed Dave off, didn't it?
Did it ever! He was on the phone screaming at the liquidators - so loud I could hear him from 10' away. That if they'd just hold off for a couple more days, he'd fly out and look at it.

I drove all through the night with cash. Cash talks. Then Dave offered to pay me twice what I paid. I told him to go pound sand. Now he has his agent Daniel Lombard/R1shooter ("too corrupt for Chicago PD" and "stolen valor fake commando") claiming I'm dumping defective crap (which is defamation per se, by the way). . .

Well, it is The Chicago Way . . .

Sour grapes, anyone?

https://www.litscape.com/images/Aesop/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes.jpg

jugrunner
October 25, 2017, 10:12
Oh and bouncing hillbilly icon guy,you are the bitter old cretin that revels in the misery of others I referred to in my first post.God I hope they don't leave you alone with children!


I wonder who he is referring too .. ?? ..

I'll just go "revel" somewhere else .. :biggrin: .. while I revel in my own misery that DSA sent in the mail ..

I don't do children but your wife .. maybe .. ?? .. pics .. ??

yellowhand
October 25, 2017, 10:56
I wonder who he is referring too .. ?? ..

I'll just go "revel" somewhere else .. :biggrin: .. while I revel in my own misery that DSA sent in the mail ..

I don't do children but your wife .. maybe .. ?? .. pics .. ??

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

1911Ron
October 25, 2017, 15:14
I wonder who he is referring too .. ?? ..

I'll just go "revel" somewhere else .. :biggrin: .. while I revel in my own misery that DSA sent in the mail ..

I don't do children but your wife .. maybe .. ?? .. pics .. ??

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

308/223shooter
October 25, 2017, 17:16
I wonder who he is referring too .. ?? ..

I'll just go "revel" somewhere else .. :biggrin: .. while I revel in my own misery that DSA sent in the mail ..

I don't do children but your wife .. maybe .. ?? .. pics .. ??

Dale, seriously, could you imagine the woman that'd put up with the likes of this wog?

ftierson
October 25, 2017, 18:25
Dale, seriously, could you imagine the woman that'd put up with the likes of this wog?

There is that... :)

Forrest

jugrunner
October 25, 2017, 18:42
Dale, seriously, could you imagine the woman that'd put up with the likes of this wog?


I wonder if it actually IS a woman .. :eek: ..

there again, it's possible the he IS the (woman) wife ..

you just never know these days .. !!

4x401
October 25, 2017, 22:11
Yes ,I am. Newbie. But that dint keep me from reading all the threads while I waited a month to be allowed to post. It seems to me that there are 2 groups in this forum. 1 who loveFALS and 1 who love to criticize every thing. There is no upside to all this negativity.However the critisisers may have ultirior motives. Just ask yourself who profits from running down the small companies that try and manufacture a gun named FAL.We ball know it's not the best gun but we like it because it's interesting,it's different,it has history,and if you are so inclined you build one.But there are many of us who do not build our own FALs,in fact we are the majority.But yet a small vocal minority ,who build a few guns in their remotely located yurts cr itisize the guys who are just a few steps ahead of them.They crushed Enterprise ,they are crushing Conan, and attempting to crush DSA. At this point as yourself "Who profited from this who bought up all the Enterprise stuff and sold it. Was it the same people who criticized them."And if I read Chicago Way" one more time then every one of my posts will be labeled as such.And I will refer to this negative cancer as PLUMBER'S POSSE?Yeah some of you know what you are talking about,but most of it is out of ignorance.These company's that you criticize don't make 2,3,23,230 guns a year they make thousands,so if a few turds make into your hands when you are trying to build a $ 1000 gun for $500 cause they still try to cater to the community from which they sprang ,do the right thing and give them the break you would want and stop being so nasty that the normal response is to tell you to pound sand or put up your fists.That my friends and FAL fans is the HUMAN WAY! Unless of course you are seeking to profit from someone else's mistakes or just a bitter old cretin who revels in the misery he causes others.



:sleep::sleep::sleep:

gw104
October 26, 2017, 15:24
You are just a Bloke.Did you mean Joke? go makes money by fixing this stuff ,so why would he says it's ok?Like in the old days at the full service gas station, they'd check your oil for free and nick your fan belt for the return business.So you just like to build guns for yourself and other people, but whine when your 40 year old pos parts kit doesn't fit on the one new part you have to buy.And then some Branch Davidson Bastard rises out of the dessert Sand and says it's Dave's fault. And you fal on your face crying out I Am saved the gp can fix all this shit. You Pussy Patriots are all EVIL.Who the F would make your crappy L 1A1 inch ******* receivers for you , who would go to ring europ to buy 60 year old technology ,bring it back and try to make it work, who'd buy all the Argy crap sort clean it and do the deal so that thr imbicle uppers and lowers were not destroyed and you could get your greasy little hands on them. DSADID. So rather than worship at the feet of a greedy narcissistic sociopath who only wants to monopolize the shrinking FAL market by driving out the next guys in line and then go in and buy up the scraps so he can fix them and sell them to his sycophants you should thank DSA for saving this crappy huge ass pos rifle that no one wanted anymore . But you won't so do us all a favor and crawl back into your creepy little hidiholes . Oh as to full of myself, well it's easy when I am right. As for mr spell check .go beat up on some school kids you pin dick bully.if youre wrong the criticize spelling stratagem is pedantic and boring. And mr conspiracy theory go watch the X Files and pretend your Moulder and not fing Scully.Maybe I was put here by God to point out your Evilness. I don't need 2 identities 1 is enough to speak the truth. Now all of you start being nice or I will continue with calling out your crap.Ps there are a lot of people that have purchased DSA FALs and they like them cause they work,They are fun and they are different,they also out number your cobbled together group,and they have supported my position and my public castigation of your ill mannered participation on this forum. oh one more thing to gp :The word "integrity" should not come off your tongue unless preceded by the words "I can't get me no" but never followed by "but I try"You are in this for the money and any denial or distraction is just plain old deceit . Oh where was the old pedofile,I expected to see his hopping hillbilly all over this.pss to I give up you win cause you are an idiot Well winning is winning and at least I did not loose to an idiot.i overwhelmed a guilty moron. I could go on and on but I am going to put a new scope on a new rifle which is what this forum is supposed to be about.Im giving you a chance here ,you could ask what kind of scope whatever kind of rifle ,why did you buy it do you think it will be fun when are you going to shoot it,where are you gonna shoot it etc that's what belongs on a gun forum. Instead there will be an interrogation as what kind of receiver is it why won't you tell me is it a kryptonite dsa receiver , only I can fix those cause they purposely sell defective parts so I can systematically schedule all the defects and make a you tube video stuffing 24 magazines into 14 rifles saying FAil over and over again so that any one watching thinks it's caught in a feedback loop and it is some sort of PeterSellers impersonation or an inside joke for theFAL community or that the rifle is called a FAIL.Or is it stamped or milled or cast, cause what ever it is we think it sucks and DSA made it.But every time someone other than you dillweeds sends their gun in to be fixed they report ,oh surprise they fixed it.So maybe the reason they did not fix yours was you never had one in the first place,you never sent it in, you were a complete ass to them when you sent in, or omg they made a mistake,and of course since gp doesn't make mistakes DSA is a pos.This is what happens when you can only read rage threads on a forum for a month.

Well, I thought about making a comment to this but, I realized, it's not really much fun having a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

brunop
October 26, 2017, 17:31
I wonder who he is referring too .. ?? ..

I'll just go "revel" somewhere else .. :biggrin: .. while I revel in my own misery that DSA sent in the mail ..

I don't do children but your wife .. maybe .. ?? .. pics .. ??


:rofl:

idsubgun
October 26, 2017, 19:38
What happened to Sword of Justice? He came to play and then fell silent.

I guess the alcohol must have worn off!

yellowhand
October 26, 2017, 22:12
What happened to Sword of Justice? He came to play and then fell silent.

I guess the alcohol must have worn off!

His mama locked him out of the basement????:uhoh:

Sword of Justice
October 26, 2017, 23:01
The only palpable irony here is that your name " gun plumber" actually describes you and your skilland your product.And yet people still buy from you.Well I guess everyone needs to shit.As for Jumping Jugs,well I had a dog that could lick his own dick too. And as for yellow hands,try washing after you take shit and do the prison wipe.Is that where the plumber thing comes in.Oh and at least I have a wife who hasn't divorced me and left me living in a remotely located yurt, a trailer park or my mothers basement.And again I wish to point out your pecuniary interest ,"Dave howled, he offered me double,and I told him to pound sand."That was because you didn't want to make money?That smell. That's the shit you are so full of.So all of you Plumbers Pussys can go jerk off in a corner and pretend you are not a bunch of losers led by a Systematic Spasmatic SEPTIC Sucking Malcontent trying to corner the FAL market so he can be worshipped in his tiny little world. Was my spelling better this time ,you jagoffs?ps did any of you ever buy anything from DSA? Did you like it? Did you say so? Or do you just get off on telling people the stuff is bad so that they won't buy what you can't buy.Or that they will buy from you instead?Yes I drink.But unlike you I take it out of the bag first. Oh and the guy who went to jail,the one you tried to help, but then stabbed in the back,how does he feel about you? Just stop ,you make it too easy to disparage you morons ,and the best you can come up with is calling me a drunk woman transsexual wog.Did you shoot yourselves in the head with your defective homemade FALs?That would explain a lot.Did the Plumber make them from the PArts Kits? Did he use the oversized receiver screw? Ha ha ha ha If I didn't have a life I could do this forever. So pretend You're caught in that endless Peter Sellers loop shouting Fail Fail Fail Fail every time you you think of me and what I think of you!

tdb59
October 26, 2017, 23:05
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/1f/24/e3/1f24e31e9665f6a4cd39fa63b568a0cb.jpg

ftierson
October 27, 2017, 00:15
The only palpable irony here is that your name " gun plumber" actually describes you and your skilland your product.And yet people still buy from you.Well I guess everyone needs to shit.As for Jumping Jugs,well I had a dog that could lick his own dick too. And as for yellow hands,try washing after you take shit and do the prison wipe.Is that where the plumber thing comes in.Oh and at least I have a wife who hasn't divorced me and left me living in a remotely located yurt, a trailer park or my mothers basement.And again I wish to point out your pecuniary interest ,"Dave howled, he offered me double,and I told him to pound sand."That was because you didn't want to make money?That smell. That's the shit you are so full of.So all of you Plumbers Pussys can go jerk off in a corner and pretend you are not a bunch of losers led by a Systematic Spasmatic SEPTIC Sucking Malcontent trying to corner the FAL market so he can be worshipped in his tiny little world. Was my spelling better this time ,you jagoffs?ps did any of you ever buy anything from DSA? Did you like it? Did you say so? Or do you just get off on telling people the stuff is bad so that they won't buy what you can't buy.Or that they will buy from you instead?Yes I drink.But unlike you I take it out of the bag first. Oh and the guy who went to jail,the one you tried to help, but then stabbed in the back,how does he feel about you? Just stop ,you make it too easy to disparage you morons ,and the best you can come up with is calling me a drunk woman transsexual wog.Did you shoot yourselves in the head with your defective homemade FALs?That would explain a lot.Did the Plumber make them from the PArts Kits? Did he use the oversized receiver screw? Ha ha ha ha If I didn't have a life I could do this forever. So pretend You're caught in that endless Peter Sellers loop shouting Fail Fail Fail Fail every time you you think of me and what I think of you!

