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Falfan2017
June 26, 2017, 08:30
What do you all make of the record Canadian shot? Do you think there's some type of targeting tech in play here that is not public? That bullet would have dropped hundreds of feet and the slightest variation in wind or anything would make a huge difference. I just don't see how it's possible for a traditional spotter and trigger puller to hit that.

brunop
June 26, 2017, 12:01
Yes.

brunop
June 26, 2017, 15:36
re .50BMG

https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-278282.html


To hit a target at 1000 yards, the max elevation will be 10 feet.

To hit a target at 2000 yards, the max elevation will be 72 feet.

To hit a target at 3400 yards, the max elevation is hundreds of yards.


Show me the rifle (Tac-50) with the scope (any) and the rail that allows a person to see a man-sized target at 1000 yards AND 3400 yards, and make adjustments across the reticle and rail range and deliver the hit

ALL FAL
June 28, 2017, 02:32
I Imagine the scopes they have now for it would be REAL EASY to make the hit.

This is one item I'm not sure I should talk about much, uncle might get pissed.

a .50, yeah, I agree with you Brunop, then again I do not know what scopes they have now in top secret lockers.

easttex
June 28, 2017, 12:27
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/22/10/41A1B72000000578-4628224-image-a-1_1498124276756.jpg

It looks to me like the US Army/USMC need to step up their game a little bit. They've been outshot by the Queen's troops :wink:



[Edit: I say this in a joking manner only...not trying to cast any aspersions anywhere.]

Guy-epic
June 28, 2017, 13:05
Trust me I have seen other ITAR items that make a 3,400 shoot looking like kids play. That's all I can say.

gordonm1
June 28, 2017, 23:15
So did anybody get the detail of whether this was a one shot kill or "wore out the barrel firing at a crowd of people at a flea market"?

Tuscan Raider
June 29, 2017, 00:36
Did a 1100yd shot in Oregon with M107. Took 5 shots to hit
head sized target. Good scope and custom ammo.

raubvogel
June 29, 2017, 05:32
It looks to me like the US Army/USMC need to step up their game a little bit. They've been outshot by the Queen's troops :wink:


IMHO, what is disturbing/surprising is that someone from a country who all but killed gun ownership -- UK -- was able to be on the top 3.

I Imagine the scopes they have now for it would be REAL EASY to make the hit.

If it was that easy they would be doing hundreds of such shots every week.

Trust me I have seen other ITAR items that make a 3,400 shoot looking like kids play. That's all I can say.

So you have access to scopes that can analyze the entire volume of air between shooter and target, predicting the atmosphere conditions at each station in the flightpath. And bullets (not even counting the self-guiding ones) and rifles, which you would have to kill us if you mentioned a mere digit from its part number, that combined with these super secret scopes can guarantee shots within 2" of where you aim at 10km. It must be, as your username implies, really epic being you then. I bet you could school a certain Finnish farmboy.

Guy-epic
June 29, 2017, 08:39
IMHO, what is disturbing/surprising is that someone from a country who all but killed gun ownership -- UK -- was able to be on the top 3.



If it was that easy they would be doing hundreds of such shots every week.



So you have access to scopes that can analyze the entire volume of air between shooter and target, predicting the atmosphere conditions at each station in the flightpath. And bullets (not even counting the self-guiding ones) and rifles, which you would have to kill us if you mentioned a mere digit from its part number, that combined with these super secret scopes can guarantee shots within 2" of where you aim at 10km. It must be, as your username implies, really epic being you then. I bet you could school a certain Finnish farmboy.


I didn't confirm nor will I say I haven't seen tech that can do far more then what you have described. When you work in R&D you start to learn that the line in the sand of possibility has not been drawn as it doesn't exist. The impossible is very possible. When the government has multiple letter named sectors have such massive budgets you would be in awe of what can be made.

ALL FAL
June 30, 2017, 18:18
I didn't confirm nor will I say I haven't seen tech that can do far more then what you have described. When you work in R&D you start to learn that the line in the sand of possibility has not been drawn as it doesn't exist. The impossible is very possible. When the government has multiple letter named sectors have such massive budgets you would be in awe of what can be made.

