PDA

View Full Version : Homebrew SOTA/Fostech ECHO AR first range/ function


archers6
July 26, 2017, 00:54
So for anyone interested in SOTA upper &lower/Fostech Echo.. My buddy Mark built my rifle and we got it to the range for a function check and to make friends with the Echo trigger. Mark reported the trigger went in without even reading the directions and freaked out afterward when he watched a video on it...
until he realized he did it right the first time.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk165/archers6/20170720_153817.jpg

I got the forged upper and lower SOTA set several months back from P/A, the rest of her is a 17.7" 5.56 melonite barrel with gas block and tube (Spinta?) Fostech Echo trigger,Stngr Rail, Sharps Relia-Bolt, and Strike Industries Jcomp, PSA parts, with Magpul furniture.

We ran 75 grain silver coated (Tula?) steel HP exclusively indoor at short range (we had youth shooters with us) and had lots of failures the first 120 rounds or so -felt like the (buffer was binding slightly) but she broke-in after that and we sucessfully ran approximately 240 flawless rounds (in duplex mode) with a 42 round poly promag, a 30 round poly Tangodown, and a 30 round steel mag with no issues.

I did not get to specifically run Magpul mags but had none of the issues with polymer mags I heard of with the SOTA lower. There is a small amount of play between upper and lower, a bit more than most of my AR pistols.

The Echo trigger is excellent delivering a sexy 4 pound -ish pull with short, slick feel. Reset spring pressure is gentle with no grit, snap, or click- same as the pull! A genuine suprise to me at bang through the full cycle in duplex. It is crazy cool. I think the barrel length and weight/Jcomp combo is keeping muzzle rise down very well and I am very pleased so far! I will try to attach a hurried picture I got of her.
http://s280.photobucket.com/user/archers6/media/20170720_153817.jpg.html?filters[user]=68479537&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

Bubacus
July 26, 2017, 06:24
Good to hear the first hand report on the Echo trigger. Interesting concept.

TenTea
July 26, 2017, 06:32
For those wondering (like me)...

https://fostechoutdoors.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=15

https://www.mdshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177138&stc=1&d=1462477091

Falfan2017
July 26, 2017, 08:20
Echo trigger works great you can easily keep your second shot on target and the trigger has a built in fail safe to make sure you don't overrun the action on your rifle and create a failure to chamber. In semi the trigger is very nice too. Only thing is these are super expensive 500$. Much cheaper than a registered m16 though.

Thorack
July 26, 2017, 10:02
Yeah,

I want to get one of these for my braced 9mm AR Pistol. Basically gonna be a legal subgun that takes glock mags.

Thorack

LYCAN
July 26, 2017, 10:45
$386 for this one, Franklin Armory, Gen 3

https://vizardsgunsandammo.com/franklin-armory-5550-binary-firing-system-bfs-trigger-gen-3-metal-black/?utm_source=Vizards+Guns+And+Ammo+news+letter&utm_campaign=987c8afedc-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_06_20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6872f3eb95-987c8afedc-&mc_cid=987c8afedc&mc_eid=%5BUNIQID%5D

archers6
July 26, 2017, 23:14
Yeah,

I want to get one of these for my braced 9mm AR Pistol. Basically gonna be a legal subgun that takes glock mags.

Thorack
Good Plan!

Bertellione
July 27, 2017, 03:56
$386 for this one, Franklin Armory, Gen 3

https://vizardsgunsandammo.com/franklin-armory-5550-binary-firing-system-bfs-trigger-gen-3-metal-black/?utm_source=Vizards+Guns+And+Ammo+news+letter&utm_campaign=987c8afedc-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_06_20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6872f3eb95-987c8afedc-&mc_cid=987c8afedc&mc_eid=%5BUNIQID%5D

I agree the Franklin gen3 is awsome the gen2 had flaws but the gen3 fixed them all. I would like to try the echoe but not going to buy their first ones to find out that it's not better than the Franklin and at a higher price.

hueyville
July 27, 2017, 06:31
Have the Echo, Tac Con, Gen 2 and Gen 3 Franklin. The Gen 3 Franklin is my favorite right now. Just installed second and apart from a little work getting selector to wear in a little so moves from binary back to single fire it's a 100% no issue binary out of the box with supplied buffer spring. HAve my Gen 2 running perfect as well.