Yes...

Forrest

yellowhand
October 27, 2017, 00:43
Rusty bent blade has returned!

Damn lock on his mama's basement door broke again, shit!:D

mp
October 27, 2017, 07:28
You got to admit the Peter Sellers reference "FAIL, FAIL, FAIL is pretty funny. If you have watched the video.....

gunplumber
October 27, 2017, 08:36
And the babbling loser returns (sigh) . . .

But it bumps my meticulously documented critical review of DSA receivers back to the top for all to see. It enhances my reputation for awesome. And it helps others with their buying decisions - including those responsible for lucrative foreign contracts.

And offers not one word, disputing the technical accuracy of my observations. Which to the discerning reader, is affirmation. Which is why I encourage it. It just drives more and more people to visit https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/.

idsubgun
October 27, 2017, 18:18
And the babbling loser returns (sigh) . . .

But it bumps my meticulously documented critical review of DSA receivers back to the top for all to see. It enhances my reputation for awesome. And it helps others with their buying decisions - including those responsible for lucrative foreign contracts.

And offers not one word, disputing the technical accuracy of my observations. Which to the discerning reader, is affirmation. Which is why I encourage it. It just drives more and more people to visit https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/.

Awesome post, Mr. Awesome!!! LOL!!

Chester Nimitz
November 09, 2017, 15:05
DSA made it a key selling point in two current auctions on Gunbroker. Old store models selling for over $1700. DSA, the Seller, point out they are built on LMT Receivers.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/712844124

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/714224539

I wonder how DSA pissed off LMT to stop making DSA Receivers?


Lest we not forget how the late great Pat Jones (RIP SLR 5000) had his autocad L1A1 Barrel files ripped off by DSA when he submitted them to DSA for a bid request for DSA to manufacture. And how DSA screwed themselves for not catching an error in those autocad files, which Pat Jones purposely built in to the file to prevent being ripped off, which he was. Believe me I am sympathetic to someone having their creative energy stolen by scumbags. I know what it is like to invest time in something that someone gleefully swipes and peddles as their own creation. I am glad DSA has attention span disorder and can not read read blue prints, thus the reason why DSA messed up the tooling set up. I hope the shoddy DSA barrels ended up in enemy hands.

When I first got to know Pat Jones, you would think that he was a bonafide DSA representative. Pat Jones was a player and DSA was a big part of his offerings. At that time I was just starting out building an L1A1 when I first learned of DSA Receivers through Pat Jones' advertisements. Pat Jones purchased scores of DSA Receivers which he resold or built on his rifles, and he advertised them for sale here on the FAL Files. He really wanted DSA to make barrels for him so he could offer more rifles. That was a part of Pat Jones' plan, an attempt to grow and make a sustainable living for his family in Idaho.

Pat Jones had a plan. But DSA could not deal honorably, like Pat Jones really needed more strain on his business during a real bad economic downturn. Ultimately it was a bad economy that forced his wife to take a job in another state to keep the household financially solvent. We all know how that arrangement ended. Yes, DSA, screw you and thank you for nothing. (So Mr. Lake Barrington, why don't you do us all a favor and wash your dirty mouth out with a pistol).

Also, I laugh at the flunkies of the last years of Entreprise (not ENTERPRISE), who could not fill out an order placed on their website. Charging me for an item later to be disputed and refunded, told they were out of stock, etc, etc, etc. And it took the efforts of Gunplumber to sort through their mess to prove those jerk-offs wrong, that indeed they were in stock of the item I really wanted to purchase from their website. The fact is the Entreprise flunkies could not even manage a hot dog stand. Eight years later, I finally got what I wanted out of that Californian den of stupidity.

Yes, thank you Gunplumber, I finally got even with those clowns at Entreprise.

gunplumber
November 09, 2017, 15:28
Lest we not forget how the late great Pat Jones (RIP SLR 5000) had his autocad L1A1 Barrel files ripped off by DSA when he submitted them to DSA for a bid request for DSA to manufacture.

Another member has presented a detailed comparative analysis of the DSA barrel and Pat's barrel. I believe the evidence he presented is compelling, and gives serious doubt to Pat's claim of DSA ripping him off. Pat may have believed DSA "stole" his prints, but the subtle differences in the details suggest his belief to be in error.

Heck, I have the British barrel prints and would happily give them to anyone who will redo them (preferably in Solidworks) and give me a clean copy.

slavicshooter
November 09, 2017, 18:09
Little Poopy Pants will verify the accuracy of Gunplumber's blueprint, if 500 FalFiles members pay for her professional review. Cost: $1.50 for each member.

Remit $funds to:
LPP Blueprint Verification and Grandpa's Grand Power Pistol Fund
Hannibal, Mo. 63401
https://s33.postimg.org/julgtg1z3/2017-02-13_18.34.32_zpsb8rqnnq5.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5bebs18u3/)

Chester Nimitz
November 09, 2017, 20:56
I don't think it was simply a set of blueprints that were copied - I believe Pat's autocad prints were a software creation based on Lithgow's Original prints. What was ripped off was Pat Jone's effort to translate the Lithgow prints into a software that the mill could be automated with.

4x401
November 11, 2017, 11:40
(So Mr. Lake Barrington, why don't you do us all a favor and wash your dirty mouth out with a pistol).

That made me giggle.:p

Tikiman001
November 15, 2017, 20:12
Another member has presented a detailed comparative analysis of the DSA barrel and Pat's barrel. I believe the evidence he presented is compelling, and gives serious doubt to Pat's claim of DSA ripping him off. Pat may have believed DSA "stole" his prints, but the subtle differences in the details suggest his belief to be in error.

Heck, I have the British barrel prints and would happily give them to anyone who will redo them (preferably in Solidworks) and give me a clean copy.

Mark, I don't have time right now to work on it, but maybe around February or March I could make prints up in SolidWorks.

I'm also glad to see that DSA has joined the likes of Hesse and Century for employing drunk and retarded chimpanzees. :facepalm: Never give a Chimp a gun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

Bama Steve
November 19, 2017, 20:37
I noticed Mark gave a a passing grade to the DSA Type-1 in his review but this particular unit was not explicitly discussed.

Need some feedback before I look into it further.

https://www.dsarms.com/p-16839-dsa-sa58-stripped-semi-auto-fal-receiver-contract-over-run-type-1-non-carry-handle-cut.aspx

Anyone?

Thanks.

308/223shooter
November 19, 2017, 22:19
In DSA speak, does "contract over run" translate to "buyer rejects as out of spec." ?

Bama Steve
November 19, 2017, 23:14
I've already asked myself this question and am looking for an answer, hence my post.

Thanks for looking, though . . .

gunplumber
November 20, 2017, 08:10
In DSA speak, does "contract over run" translate to "buyer rejects as out of spec." ?

I would not be surprised.

And yeah, mucho problemos with last F type II. Will post eventually.

littlehoot
November 21, 2017, 13:49
So, apart from all the other stuff.in the thread, what's the best metric pattern (and by best, I mean actual home builder buildable) receiver out there?

Current production, that is

pistolero1911
November 21, 2017, 14:18
Current production limits you to DSA and Coonan. Best available is another matter completely. If it were my money and visual authenticity is below functionality, I'd go IMBEL Type 3 from the MP or GB; seconded by a DSA DS*** prefix forged receiver.

If it has to be new, then either DSA or Coonan either may have problems with QC, or not.

2keylows
November 22, 2017, 02:44
Please do GP.
I think you may be referring to my build...

Much appreciated again in correcting a rather unique build situation.

rubicon923
November 23, 2017, 22:04
...Ha ha ha ha If I didn't have a life I could do this forever...

Sword of Justice,

Just wanted to say that I agree 100% with all of the excellent points you have been making. It's about time someone put these morons in their place. For instance, they waste space by putting blank lines between groups of sentences and call them "paragraphs". How stupid is that? Your style of writing is much more efficient.

Now that you see that I am solidly in your corner, I thought that perhaps I could ask you a couple of personal questions, if you don't mind.

Your user name "Sword of Justice" suggests that your mission in life is to right the many wrongs that only someone of your intelligence is aware of. Are you perhaps receiving radio wave instructions from friendly aliens or do you hear voices that ordinary people cannot hear?

I would be interested in seeing a recent photo of yourself. Could you possibly imbed one in your next post?

Have your enemies (like the other posters in this thread) succeeded in having you unfairly committed to a mental institution (because they are jealous of your gifts)?

Keep strong. You will prevail!

yellowhand
November 23, 2017, 22:42
Sword of Justice,

Just wanted to say that I agree 100% with all of the excellent points you have been making. It's about time someone put these morons in their place. For instance, they waste space by putting blank lines between groups of sentences and call them "paragraphs". How stupid is that? Your style of writing is much more efficient.

Now that you see that I am solidly in your corner, I thought that perhaps I could ask you a couple of personal questions, if you don't mind.

Your user name "Sword of Justice" suggests that your mission in life is to right the many wrongs that only someone of your intelligence is aware of. Are you perhaps receiving radio wave instructions from friendly aliens or do you hear voices that ordinary people cannot hear?

I would be interested in seeing a recent photo of yourself. Could you possibly imbed one in your next post?

Have your enemies (like the other posters in this thread) succeeded in having you unfairly committed to a mental institution (because they are jealous of your gifts)?

Keep strong. You will prevail!

The last time he logged in was 26 October, suspect he's back in his mama's basement, or DSA fired him.:rofl:

idsubgun
November 25, 2017, 23:21
The last time he logged in was 26 October, suspect he's back in his mama's basement, or DSA fired him.:rofl:

Or finally enrolled in Alcoholics Anonymous!

JonnyP
November 26, 2017, 03:13
This is all so moronic. I don't understand how DSA, Entreprise and a bunch of others have gotten away with it for so long. The only experience that even comes close is marine outboard motor dealers - don't even get me going on that topic.

It's dead simple - DSA outsourced to LMT and produced in-spec, apparently reliable receivers. Ditto Entreprise with ABNI. Both types of receiver now command a premium that must translate into a handsome net profit if you were manufacturing them now.

So instead of fcuking around playing bait and switch, destroying what limited reputation you have left, outsource to a shop that can replicate the results. Fcuk, if nothing else, even if it's a push profit wise, capitalize on the throughput of related parts and accessories.

Maybe I'm in a fortunate position, but if a vendor could make either Aussie, Brit or SA receivers with 100% reliability that built/timed first time, every time, I'd be willing to pay $600-650 a pop all day long...

