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AZ Deuce
July 04, 2017, 17:06
For the last month and a half possibly longer, I've only heard the chirping of crickets as far as BM59s have been concerned. I have a theory, but was wondering why it's so quiet on the Italian Front?

I ordered a JRA BM59 receiver like a lot of others did, and after a 8+ month wait, canceled the order, and went another route. It wasn't long after that, all of a sudden JRA starts selling completely built BM59s on their investment cast receiver. I thought it was strange and rude on their part, for not selling us builders the receivers we had ordered, and instead kept them for their own builds. At least that's how I saw it.

Now I could be wrong about this, but that's how I see it. So I was wondering except for the first 200 or so receivers did anyone who waited 8 months or longer ever get their receivers?

I read the second review in Firearms News where 2 different JRA complete BM59s built on their investment cast receivers had issues, the second one they received had an out of spec JRA receiver. After that report everything regarding BM59 receivers and or builds got really quiet, even over at Shuff's Forums.

So I'm just trying to figure out why all the enthusiasm in all things BM59 just went quiet?

I bought a re-welded National Ordnance "Americanized" BM59, had my machinist/gunsmith friend strip it, machine it to take the Beretta front mag catch assembly with the hollow 8mm tube/pin, install and headspace a SARCO BM59 barrel, and am just waiting on him to refinish it so I can do the final assembly.

I know some of you shuddered at the thought of a welded receiver, but I fired the rifle several times before tearing it apart and the receiver worked great, these things were built in the late 60s and early 70s and if they were going to come apart, I figure they'd have done it by now.

Will it be collectable? NO! None of the JRA's will either, they're just shooters, if you want a collectable BM59 you either buy a Beretta BM62 or 69, or a Springfield/Beretta BM59 from back in the 80s. Will the new builds be fun to shoot? Well YEAH!

I do expect current build BM59s that were built on original Garand receivers and had the heel remarked in the style of the actual Italian builds will be worth more money than the rest of the current builds. I'm betting anything built by Shuff will be worth more than the rest, but you better keep your paper work, for I've read that he does not mark his builds.

If any of you did build a BM59, did you add one of those stripper clip guides to the receiver. I was kind of anal about having the stripper clip guide, as I know that was an option with Beretta, but every Beretta built BM Type rifle (except the BM69) imported to America had them, I was determined my build would too.

The Nat Ord receiver I used had one from back in the day, and since it ran so well, and the machining was so good you could only tell it was a re-weld from looking at the inside of the receiver, I decided to go that way.....as I was tired of waiting on my much promised (I called them twice was told I was only a few numbers down the list) but never delivered JRA receiver.

Anyway that's how I see the current BM59 situation, but I live a sheltered life, and don't know any of the real players, so I was wondering if somebody could set me straight?

olddominion
July 04, 2017, 17:47
Parts kits have dried up. Also building a BM59 is expensive.

Magazines are pricey and it is a heavy rifle.

I have a BM59 Ital and a BM59E both built by Shuff.

Nice weapon and it would be nice if he marked his work.

Shuff's machine work is what sets his builds off as other builders anneal receivers

or take short cuts with machining receiver. That is how you can see the

difference.

I think to change engraving may lead some to believe it is a true BM59 and

that concerns me. I did not change the original markings on my builds.

wanneroo
July 04, 2017, 21:52
BM59's seemed to be the hot thing to have for two months or so and then yes, it all went quiet.

On another forum I am on someone bought one of the JRA BM59s from Classic and had issues and last I heard was trying to get it fixed by JRA.

cowbilly
July 05, 2017, 00:01
I bought one of Classic's JRA BM59s (Mainly because I had a line on a Nigerian stock that I had always wanted). Fit and finish seem fine on it but I have not had a chance to really shoot it yet. I have a lot of experience with M14s, M1As, M1 Garands and did not see anything that would cause me to raise a red flag. I have not heard anything good or bad about the JRAs and I admit I was a little nervous about the purchase. Mine is a recent cast receiver, which is not a problem for me as long as everything is made and fitted correctly.

You're right though pretty quiet on the BM59 front. Makes me wonder but usually something bad is screamed from the mountain tops on the forums.

AliYahu
July 05, 2017, 10:18
My BM59E was assembled by me on a receiver that Shuff modified - I'd wanted one since Sarco started advertising the kits 20 years ago!
The JRA receivers were disappointing, to say the least, and seem to have been quickly discontinued - with orders outstanding!
There was supposedly over 20,000 (maybe over 30K) kits headed towards the States, with a particular manufacturer supposedly gearing up for production. We'll see!

Eli

SAFN49
July 05, 2017, 10:59
I do expect current build BM59s that were built on original Garand receivers and had the heel remarked in the style of the actual Italian builds will be worth more money than the rest of the current builds. I'm betting anything built by Shuff will be worth more than the rest, but you better keep your paper work, for I've read that he does not mark his builds.



The ATF frowns on remarking receivers. I do believe that removing the original manufacturer is illegal.

mp
July 05, 2017, 15:46
The excitement was with the overload of kits. Now they have pretty much dried up from most sources. So the excitement is over until the next cool kit hits the market.