Bertellione
July 28, 2017, 03:45
The gen two is ok but I didn't like how if you loaded the mag with an odd number of rounds and fired it in binary it didn't reset for the next mag. The gen three fixed that. I don't care for the Tac con due the the fact the triggers sent to get reviewed had lighter springs than the ones they sold. I will have to see how well the Fostech works over time, but as far as I'm aware the Franklin gen three does everything the Fostech does but cheaper.

John A
July 28, 2017, 06:58
I bought a gen 3 Franklin from another forum. It was used, but maybe only a couple of times. There wasn't even any wear on the parts yet.

Got it for $275 shipped, and he included 2 different weight springs and 2 buffers in case I had to tune anything (which I didn't) and a set of KNS pins.

I thought I did pretty good.

I installed it, tried it, and it was alright but the novelty wore off after a while. A guy at the range offered $350 for it on the spot, so it went home with him.

I'm fairly certain that I could make a factory trigger set do mostly the same thing just by changing how much of the disconnector grabbed the hammer and maybe adding a set screw to the trigger leg and changing the angle a little if I were inclined.

Which I'm not, so...

hueyville
July 28, 2017, 07:29
I like them but not for blind mag dumping though the occasional brass spewing mag dump is enjoyable albeit expensive if do much. I like the idea of getting a nice perfect double tap in a defensive situation. If zombies were in the house would set my SBR into binary mode then one tap on the trigger and move to next zombie. Two center mass hits all easy peasy. There is a company about to go public with a $249 retail version. Not really any more expensive than most custom triggers. If theirs is of any quality it may drive the market price down. I like them mainly just because they get people all twisted up when tell them your rifle is not a full auto, just quick trigger reset. As it stands if buying any more binaries in near future the Franklin Gen 3 is top of the heap.

On the Tac Con, original early shipment triggers had light springs because myself and a few friends were on the wait list bus and got first batch shipped. I bought two and even wife can make them run like a raped ape in her 5.728. Bought a third much later and it's totally different and disliked so much sold it after a couple trips to the range. I do worry about wear in the Tac Con's especially what will it do if one of the four bottom corner springs were to get messed up. It's sealed design is also a concern, if something stops working, how do you repair it in the field? Of course the other binaries have a lot of small, odd parts which has to be considered.

Bertellione
July 28, 2017, 12:52
That's the biggest downfall to all those types of triggers, their not cheap to buy or feed. You can get decent deals on them used because people buy them then realize what it costed and costs to feed. The other part is people buy them then realize if they don't have land they can't use it in binary or echo because alot of gun clubs have rules on how fast you can shoot.

Bertellione
July 28, 2017, 13:00
I bought a gen 3 Franklin from another forum. It was used, but maybe only a couple of times. There wasn't even any wear on the parts yet.

Got it for $275 shipped, and he included 2 different weight springs and 2 buffers in case I had to tune anything (which I didn't) and a set of KNS pins.

I thought I did pretty good.

I installed it, tried it, and it was alright but the novelty wore off after a while. A guy at the range offered $350 for it on the spot, so it went home with him.

I'm fairly certain that I could make a factory trigger set do mostly the same thing just by changing how much of the disconnector grabbed the hammer and maybe adding a set screw to the trigger leg and changing the angle a little if I were inclined.

Which I'm not, so...

It can be made but unless you have a letter it could mean big trouble that would be the biggest worry. Going with one of the companies you get a letter and it has had testing. There are guys making them but I've read they can have a sweet spot where it could double or go full. That would be my biggest worry about making one.

fnogger
July 28, 2017, 17:38
That's the biggest downfall to all those types of triggers, their not cheap to buy or feed. You can get decent deals on them used because people buy them then realize what it costed and costs to feed. The other part is people buy them then realize if they don't have land they can't use it in binary or echo because alot of gun clubs have rules on how fast you can shoot.

I remember in the early 90s a fire on pull/fire on release doohicky was available for the mini-14. Basically a steel staple that let the secondary sear catch the hammer when trigger was back, releasing trigger let the second go. Was $25... think it would work with any garand style trigger setup BUT do not know how the BATFE feels about them.

Bertellione
July 28, 2017, 23:50
From what I've read that was the first one the BATF gave a letter for, for the mini 14 from what I read it was the hammer and the guy only sold them at gun shows. The staple is a conversion that you can make, I'm not sure what they think about the staple method though. I've never had either just from what I've read after we got our first binary trigger.
I think I had read at one time either Fostech or Franklin are planing on trying to do the trigger for other rifle types also.

hueyville
July 29, 2017, 18:19
I have done all my AR 10's in 338, 6XC and 7mm-08 is next up but highly considering building a heavy profile fluted 16" barrel in 7.6251, installing a binary, buying a few Beta Mags and having a zero paperwork MBR. Laying prone with rifle on bipod and in binary with a handful of 50 round Beta's could lay down a wall of lead only the bravest of zombies would want to charge. Have been waiting on binary triggers for the AK, imagine how many would sell if someone worked all the bugs out of it? With all the 39 ammo have here on the Ponderosa would slap binaries in at least two AK's. Why wife has a pair of 5.728's with bump triggers. If tell her to lay down a wall of lead in direction "x" while I maneuver zombie(s) will have 100 rounds of rapid fire lead to keep them occupied while I moved to a better field of fire without them watching too closely.

Crap, pile up the two 28's, pair of 5.56 Slidefires and a pair of binary SBR's and wife could spray 300 rounds at easily half the rate of fire of a full auto M4 without a single magazine swap. That would give a man a huge amount of time to move while zombies are trying to dig a freaking tunnel because the whole world has turned into a wall of bullets flying all around. Area fire can be an effective tool and a bump or binary trigger makes it easy for wife. She is dang accurate with her 5.728's in bump mode now. Cost me some beans to get her there but she has the 50 round mag dump in a very concentrated area down pat. We may be getting old and going cripple but don't intend to go quietly into the night. If rat-a-tat-tat had no use then dot mil would not put three position selectors on most of their fighting rifles. With a big suppressor and bipod think wife could make a binary AR 10 a bad place to be on wrong end of. God blessed me with a wife that believes firmly in kill before being killed and doesn't mind putting in her practice.

LYCAN
July 29, 2017, 22:25
That's the biggest downfall to all those types of triggers, their not cheap to buy or feed. You can get decent deals on them used because people buy them then realize what it costed and costs to feed. .

Except, that with the Echo or Franklin, one is free to leave it set on semi, and not worry about excessive ammo expenditure

Bertellione
July 29, 2017, 23:49
Ya you can leave them on that single mode, and after awhile people start to wonder why they bought it because they can't shoot it by range rules or lack of funds to play with in the mode that they bought it for. To me the single mode is fine but worth the money for the second, but all my ARs are 1000$ builds without optics so the trigger in that price range ain't bad. Some one with a PSA special deal, the trigger cost close to or more than the gun and still need irons or optics.

hueyville
July 30, 2017, 12:23
I use them on appropriate rifles that have highest likelihood of being pressed into defensive work. SBR's and pure fighting spec rifles. A 24" varmint profile build or other highly specialized rifle with high power glass doesn't need a binary or bump trigger. One out of about five builds gets such triggers of late. Short barrel with 1x red dot and its likely to get a binary long heavy barrel gets a nice crisp light pull fire control system.

fnogger
July 30, 2017, 19:38
I use them on appropriate rifles that have highest likelihood of being pressed into defensive work. SBR's and pure fighting spec rifles. A 24" varmint profile build or other highly specialized rifle with high power glass doesn't need a binary or bump trigger. One out of about five builds gets such triggers of late. Short barrel with 1x red dot and its likely to get a binary long heavy barrel gets a nice crisp light pull fire control system.

Good enough varmint/target trigger and a large cup of good coffee and you don't need a binary trigger device :)

archers6
July 30, 2017, 22:28
I use them on appropriate rifles that have highest likelihood of being pressed into defensive work. SBR's and pure fighting spec rifles. A 24" varmint profile build or other highly specialized rifle with high power glass doesn't need a binary or bump trigger. One out of about five builds gets such triggers of late. Short barrel with 1x red dot and its likely to get a binary long heavy barrel gets a nice crisp light pull fire control system.

I agree, the nice thing about the AR is it easily "morphs" with a few other pets in the stable. I think there is a place for a carbine capable of ringing 90% plus of the 5.56 velocity for barrier / general penetration and glass good enough for good target identification. The role you describe is ideal for an 8" 9mm pistol or 10.5" 7.62x39 or. 8" plus .300 Blackout especially.( I have not gone for that one because I have not gotten into reloading) Do you have a favorite 1x? I settled on the P/A 2MOA red dot or Holosun for budget reasons on my shorties.