It's not that hard. When you fcuk your customers over in a niche market, word spreads and your new customer acquisition costs go through the roof. The exact opposite is also true. There's no big mystery or conspiracy here. If GP was bulshitting, this would be the first group of people that would call him out. It's retarded. If you speak for DSA or are affiliated... go home, you're drunk.

adamweinerog
November 27, 2017, 11:38
I'm sure it's been said before and beaten to death, but man, what would it take to get a decent damn receiver produced these days?? I've been busy working so I haven't been keeping up on some of these threads, but I just read through this one and admittedly I "skimmed" our new friend Sword of Justice's incoherent and obviously challenged writing. Good lawd you get busy doing other things and come back for a light morning read, ha! The Sword of Justice must be related to Blind Lady justice from the looks of his grammar!

Now in all seriousness; Mark, he was right about you ripping people off though, and it's time I told my story. I shelled out good money for Mark's VHS Fal gunsmithing tape with my buddy back in the day. Mark, you selfishly then chatted with me on the phone a few times when I had newbie questions, sold me a few parts that you had the audacity to accurately describe the condition of, but then it became obvious what was really occurring! The unforgivable and obvious sin that The MIGHTY Sword of Justice has pointed out, is that you are a sociopath that has gotten into this business purely for the money. You've posted thread after thread selfishly helping people build and troubleshoot their home builds. Not to mention the just plain egregious manner in which you've reaped in tons of cash by using these sly tactics of appearing to "help" the members here just to raid our pockets later! I am victim to Mark's selfish tactics folks, and it's time I came forward! Mark has HOSED me for not only the cost of his VHS tape, well half of the cost, which subsequently gestated in the building of nine rifles between several friends, and his selfish contributions on this forum has cost me and several others a lot of money in building these rifles. I'm in the hole financially because of Mark! I've personally bought several TENS of dollars in parts from him, and he's mercilessly taken my money!!! All the while he posts pics of himself throwing money around and making it rain at strip clubs and posting pics of his latest sports car of the month. It's time that we come forward about Mark's abuse here on the files.
#METOO

DSA_REP
December 05, 2017, 16:28
DSA made it a key selling point in two current auctions on Gunbroker. Old store models selling for over $1700. DSA, the Seller, point out they are built on LMT Receivers.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/712844124

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/714224539

I wonder how DSA pissed off LMT to stop making DSA Receivers?


Lest we not forget how the late great Pat Jones (RIP SLR 5000) had his autocad L1A1 Barrel files ripped off by DSA when he submitted them to DSA for a bid request for DSA to manufacture. And how DSA screwed themselves for not catching an error in those autocad files, which Pat Jones purposely built in to the file to prevent being ripped off, which he was. Believe me I am sympathetic to someone having their creative energy stolen by scumbags. I know what it is like to invest time in something that someone gleefully swipes and peddles as their own creation. I am glad DSA has attention span disorder and can not read read blue prints, thus the reason why DSA messed up the tooling set up. I hope the shoddy DSA barrels ended up in enemy hands.

When I first got to know Pat Jones, you would think that he was a bonafide DSA representative. Pat Jones was a player and DSA was a big part of his offerings. At that time I was just starting out building an L1A1 when I first learned of DSA Receivers through Pat Jones' advertisements. Pat Jones purchased scores of DSA Receivers which he resold or built on his rifles, and he advertised them for sale here on the FAL Files. He really wanted DSA to make barrels for him so he could offer more rifles. That was a part of Pat Jones' plan, an attempt to grow and make a sustainable living for his family in Idaho.

Pat Jones had a plan. But DSA could not deal honorably, like Pat Jones really needed more strain on his business during a real bad economic downturn. Ultimately it was a bad economy that forced his wife to take a job in another state to keep the household financially solvent. We all know how that arrangement ended. Yes, DSA, screw you and thank you for nothing. (So Mr. Lake Barrington, why don't you do us all a favor and wash your dirty mouth out with a pistol).

Also, I laugh at the flunkies of the last years of Entreprise (not ENTERPRISE), who could not fill out an order placed on their website. Charging me for an item later to be disputed and refunded, told they were out of stock, etc, etc, etc. And it took the efforts of Gunplumber to sort through their mess to prove those jerk-offs wrong, that indeed they were in stock of the item I really wanted to purchase from their website. The fact is the Entreprise flunkies could not even manage a hot dog stand. Eight years later, I finally got what I wanted out of that Californian den of stupidity.

Yes, thank you Gunplumber, I finally got even with those clowns at Entreprise.

To Mr. Nimitz,
What you are stating is the furthest from reality you can get on our relationship with Pat Jones along with the Quip about LMT, and is completely unnecessary and a slanderous statement.

1. (We had) our good friends at LMT stop running our uppers DSA SA58/FAL upper receivers; they were always DS Arms upper receivers, not LMTs. We did this because they were focusing on developing their own products & contract fulfillment and as such contract manufacturing was taking a back seat to these obligations. Because of this we elected to bring the manufacture of the upper receiver in house where we would be able to control the production and inventory needs. Their business dynamics changed as did ours and our friend Karl with his team did wonderful work for us in helping us to develop and engineer many of our products at the beginning. But as times changed they needed their capacity for their own products and government work which they were focused on, not our products. We needed people focused solely on our product lines.

It took us years to tweak those products especially the uppers with LMT. We still have a box of reject LMT receivers and returned many out of spec to them for credit. They destroyed hundreds over the years because these receivers did not match print or had some other flaw. The point is they were rejected by us, not LMT. Do you really think that Dave and all of the crew here at DSA never instructed LMT on what we wanted for our finished products as a customer, or who provided the specifications and the original Steyr & FN prints? Do you think the LMT employee’s just somehow knew what they were supposed to be doing with FAL receivers or rather that the U.S. experts on the FAL told them what we wanted and how they should be?

All the first receivers were hand worked by DSA until LMT was able to incorporate some machine corrections and hand deburring procedures. Then LMT tried to keep the same employee’s on our jobs so they would be familiar with what we told them to do to have an acceptable product. Any receivers we have made in house from forgings are no different than what LMT used to deliver us. Our forged or cast with every surface milled are not different in any functional way or appearance. QC issues come up with every company and every product from time to time; we have many photos of our own units that didn’t pass QC that are in the scrap barrels. You act upon it and correct it like we do and LMT did and we are sure still does with their own products. Many boxes full of uppers went back to LMT for rework or destruction which is another reason they were not too keen on continuing to run them. It’s a difficult part to make whether you start with Bar, a forging or casting. We mill our entire casting unlike the many “as cast” substandard models that have been on the market. And we have no bolt carrier stop on the front left due to never seeing one on any original print or rifle, why put that in if it wasn’t on the print, yet you deem this acceptable from other manufacturers?

Also, if people are that wrapped up in forged or cast, go ahead and pay more for a forged one. If anyone ever wears one out from live fire use we will happily give them a new one at N/C. We admire LMT and their products but guess what, they are human as well and made mistakes and sometimes produced stuff that ended up in the scrap pile. Just like Blake Stevens told us years ago, FN Herstal had large piles of scrap FAL uppers and we are sure other parts. Dave has been to FN Herstal as well as Imbel, DGFM Argentina and Steyr many times when it existed prior to the selloff, have you? This is the life of any manufacturer. We have nothing but good to say about our time with LMT and all they helped us with. Your statement has no merit whatsoever in truth.


2. Mr. Pat Jones. Pat was a great customer and enthusiast we were happy to work with. Right up to the Saturday night Dave and friends had beers with him at one of the local Louisville bars. This was the Saturday night at Knob Creek just before he departed and did what he did for reasons only known to him. At no time did Dave or anyone at the company take anything from Pat he didn’t willingly provide to us. Actually another company gave us the L1A1 barrel blueprint we used for our production run. This was given to us at the time due to a number of kits available on the market that did not include barrels to complete them; this was also the reason why we did our last run of Australian pattern upper receivers. If they got it from Pat then they did, Pat never said a word of anger to us on this subject only that he wanted us to make barrels and other items for him. All of our interactions and conversations with Pat were positive and forward looking. He was regularly purchasing receivers, PARA components and any number of other items. We worked with him and discussed expanding him representing our products and gave each other special considerations. Our last conversations with Pat were nothing but positive and friendly whether it was at our tables at the show, his, the phone or bar. If he had any issues with Dave or anyone at the company I doubt he would have hesitated to say it to our faces, especially while out drinking and having a good time together. What a person says behind our backs who knows, all we know is what he said and did to our faces. What you are putting out there is very far from the truth of our relationship with Mr. Jones, it was quite the opposite. He was a great representative of the FAL and L1A1 rifle in the U.S. and a great person to have gotten to work with. He is sorely missed and May God Rest His Soul.


Thanks, DSA_REP

yellowhand
December 05, 2017, 18:26
:butthurt::butthurt::butthurt::popcorn::popcorn::p opcorn::wink:

gunplumber
December 05, 2017, 18:34
:butthurt::butthurt::butthurt::popcorn::popcorn::p opcorn::wink:

I'd actually prefer if my documentation thread on defects by serial number of DSA receivers does not deteriorate into a Pat Jones thread.

As I stated earlier, I have studied the careful documentation of the Pat Jones vs DSA L1A1 barrels provided by another member. I have three of Pat's barrels in front of me now, and 40 more coming eventually. I agree with DSA_REP. I do not believe Pat's claim that DSA "ripped off his prints/programming" to be of merit. That he may honestly have believed it, does not make it true, and the fine details strongly suggest he made his accusation in error.

Bonac9
December 05, 2017, 19:04
I didn't intend to get involved in this thread, other than to read it, but there are a number of things that bother me about the post from DSA_REP. I can't comment on the quality of the DSA upper receivers, past or present, as I don't have any. I certainly haven't ruled out ever getting one, but I am fairly new to the FAL, and haven't used one yet.

What has me wondering about the post, is you claim status as a DSA Rep, but you state, "Location: I'm an active FAL enthusiast living in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin." You also use we frequently when writing of earlier days at DSA, and indicate that you are quite familiar with its operations and administration.

So my questions are:

1. Why an active FAL enthusiast, and not a professional?

2. What exactly does Rep. mean? I notice from the location you state you live in what Wikipedia terms a resort city in Wisconsin, and not in Barrington, Il. So does Rep. mean you speak for DSA?

3. This one is more of an observation, but if you are such an old hand at DSA, I'm surprised you just joined in Sept. Not that it is a requirement for people in the business, but I would think it would just make good sense to be the member of a SIG that focuses on what has been one of the mainstay products of DSA. Which leads me to my next question.

4. Why do you address what really is a side issue, from a month old post in your first post, and not touch at all on the topic of the thread? In case you missed it, the subject matter is the build quality of DS Arms current line of receivers, and how closely they adhere or don't, to the original specs of the FAL. While all the historical information may be of interest for somebody purchasing an old FAL, or someone writing a book on the FAL, I think the current production and how DSA is addressing the issues is of more interest to the readers of this thread.

yellowhand
December 05, 2017, 21:40
I'd actually prefer if my documentation thread on defects by serial number of DSA receivers does not deteriorate into a Pat Jones thread.

As I stated earlier, I have studied the careful documentation of the Pat Jones vs DSA L1A1 barrels provided by another member. I have three of Pat's barrels in front of me now, and 40 more coming eventually. I agree with DSA_REP. I do not believe Pat's claim that DSA "ripped off his prints/programming" to be of merit. That he may honestly have believed it, does not make it true, and the fine details strongly suggest he made his accusation in error.