Orlando8
July 05, 2017, 15:59
This is a build by Shuff I had done years ago before they got popular. Parts were expensive and harder to find
If I were to buy or build another it would be no one but Shuffs
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/BM59/Picture675.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/BM59/Picture675.jpg.html)

R_Lloyd
July 06, 2017, 03:59
I ordered one of there receivers quite some time ago when they were taking preorders. I haven't received mine as of yet and my FFL haven't heard much from them. He called a while ago and they said it would be a couple months. I was also frustrated when they were selling the rifles through classic and not delivering on receivers that were ordered months before. I also read the review in shotgun news, maybe we are lucky not to have spent the 400.00 on their poorly made junk. It seems like gun companies are horrible with customer service and promised delivery times.

AZ Deuce
July 06, 2017, 08:41
R_Lloyd, that's what I was wondering, did JRA screw over the receiver purchasers and keep the receivers to make more money selling complete rifles. Unfortunately it appears so. They had such a good reputation with their M14s and other military type weapons like their M1903A4 clones, I wonder why they, screwed over their potential receiver buyers to build complete rifles? I don't know how others will respond, but that leaves a bad taste in my mouth toward JRA. That was a poor choice on their part for public relations.

Like you said, maybe it was best overall this way, at least we dodged the bullet of doing a build only to find out the receiver was no good. Still you'd have thought with their reputation on their M14s that they shouldn't have had any issues with a Garand Type receiver. Well I'm sad for those who never got, or are still waiting for their receivers. For me, NOW I know I made the right decision canceling my order with JRA and going the way I went for my build.

Thanks to all who responded to this thread, I learned stuff. Last I heard, Shuff is considering installing the stripper clip guide, if this is true, then from all I've read from people who own a Shuff built rifle, he is the only way to go for a mag-fed Garand based build at this time. If I ever do another one he will be where I send mine to.

Thanks for the feedback. - AZ

AZ Deuce
July 06, 2017, 08:55
SAFN49, I just wanted to clarify when I said they remarked the heel, they just over stamped the caliber and restamped it, all other markings that the ATF would care about were left intact.

They looked like this: http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/uploads/profile/photo-490.jpg?_r=1444332678

Got this image off of Google Images.

kev
July 06, 2017, 09:35
That looks like twelve kinds of ass.

olddominion
July 06, 2017, 16:03
That looks like twelve kinds of ass.

Is that good or bad?:?

kmurphy
July 07, 2017, 19:08
I think the remarked heels look cool.

Womper
July 08, 2017, 17:49
Here is how I had mine remarked:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85713&stc=1&d=1499553980
And the whole gun. I used a Danish contract Beretta Garand receiver converted by Shuff.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85714&stc=1&d=1499554881

kmurphy
July 08, 2017, 20:46
All I know is that the folding stock looks cool, but like most folding stocks is not as cool in actual use.

AZ Deuce
July 08, 2017, 20:47
That is sweet

Shuff
July 10, 2017, 18:49
Hello folks, I just wanted to say a few words about marking my work. The only time I do mark my work is on a manufactured rifle, that's a rifle that I sell as whole to a customer, and the Mini-G conversion which gets a barrel marking.

This said, it's a touchy subject when marking.

1. I do not want to come off as vain. Marking one's work can give that impression to some. I get that reaction sometimes just on my M14 fed Garand conversion Bolt stops which I had marked with "Shuff's".
2. On manufactured rifles I am required by law to mark the barrel or receiver with "Shuff's Jerome MI" and I'll have people get upset that the font is not nice enough on the underside of the barrel where people can't even see it.

It seems that, from my prospective, I cannot win. There's a group of folks who just want their rifle marked, another group that finds it vain, and another group that expects me to spend big money on a laser engraver to mark the barrel.

Here's what I am willing to do. If you want your build marked just ask and I will, free of charge, use the USGI electro pencil engraver and mark the bottom of the barrel "Shuff's Jerome MI". It will not be pretty but it will be done.

On the stripper clip guide, I now do them and they are $150 installed. I use the post type and solder them on. I only do them when doing a build for folks. The cost would be more expensive if you already have a rifle I did and I'm adding it. I'd have to take down the entire rifle, media blast the area, drill the receiver, solder it on, re park the receiver, re assemble the rifle. You'd be looking at about $275 in that situation plus shipping.

The bottom line is that I'm willing to do just about anything for a customer, all one needs to do is ask. I do have a strong inclination that the customer is job 1 and If I can do it I will. Just be prepared to pay if it's something requiring rare demand. I am not willing to do jobs that I have not done myself to one of my own rifles. I just think it prudent to know things will work and to be able to stand by it with experience I've gotten doing it for myself.

The BM59 craze is not over. I have a shop stacked to the brim to prove it. The talk may have died down but the jobs are still fast and furious.

AZ Deuce
July 10, 2017, 22:25
Thanks for replying and letting us know how it feels from your perspective. I'm glad to hear you're up to your ears in work, that says a lot right there.....you are the GO TO GUY on mag-fed Garand conversions. Thanks for putting up with all of us. - AZ

Shuff
July 11, 2017, 06:03
Thanks for replying and letting us know how it feels from your perspective. I'm glad to hear you're up to your ears in work, that says a lot right there.....you are the GO TO GUY on mag-fed Garand conversions. Thanks for putting up with all of us. - AZ Really it is my sincere honor to do this work. Up until 12 years ago, and straight from college, I had worked for a fortune 50 company my entire life. Owning and operating Shuff's Parkerizing has been the most rewarding thing I've ever done and I'm only sorry it took so long to get this party started.

Thank you to all my customers for making my dream come true.:bow: