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View Full Version : How much is a preban springfield G3 stamped hellenic greek made rifle worth?


gauraprema
July 27, 2017, 00:09
The greek made G3 stamped rifle with no made in greece stamp,just G3 7.62 and springfield armory on one side.I have been told that there are only 200 of these imported. How much would one of these sell for?These are the ones that came in before the sar-3 and sar8-overstamp on 3)and sar-8 that wsnt overstamped.The one im looking at is unfired preban and having been imported by springfield has the lifetime gaurantee.Any and all help is welcomed.

gauraprema
July 28, 2017, 23:25
pm me if you dont want public posting

hkshooter
July 29, 2017, 06:48
The market is very fluid on these. Because they are so rare they usually approach HK91 prices given the same condition. But most feel why buy an SA when I can get an HK for the same price. My opinion goes as such:

Early G3 stamped, "made in greece" or not, $2200
SAR3, $2000
SAR3/8 over stamp, $1800
SAR8 w/intact barrel and pinned muzzle junk, $1600
SAR8 w/cut barrel and fake hider, $1300

The SA G3s have really become collector items because of the low numbers imported so thought should be given to the purpose of the rifle and what you are going to do with it. If I wanted a shooter there's no way I'd pay collector prices.

The above are my opinions. Prices are quoted for NIB rifles, adjust accordingly for condition.

Edit: Regarding that "lifetime warranty", kiss that goodbye. First, you'd likely never need it. But second and more importantly, if the rifle fails SA most likely will not repair it and absolutely cannot replace it. So if it fails they'd most likely send you an M1A of "equal value".
Don't use the warranty as an item to justify a higher price.

pre1989
July 29, 2017, 13:08
I will second the above ..They will near the price of the 91 but prob wont top it as again why have a non german when you can get a german

And yeah what I have hear from at least people with the SAR48 guns is that if it breaks they dont have the parts or people to fix them and often the factory that made them is not around any more so they will just give you a M1A

gauraprema
July 29, 2017, 22:20
Ok thanks for the info.The rifle i saw has no box but it has been fired 1 ten round mag that came with the rifle I think but it may not.It looks new and has no greek import markings at all but says G3 7.62 and then spingfield armory on other side.Its got the fat forearm but no bipod which the forearm is made for.Im being asked to help sell it but I have no clue if anyone even wants one of these since the scar17s is out there now.Thanks for your replies.If anyone knos about these rifles and may want one pm me.

michael_g927
August 03, 2017, 21:54
I watch the SAR 3 rifles regularly. Just saw a 3 on GB close at 900 and change a few weeks ago. I have yet to see one sell for much more than a brand new PTR.
Rule of thumb here is the value is not the asking prices. Its the selling prices that dictate true market value. So when someone throws out a value, or asking price, you should have a history of selling trends (comps) to justify your max offer. You will find the two are nowhere near each other.

Grinder
August 04, 2017, 19:43
I watch the SAR 3 rifles regularly. Just saw a 3 on GB close at 900 and change a few weeks ago. I have yet to see one sell for much more than a brand new PTR.


Links ? You do know there is a difference in price between Greek rifles and the aluminum ones ?

hkshooter
August 04, 2017, 22:13
Yeah, post up some links.

gunplumber
August 05, 2017, 09:46
Me too. I'll buy Greek guns with any markings for $900 all day long - just show me where dey at.

Grinder
August 05, 2017, 11:07
Me too. I'll buy Greek guns with any markings for $900 all day long - just show me where dey at.

Great, Now your going to drive the price up to $950 :)

michael_g927
August 05, 2017, 23:22
Grinder, i would have guessed when someone specifically says "SAR3", its understood to mean sheetmetal EBO rifle, NOT aluminum SAI gun. In that case, i would NOT have said SAR3, but WOULD have said SAR8. Hope that clears up your confusion.
As for links, just watch Gunbriker and Armslist. These things cime up alot more than i would have ever imagined. Sometimes guys list em with those inflated over the rainbow prices. Those auctions always close with out a single bid.

gauraprema
August 06, 2017, 15:51
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/678193177
a overstamp

michael_g927
August 06, 2017, 18:12
The current (and as far back as i can remember) trend is that at this price the auction will close without a single bid.

Grinder
August 06, 2017, 18:27
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/678193177
a overstamp

That is not original, unfortunately

Grinder
August 06, 2017, 18:39
Grinder, i would have guessed when someone specifically says "SAR3", its understood to mean sheetmetal EBO rifle, NOT aluminum SAI gun. In that case, i would NOT have said SAR3, but WOULD have said SAR8. Hope that clears up your confusion.
As for links, just watch Gunbriker and Armslist. These things cime up alot more than i would have ever imagined. Sometimes guys list em with those inflated over the rainbow prices. Those auctions always close with out a single bid.

I wasn't confused at all. I have never seen a preban SAR 3 go for under 1500, with most at least 1800. They only made 400 or so. It's your wild numbers that are confusing. Armslist is mostly scammers when the prices are low, so those prices are out. The last 4 SAR 8 overstamps which I know sold were 985 (painted with fake brake), 1400, 1285 and 1300. If you do actually find a nice SAR 3 or 8 for that 900 price, I will gladly give you a nice finders fee.

The last G3 marked I saw sell went for $2000

michael_g927
August 06, 2017, 22:51
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/676179228

Here is one ending in 45 minutes. Probably been on GB 5 or 6 days. Starting price of $1250. Unless someone is thinking of sniping this ole girl at the 10 second mark, it will likely close with 0, ZERO bids.
Even tho EBO guns are considered great licensed clones, the market takes into account that the G3 like the G1, have fallen from favor in the modern market place amoung new shooters. It wont be many years and these fine old rifles will go the way of the revolver in popularity and value. They will be C&R relics like the Garand. This will be truer as parts and mags dry up.
Why would a guy buy an SAR G3,3, 3/8, or 8 that is three decades old, 30 years old with zero factory support when for the same $$ and usually just a bit more $$ he can get a new PTR with full warranty and factory support?
Now before the whiners get their panties in a bunch, you need to know that i am not bashing these excellent rifles or any rifle made to this excellent design. The SAR rifles are my all time favorites. Way more so than the SAI M1A. BUT....
Just as the cowboy and indian kids have nearly died off so to now are the soldier of fortune kids. With the new designs out performing these 70 year old designs its a matter of time when the only real market left will be collectors. Example, most shooters know nothing of a 1927 Thompson nor would they invest in one. Auto Ordinance annual serial number blocks are very small compared to PTR, whos numbers are miniscule compared to (just add modern design rifle mfg name here).
And this is why the selling prices of these designs are nowhere near what many think they should be.

michael_g927
August 06, 2017, 23:14
And as the trend has shown, the auction mentioned above closed without a single bid. Once again proving that no matter how emotionally attached we are to something, the true value is only what the market will bare for it.
So if $1250 was too much for this one, i can only imagine how the other one mentioned here will fare.

FriendBesto
August 07, 2017, 01:11
The shortened barrel on that one makes it not worth the price in my book.
I would put the value of an overstamp with a normal length threaded barrel, non-pinned to begin with, and everything else looking like an HK91 at about $1400. FWIW of course.
A G3 stamped EBO would be considerably higher just because of the rarity.
MAC has a good video on why.

hkshooter
August 07, 2017, 07:45
A single example of a rifle that fails to sell on GB and that's how they all go. Interesting view.
And not a single link given of $900 SAR3s.


Right. I'll now base the value of all Greek rifles on your B.S. Wouldn't want to rip off anyone.

gunplumber
August 07, 2017, 07:53
A single example of a rifle that fails to sell on GB and that's how they all go. Interesting view.
And not a single link given of $900 SAR3s

When reading michael_g27 posts, remember that he is one of those members who lies a lot. Like Huey, with less verbosity (it is possible that he's just really stupid and not deliberately lying, but I don't think so).

michael_g927
August 07, 2017, 11:51
Anyone that calls you on YOUR lies is branded a liar. Yet your history shows you claiming awards that never happened as well as "Doing work for the HK museum". So i would stay as far away from throwing the lieing stones as possible if i were you mr. Graham.
As for the value thing. Interesting how i said this is the trend. And during the discussion of this thread, not just the one auction mentioned, but yet a second auction has ended confirming this selling trend. And somehow you have the audacity to call it "BS"?
I think these auctions confirm that either you guys are clueless or at the very least very, very outdated in your knowledge of pricing and values.
Either way, instead of admitting you are wrong (takes a big man to do so) just continue to sling crap at those that are right. After all, this is all you really have to fall back on.

AGG
August 07, 2017, 15:04
SA G3--- @ 500 imported, with the first @ 200 with no "MADE IN GREECE" (the lowest MIG that I have seen is 05196)!!! :)

Tony

hkshooter
August 07, 2017, 15:10
When reading michael_g27 posts, remember that he is one of those members who lies a lot. Like Huey, with less verbosity (it is possible that he's just really stupid and not deliberately lying, but I don't think so).

Thanks for the advice, I'll pay it heed. For a moment I was tempted to lend more credibility to his post than I should have, thanks for stopping me. :rofl:

michael_g927
August 07, 2017, 15:35
I guess even Mac was lieing. What did he say he paid? $1400, cant remember. But it was several hundred under your "expert" quote.
Lets look at his shall we? It was a 30 year old, new in box, unfired, still had the trigger tag on it, G3 marked, most desireable of em all. And it still costed only slightly more than a new PTR. So what are likely reasons for your aggressive reaction here?
1. You just dont know what you are talking about?
2. You are waay too deeply invested in your collection to accept its true value? Which is it?
Gunplumber is NOT a credible source of information. This is why he has NO interaction with ANY of the HK community. He is NOT respected. So if you continue to place your eggs in the Helen Keller basket i can only believe that option 1 is likely to be the truth in your case.
So a quick review here. Someone asked a value. You guys gave up poor information. I responded with logic and truth. Not one but two auctions to support my statement. You guys responded with insults and still no facts.
Next the plumber will come on here with foul language and more insults to the point the mods will have to delete his posts. Whilst at it they will delete mine as well because after all, they cant have their gold level donator shown to be ignorant of his own profession.
This is why you NEVER see him anywhere other than here. You see, his crap dont fly in the HK community. And he cant hang with guys that are the real deal.

michael_g927
August 07, 2017, 15:46
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/660716255

Heres more proof you guys are not te be taken seriousely.
You know my local HK shop does around 175 serial numbered weapons a year? Thats a pretty busy year for a real mfg with staff. When you guys get to that level, maybe then can your opinions be considered as respected as someone like Bill Flemming. Until then just hang around the Falfiles pushing your wrong info on guys that dont know any better.
Dont be butt hurt when you get called out on it though!

gunplumber
August 07, 2017, 16:04
Thanks for the advice, I'll pay it heed. For a moment I was tempted to lend more credibility to his post than I should have, thanks for stopping me. :rofl:

Yeah, he's like a petulant child tantruming whenever I call him on his bullshit. Really kindof sad. I bitchslap his lying ass when I notice his bullshit, but he keeps shrieking the same crap.

Knowing I've posted indisputable evidence proving his lies, it makes his screed unmitigated libel. He should be banned, but I guess the moderators know I'm too lazy to bring legal action.