My butt hurt comment was directed at the "new" DSA person just now showing up, not the pat jones stuff.
As in, can't wait to see where this leads next from DSA.

DSA_REP
December 06, 2017, 11:48
I didn't intend to get involved in this thread, other than to read it, but there are a number of things that bother me about the post from DSA_REP. I can't comment on the quality of the DSA upper receivers, past or present, as I don't have any. I certainly haven't ruled out ever getting one, but I am fairly new to the FAL, and haven't used one yet.

What has me wondering about the post, is you claim status as a DSA Rep, but you state, "Location: I'm an active FAL enthusiast living in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin." You also use we frequently when writing of earlier days at DSA, and indicate that you are quite familiar with its operations and administration.

So my questions are:

1. Why an active FAL enthusiast, and not a professional?
I am a professional customer service representative with nearly 10 years of firearms industry experience, technical experience related to firearms and a strong personnel and professional interest in firearms and specifically the FAL.

2. What exactly does Rep. mean? I notice from the location you state you live in what Wikipedia terms a resort city in Wisconsin, and not in Barrington, Il. So does Rep. mean you speak for DSA? It means that this account was created by our marketing department and is managed by DS Arms and a team of customer service and technical staff.

3. This one is more of an observation, but if you are such an old hand at DSA, I'm surprised you just joined in Sept. Not that it is a requirement for people in the business, but I would think it would just make good sense to be the member of a SIG that focuses on what has been one of the mainstay products of DSA. Which leads me to my next question. For a number of years we (DS Arms) did not maintain a presence on this forum for a variety of reasons but due to a number of recent statements by members of this forum we felt it was time to rejoin and provide the support, service and true technical information that only a real manufacturer can provide, rather than just gunsmith notes and basic observations.

4. Why do you address what really is a side issue, from a month old post in your first post, and not touch at all on the topic of the thread? In case you missed it, the subject matter is the build quality of DS Arms current line of receivers, and how closely they adhere or don't, to the original specs of the FAL. While all the historical information may be of interest for somebody purchasing an old FAL, or someone writing a book on the FAL, I think the current production and how DSA is addressing the issues is of more interest to the readers of this thread. This post was just simply the first of a number that will be forthcoming, including the addressing of issues or concerns any of our valued customer may experience. Additionally if you read the first part of our response you will see that we did reply with information in regards to receiver concerns and false statements made about our company.


Please see my response to your questions above in blue.

Thanks, DSA_REP

gunplumber
December 06, 2017, 11:54
Not to be confused with DSARMS_REP Join date 2011

308/223shooter
December 06, 2017, 12:59
Please see my response to your questions above in blue.

Thanks, DSA_REP

Is Billy still the head FAL gun smith?
And, will DSA be correcting the issues found in this thread? http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=421204
I ask, as I'm asked on a fairly regular basis, who makes the best U.S. made FAL receiver, and while at one time I had no reservations with recommending DSA, I now am forced to say "No one that I'm currently aware of".

yellowhand
December 06, 2017, 14:21
Please see my response to your questions above in blue.

Thanks, DSA_REP

OK, so I purchase one of your receivers,(Got a near all matching Brit kit sitting here) get it in my hands, send it off to Gunplumber to build, get an email or telephone call from Mark, that says, this thing is out of whack, (that's my technical term for anything not working properly) who exactly do I call at DSA, and what will or can I expect to hear from DSA when I say, this thing is out of whack and Mark tells me to return it or that he has to do all sorts of stuff to "make it work" which I really don't care to do on any brand new product purchased by anyone?

I'm not a builder of these rifles, Mark builds my rifles. Mark has a name, he test fires all my builds before he sends it back to me.

So what should I expect from DSA if problems arise?
Who should I speak with?

And who are you?

slavicshooter
December 06, 2017, 15:07

And who are you?

◇I'm Jacob McCandle

☆I thought you were dead

◇Not hardly

~ss:biggrin:

▪Edited to McCandle

yellowhand
December 06, 2017, 15:09

And who are you?

◇I'm Jacob McHandells

☆I thought you were dead

◇Not hardly

~ss:biggrin:

:biggrin:

But I think it was McCandles.;)

1911Ron
December 06, 2017, 15:58
So who was R1Shooter? I thought he was your Rep?

gunplumber
December 06, 2017, 17:27
So who was R1Shooter? I thought he was your Rep?

R1shooter is Daniel Lombard - the disgraced "too corrupt for Chicago" cop and stolen-valor "fake commando".

yellowhand
December 06, 2017, 22:07
DSA must be having a board meeting on how to answer my questions.:whistling:

DSARMS_REP
December 06, 2017, 22:40
DSA must be having a board meeting on how to answer my questions.:whistling:

No we have just made the decision to try to come back on here and address questions and concerns and spread the truth. This will be our final attempt and if this forum is moderated in a fair way we will stay on here and become even but involved in the fal files community over time. The choice is not ours it's the forum moderators and management.

In our opinion this forum should not be bullied by a "glorified self aggrandized parts assembler" like GP nor should it be suger coated by a rifle manufacture like us(dsa)

TraFALgar
December 07, 2017, 00:09
Clearly, there is no love lost between Mark and DSA, :fencing:
but ...
we felt it was time to rejoin and provide the support, service and true technical information that only a real manufacturer can provide

Here, here! I'm sure we would all welcome this! :cheers:

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 01:26
No we have just made the decision to try to come back on here and address questions and concerns and spread the truth. This will be our final attempt and if this forum is moderated in a fair way we will stay on here and become even but involved in the fal files community over time. The choice is not ours it's the forum moderators and management.

In our opinion this forum should not be bullied by a "glorified self aggrandized parts assembler" like GP nor should it be suger coated by a rifle manufacture like us(dsa)


Damn, how many of you are on here, with the same no name?:rofl:

And you did not answer my questions, which were very polite I might add, not like this crap you, who ever you are, just posted above.

As for final tries, DSA has one more chance with this old boy and then all of you can kiss my ass, and anyone mentions buying a DSA anything around me, well, the conversation will be short and sweet, actually, will just copy your non response above and post it for them to read.

So answer my question or stfu and crawl off back into your safe space sonny boy.

Here is my comment, with my questions for you, whoever you are hiding behind a company name.

""OK, so I purchase one of your receivers,(Got a near all matching Brit kit sitting here) get it in my hands, send it off to Gunplumber to build, get an email or telephone call from Mark, that says, this thing is out of whack, (that's my technical term for anything not working properly) who exactly do I call at DSA, and what will or can I expect to hear from DSA when I say, this thing is out of whack and Mark tells me to return it or that he has to do all sorts of stuff to "make it work" which I really don't care to do on any brand new product purchased by anyone?

I'm not a builder of these rifles, Mark builds my rifles. Mark has a name, he test fires all my builds before he sends it back to me.

So what should I expect from DSA if problems arise?
Who should I speak with?

And who are you? """

I'm guessing Daniel.

gunplumber
December 07, 2017, 08:20
"glorified self aggrandized parts assembler" like GP

That's the guy people send their guns to, to have them fixed, after giving up on on DSA's "warranty."

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 09:09
That's the guy people send their guns to, to have them fixed, after giving up on on DSA's "warranty."

False its more like "the egomaniac that is so busy with "gunsmithing" work but at the same time has so much time to sit on the fal files and post his personal vendetta childish bullshit". You post 25% fal stuff and 75% childish vendetta bullshit like "its the Chicago way" why don't you grow up and be a man and handle this like a man instead of a child but with your ego I don't think that's possible. Are you an arrogant bastard like you state or another gun show egomaniac?

I challenge you to be the arrogant bastard that you say you are but for that you may have to stop your egomaniac childish actions and act like a man not a teenager living in his mom's basement.

I get this sense that this vendetta you have is consuming you and limiting your possibilities and if you ever want to be more than the simple parts assembler that you are you may want to see someone about this.

Posting opinions based on facts is one thing. Posting opinions without facts is anouther. The argument here is what is the real truth and who can really be believed. GP what you post is childish ego bullshit.

Perhaps we just change your name to the "ego plumber" "master parts assembler"

Trypcil
December 07, 2017, 09:52
If one is going to be mean, be accurate! There is a chance here for 'learning' - if civility can be maintained - or I see a shi#storm developing, lets not go there please. There are many reported issues DSa receivers exhibit, that seem to be recurring - these are genuine issues, and many are sick of just talking to the 'Hand', and would like answers not censorship.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 10:04
If one is going to be mean, be accurate! There is a chance here for 'learning' - if civility can be maintained - or I see a shi#storm developing, lets not go there please. There are many reported issues DSa receivers exhibit, that seem to be recurring - these are genuine issues, and many are sick of just talking to the 'Hand', and would like answers not censorship.

Agreed, civility is needed but we won't just sit back and take the name calling bullshit let's stop it all and have real conversations.

The balls in the forums court let's watch the play

gunplumber
December 07, 2017, 10:06
False

Umm - no. I'm an asshole, but I only post documented fact.

After you sit on a warranty repair for months, and return it to the customer with the same problem it went in for, where does it come? Yeah, to me. And as the disgraced "too corrupt for Chicago" cop, R1shooter (DSA's agent) said "gunsmith probably never even looked at it".

You post 25% fal stuff and 75% childish vendetta bullshit like "its the Chicago way"

Umm - google Chicago politics and criminal convictions, for an introduction into "The Chicago Way". Getting over appears to be a cultural norm, and has been for a century.

why don't you grow up and be a man and handle this like a man

You mean like careful photo documentation of every defect found, by serial number? Which I have done in this thread and my videos. Still have more to post when I have time.

Posting opinions without facts is anouther.

Please point us to any statement I have made that is factually incorrect.

gotta love those DSA receivers (DSA 34704)
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23621648_1057521107723964_6108051211517737367_n.jp g?oh=297e9dfc0611fb3f64e996faa99c6396&oe=5AD3DD38

hkshooter
December 07, 2017, 10:06
Wow.

1911Ron
December 07, 2017, 12:26
R1shooter is Daniel Lombard - the disgraced "too corrupt for Chicago" cop and stolen-valor "fake commando".

I know who he is, I was hoping the DSA "rep" would answer.

To the DSA "Rep" I saw for myself a DSA receiver that was so out of spec (bolt rails) that even I who is not a gunsmith could see the problem.

Mark AKA Gunplumber AKA Arrogant Bastard will not varnish the truth and will freely admit when he is wrong or is not familiar with something. I would trust Marks results long before yours (once you PROVE to be committed to fixing problems I will change my outlook) or R1Shooters lies and slandering.

So again does Daniel Lombard AKA R1Shooter represent DSA or not?

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 12:59
I am not sure all of what R1shooter said or did on the fal files I guess I will have to do a search. R1shooter worked with DSA but not at DSA. He tried to engage the fal files community and I think for a long while did well with it. I think what happened may have been caused from a lack of knowledge from R1shooter just because he wasn't here at DSA.

What I can state is R1shooter is a police officer in Chicago currently and is not a former officer he is active and has worked in many areas of the CPD. Like many CPD officers he has had his share of bullshit to deal with and that is what happened in regards to this article the "egoplumber" keeps citing, but he is still an active duty CPD officer and has worked their for at least 15 years that I know of.

