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hueyville
June 28, 2017, 08:51
Something I cannot find anywhere on web is a list of proofmark stamps for trigger manufactuers. Right now have same trigger from Midway, Brownells and PSA that have two matching proof market then a third that I believe is used by manufacturer to identify which contract it was assigned. Colt has used a lot of "S" stamp L.W. Schneiders in past , especially hammers mixed with "C" stamp triggers in apparent mixed maker fire control systems. Have never really thought about this till recently as started doing ton of trigger work. Would be real nice if we could post pictures with proof stamps and whoever marketed each and build a list of who actual manufacturers of FCS are. Would allow us bargain hunters to see by proof marks if a $20 trigger group is fine china or ALG made. Going to start a personal list and as get it moving will post pics of proofs and where they came from. Especially the ones where have one or two indicating maker and second or third to indicate reseller.

L.W. Schneider sells triggers in minimum 500 count lots. Not too many people buying that many unless reselling as parts or putting in rifles. Has to be quite a few big companies selling FCS parts to multiple vendors and making some sense of it will help in deciding if a trigger is worth putting labor into. Some of the Phillipines made AR's MIM trigger groups seem pretty soft when start stoning them.

Mebsuta
June 29, 2017, 02:02
I have also read S stamp is Schmid tool. You probably read that too. I don't know which it is.

lysanderxiii
June 29, 2017, 04:23
Are you talking about the caster's marking?

http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg538/lysanderx/Untitled_zpsbvaxjudr.png

hueyville
June 29, 2017, 07:24
Take a look at a few just snatched off net, have to dig through disorganized files and start taking more pictures of known groups. Need both sides as often will have one odd mark on opposite side. Notice the two "S" stamps in exact same place on WMB, AR Stoner and both ALG's hammer. Have handleD lots of triggers since started doing trigger jobs for LGS and quite often see very similar marks across a wide variety of makers except for one extra that designates final marketing company... Think a lot of $29 and $89 triggers are same except for springs and fitting. Once I run them across a hammer and sear jig and put my preference spring kit in, all of the "S", "S", "x" marked hammer trigger groups come out within a tenth pound pull of each other. Same in premium triggers. There are some $120 triggers that are virtually same as $220 triggers and on up in price. Wish had the f u nds to start splitting open sealed triggers as many seam very similar.

Weapons Of Mass Destruction

http://i67.tinypic.com/2yugbnm.jpg

AR Stoner

http://i64.tinypic.com/f19laf.jpg

ALG ACT

http://i63.tinypic.com/33tqznl.jpg

ALG milspec

http://i63.tinypic.com/n3uam1.jpg

Bushmaster

http://i65.tinypic.com/vo1kd0.jpg

hueyville
June 29, 2017, 08:12
Proofs are hard to see in next three but in better pics or in hand are the same. Big price difference between the bottom rung AR Stoner and the

AR Stoner $35 street with safety.

http://i68.tinypic.com/zir5lk.jpg

APF Armory $70 street price, no safety but plated.

http://i64.tinypic.com/rka548.jpg

DPMS $40 street price with safety.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2h5jxfl.jpg

They are all the same except plating on the APF. Am seeing a lot of trends in triggers and other parts where find a "premium" line then "economy" line where have matching proofs, design and measurements. Recently caught the AR Stoner non plated triggers on sale for $25 and often catch the plated for $30. What I found odd was the more inexpensive trigger was closer to square and took less work to tune. With a little experimenting have three of the Stoners in this post sub three pound pull and 100% reliable even with known hard primers. Had to mix springs from JP and Wolff but have them breaking like glass rods with zero creep and not enough travel to worry about at 2.8 pounds. Takes under $10 in springs, which the included safety makes that cost a wash so I figure am getting what many will pay over $200 for (sub 3 lb single stage crisp trigger) for $30.

Will do my best to keep posting obvious duplicates at wide price points but if the rest of the Peanut Gallery will shoot crisp pictures each side of any trigger group before installing eventually we may find several winning combinations of inexpensive triggers that are exact duplicates of the high dollar units. Have not purchased a Geissele in a year. Can take a RRA $99 trigger, polish, swap springs and have as good or better two stage as costs double the money. Of course this means investing in a good hammer and sear jig to do it right but two trigger jobs pay for the tools. As I work out each 100% trigger and spring combination going to build an A, B, C/1, 2, 3 page on my new AR website so a person can order a $25 to $120 trigger and finish with a $90 to $250 street price equivalent. I can't keep from ping $200 triggers in a rifle build per month. What am saving in triggers now pays for a couple or three extra builds per year without sacrificing decent trigger pull.

hueyville
July 06, 2017, 15:57
AR15 TRIGGER KIT 8 PIECE COLT COMPETITION

http://i67.tinypic.com/ff6108.jpg

AR15 MATCH TRIGGER KIT 8 PIECE COLT COMPETITION NICKLE BORON

http://i64.tinypic.com/2hd422q.jpg

More proofs that tend to make me feel the actual playing field for manufacturing the basic AR15 trigger is done by a very select group of suppliers and then get an extra proof stamp here and there to show its path to market. Have five of each on the way. They were almost free on July 4th. paid 9.99 and 19.99 respectively. Bet the nickle will tune under three pounds easily without issue.

ALL FAL
July 06, 2017, 16:45
:) You do Great work Huey, I wish we were neighbors, life would be much more fun.

hueyville
July 07, 2017, 06:01
My goal is to find the absolute cheapest vendor for the best known quality trigger. I have a passel of Geisseles and other expensive triggers and have discovered if start with a decent milspec trigger and tools plus a few springs, a $20.00 trigger is every bit as nice as most $100 triggers. Can put $50 into a trigger and have 90% of a $200 to $250 trigger. That is a big pile of extra rifles at the end of the year with good triggers as opposed to spending the cost of an entire build on two trigger groups. Have discovered a 2.8 to 3.2 pound reliable single stage trigger with no creep is more accurate than a two stage trigger. If snap shooting taking up that first stage is problematic. If sear is sitting firmly on hammer notch and shooter is a crisp three pounds away from hammer fall with no squishy front end slop an AR will shoot as well as need. Like my experiments with lower cost optics, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes a winner rises to the top.

hueyville
July 07, 2017, 17:23
Colt triggers arrived today and ran one of the nickle boron trigger groups across the hammer and sear jig, tried to be meticulous with all contact areas, polished to 800 grit, used factory supplied Colt hammer spring then played with some random JP trigger and disconnector springs. Polished pins, cleaned well, installed in a lower and adjusted out all of the creep. Finger goes on trigger and doesn't move even a hundredth of an inch till pressure breaks the hammer loose at 2.77 pounds. Have to get an upper screwed together and test to make sure it lights hard primers but feels pretty stiff with the Colt factory hammer spring. Now to see if they will run on sale again, if they do will post it up. Tomorrow plan to tune one of the mispec standard Colt trigger sets. $20 to $30 quality triggers really are the make and break of my prolific number of builds.

Edit:
Going to machine the spur off one of the milspec to try making it a lightweight speed hammer and see if it runs better, worse or just turns to crap.