The FalFiles is no place for such cowardly, shit-eating trolls who contribute nothing but biting at the heels of their betters.

michael_g927
August 07, 2017, 16:20
So you have spent all that time typing more insults yet adding no credible facts to support your position or even further this discussion. And as predicted, you are here with foul language and insults. Like i said, its all a smoke screen to distract attention from the fact you have been called out yet again.
And where in all of our conversations have you EVER answered just ONE of my questions on your vetting and experience? Much less ever give "undisputable" evedence of anything. Instead you divert and immediately dive down to insults and language becoming of someone far below the person you so desperately seek to convince folks you are.
Why would i be banned? Because i called out a gold level contributor? And exactly WHAT legal action could you possibly take? EVERYTHING i called you on is absolutely true.
If anything you better hope HK dont take legal action against you for claiming to not only do work for their museum but also claiming that you are an HK service and warranty agent. Hell, you aint even recognized as an HK retail dealer!
So until you have any credible statement to add to the discussion, i suggest you stay in your lane.

Nuttz
August 07, 2017, 17:52
https://cdn6.wn.com/o25/ph/img/cd/c9/606da29995cc658019ce56337f32-grande.jpg

medicmike
August 07, 2017, 20:28
http://i.imgur.com/FZDB7Tr.jpg

gunplumber
August 08, 2017, 09:21
Not a shitstorm, more a game of wack-a-mole.

Michael_g27 pops out of his hole from time to time, spewing bullshit; I smack upside the head with my cudgel.

It does get a little boring after a while. He really should be banned. Continuing his baseless libel after I have presented conclusive evidence of his lies, seems like something the FalFiles can do without.

michael_g927
August 08, 2017, 12:09
You sir have a serious bipolar view of reality. Allow me to recap. We have watched you for years self promote thru deception. This would not be too bad except you continually belittle others from your self made throne of falsehood and misrepresentation.
So eventually i began to call you out publically. At EVERY TURN your response is to delve into foul mouthed insults. You have NEVER NOT ONCE answered anydody's questions about the things you obviousely lie about. This is why others in the industry amusingly refer to you as a one man island.
Any 6th grader can read thru this thread and the ones prior, and clearly see you have seriouse problems with things like truth and reality.
And yet here you posted again with more insults all the while still NOT adding any proof to your opposition to the facts i have posted in this thread as well as all the others before.
I cant wait to see what you have added to the "Museum" thread. Lets see shall we!

michael_g927
August 08, 2017, 20:59
So back to the topic at hand. I have a perfect SAR4800. Even came with a British SUIT scope and mount. Guys here will praise that its a factory Imbel gun worth $1800. I disagree.
The 48s are not even anywhere that. I paid $1100 in Feb for my "lucky to have ever fired a full mag" safe queen.
Here is an auction, that like the SAR8 starting at $1525, will close without a single bid. Sadly they just are not bringin any real money when DSA is making a new factory warranteed rifle for less.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/679782836

michael_g927
August 12, 2017, 21:24
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/678193177
As predicted.

OLDMANPBK
August 12, 2017, 23:09
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/678193177
As predicted.

What am I missing here. I thought you said that this one wouldn't sell for $1525.

gunplumber
August 13, 2017, 10:39
What am I missing here. I thought you said that this one wouldn't sell for $1525.

Remember, he is a proven liar. Anything the piece of shit posts must be considered another of his lies.

hansellhd
August 13, 2017, 10:59
The Springfield series of SAR rifles (both FAL and G3) are far superior in build quality than any of their domestic competition (DSA/PTR). How do I know? I own and shoot both. To any shooter/collector they will always be worth more.

As far as Factory support goes you won't need it, they were built right the first time!

michael_g927
August 13, 2017, 11:02
The bid was the opening bid by the seller.
Gunplumber is quick to call me a liar when i publicly challenged his claims of self grandure. ALL OF WHICH HE NEVER ANSWERED. Not even one.
Still waiting on the whereabouts of this museum you dud your for. And now we are dieing to know just WHO your "guy" at HK is. You will not respond because you fabricated your post and you know i am connected enough to follow up and throw it out here for all to see.
So until you answer my questions (which are based upon your volunteered claims) you are understood to be the village idiot and no mind will be paid to you.

hansellhd
August 13, 2017, 11:14
I will second the above ..They will near the price of the 91 but prob wont top it as again why have a non german when you can get a german

And yeah what I have hear from at least people with the SAR48 guns is that if it breaks they dont have the parts or people to fix them and often the factory that made them is not around any more so they will just give you a M1A

What parts are breaking on SAR48 Rifles anyway? If it does break there are plenty of Metric parts available in the free world to repair.

OLDMANPBK
August 13, 2017, 11:15
The bid was the opening bid by the seller.

The bid was by Dragonkeep, not the seller.

gunplumber
August 13, 2017, 14:27
The bid was by Dragonkeep, not the seller.

(((snicker)))
I can be Captain Obvious here, and point out that michael_g927 is pretty stupid, as well as being a proven liar. That's the thing about being a "good" liar - one would need to have the brains to keep track of all the permutations of one's lies. Obviously, Michael hasn't the capacity. I guess that's why he continues to parrot his same, tired lies even after I bitch-slapped his lying ass with irrefutable evidence of his lies.

He screeches "GP doesn't do subcontract work for HK!" and I explain exactly how I was able to get my foot in the door, through a friend of a friend who was with the SAS before going to HK training, and got me the opportunity to prove the quality of my work.

He screeches "GP doesn't do subcontract work for HK!" and I post a copy of one of my 1099s.

He stamps his foot and crows "I'm in the know and GP doesn't do subcontract work for HK" and a post a few of the many MP5s and G3ks I have refinished for the repair department and Bob Schultz at training division, and the "HK Demo Only" marked gun for the HK Museum.

I attempt to assist another member with possible import data on some rare HKs, by sending an e-mail to one of my contacts. Michael wails "GP doesn't have any contacts at HK!" And when I post a copy of the reply, he wimpers - "you faked that e-mail and HK's privacy notice".