EGGZACTLY.

gordonm1
June 30, 2017, 22:36
Long talk about trying to come up with the firing solution by Schmidt Bender employee I think.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bzwY6jIwr2o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hope that embed worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzwY6jIwr2o

Falfan2017
June 30, 2017, 23:16
Wowed watched the whole video. So I'm thinking only explanation is lots of shots at a crowd and eventually one hit.
Or it didn't happen
Or there's some type of guiding system

brunop
July 01, 2017, 17:19
'C'


... or this is an example of "here - watch this", and God wanted that sniper to smoke that dude.

brunop
July 01, 2017, 17:21
So you have access to scopes that can analyze the entire volume of air between shooter and target, predicting the atmosphere conditions at each station in the flightpath...


This exists. There are laser range-finders that will tell your computer the wind speed and direction every 100 yards all the way to your shot.

google "LIDAR"

Thundermaker
July 15, 2017, 16:23
'C'


... or this is an example of "here - watch this", and God wanted that sniper to smoke that dude.

I'm thinking that had a lot to do with it.

CG&L
July 15, 2017, 16:56
I have to call BS on Guy-epic

raubvogel is correct
There are too many variables at such a distance. Variables don't make such a shot impossible, they make a shot unlikely.

You can throw all the sophisticated equipment you need at such a project and you will still come up with a hit probability.

With an accurate enough rifle, a miss is more than good enough if the spotter can see the impact. The spotter will relay what needs to be done. The shooter can adjust.

The biggest problem would be the spotter being able to see an impact at such a range.
As everyone has suggested, how big was the target(one person, small group or large crowd) and how many rounds fired?

hueyville
July 17, 2017, 01:58
I Imagine the scopes they have now for it would be REAL EASY to make the hit.

This is one item I'm not sure I should talk about much, uncle might get pissed.

a .50, yeah, I agree with you Brunop, then again I do not know what scopes they have now in top secret lockers.

Uhh, have seen such an animal in personal photos. Also a vehicle mounted 30 caliber "rifle" with input into projectiles after initial launch. Land wherever targeting laser is pointed. That's what was told the contraptions did in 20mm shoulder fired and 30mm tripod mounted.

mutter
July 17, 2017, 02:57
Hell, I couldn't see him at 2 miles to even know he was out there to point a gun at in the 1st place.

hueyville
July 17, 2017, 09:27
Firing solutions from two apps on only long shot of past week.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2zom17d.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cctk6v.jpg

282 yards on groundhog from an 18" ARP 6.8. Notice how close the free Nikon app was to the $11.99 Strelok Pro. Also entreed this shot into the $99 KAC Bullet Flight that is supposidly used by military snipers but it didn't give me a nice picture of scope dope but a wad of charts and numbers. I like the easy to use calculators. Have a Windows based PDA with a dot mil ballistics app that is military issue device and like my Strelok Pro best of dozens of apps and usually compare it's solution to whatever app scope manufacturer provides for scope in rifle of choice. Why above shot was run in Nikon App for their 2.5-10x 33m Monarch 7. If Strelok and scope makers solutions agree I don't hesitate to trust their solution. Strelok links wireless to my Kestrel and range finder and GPS plus weather data and more. Humidity, temp, spin drift, Coriolis Effect, up or down angle, distance, wind, load data down to temperature stability of powder is calculated in a $12 App.

Imagine the devices some of the optics we don't get to see have built in. Sure they link to drones, satellites calculate range tow within a foot and every single data point on rifle, ammo and conditions. My guess is they are using scopes that can automatically adjust dope for whatever cross hairs are centered on and then it's a matter of breath control, heart rate and trigger break. Have also seen data on bullets as small as 30 caliber that can make changes in flight path as travel toward data. DARPA says it's experimental but I believe anything they admit are playing with means it has been compromised, our foes know it exists so they let us red necks willing to dig through ton of their projects see the tip of the iceburg. I believe they have 50 caliber bullets in the field now that like missiles can adjust track while in flight, there is a lot of room in a 750 grain bullet to bury circuits and from what have read send electrical impulses that cause bullets to change shape just enough that they adjust their track in flight.

The 1.5 and 2 plus mile shots I think are coming from a rifle that might resemble a 50 but is more likely a 20mm or a dot gov wildcat 50 that laser tracks the projectile onto target if shooter is able to launch it within its ability to adjust track in a given distance. Also this bullet is moving 1,000 fps faster than what us civilians are accustomed to and have a significantly higher ballistic coefficient. A projectile could just move half a foot per mile as travels to target based on spotter holding his laser range finder on target that's a huge rule changer. Now imagine the spotter is like an artillery forward observer and is with a unit closer to target and paints the target for the sniper who stays well out of harms way in a near perfect position to provide covering fire. All this suggests is they have taken known capabilities going back decades and shrunk it enough for a 50 caliber or 20mm projectile. To me this does not seem like a reach at all to conceive as dot mil has admitted to playing with smart bullets for well over a decade in research.