R1shooter was with DSAs testing and evaluation department. He also managed our instuctural training team. R1shooter attended various shooting competitions for us like the fort benning 3 gun shoot etc..Further more he was on our foreign military sales and demonstration team.

R1shooter is a South African and American citizen and has served in the South Africa military in some capacity. Along with South African law enforcement agencies.

R1shooter is not currently representing us on the fal files, but still talks with us quite often and I am certain will be working with or along side us for many many years and for that we are extremely thankful.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 13:04
If and when there's issues with DSA product we will of course address them and fix them to the level needed. AS for egoplumber we simply can not and will not trust his opinion because it's very clear he has other motives as seen by his actions and statements.

lostmybearing
December 07, 2017, 13:20
Well, for a "professional customer service representative with nearly 10 years of firearms industry experience", you sure have not exhibited any evidence of being a professional. How about laying off the personal stuff and set about restoring some trust in your companies' product.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 13:27
If his skin is not thick enough and he wants us to lay off personal stuff we can if he asks nice and does the same, really a good forum wouldn't even allow this type of shit in the first place. We are just of the opinion it's the language he speaks because of HIS statements and actions. I dont think any level of customer service would stop his personal vendetta because it's pretty clear it's driven by ego and other motives.

G3isMe
December 07, 2017, 13:55
Agreed, civility is needed but we won't just sit back and take the name calling bullshit let's stop it all and have real conversations.

The balls in the forums court let's watch the play

By the looks of your recent posts this didn't last long on your part. You are the one that devolved into name calling. I was hopeful but that lasted about 15 minutes. :facepalm:

G3isMe
December 07, 2017, 13:56
If his skin is not thick enough and he wants us to lay off personal stuff we can if he asks nice and does the same, really a good forum wouldn't even allow this type of shit in the first place. We are just of the opinion it's the language he speaks because of HIS statements and actions. I dont think any level of customer service would stop his personal vendetta because it's pretty clear it's driven by ego and other motives.

Actually a good forum would allow this type of discourse honest open facts shown and supported by photographs. Anything less is censorship.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 13:59
Actually a good forum would allow this type of discourse honest open facts shown and supported by photographs. Anything less is censorship.

I don't mind the product discussions at all but the Chicago way and the R1shooter stuff isn't about products.

OLDMANPBK
December 07, 2017, 14:06
By the looks of your recent posts this didn't last long on your part. You are the one that devolved into name calling. I was hopeful but that lasted about 15 minutes. :facepalm:

Yeah, cut the crap and tell us about the new inspection procedures you have put in place to correct the many issues you see documented in these threads. A kit build on one of your receivers shouldn't require a milling machine.

308/223shooter
December 07, 2017, 14:08
I don't mind the product discussions at all but the Chicago way and the R1shooter stuff isn't about products.



So, are you the same guy as DSA_REP, cause I believe one person having two user names and accounts are against the rules.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 14:10
We have different people on each account So, are you the same guy as DSA_REP, cause I believe one person having two user names and accounts are against the rules.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 14:12
We have information in the form of statements and videos coming soon. LYeah, cut the crap and tell us about the new inspection procedures you have put in place to correct the many issues you see documented in these threads. A kit build on one of your receivers shouldn't require a milling machine.

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 14:23
If his skin is not thick enough and he wants us to lay off personal stuff we can if he asks nice and does the same, really a good forum wouldn't even allow this type of shit in the first place. We are just of the opinion it's the language he speaks because of HIS statements and actions. I dont think any level of customer service would stop his personal vendetta because it's pretty clear it's driven by ego and other motives.

You can't answer technical questions/concerns posed by anyone here, and you can't even answer my non technical questions, and you ain't worth a good shit for shit slinging, so just what are you good for and why are you even here?

I don't even believe you are a DSA representative, NO company doing business with the public would ever hire or allow you to behave this way in public.

Someone please check this assholes IP addresses, I'm guessing they all come from the same place as rusty blade, or that other DSA poser shithead.

Time to put in a call to DSA and ask, are you aware this smuck is posing as your representative???
Companies have legal departments that take very dim views of this shit.

Now run along back to your mama's basement, its Thursday, and she cooks meat loaf on Thursday.:rofl:

gunplumber
December 07, 2017, 14:25
I don't mind the product discussions at all but the Chicago way and the R1shooter stuff isn't about products.

But knowing the character of DSA's reps, puts their constant lies and slanders into perspective - it's about credibility.

When I make an assertion, everyone knows that it is true and correct to the best of my knowledge. Whatever I may lack in diplomacy, I make up in credibility.

When DSA's Agent - the disgraced cop (too corrupt for Chicago PD) R1shooter, posts something, many people assume it's just another lie. Why? Because he has been caught in one lie after another. He's simply lost all credibility here. You really ought to tell him to stay off the internet when he's drinking. And when he's sober for that matter.

Credibility. It matters.

R1shooter is a South African and American citizen and has served in the South Africa military in some capacity.

No, despite his claims of being a "Kommando", he has admitted to never having served in the military

What I can state is R1shooter is a police officer in Chicago currently and is not a former officer he is active

Although the police board sought his termination for his abuses (corruption) and false statements (lies) and false official reports (lies), he only received a year suspension. That he lied in his official reports as a police officer, leaves little surprise that he has been caught in lie after lie here as well. (Police Board of Chicago No 12 PB 2795, CR 1006073 Daniel Lombard, badge #10022)

1911Ron
December 07, 2017, 14:31
If his skin is not thick enough and he wants us to lay off personal stuff we can if he asks nice and does the same, really a good forum wouldn't even allow this type of shit in the first place. We are just of the opinion it's the language he speaks because of HIS statements and actions. I dont think any level of customer service would stop his personal vendetta because it's pretty clear it's driven by ego and other motives.

Quality products would go a long way to restoring customer trust, as for Mark he does meticulous work and record keeping and is fair and unbiased in his findings. He has even said he would rather be able to just build a rifle as opposed to trouble shooting defective (proven defective) parts (misdrilled holes, oversized locking shoulder holes, uneven bolt rails and the list goes on)and wasting his time and money (one and the same) dealing with the bulls**t

gunplumber
December 07, 2017, 14:46
he would rather be able to just build a rifle as opposed to trouble shooting defective (proven defective) parts (misdrilled holes, oversized locking shoulder holes, uneven bolt rails and the list goes on)and wasting his time and money (one and the same) dealing with the bulls**t

Absolutely. DSA has cost me thousands if not tens of thousands in lost revenue, troubleshooting and fixing problems that never should have left DSA. But when DSA continues to sell defective products, long after being put on notice as to the problems, what else can it be but "The Chicago Way!"

I still await any of DSA's Agents to direct us to a post where I knowingly made a factually untrue statement.

On the other hand, some have been trying to "get me" from the start - predating even the Fal Files. And have failed. Because I do not post anything without being able to back it up.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 14:57
Quality products would go a long way to restoring customer trust, as for Mark he does meticulous work and record keeping and is fair and unbiased in his findings. He has even said he would rather be able to just build a rifle as opposed to trouble shooting defective (proven defective) parts (misdrilled holes, oversized locking shoulder holes, uneven bolt rails and the list goes on)and wasting his time and money (one and the same) dealing with the bulls**t

We have added many new hard gauges to inspect the ejector block placement in order to eliminate hole alingment issues. Also We added a carrier and top cover gauge at the machine so it's inspected throughout the production run not just in the QC room these extra layers of checks and balances will help the overall QC particularly for home builders. We are in fact adding new QC steps all the time and any issues will be address just as we have done in the past when our barrel timing was not optimal for home builders. This optimal for home builders issue is being taken very serious here and is actively being addressed. For a long time period here we were very focused on rifle production and for us the parts for rifle production were actually optimal for us but we understand that's not always the case for the home builder.

We are here to listen to these concerns and anwser questions and would like to do this without talk of corruption, Chicago way or other bullshit.

We will have an official company statement and more details will be announced beginning next week.

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 14:57
Mark, these are not DSA reps, even DSA are NOT that stupid!:facepalm:

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 15:01
We have added many new hard gauges to inspect the ejector block placement in order to eliminate hole alingment issues. Also We added a carrier and top cover gauge at the machine so it's inspected throughout the production run not just in the QC room these extra layers of checks and balances will help the overall QC particularly for home builders. We are in fact adding new QC steps all the time and any issues will be address just as we have done in the past when our barrel timing was not optimal for home builders. This optimal for home builders issue is being taken very serious here and is actively being addressed. For a long time period here we were very focused on rifle production and for us the parts for rifle production were actually optimal for us but we understand that's not always the case for the home builder.

We are here to listen to these concerns and anwser questions and would like to do this without talk of corruption, Chicago way or other bullshit.

Post your first name here and give us a DSA company phone number to call and confirm you actually work for DSA or STFU.
And you know, we'll just call into the DSA main number and go from there.
Now put up or shut up.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 15:07
This account was set up in 2011 when we last considered being active on here also we do not release names because it's a company account the poster/s may change from time to time. I am sorry but you will just have to deal with that situation for now if you can't I understand but it is what it is.

An official company statement and an official company point of contact will be given next week along with exciting news for fal files members. If you want to disregard my posts that's fine it's your call.



Ether way You will have an official point of contact next week. Until then call DSA and ask for customer service they will do their best with questions on orders and products. Have a great weekend!!

tdb59
December 07, 2017, 15:35
...........it's a company account the poster/s may change from time to time...........






For posterity.





:shades:

308/223shooter
December 07, 2017, 15:39
This account was set up in 2011 when we last considered being active on here also we do not release names because it's a company account the poster/s may change from time to time. I am sorry but you will just have to deal with that situation for now if you can't I understand but it is what it is.

An official company statement and an official company point of contact will be given next week. If you want to disregard my posts that's fine it's your call.



Ether way You will have an official point of contact next week. Have a great weekend

Against my better judgment, I ordered one of the Mexico contract over run receivers. I'm going to take you at your word, that you're here to address and correct the issues with DSA receivers.
While I'm not the perfectionist Mark is, I can tell when a receiver is too buggered to build on, without professional machine work, by a professional gun smith. I'm a home builder, because I like to build and shoot these rifles as a hobby.
If I buy a new manufactured receiver, advertised as the only one made to original FN blue prints, I expect it should build as easy as a Imbel. If such is the case with the incoming receiver, I'll certainly post the results on this board. If in fact, it turns out to be buggered and needing rework, do I return it, wait for 3 to 6 months, then recieve it back un-touched and with the same issues as the last time I? Or will you, as DSA's rep, ensure it is returned to me in a buildable condition, without my having to pay shipping and such, like last time.
Just asking in advance, so I know how whether to send it back to DSA, or to Mark. Either way the wait will likely be the same, but I at least know when I get it back from Mark, it'll be repaired correctly.

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 15:40
This account was set up in 2011 when we last considered being active on here also we do not release names because it's a company account the poster/s may change from time to time. I am sorry but you will just have to deal with that situation for now if you can't I understand but it is what it is.