He brays "GP never won the 2007 Small Arms Review CLASS 2 GUNSMITH OF THE YEAR award," so I post a picture of the plaque. And the next day he's repeating the same lie.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Heck, I just got in a small batch of three position "F" retractable stocks from HK Training Division, on Friday for refinish (I guess there is universal distaste for the high gloss factory finish).

But he'll be back screeching the same lies, desperately seeking relevance. Out, out, brief candle! Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

Heck, it's not a big deal. I've done subcontract work for a number of other companies, including Dillon, Ruger, Harris McMillan, etc. They're all just people looking for good quality, honest work at a fair price.

But it just demonstrates, that anything the turd says should be assumed a lie, as he has such a proven record of being a liar.

Really, a member who throws about such unfounded lies and baseless accusations against his betters needs to be banned. There is no place here for such a lowlife piece of shit.

hkshooter
August 13, 2017, 18:27
(((snicker)))
There is no place here for such a lowlife piece of shit.

Court jester?

Nah, the guy ain't funny.

How about comic relief?:biggrin:

gunplumber
August 13, 2017, 18:42
Court jester?

Nah, the guy ain't funny.

How about comic relief?:biggrin:

It was funny for a while. Now it's just sad and pathetic.

michael_g927
August 13, 2017, 20:56
Not going to take the time to read your very lengthy post. Its obvious that you are very invested here.
Simply put. Tell us about this museum you did work for.

michael_g927
August 13, 2017, 21:01
Where is this 1099? Love to see it. Still no mention on museum location. Simple. Where is this museum?

michael_g927
August 14, 2017, 17:07
Review here. GP has accused me of lieing. Tough when i never made a single declaration. All i have ever done was inquire when he has made claims. So, one cannot lie if he only asks questions. For the record he has NEVER responded with any real answeres.
So when he declaired he did work for "the museum", i knew he could not prove it. This is why he ignored the question for so long.
Then he made the mistake of naming a name. So today Bob Schultz and i had a nice conversation.
He remembered T. Matk from "way back in the 90s". He said that on the rare chance that a customer wanted his gun refunished but did NOT want to pay for shipping (or possible reimportation block) of his weapon for a real HK finish, to Germany, HK would refer (deflect) this unwanted work to outsude vendors.
These vendors ARE NOT HK employees or warranty/repair centers. There are several, here are a few: Ralph with RDTS
Murray Urbach, Terry Dyer,* Bill Fleming with Fleming firearms,* Curtis Higgins with H&S firearms* and the list goes on.
He remembered A gun that went to A museum or collectuon but NOT THE HK museum in Orndorf Germany.
Here is Bob's contact info. But be warned, when mentioning this vendor he was less than interested in talking about it.
Bob Schultz 703 450 1900 ext1241

Now on to other claims. GP has claimed that he has built "thousands upon thousands" of guns. A claim that anyone that has ever built a gun knows is impossible for a one man shop even in the 25 years GP claims.
Here are his production figures straight from ATF reports.
First two years he did business as Graham T. Mark. 2009= 47 rifles. 2010 = 336!!
Then for some reason he had to remove his name and go to Arizona Response Systems.
2010 he built a whopping 11 rifles!. Then he is not to be seen in the report after that. That 25 years is getting smaller and smaller!
So again here are more of my lies.

*https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics

With yet more references.
What have we learned? T. Mark Graham aka Gunplumber, aka arrogant badstard, aka Arizona Response Systems is not anywhere near who he says he is. The falfiles is the only place you will see him because others in the industry know him as a complete hack and fraud.
* YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!

gunplumber
August 14, 2017, 18:48
I can cut and paste too, you lying sack of shit.

He remembered T. Matk from "way back in the 90s". He said that on the rare chance that a customer wanted his gun refunished but did NOT want to pay for shipping (or possible reimportation block) of his weapon for a real HK finish, to Germany, HK would refer (deflect) this unwanted work to outsude vendors.

Geez, my little troll bitch, you really are getting desperate. Another lie. The moderators really need to ban this pathologically lying piece of shit.

Yeah, Bob has some vague memory of me from way back in the 90s.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ars-hk-ship-label-02.jpg

These vendors ARE NOT HK employees

I guess you are too stupid to understand the difference between an independent 1099 contractor and an employee. That's why I posted the 1099 that I happen to have a scanned copy of, from a previous tax year. It is irrefutable proof that HK pays me as an independent contractor, yet you continue repeating the same lies. You really should be banned. FalFiles has no room for such a malicious, lying piece of shit.

Oh, here it is again, fucktard.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/hk/hk-1099-2003.jpg

He remembered A gun that went to A museum or collectuon but NOT THE HK museum in Orndorf Germany.

Strawman much? Yes. Yes you do. I never claimed Germany. Just another lie you made up. HK sent me a G3k and said it was for the HK museum. I refinished it and sent it back. That is all. I posted a picture of it. And you ignored that evidence and continued repeating your same malicious libel. Oh, and as to the part about you being so stupid - you can't pretend he doesn't really remember who I am (despite having shipped me two refinishing orders this month), and yet he can still remember a gun I did for him in January? But I already posted the picture, and yet you continue to repeat the same lies.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/hk/hk-g3k-10.jpg


Now on to other claims. GP has claimed that he has built "thousands upon thousands" of guns. A claim that anyone that has ever built a gun knows is impossible for a one man shop even in the 25 years GP claims. Here are his production figures straight from ATF reports.
First two years he did business as Graham T. Mark. 2009= 47 rifles. 2010 = 336!!
2010 he built a whopping 11 rifles!. Then he is not to be seen in the report after that. That 25 years is getting smaller and smaller!