A few years ago I never would have conceived I could snap a ground hog with a laser device and a near perfect firing solution for my rifle and scope would pop up on a screen in under a second with all mathematical and weathe related problems solved. My first shot hit factor on varmints at unknown range has gone up over 60% in past three years since my devices have all gotten smarter and are linked via Bluetooth. Cannot count number of shots have taken successfully past couple years would have totally passed on before these devices became available and so freaking accurate. Like difference between a GPS with selective error turned on by do gov or not. Back when only military and surveyors could get GPS without random selective error built in to keep terrorisks and foreign governments from using like we did in Gulf 1 to put missiles in the front door of buildings remember GPS only got me within sight of where needed to be most times. Now that selective error is disabled most of the time my GPS will take me to within inches of where I enter. Remember the first few weeks of Gulf 1? My fleet GPS's had my guys all messed up as dot gov maxed the selective error for civilian devices in case Sadam was using them. I think our military has smart rifles and smart bullets combined with some very talented shooters. I also know U.S. troops have made some long distance hook ups that are classified so which country actually has the longest sniper shot will likely not be known for years. If SEAL's and Delta are popping three and four mile targets do we want enemy to know what the stand off range is?

hueyville
July 18, 2017, 11:08
Sitting at home waiting on my 24 hour post sedation window to pass before drive to office for some book keeping catch up. Watched the above video and these guys assume a specific 750 grain ammo at 2,400 fps. Barrett claims from a 29" M80A1 their 661 grain ammo is 2,750 fps. I use Lilja's info on 50 caliber all the time and they claim a 34" barrel is optimum lemgth. Then using the same 750 grain bullet in video the bullets velocity from a 28" barrel goes transonic at 2,200 yards but the 34" barrel extends transonic distance to 2,500 yards. Have sat with different off shelf ammo in weights from 600 to 750 grains, ballistic coefficients from .50 to .68 and velocities from 2,400 fps to 3,300 fps. There are still some military loads in 7.62 that are 300 fps faster than I can replicate with off shelf powder. Military has chemists, physicists and mechanical engineers with ability to blend powders with different additives that us civilians have no access to. Then look at the 27 MOA rail on top of the Barret M80A1 plus a ring option that gives another 40 MOA of angle the shooter could have have 67 MOA off the shelf from Barret (you and I can order this up, not counting internal adjustment in scope) combined with the Night Force 8-32x scope using BORS on board trajectory computer the capabilities change tremendously from their assumed. They give an average temperature and humidity value for Afganistan but don't mention elevation. Average elevation is 4,000 feet above sea level but there is huge variation and the mountains combined with small size of country relative to U.S.A. skew average elevation numbers from our perspective.

Using a dot mil calculator with drop down for the Barret M80A1, other versions, barrel lengths from 28" to 34", various loads from 600 to 750 grains, velocities from 2,400 to 3,300 fps, believe realistic with them dot gov lab rats loading blended powders and using bullets made on some lathe us civilians have never seen, possibly a sabot round as have seen 50 caliber sabot loads with muzzle velocities as high as 4,700 fps launching 308 and 338 bullets. Add in 67 MOA of scope angle and the numbers are all over the map. Not even worth trying to save, convert and post all the charts have generated this morning but bottom line is its quite possible with proper mount, 1,000 yard zero on scope, faster and lighter bullet with high ballistic coefficient to put a human inside of scopes field of view for this shot.

Read where a previous record was set on third round and shooter said target never even noticed first two shots were aimed at him due to over a mile stand off range. My guess is a random gun shots over a mile away in Afganistan is not even something people notice or would be freaked out and hiding 24/7/365. Say it was a group of six to twelve enemy combatants, sniper was throwing Hail Mary shots at them from a couple miles could have likely lobbed a half dozen rounds without them taking note. At that range when finally hooked up a 50 caliber bullet still has the energy for a kill. So without magic classified equipment the shot is highly plausible from a morning of running the math. My guess is if it were a laser guided first round shot from classified system we would not even be having this discussion as the shot would not be discussed outside of unit that made it and their command. I believe we are getting the published long shots from pot shots these well trained guys take when have opportunity and then the classified shots we will hear about as classified systems get leaked and go public.