An official company statement and an official company point of contact will be given next week along with exciting news for fal files members. If you want to disregard my posts that's fine it's your call.



Ether way You will have an official point of contact next week. Until then call DSA and ask for customer service they will do their best with questions on orders and products. Have a great weekend!!


Unless you change people every sixty seconds, a first name, which any of us can call right now through the DSA switch board, to confirm you are who you say you are, without giving that out, right now, means you are a complete fraud.

Go back to your mama's basement.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 15:47
Against my better judgment, ordered one of the Mexico contract over run receivers. I'm going to take you at your word, that you're here to address and correct the issues with DSA receivers.
While I'm not the perfectionist Mark is, I can tell when a receiver is too buggered to build on, without professional machine work, by a professional gun smith. I'm a home builder, because I like to build and shoot these rifles as a hobby.
If I buy a new manufactured receiver, advertised as the only one made to original FN blue prints, I expect it should build as easy as a Imbel. If such is the case with the incoming receiver, I'll certainly post the results on this board. If in fact, it turns out to be buggered and needing rework, do I return it, wait for 3 to 6 months, then recieve it back un-touched and with the same issues as the last time I? Or will you, as DSA's rep, ensure it is returned to me in a buildable condition, without my having to pay shipping and such, like last time.
Just asking in advance, so I know how whether to send it back to DSA, or to Mark. Either way the wait will likely be the same, but I at least know when I get it back from Mark, it'll be repaired correctly.

We hear your concerns and we will be addressing this concern next week at this time we are going to wait till we release our company statement and point of contact so our customers will have a clear and concise understanding of why we want to come back on here and stay on here. We would like to refrain from childish behavior and after we make an official announcement expect that till then no new info on this account will be posted. Have a great weekend!!!

Off to my mother's basement she's dead so no meatloaf tonight.

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 16:20
We hear your concerns and we will be addressing this concern next week at this time we are going to wait till we release our company statement and point of contact so our customers will have a clear and concise understanding of why we want to come back on here and stay on here. We would like to refrain from childish behavior and after we make an official announcement expect that till then no new info on this account will be posted. Have a great weekend!!!

Off to my mother's basement she's dead so no meatloaf tonight.

Complete fraud!

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 16:22
Complete fraud!

Okay thanks

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 16:44
I just got off the phone with the with the Customer Service Director at DSA Arms.

His name is Mike and can be reached at (847) 277-7258

And he is not posting this shit!

opps!

Someone is in trouble!!!!!!!:D

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 16:54
I just got off the phone with the with the Customer Service Director at DSA Arms.

His name is Mike and can be reached at (847) 277-7258

And he is not posting this shit!

opps!

Someone is in trouble!!!!!!!:D

Okay thanks for the update

Trypcil
December 07, 2017, 16:58
There have many points indicated as to 'issues' with DSA's receivers in this thread, please DSarms Rep analyse them, this is feed back(however presented) - ego aside, and see what high ground we can take here.
The 'Fal Hive', represents the 'Home' sales base for DSa. Just about anyone serious about their Fal, comes here - to learn from what really is a wealth of empirical experience, from savvy and worldly gentlemen - any disrespect, is always a symptom of something else, so please be patient - help us, help you make a better product, for us all.

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 16:58
Okay thanks for the update

What, not wanting to run off at your mouth now, words leave ya??????

Not wanting to run off about how fugged up people are that build rifles????

IF you do work for DSA you might wish to take a course in how to win friends and influence people, because you failed the first go around.

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 17:00
What, not wanting to run off at your mouth now, words leave ya??????

Not wanting to run off about how fugged up people are that build rifles????

IF you do work for DSA you might wish to take a course in how to win friends and influence people, because you failed the first go around.

Thanks for your opinion

DSARMS_REP
December 07, 2017, 17:02
There have many points indicated as to 'issues' with DSA's receivers in this thread, please DSarms Rep analyse them, this is feed back(however presented) - ego aside, and see what high ground we can take here.
The 'Fal Hive', represents the 'Home' sales base for DSa. Just about anyone serious about their Fal, comes here - to learn from what really is a wealth of empirical experience, from savvy and worldly gentlemen - any disrespect, is always a symptom of something else, so please be patient - help us, help you make a better product, for us all.


This is exactly what we are here for to analyze, Interp and reslove

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 17:08
The account opened this year, 2017 is in fact DSA, at least that is what they told me, the account from 2011, the Customer service director has no idea who is posting to that one, again, what I was just told over the phone.

gunplumber
December 07, 2017, 18:36
I put my real name on all my posts.
DSA's agents hide behind anonymity, with multiple people using a single user-name.

I am angry when DSA's agents lie about me.
DSA is angry when I tell the truth about them.

Curious, that. Must be a Chicago thing.

meltblown
December 07, 2017, 19:05
Man we need a dogpile emoji. I've never used anything but LMT DSA and have spent many $$$ on DSA. But seeing the posts here about recent uppers and having personally dealt with the mag issue, you are walking into a shitstorm.

As far as Graham, he pretty much helps anyone here who can be helped at no charge. He doesn't have a vendetta, but he tells it like it is. So you are digging a hole with the real builder types here.

yellowhand
December 07, 2017, 20:11
I put my real name on all my posts.
DSA's agents hide behind anonymity, with multiple people using a single user-name.

I am angry when DSA's agents lie about me.
DSA is angry when I tell the truth about them.

Curious, that. Must be a Chicago thing.

Well, this whole thing could have been handled with, thanks Mark for the information, we're going to take it and see what in the hell happened, and will make it right for our customers.

Attacking the bearer of bad news, is simply a bad business model.
Doing it in public on a forum like this, is plain old stuck on stupid.:rofl:

308/223shooter
December 07, 2017, 20:17
There have many points indicated as to 'issues' with DSA's receivers in this thread, please DSarms Rep analyse them, this is feed back(however presented) - ego aside, and see what high ground we can take here.
The 'Fal Hive', represents the 'Home' sales base for DSa. Just about anyone serious about their Fal, comes here - to learn from what really is a wealth of empirical experience, from savvy and worldly gentlemen - any disrespect, is always a symptom of something else, so please be patient - help us, help you make a better product, for us all.

Not just the Files either, I meet plenty people who want a FAL, or want theirs fixed. SO the customer base is a lot larger than just this group of wankers.
If DSA can permanently fix their manufacturing issues, the members here WILL begin buying a lot more receivers, and quit starting flame threads regarding the problems encountered.

The Pigpen
December 07, 2017, 20:49
Not just the Files either, I meet plenty people who want a FAL, or want theirs fixed. SO the customer base is a lot larger than just this group of wankers.
If DSA can permanently fix their manufacturing issues, the members here WILL begin buying a lot more receivers, and quit starting flame threads regarding the problems encountered.

The issues noted in this and other threads are what have kept me from buying a DSA and building the kit im trying to sell right now.
If I knew the receiver I purchased would be hassle free i'd most likely be building a gun right now instead of trying to pimp a kit.

308/223shooter
December 07, 2017, 20:56
The issues noted in this and other threads are what have kept me from buying a DSA and building the kit im trying to sell right now.
If I knew the receiver I purchased would be hassle free i'd most likely be building a gun right now instead of trying to pimp a kit.


Buy a Imbel or Argie receiver, do your build and enjoy your rifle. If DSA ever get's thier house in order, you can rebuild your kit on the receiver type you wanted in the first place.

Bama Steve
December 07, 2017, 22:16
I've always just dreamed about assembling this unissued Austrian STG-58 on an out of spec Mexican stamped domestic upper receiver, but now I can't.

Life is GOOD!

:wink:

raubvogel
December 08, 2017, 21:00
Clearly, there is no love lost between Mark and DSA, :fencing:
but ...

For as long as they do not decide to go to Greco-Roman style fighting wearing the original attire -- none at all -- I will be ok.

yellowhand
December 09, 2017, 01:06
At least whomever was posting the crap from DSA on their old account got told to STFU!
Nothing today, a good sign, maybe, will the adults now take over the new DSA account????;)

DSARMS_REP
December 09, 2017, 08:42
Thanks for the update At least whomever was posting the crap from DSA on their old account got told to STFU!
Nothing today, a good sign, maybe, will the adults now take over the new DSA account????;)

gunplumber
December 09, 2017, 09:51
be a man and handle this like a man ... and act like a man ...I challenge you

Says the pussy afraid to reveal his (or her) real name.

DSARMS_REP
December 09, 2017, 10:07
Thanks for the updateSays the pussy afraid to reveal his (or her) real name.

hkshooter
December 09, 2017, 11:06
Says the pussy afraid to reveal his (or her) real name.

I get your point.
At the same time, I don't care what the guys name is. As long as he backs up the claims and promises he's making with results he's ok in my book. This has yet to be determined.
I do have to say the bull in the China shop way in which he came into the forums lacks professionalism and therefore casts doubt in my mind as to his real purpose. But I'm willing to withold judgement until he has a chance to prove himself. I once gave DL props for coming here and trying to help while taking a lot of crap. His lies, bullshit, and eventual attacks finally brought an end to any credibility he ever had.
I can give this new anonymous character the same chance.

4x401
December 09, 2017, 12:56
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Trypcil
December 09, 2017, 13:56
So - what might be a definitive list of 'issues' with DSa receivers, such that DSa-rep can get his mantle on, and be allowed to set in progress the rectification of said issues?

4x401
December 09, 2017, 14:14
So - what might be a definitive list of 'issues' with DSa receivers, such that DSa-rep can get his mantle on, and be allowed to set in progress the rectification of said issues?

I applaud your optimism, really. 😁

yellowhand
December 09, 2017, 15:23
Thanks for the update

Damn, it came back!:facepalm:

Just proves it's not connected to DSA, or its some asshole that is above the actual DSA customer service Director I spoke too who is looking at all this.

Now that is Interesting.:D

DSARMS_REP
December 09, 2017, 15:27
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend

yellowhand
December 09, 2017, 15:31
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend

Here is what you're doing around here, have a great weekend.:rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq8LUEZ4Go

DSARMS_REP
December 09, 2017, 15:38
[QUOTE=yellowhand;4511548]Here is what you're doing around here, have a great weekend.:rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq8LUEZ4Go[/QUOTE

Thanks for the update

4x401
December 09, 2017, 15:52
Here is what you're doing around here, have a great weekend.:rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKq8LUEZ4Go


Just a thought. Maybe give the guy the opportunity to make good on his promises?
There will be plenty of time down the road to flog the "REP", if the status quo remains the same.

Your incessant badgering is looking a bit childish.....and redundant. :shrug:

Trypcil
December 09, 2017, 17:39
I applaud your optimism, really. ��

....."more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members." Dsa

Well - Indentify the issues, consider them - rectify recurrence! Surely simple? Well the list could be reduced specifically to:- requires Machining, or requires wescog ingenuity! Thus, so that QC procedures could be centred about those issues, in indentification, such that offending items don't slip thru', and resulting in..... well whats going on here and now!
It has to be a QC issue, by the People meter, as an intermittent and sloppy in part procedure. The devil is always in the detail, and ignorance of the importance of detail - is that it will come back and bite you!
The admission that there is a new approach to the QC process, by DSARep, will be indicative that progress is being made - but proof is ultimately in the pudding! Our part would be to clean up our 'verbage and attitudes' and perhaps - can ultimately give endorsement. The Fal-file Stamp of Approval.