I already proved your assertion false in a previous thread. Just because you are stupid and lazy, does not mean the rest of us are. I'm a rather hard worker and quite productive. Last time I counted was a couple years ago and it was around 3500. I'm around 4000 FALs by now. Building a gun on customer supplied parts kit and receiver is not "manufacturing for purpose of resale", it is gunsmith and return. It is not reported to T&TB for excise. Those reported on a 5320.1 are manufactured for resale. By the way, those 336 were AK47s and AK74s. Those I built for resale so had to report and pay excise tax. Here are some examples. Oh I miss the days of $99 Romy Gs.

https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/notes-finish-metal/notes-finish-metal-paint-2-04.jpg

https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/notes-finish-metal/notes-finish-metal-paint-2-05.jpg

https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/notes-finish-metal/notes-finish-metal-paint-2-06.jpg

Then for some reason he had to remove his name and go to Arizona Response Systems.

Yeah, dumbshit, I became an LLC instead of a sole proprietor DBA. Is there any subject on which you are not going full retard? Change of business classification = new license. I also changed in the 90s when I went from gunsmith/dealer to manufacturer. And then NFA manufacturer in 2000.

Here's just some of the FALs I've built this summer. Thanks for the opportunity to show off my awesomeness.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ars-shop-rack-170713.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ars-shop-rack-170704.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ars-shop-rack-170523.jpg
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ars-shop-rack-170408.jpg

Nuttz
August 14, 2017, 18:59
Really is fun to watch!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/4351936/tombstone-bitch-slap-2-o.gif

AGG
August 14, 2017, 19:51
:popcorn:

Tony

medicmike
August 14, 2017, 20:00
http://memeshappen.com/media/created/-Hang-on-there-i-need-to-get-more-poPcorN-meme-43757.jpg

michael_g927
August 14, 2017, 22:02
So desperate he just cant shut up. Even in the face of the links and info provided.
I guess the ATF is lieing as well.
Folks, i think the trend here is set. The truth is known. This thread will eventually disappear. Nothing will change. He is who he is.
Enough folks have read and screen shotted these debates that this will live on. The truth is known. Im sure if we look some more, we will find even more misrepresentation.
I believe everyone gets the picture. Stay safe everyone!

michael_g927
August 15, 2017, 06:57
Wonder what happened to my post about WHY we have gone thru this little exercise?
Sad when the mods delete certain posts but leave others. Or better yet, edit posts that contain juvinile and foul language.
So i will say it again. The reason we have done this is because GP has for years made false ststements about himsrlf and business. We all knew better and just laughed. But then he began to bad mouth other REAL companies with REAL accomplishments. This got old. But what got guys riled up was his belittleing of others when he did not like their point of view or experience. There are MANY that left falfiles and this forum is considered a joke because of their catering to hm.
As i said. It is obvious that this business is just a hobby and that your REAL income comes from farming and such.
I also said if we kept looking at GP we will likely see that his claims of "Special Operations" military experience are likely inreality, he saw Rambo as a kid. I would not be suprised (given his proven record of waaay over stating himsrlf and his accomplishments, that his service is mundane and lackluster, nothing to write home about.
However if it comes to that, there are actually crimes asdociated with stolen valor. THIS IS WHY THIS POST WILL BE REMOVED AGAIN.

Nuttz
August 15, 2017, 07:07
Now, this is truly getting pathetic! I have not seen A$$hurt of this magnitude since the glory days of RNS. Carry on Carl, you are doing so well! :facepalm:

hkshooter
August 15, 2017, 07:50
THIS IS WHY THIS POST WILL BE REMOVED AGAIN.

If your post is removed it'll be because 1) you are talking out your ass and 2) your personal desire to make mad passionate love to Mark is derailing the topic of the op and contributing zero to the thread.

You lie. Your B.S. is called. You've been warned. You keep going. Keep it up, slick. I'd love to see your libeling ass banned.

gunplumber
August 15, 2017, 08:11
If your post is removed it'll be because 1) you are talking out your ass and 2) your personal desire to make mad passionate love to Mark is derailing the topic of the op and contributing zero to the thread.

You lie. Your B.S. is called. You've been warned. You keep going. Keep it up, slick. I'd love to see your libeling ass banned.

Yep. There is a big difference between michael_g927 simply being a stupid, loudmouth, ass-hat; and his knowing and deliberate lying with the specific purpose of trying to harm my business and defame my reputation.

The latter is actionable, the former is not. And the FalFiles, knowingly permitting the low life piece of shit scum to use their forum to knowingly lie, defame and attempt to cause financial harm, makes them culpable as well in a civil suit.

The problem I have with bringing legal action is the damages. When some shit-eating cockroach like michael_927 posts his bullshit lies, it generates interest - traffic to my website spikes, and I get a free opportunity to show off my work and present my resume. My credibility is enhanced, and I make more money.

I get people saying "hey, I didn't know you did some contract work for HK, can I send you my such and such for refinish". Sure. I got a Santa Fe G3 in just last week, perhaps in part because of the new attention people have to my awesomeness, brought about by my cudgeling michael_927.

Trolls make me money. If business were ever slow, I'd have someone troll me, just to give me more opportunity to display my awesome.

More examples of my HK awesomeness can be found here. https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/smith/smith-hk/smith-hk-gallery.html
My AK magnificence here https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/smith/smith-ak/smith-ak-gallery.html
And my superlative FAL work here: https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/smith/smith-fal/smith-fal-gallery.html

gunplumber
August 15, 2017, 08:21
Wonder what happened to my post about WHY we have gone thru this little exercise?
Sad when the mods delete certain posts but leave others. Or better yet, edit posts that contain juvinile and foul language.
So i will say it again. The reason we have done this is because GP has for years made false ststements about himsrlf and business. We all knew better and just laughed. But then he began to bad mouth other REAL companies with REAL accomplishments. This got old. But what got guys riled up was his belittleing of others when he did not like their point of view or experience. There are MANY that left falfiles and this forum is considered a joke because of their catering to hm.
As i said. It is obvious that this business is just a hobby and that your REAL income comes from farming and such.
I also said if we kept looking at GP we will likely see that his claims of "Special Operations" military experience are likely inreality, he saw Rambo as a kid. I would not be suprised (given his proven record of waaay over stating himsrlf and his accomplishments, that his service is mundane and lackluster, nothing to write home about.
However if it comes to that, there are actually crimes asdociated with stolen valor. THIS IS WHY THIS POST WILL BE REMOVED AGAIN.

Wow. Now accusing me of stolen valor? I mean, aside from him being too stupid to know what it really means, I think this has finally gone over the line. Even the most biased moderator must finally ban this piece of shit.

Military service is just something I did, it is not who I am. It does not define me. I don't wear "I'm a vet so you must worship me" t-shirts. But my service with A/3/75 INF RGR ABN and C/3/12 SFG(A) do count as special operations, what with them being subordinate at the time to 1st SOCOM.

I also served briefly in the 197th and as NBC NCO for 40th Armor, 1st MI, and 348 Trans. Not glorious, but service none-the-less.

Time for michael_927 to be banned.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/army/ranger-misc-65.jpg

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/army/c312sfga-02.jpg

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/army/israel-1990-358.jpg

michael_g927
August 15, 2017, 08:41
So far EVERYTHING i have said has been backed up. Right down to selling prices of these guns.
As for GP the mods have politely asked that i leave their gold level donator alone. I shall comply with their wishes.
Good luck guys.

21HK
August 15, 2017, 09:31
So far EVERYTHING i have said has been at the expense of the OP

Fixed it for you....can you please take your bullshit post to your own thread.

Nuttz
August 15, 2017, 09:34
...As for GP the mods have politely asked that i leave their gold level donator alone. I shall comply with their wishes...
Seriously doubt this since watching the GP issued B!tch-slapping you keep receiving is so very entertaining for one and all!

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/tumblr_lvnv62xwlg1qmnwwpo1_r1_400.gif?w=650
Fixed it for you....can you please take your bullshit post to your own thread.
No one showing him any love in his own "GP has caused me so much A$$pain" thread! It is why he keeps on trollin'

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417255

michael_g927
August 15, 2017, 10:48
Actually Nuttz, i opened the thread you mentioned at the request of the OP of this thread to take this discussion else where.
GP would not comply with the OPs wishes and meet for discussion elsewhere. So i would take a moment to understand the facts before i made agressive comments like the one you posted above.
To be clear. I posted in this thread with accurate and well documented info. Because the info did not coincide with statements made by some of the "Betters" on this forum, they began to sling crap and foul language.
You will also notice that i responded with well documented facts. I have no reason to insult any member here nor do i have any reputation or declarations of self grandure to protect.i just know b.s. when i see it.
Now when you call out someone about their ego, they usually react quite visceral. Especially when the ego is built upon falasies. So instead of debating the questions at hand (a losing proposition), they immediately turn the agression on the person that had the audacity to call them on it.
When dealing with these types you will notice they are always "plank holders" members with high post counts.
Again. I requested to NOT have these discussions "At the expense of the OP" ( nice edited quote bubble by the way). The thread stands without a single post by GP. And if you look back in the originol thread you will see where he says he WILL NOT respect the OPs request to move the discussion
But some how I am the bad guy. AMAZING!!.

Nuttz
August 15, 2017, 11:01
Actually Nuttz, i opened the thread you mentioned at the request of the OP of this thread to take this discussion else where...
Yet, you keep coming back here to display the...

https://media.tenor.com/images/82a49a0eaf48d092e41f712948dd8a53/tenor.gif
...But some how I am the bad guy...
No, just a little b!tch! :]

gunplumber
August 15, 2017, 11:31
mods have politely asked that i leave their gold level donator alone

Another f-cking lie. Moderators don't give a rats ass what one's contributor status is. And a "request" that this low-life, lying sack of shit to tone back his malicious and well documented libel, is wholly insufficient.

michael_927 must be banned! If anyone other than me had been the target of this trolls continuous campaign of such gratuitous filthy lies, he'd have been banned long ago. Time for the moderators to do their f-cking job and rid us of this lying, piece of shit, troll.

gunplumber
August 16, 2017, 08:06
Another day and the moderators still have not done their obvious duty, and banned this lying piece of shit, michael_927?

I guess it just goes to show that some animals are more equal than others.

michael_927 must be banned!

gunplumber
August 17, 2017, 07:00
bump. Still waiting. I think it's fair that if the mods are not going to ban this worthless piece of shit for his proven malicious libel, they should at least justify their incredible bias to the membership.

At least be honest and admit, if it were anyone else, that lying cockroach would have been gone months ago.

If his "stolen valor" bullshit doesn't leap way over the line, I guess it's clear indication that there is no manner of false witness that will get a member kicked out - as long as I'm the target.

I do remember my brief timeout was for telling the truth about some Doritos-munching lard-ass. Yet this piece of shit is free to lie with reckless abandon, repeatedly libeling me and my good name. Now with the tacit approval of so-called "moderators".

michael_927 must be banned!

BM59
August 17, 2017, 15:13
The market is very fluid on these. Because they are so rare they usually approach HK91 prices given the same condition. But most feel why buy an SA when I can get an HK for the same price. My opinion goes as such:

Early G3 stamped, "made in greece" or not, $2200
SAR3, $2000
SAR3/8 over stamp, $1800
SAR8 w/intact barrel and pinned muzzle junk, $1600
SAR8 w/cut barrel and fake hider, $1300


I got an excellent EBO Made in Greece SAR-8, intact threaded barrel, earlier this year for $1200, which seemed a good deal. Does not look like an overstamp, seller was second owner and could not tell me if barrel had been replaced. Will post pics when I am back home in a couple of weeks.