;)

yellowhand
December 09, 2017, 18:13
Just a thought. Maybe give the guy the opportunity to make good on his promises?
There will be plenty of time down the road to flog the "REP", if the status quo remains the same.

Your incessant badgering is looking a bit childish.....and redundant. :shrug:

Read up and thru this, this one is said by DSA not to belong to them and DSA says it ain't them.
If you can believe the fellow that is the Director of Customer service for DSA that I spoke too.:facepalm:

There are two here with DSA names, the one from 2017 is claimed to be from DSA.

OLDMANPBK
December 09, 2017, 18:23
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend

Slick video. Looks like you're trying to head in the right direction. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

DSARMS_REP
December 09, 2017, 19:13
Read up and thru this, this one is said by DSA not to belong to them and DSA says it ain't them.
If you can believe the fellow that is the Director of Customer service for DSA that I spoke too.:facepalm:

There are two here with DSA names, the one from 2017 is claimed to be from DSA.

Thanks for the update

4x401
December 09, 2017, 19:19
Read up and thru this, this one is said by DSA not to belong to them and DSA says it ain't them.
If you can believe the fellow that is the Director of Customer service for DSA that I spoke too.:facepalm:

There are two here with DSA names, the one from 2017 is claimed to be from DSA.

I've read everything here friend, and reiterate what I posted.:shrug:

hkshooter
December 09, 2017, 20:07
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend

You should heat treat the castings before you cut them, sometimes the heat treating process can change the part and throw off all the measurements. Subtle, but enough to cause all kinds of issues for the end user.
The shop I worked in made bolt actions from heat treated 17-4 blanks and it worked perfectly.

308/223shooter
December 09, 2017, 21:25
You should heat treat the castings before you cut them, sometimes the heat treating process can change the part and throw off all the measurements. Subtle, but enough to cause all kinds of issues for the end user.
The shop I worked in made bolt actions from heat treated 17-4 blanks and it worked perfectly.

It is more cost effective { cheaper } to heat treat after the machining process, as the wear and tear on cutting tools is increased, after the heat treatment of the work piece.

hkshooter
December 09, 2017, 21:51
It is more cost effective { cheaper } to heat treat after the machining process, as the wear and tear on cutting tools is increased, after the heat treatment of the work piece.

Absolutely true.
Unless more time and tools need to be spent correcting the part after the heat treat.

Always an option, tossing out of spec parts out to the consumer. Kind of what's been going on already. That people don't like.

gunplumber
December 10, 2017, 09:45
I get your point.
At the same time, I don't care what the guys name is.

When he admits that multiple users are on the account, it matters.

For example, if the disgraced corrupt cop and stolen-valor fake commando R1shooter is using this account in addition to his own, both user names must be banned in accordance with longstanding rules.

I agree that from a legal perspective, it doesn't really matter. DSA is liable for the slander and defamation committed by all of its agents and representatives, regardless of what forum they use.

DSARMS_REP was Nikki (Not Nichole, who wasn't working for DSA at that time) in April of 2011. (She?) referred to me as "GP is one of the best on military guns for sure" This is when (she?) admitted that their QC was not up to standard, and was put on notice (again) that the V2.0 mags were fundamentally defective - by the way, DSA still sells them, it's The Chicago Way. (she?)

So if this is the same DSARMS_REP who was trolling the Coonan post, none-too-subtly mocking them for being "cast", it puts the current assertions on their own cast receiver in context.

So yeah, in keeping track of which of DSA's agents and representatives are telling what lies and what slanders at what time . . . maybe it does matter, even though legally it all falls on Dave's lap.

I just find it deliciously ironic that the same chest-thumper(s) who try to act all macho, don't have the courage to use their real names.

At least when DSA's rep Marc made interstate threats of violence against me, the knuckle-dragger used his own name. And even in "too corrupt for Chicago PD" Daniel's drunken ravings, challenging me to a fist fight, he used his real name. Danny-boy may be a drunken lout, and stolen valor fake commando, but at least he's not the pussy that the current iteration of DSARMS-REP is.

308/223shooter
December 11, 2017, 17:38
Has anyone else noticed how foul these smell? Don't know what DSA uses for a preservative, but my FFL says he'll no longer open my packages till I'm there to pick it up. Even in the trunk, it's reaking out my car

Tgeorgi2002
December 11, 2017, 19:36
Has anyone else noticed how foul these smell? Don't know what DSA uses for a preservative, but my FFL says he'll no longer open my packages till I'm there to pick it up. Even in the trunk, it's reaking out my car


Covered in bullshit?

308/223shooter
December 11, 2017, 19:43
Well, so far the mag fit passes. Barrel timed fine. Then I found the bolt carrier binds in the rails about a half inch before the chamber. It'll close if I force it, then have to pry it open.
It's fixable, but for what I'm into it with tax and transfer, I could get a Imbel used or otherwais for anuther couple bills and not have to muck about with hand fitting the most expensive part.
I'm not going to return it. I've dealt with that scenario before and don't want the wait and bullsjit.
I'll make this one work, and relegate it to "beater trunk gun".
I've learned my lesson this time, I swear it.

gunplumber
December 11, 2017, 19:52
the bolt carrier binds in the rails about a half inch before the chamber.

Check for a "step" on the front of the rail - a common defect of DSA receivers. Best removed from front before barrel install.

Note - when testing for bolt carrier fit with the bolt, pull the extractor and screw the barrel in to hand tight. Otherwise the bolt can go too far forward and interfere with proper lockup, giving a false "fail" reading (binding).

308/223shooter
December 11, 2017, 21:21
Yah, got that sorted, except now the bolt group won't come close to closing on a .253. Gauge. To be sure, this is the last DSA receiver I buy that isn't a early forged. Actualy, **** it. I'm sticking with Imbels.

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 01:21
Yah, got that sorted, except now the bolt group won't come close to closing on a .253. Gauge. To be sure, this is the last DSA receiver I buy that isn't a early forged. Actualy, **** it. I'm sticking with Imbels.

And on that note, I'm so bloody disgusted with this thing, I'm ready to sell it as a barreled action with bolt and carrier. The barrel is the SLR CB proofed one I had in the MP, with the XM-177 style flash hider. I'll post pics tomorrow and in the market place, as I'm too pissed to deal with it tonight.

DSARMS_REP, take note. From the DSA web site:

D.S. Arms Inc. manufactures the (ENTIRE) FN FAL 7.62mm rifle system in the United States utilizing new tooling, improved materials and modernized processes.

DSA FAL rifles are completely interchangeable with the original F.N. metric FAL. DSA also produces spare parts and proprietary accessories for the FAL. DSA is not just a partsset assembler like others, but actually fabricates every FAL part in house and through carefully selected qualified long term vendors.


Marked 7.62x51mm Caliber.
Made in the U.S.A. by craftsmen, the U.S.A. Gold Standard FAL Receiver.
Precision CNC machined out of 4140 steel using original FN and Steyr blueprints.
Fully heat-treated, not just induction.
Features a Mil-Spec manganese phosphate finish.
Semi Auto 2 piece ejector block installed.
Unbeatable Lifetime warranty and quality.
Over 70,000 manufactured to date.

Manufactured by DSArms - All parts U.S. made!

I'm not a professional gunsmith. I'm a home builder who enjoys building and shooting the FN FAL. I've built my kits on Entreprise, Coonan, DSA, Century and even a Hesse receiver. Aside from the Hesse, this DSA receiver has been the most problematic for me.
How can DSA advertise these are manufactured to the same design specifications as the original FN and Styer blue prints, when they need so much hand fitting just so the bloody bolt carrier will fit the receiver rails?
I wanted to see for myself if these were a good product for the price. In my humble opinion sir, they are not. I'm certain if Mark charged by the hour to build on your receivers, the end cost to the consumer would make these a nearly $600.00 part, which is in the realm of a IN SPEC. FORGED receiver.
While the DSA alloy lowers and para stock parts, and railed cover are quality, the heart of the rifle, the receiver, as made by DSA, is not a good value for the home builder.
I implore you, as the company rep, to tell Dave to get his companies shit together, and fix the problems with his receivers. A lifetime no bull shit warranty is worth just that, bull shit, if the product is no good.
My name is Rich, and I'm a FALaholic.

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 01:21
Bump for my experience with the Mexican contract overrun receivers.
Mark, add this serial to your list of defective receivers. This one from the Mexican contract over run. DSA31962

gunplumber
December 12, 2017, 08:11
DSA FAL rifles are completely interchangeable with the original F.N. metric FAL. DSA also produces spare parts and proprietary accessories for the FAL. DSA is not just a partsset assembler like others, b


How can DSA advertise these are manufactured to the same design specifications as the original FN and Styer blue prints, when they need so much hand fitting just so the bloody bolt carrier will fit the receiver rails?

How can they? (C'mon everyone, get ready for it . . .. . . here it comes . .. . all together now . . . . )

"It's The Chicago Way".

Yet their customers still need a "partsset (sic) assembler" like me to re-machine their receivers so the correct FN parts will fit.

DSA has been knowingly selling defective parts for years - why would you expect them to stop now?

ftierson
December 12, 2017, 11:05
As they say, the best predictor of the future is the past...

Forrest

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 14:16
This is what sours me on any further DSA receiver purchase. They MUST be aware of the problem, so much so in fact, my guess is the "contract over run" is actually a attempt to recoup investment on defective parts. They can't use these receivers for the contract, which means they must replace them with good receivers. So what to do? Dump them on the market, and hope enough of them are "just good enough" to avoid any warranty backlash.
I like this comment Mark;

"I don't know, because I have to do the build to find the problems. If it's already barreled, then I have to pull the barrel, which is more work than starting with a virgin build. So I don't know that I can do it for less than the cost of a complete build. It would start at the $350 rebuild price.

What has been helpful about doing them in sequence, and writing everything down (instead of just cursing, sputtering, and kicking the wall), is that now I can anticipate problems, rather than discovering them at the testfire range and losing all that work.

I have not yet charged extra for DSA builds, but it looks like I'm either going to have a "Out-of-spec DSA surcharge" or charge everyone more and then offer a discount for IMBELs, LMTs, or other quality in-spec receivers. It is currently costing me over $150 in shop time - above the price of the build - to correct or work around DSA's defects. And that does not count the days of experimenting I did to work out these techniques. I can't continue to eat those expenses.

GF suggested last night, that a pattern of defects across multiple people in multiple states, is a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen. But I don't want DSA sued out of business for their defective crap - I want their defective crap fixed!

And the part that has me so angry and frustrated and disappointed, is I perform all these checks in 5 minutes on a virgin receiver, with a couple factory parts, and a few home-made gauges. Just like I taught Entreprise when they flew out to have me evaluate their last receiver run. I gave them all the different GO/NOGO options for checking a receiver. Nothing fancy, just methodical and disciplined procedures. But they apparently never bothered to use them!