Herr Walther
August 17, 2017, 16:49
He sort of seems like when Brazil got their asses handed to them by Germany a few years ago.

Kannst du das jetzt nicht gehen lassen?

There's no translation for 'Fucktard' in German.

hkshooter
August 17, 2017, 20:45
I got an excellent EBO Made in Greece SAR-8, intact threaded barrel, earlier this year for $1200, which seemed a good deal. Does not look like an overstamp, seller was second owner and could not tell me if barrel had been replaced. Will post pics when I am back home in a couple of weeks.

Good deal.
If it's not an over stamp someone has removed the permanent muzzle thingy.

michael_g927
August 18, 2017, 23:15
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/682194929

Not a single bid. Such a pitty.

hkshooter
August 19, 2017, 06:49
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418181

Amazing, huh.

michael_g927
August 19, 2017, 09:07
That gun broker auction was relisted for another 24 hours. Doubt there will be any bids. Rifle would however sell somewhere under $1000.

michael_g927
August 19, 2017, 09:14
You should be amazed when YOU said an overstamp would bring $1800. I however do agree that when selling specialized items, they will sell fastest and for the most $ when offered up at a place whos patronage is made up soley of folks into said item.

gunplumber
August 19, 2017, 10:25
Why is this lowlife, lying sack of shit michael_g927 still here? Why have the moderators not banned him for his constant malicious libel? Their silence makes them complicit.

hansellhd
August 19, 2017, 10:34
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/682194929

Not a single bid. Such a pitty.

Straight SAR8 Post ban with cut barrel, not surprising.

FriendBesto
August 19, 2017, 18:31
Straight SAR8 Post ban with cut barrel, not surprising.

And what looks to be a welded on flash suppressor to make 16".

hansellhd
August 19, 2017, 21:53
And what looks to be a welded on flash suppressor to make 16".

Yeah looks like crap, I would rather own a PTR than something like that.

BM59
August 20, 2017, 03:00
Good deal.
If it's not an over stamp someone has removed the permanent muzzle thingy.


Here are some pictures. Does not look like an over stamp, but barrel does not seem bubbaed either. Did any SAR-8 come with factory threaded barrel?

https://vgy.me/enOQ2B.jpg

https://vgy.me/qpg9rf.jpg

https://vgy.me/K7VJ88.jpg


https://vgy.me/t0j2q7.jpg

hkshooter
August 20, 2017, 08:19
Is there any evidence of a pin hole or silver solder remains on the muzzle? Under the muzzle thingy of some of the early post ban imports the barrel was left intact and the thingy was pinned or soldered. My experience is that intact barrels were pinned while cut barrels or barrels with muzzle thread removed are soldered. Some folks have simply gorilla'd the fake brakes with a pipe wrench to shear the pin and have a nearly perfect and unmolested factory muzzle underneath.

My current SAR8 was a later ban import. The threads have been removed but the barrel is still full length. A fake hider has been pinned over the area with the muzzle of the barrel flush with the fake hider. So the barrel looks shorter but side by side with my unaltered second rifle with the hider removed the barrels are the same length. I'm going to have the muzzle of the SAR8 restored by IGF because the rifle is like new and I've already installed a mag paddle.

Somewhere along way as the ban evolved SA changed the methods they used in an attempt to stay compliant. Nobody knows exactly what the serial breaks are for a specific method and there is certainly some over lap and anomalies. What's important to you is that your rifle is basically left looking unaltered and as original as possible. One interesting thing about your rifle is the 7.62MM marking. Those are rather rare and I believe an indicator of a very, very early ban era import, back when the ban was passed but the captured rifles got a pass because they weren't named specifically yet.
Congrats on your luck and find!

michael_g927
August 20, 2017, 09:46
So HK shooter says that your rifle may be an early ban rifle that slipped by. Seems to be the SAR 3 rifles heldvup by ATF would be the rifles he speaks of. And he would be correct if the rifle discussed were 3 OVERSTAMP 8. But the rifle in the pics is an 8. Straight up eight.
So the only SAR8 that would be later than this one would be the aluminum reciever one. And surely an expert would not confuse the two.
The rifle i mentioned on GB will close a third time for the exact reason cited by the posters above. Why not buy a new rifle with warrsnty and factory support?
The mods have not banned me because i dont insult members and use foul mouth language on their forum. As for libel, its not libel if its true. Especially when backed up by atf links and such. Something to consider. Its not proof if the link posted is one from your own website. Now the mods have asked me nicely to overlook you. And i agreed.

hkshooter
August 20, 2017, 11:09
So HK shooter says that your rifle may be an early ban rifle that slipped by. Seems to be the SAR 3 rifles heldvup by ATF would be the rifles he speaks of. And he would be correct if the rifle discussed were 3 OVERSTAMP 8. But the rifle in the pics is an 8. Straight up eight.
So the only SAR8 that would be later than this one would be the aluminum reciever one. And surely an expert would not confuse the two.


Incorrect.
The SAR3 rifles that got caught are "preban config" rifles that were over stamped 8. No secret.
An early work-a-round to the ban was the SAR3 rifles were renamed SAR8 at the manufacturer. The new name coupled with furniture changes skirted the ban for a short while. Some rifles were allowed in because they didn't meet the old banned criteria by name.
So, new name (SAR8), new features (thumbhole, forearm with neutered bipod slot, for some reason bipods are evil) and rifles were allowed to pass, even when the original stocks were included with in the box. I believe this is the time frame the rifle above came in.
A few months later the ban language was modified once again and the rifles were neutered farther while retaining the SAR8 moniker.

While this was going on the rifles stuck in customs were modified to meet the newer language. So while they were imported earlier than originally SAR8 struck rifles, they weren't released to the distributors until much later.

The 3/8 over stamps are older than the SAR8 stamped rifles but early originally stamped SAR8 rifles that met the current ban language (until it was modified again in a few weeks) were imported and sold before 1) the caught 3/8 rifles were available and 2) the new language mandated that the muzzles be completely neutered.

The aluminum brick receiver SAR8 you mentioned were somewhere around the forth version of the SAR8 marked rifles, far from the over stamps, not even close to same time frame. These are the rifles that most consider "working kits" rather than desirable rifles. Most will not bring $900 NIB because that's $200 more than the same parts as a kit.

BM59
August 20, 2017, 11:34
Is there any evidence of a pin hole or silver solder remains on the muzzle? Under the muzzle thingy of some of the early post ban imports the barrel was left intact and the thingy was pinned or soldered. My experience is that intact barrels were pinned while cut barrels or barrels with muzzle thread removed are soldered. Some folks have simply gorilla'd the fake brakes with a pipe wrench to shear the pin and have a nearly perfect and unmolested factory muzzle underneath.

My current SAR8 was a later ban import. The threads have been removed but the barrel is still full length. A fake hider has been pinned over the area with the muzzle of the barrel flush with the fake hider. So the barrel looks shorter but side by side with my unaltered second rifle with the hider removed the barrels are the same length. I'm going to have the muzzle of the SAR8 restored by IGF because the rifle is like new and I've already installed a mag paddle.

Somewhere along way as the ban evolved SA changed the methods they used in an attempt to stay compliant. Nobody knows exactly what the serial breaks are for a specific method and there is certainly some over lap and anomalies. What's important to you is that your rifle is basically left looking unaltered and as original as possible. One interesting thing about your rifle is the 7.62MM marking. Those are rather rare and I believe an indicator of a very, very early ban era import, back when the ban was passed but the captured rifles got a pass because they weren't named specifically yet.
Congrats on your luck and find!

Thank you!

Can't say about pin hole now, I had to get a brake pinned on her for state compliance. That said your explanation of an early converted SAR-3 is plausible , beside a barrel replacement.

I have 3 PTR's which I am very happy of, however this one brings something different and unique to the collection (waiting to move somewhere one day where HK91 is not on a banned list).

Grinder
August 20, 2017, 16:21
I got an excellent EBO Made in Greece SAR-8, intact threaded barrel, earlier this year for $1200, which seemed a good deal. Does not look like an overstamp, seller was second owner and could not tell me if barrel had been replaced. Will post pics when I am back home in a couple of weeks.
As a general rule:
The SAR 3/8 overstamps were up until around 9000 serial. The early SAR8 marked rifles where threaded in the 9000 serial range. SAR8 over 10000 were not threaded.

BM59
August 20, 2017, 17:45
As a general rule:
The SAR 3/8 overstamps were up until around 9000 serial. The early SAR8 marked rifles where threaded in the 9000 serial range. SAR8 over 10000 were not threaded.

Indeed, she's a ser # 904X.

AGG
August 20, 2017, 17:48
As a general rule:
The SAR 3/8 overstamps were up until around 9000 serial. The early SAR8 marked rifles where threaded in the 9000 serial range. SAR8 over 10000 were not threaded.

Correct--- the highest SAR3/8 that I am aware of is 08984--- the lowest SAR8 is 08996--- the barrel configurations sound accurate!!! ;)

Tony

michael_g927
August 20, 2017, 22:26
So HK shooter is saying the rifles cought were allowed to pass, then the next rifles wete marked SAR8 . THEN somewhere AFTER the SAR 8 they decided for some reason to over stamp the 8 with a three?
As the posters above have already pointed out. The SAR 3 rifles in customs did NOT get a free pass. They were reconfigured and the 3 was over stamped with the next easiest number which is 8. Hence the 3/8. These rifles are identified by the overstamp. After the group were released all rifles after were simply SAR8.
The simple play with the 8 over the three was the easiest and quickest fix. Another interesting side note is... SAI originaly imported the first 500 that were stamped "G3". If one rifle were to carry a hefty value would be this rifle in new condition like MAC had. But sadly it only brought right at $1500 (new in the box!). Keep in mind this would have been the most valuable one today (before he cut the tag and blasted away).
SAI did this quick play on numbers again. They started with the SAR48 which easily became the SAR4800.
Now when the 48 became the 4800, there were no rifles in customs at that time so the SAR48 never had an overstamp variant.

hansellhd
August 21, 2017, 12:38
Here are some pictures. Does not look like an over stamp, but barrel does not seem bubbaed either. Did any SAR-8 come with factory threaded barrel?

https://vgy.me/enOQ2B.jpg

https://vgy.me/qpg9rf.jpg

https://vgy.me/K7VJ88.jpg


https://vgy.me/t0j2q7.jpg



Nice rifle, did you add the wood stock?

The SAR3/8 I purchased last year came with the Green stock (like yours) and it also came with the G3 wood stock. I added the wood pistol grip.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3849_zpshiyvoqy2.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3849_zpshiyvoqy2.jpg.html)

The fit/finish on these Greek Rifles is jut as nice as any HK91 I've owned.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3838_zps3krlx5dg.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3838_zps3krlx5dg.jpg.html)

This is how the Rifle came as purchased. $1500.00 OTD. Also has a Heavy buffer installed in the stock.

BM59
August 21, 2017, 16:34
Nice! mine came with black furniture and wide HG. The wood furniture is one of two sets I brought back from my last trip to Deutschland last Spring ($40 each ;) )

hkshooter
August 21, 2017, 18:55
Those are both great looking rifles, guys. And excellent pics, too.