While quality control checks will reveal problems, they don't change The Chicago Way. DSA needs a cultural change, starting with Dave. He has knowingly and willingly shipped defective products for a long time. Nothing is going to change until the man at the top is replaced by someone with integrity. And if the board of directors is unwilling to do that (because they too represent The Chicago Way), there will be no change.

Or someone else needs to come along and make good receivers. But I doubt it would be profitable anymore. But any serious contender can have all the tech support I've collected over the years."
__________________
The $350.00 additional price to deal with correcting defects, providing the receiver isn't too warped, would run the cost up to $650.00 for one of these current parts. One could buy a Imbel or LMT for that price, and not have to deal with the bullshit. This is not worth it in my opinion, nor is the extra amount of time to do the hand work at home, which I wouldn't have to do if the bloody receiver was as advertised, you know "made to original design specifications."

308/223shooter
December 12, 2017, 14:17
Thanks for the update

PM sent, regarding the receiver I just purchased from DSA.

fireplug
December 12, 2017, 18:01
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrNgJWX8vxE


Here is a link to the upper receiver video more details on the steps we are taking and changes we are making will be addressed in a company statement that should be posted next week along with a point of contact for fal files members

Thanks everyone have a great weekend
Give DSA another chance and see where it goes from there,maybe they really will fix the issues.

1911Ron
December 12, 2017, 18:14
Give DSA another chance and see where it goes from there,maybe they really will fix the issues.

How many chances should we give them?

Trypcil
December 12, 2017, 18:18
Enough or don't buy - they want our business, and our endorsement - the customer is always right?

fireplug
December 14, 2017, 09:54
How many chances should we give them?
As many chances as the Fal File members gave Johnny (Moses)too ship the magazines everyone paid for.

308/223shooter
December 14, 2017, 11:39
As many chances as the Fal File members gave Johnny (Moses)too ship the magazines everyone paid for.

Not defending Moses here, but he went sideways all at once. And he delivered a quality product that works. DSA has had YEARS to make things right, and has many, many more dissatisfied customers. So far, nothing has changed.

ftierson
December 14, 2017, 13:11
As many chances as the Fal File members gave Johnny (Moses)too ship the magazines everyone paid for.

I'm trying to get a handle on your thought process.

You are the one hammering on Moses for his performance on mags (not unjustified, for sure), but are supporting DSA's abysmal performance over a relatively long period of time with their receivers here?

Just trying to put things in perspective in my mind...

Forrest

fireplug
December 15, 2017, 00:54
I'm trying to get a handle on your thought process.

You are the one hammering on Moses for his performance on mags (not unjustified, for sure), but are supporting DSA's abysmal performance over a relatively long period of time with their receivers here?

Just trying to put things in perspective in my mind...

Forrest
Well for one thing Dsa is actually still active on this site and answering questions,moses never answered anything and commited theft on a lot of guys,which Dsa has not.So maybe you can wrap your head around that thought.Forrest

idsubgun
December 15, 2017, 11:07
Well for one thing Dsa is actually still active on this site and answering questions,moses never answered anything and commited theft on a lot of guys,which Dsa has not.So maybe you can wrap your head around that thought.Forrest

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest but anyone selling a product that has known defects, is committing theft.


Also, this is a thread about DSA defective receivers so let's keep it to that subject. Moses mags has it's own thread.
And I totally understand about being pissed about those mags. That is theft as well.

4x401
December 15, 2017, 13:19
What he said..^^^^^^;

mp
December 15, 2017, 14:11
I'm not trying to start a pissing contest but anyone selling a product that has known defects, is committing theft.


Also, this is a thread about DSA defective receivers so let's keep it to that subject. Moses mags has it's own thread.
And I totally understand about being pissed about those mags. That is theft as well.

Not technically correct. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have pushed out defective cars for years. Then there is a recall, and they are brought in for repair on the automakers dime. Never, that I know of, have any of the automakers been charged with "theft" in this type of instance. If DSA refused to honor their warranty, then it would be more "theft" like. Pretty sure I saw reference to a DSA having a receiver recall. And a bolt recall, and numerous other recalls.

I am not sticking up for DSA. Their QC sucks--we all know it. They are creating a product in which tools wear out, mounts can slip, etc. Every receiver I have received from them (all cast), I have been able to make run. Maybe I am lucky? We will see what the Mexico receiver I ordered will bring. Reading the Mexico thread, I see two individuals with three bad receivers. How many hundreds do you think DSA has sold during this contract overrun sale? With tool wear out, and tombstone jigs milling 14 receivers per, there are bound to be machining errors.

1911Ron
December 15, 2017, 14:52
Not technically correct. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have pushed out defective cars for years. Then there is a recall, and they are brought in for repair on the automakers dime. Never, that I know of, have any of the automakers been charged with "theft" in this type of instance. If DSA refused to honor their warranty, then it would be more "theft" like. Pretty sure I saw reference to a DSA having a receiver recall. And a bolt recall, and numerous other recalls.

I am not sticking up for DSA. Their QC sucks--we all know it. They are creating a product in which tools wear out, mounts can slip, etc. Every receiver I have received from them (all cast), I have been able to make run. Maybe I am lucky? We will see what the Mexico receiver I ordered will bring. Reading the Mexico thread, I see two individuals with three bad receivers. How many hundreds do you think DSA has sold during this contract overrun sale? With tool wear out, and tombstone jigs milling 14 receivers per, there are bound to be machining errors.

Machining errors are to be expected, little to no QC and sending out defective products is not.

hkshooter
December 15, 2017, 18:33
Not technically correct. Ford, Chevy, and Dodge have pushed out defective cars for years. Then there is a recall, and they are brought in for repair on the automakers dime. Never, that I know of, have any of the automakers been charged with "theft" in this type of instance. If DSA refused to honor their warranty, then it would be more "theft" like. Pretty sure I saw reference to a DSA having a receiver recall. And a bolt recall, and numerous other recalls.

I am not sticking up for DSA. Their QC sucks--we all know it. They are creating a product in which tools wear out, mounts can slip, etc. Every receiver I have received from them (all cast), I have been able to make run. Maybe I am lucky? We will see what the Mexico receiver I ordered will bring. Reading the Mexico thread, I see two individuals with three bad receivers. How many hundreds do you think DSA has sold during this contract overrun sale? With tool wear out, and tombstone jigs milling 14 receivers per, there are bound to be machining errors.

Machining errors are to be expected, little to no QC and sending out defective products is not.

This.
Errors happen. Letting them out of the plant is BS, shitty QC, and completely avoidable. I know, I worked in a machine shop. Knowing product leaving the docks is defective is an insult to the consumer and shows the company really doesn't give a rats anus. It also shows complete disrespect for their own company because it costs money to correct returns and damages their reputation. It's cheaper to do it right the first time and not let defects get out in high numbers.
Whether or not it's theft is for others to argue.

2112
December 15, 2017, 22:01
It is more cost effective { cheaper } to heat treat after the machining process, as the wear and tear on cutting tools is increased, after the heat treatment of the work piece.
YEA ,
CUTTING 4140 WITH A ROCKWELL HARDNESS OF 35-40 IS EXTREMELY COST PROHIBITIVE ON MANUFACTURING.

muff muff
April 17, 2018, 12:25
I hate to revive an old thread, but I'd rather do that than start a completely new one...

I have a DSA Type 1 forged (SN 34847) built on one of Mark's Imbel kits that isn't allowing mgazines to seat completely, and causing rounds to vomit out of the magazine upon insertion. The rounds vomiting is being caused by the pin that pushes the mag follower down when it's empty not having enough wiggle room to move between the cases as they advance upwards. I plan on filling that pin down to fit, simple enough. The magazine issue is a little more complex though. They can be inserted and seated, loaded of course, with a slight audible click and enough friction to feed somewhat reliably. However, randomly upon recoil, there is enough impulse to unseat and drop the magazine. Can the magazine catch be filed and fitted on the backside a bit to protrude forward more at the top for better engagement with the magazine lug, or is this more of a "not enough room in the front recess" issue?

gunplumber
April 17, 2018, 12:34
Your receiver, like virtually every other one I've had in the last (2?)years, is defective in the front. Filing down the mag catch, which is a CORRECT part, will allow perhaps, the mag to latch, but will now be holding it too low in the back (bolt over base) - it also crushes the front of the mag to force it in from the rear. Since DSA obviously doesn't give a shit because Dave knowingly continues to sell these defective receivers, I see no alternative but to get it opened up in the front. You'll also need to cut the notch deeper. This has been the most difficult part for me, as I cannot find the optimal cutter, so I use a key cutter, and then move the receiver forward while moving the cutter down (receiver is upside down) to get the conical portion. I need to look into getting some custom cutters made, but KEO has doubled their prices.

I've got about 20 more receiver checksheets I need to put into Excell or something. Most have mag fit and e-block fit as FAIL. Fortunately, I've got the machining down, but quality cutters aren't cheap.

muff muff
April 18, 2018, 09:42
After tinkering with it a bit more last night, I actually discovered that it's the magazine catch screw "causing" the issue. The receiver being out of spec is the root cause, but not in the area of the magwrll not being milled out enough. Milsurp magazines fit fine and I have no feeding issues. It turns out that the holes drilled out for the magazine catch screw aren't aligned, causing the magazine catch to depress about halfway when the screw is completely tightened, thus not allowing the magazine to lock completely. Backing the screw out far enough to where it doesn't go completely through the hole on the other side of the receiver gives the magazine catch it's full range of motion, allowing magazines to lock in with an authoritative click. No feeding issues just cycling rounds either, but the range will be the ultimate test of that. It's upsetting to know that the receiver is out of spec, but I'm glad that I have a workaround with a few washers, and maybe filing the end of the screw down a bit, instead of needing machine work on the receiver.

gunplumber
April 18, 2018, 10:55
Had this problem on a DSA L1A1 also - and they knew it was defective when they sold it, because they tired to enlarged the hole on the right side of the receiver to compensate for it being out of alignment. Just not enough. I welded it in and redrilled correctly.

Also, check the back of the ejector block behind the mag catch. See that triangular protrusion? Take that down to flush - it limits the mag catch travel.

I think photos of these issues are in the L1A1 receiver review thread.

muff muff
April 18, 2018, 12:21
I'll check it out this evening.

muff muff
April 30, 2018, 11:59
Little late on the follow up, but I hadn't gotten to go to the range in a while on account of getting married...

Other than a case head separation on the very first shot with Remington UMC (never buying that crap again) and a couple bolt over base malfunctions when I was tuning the gas system, the rifle functioned 100% with the rest of the Remington UMC, Federal American Eagle, Federal XM80C, and Monarch after performing the fixes mentioned in my previous posts above.

ftierson
April 30, 2018, 17:38
Little late on the follow up, but I hadn't gotten to go to the range in a while on account of getting married...

Other than a case head separation on the very first shot with Remington UMC (never buying that crap again) and a couple bolt over base malfunctions when I was tuning the gas system, the rifle functioned 100% with the rest of the Remington UMC, Federal American Eagle, Federal XM80C, and Monarch after performing the fixes mentioned in my previous posts above.

Congratulations on your marriage! :)

Forrest