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baker72
June 20, 2017, 23:28
Not sure if this is a dupe thread, but I saw this at strum and thought I would post it , I don't know who the seller is and I don't have a dog in the fight

Cheers Will
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/7452-l1a1-barrels/

gunplumber
June 21, 2017, 08:09
I don't consider the company reliable. I've never had any dealings with them, because multiple inquiries on their L1A1 kits went unanswered. Multiple inquiries from others here went unanswered or had rather evasive responses.

My bullshit meter was twitching.

Jarhead504
June 21, 2017, 12:57
They need to have pictures of the bore from chamber end to muzzle and of the muzzle crown. The chamber needs to be clean and shiny as chrome is noted to be.

Jarhead

4markk
June 22, 2017, 20:45
This picture is not of a NEW barrel, it has been drilled for a gasblock. IF these are new production they are rifle pulls for some reason. The main reason to pull them off of a functional rifle is a defect.

Caveat Emptor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boris
July 02, 2017, 00:50
Any more word on this Company's L1A1 barrels? What kinda of question should I be asking if I too send a inquiry about the barrels and parts kits

hkshooter
July 02, 2017, 07:13
Any more word on this Company's L1A1 barrels? What kinda of question should I be asking if I too send a inquiry about the barrels and parts kits

If they have a return policy.

baker72
July 02, 2017, 07:47
I don't consider the company reliable. I've never had any dealings with them, because multiple inquiries on their L1A1 kits went unanswered. Multiple inquiries from others here went unanswered or had rather evasive responses.

My bullshit meter was twitching.

Well that pretty much tells you what you need to know , I mean if they can't answer the phone to buy Imange trying to get a refund ,

So this is the same mob that's offering kit a while back but would give details

Cheers Will

Falcon
July 02, 2017, 08:29
For what it's worth...I bought a few Sterling SMG kits and 10-pack of mags from them and things went very well.

gunplumber
July 02, 2017, 11:55
Update from Facebook.


Pete Hull Brad Washa I am Pete, the distribution mgr. at SMS and I'd like to thank you immensely for being the one who accurately and pointedly made the case for why we at Sarge's do not divulge the maker of the L1A1 barrel. Your comment on June 30, at 7:00 pm covered it well. Since the thread in fal-files occurred, I have decided to remain silent on the subject and wait for someone else to elude to the fact that there is good reason to protect your sources. The painful part is that the suspicion that has permeated the internet regarding the barrel and "BS meters" etc. and the lack of trust without actual hands on knowledge is only keeping good barrels out of the hands of people who just want to build an existing kit or purchase one with a new barrel. We have sold well over 20 of these L1A1 kits with zero backlash or issue with the barrel or any other part of the kit. There have been some small items that we, by policy, have remedied within hours of becoming aware, but no one has returned one of these kit for lack of satisfaction. I appreciate the knowledge you and the others on Fn FAL Owners has provided to everyone and especially myself as I strive to learn all I can regarding the FAL.

T Mark Graham Nice spin there, Pete. You go ahead and "protect your source". Without provenance on the US barrel, I cannot recommend anyone purchase it. And I get inquiries every week.

You want to sell the barrels separately? Suppose I get a build in with your unbranded barrel on it. Suppose it is the most fabulous barrel I've yet found. You gain no referral business from it, because I cannot recommend something with no means of identification.

This should be a no-brainer, but so far Curtis at AK Builder seems the only one who has enough confidence in his product to put his name on it. Sure, I can identify a DSA barrel by the different chamfer on the chamber face, and I can usually ID a Century/green mountain barrel by weight and the different contour. But I've had other barrels come through, good and bad for fal and ak, and I still have no idea where they came from. How is that of value?

Riddbits
July 02, 2017, 13:06
Knowing the story and background about these barrels, I am sure enjoying reading all of this.

Keep going Mark. when you finally stop to figure this all out, the face palm will be heard 'round the world. As for not knowing who they are, you sure spend a lot of time at their tables at the SAR West show.

I need popcorn.......

hkshooter
July 02, 2017, 13:09
I don't have a dog in this hunt but I'd have a hard time spending money on an item from an outfit I don't know of quality I'm unsure of when a "because we said so" is all the info on the item I get.

Riddbits
July 02, 2017, 13:14
I don't have a dog in the hunt either. I did ask if I could get a sample for a review of the barrel. Waiting to hear back from the owner.

hkshooter
July 02, 2017, 13:21
I don't have a dog in the hunt either. I did ask if I could get a sample for a review of the barrel. Waiting to hear back from the owner.

That would help a lot, I believe. The demand is there for quality barrels. Though it's eluded to in the above quote I cannot imagine a good reason to NOT divulge the source of a product, unless the origin of that product would suggest some sort of dishonesty in how it was appropriated.
Or possibly, the source may not want to be hammered by demand for a product outside of it's current retail source.
I'm just speculating obviously. Most makers of anything want that anything to be marketed and distributed to as many consumers as possible so to want to avoid divulging information that would lead to the promotion of the product is very odd.

gunplumber
July 02, 2017, 13:37
Knowing the story and background about these barrels, I am sure enjoying reading all of this.

Keep going Mark. when you finally stop to figure this all out, the face palm will be heard 'round the world. As for not knowing who they are, you sure spend a lot of time at their tables at the SAR West show.

I need popcorn.......

What's your point? I don't care who they are. I and my customers want to know what they are buying. And as mentioned above "because we said so" isn't helpful. As I stated above, I want the barrels to be great. But the evasiveness does not inspire confidence.

Michael Rihaly, Reno NV; Curtis Lynn Debord, Sparks NV . A Nevada LLC incorporated 1/31/16, out of Reno. Also - American Armament Systems, Battle Born Holdings, US Ord (with Dan Fassler and Rob Welesley) - but that appears to be a Curtis Lee Deborn, not Curtis Lynn Deborn. But again - I don't care. I just want to know the provenance of the barrels and how to identify them if they are good or poor.

Riddbits
July 02, 2017, 13:37
I agree, their "mysterious" attitude is silly in my opinion and I have told them that. On the other hand I fully understand why they maintain that attitude. Setting up an online retail outlet for product sales in quantities that your company would otherwise not deal in is a great idea. Disclosing your sources for products can either be due to proprietary issues or, as in this case, so people don't come pounding at your door. The problem that we are experiencing here is also compounded by a learning curve of the guy hired to sell all of this stuff. He is still learning and some of the technical questions that I imagine we, the users, are asking him are a little beyond his knowledge. He has to find out the answer in order to answer us.

I'll let you know about the barrel once I get it in hand.

Riddbits
July 02, 2017, 13:40
Well Mark, I think you just answered everyone's question as to who.

hkshooter
July 02, 2017, 13:52
Well Mark, I think you just answered everyone's question as to who.

If there was any doubt you likely just removed it. :biggrin:

I digress, I don't know any of the people or businesses listed above. I do certainly wish them the best of luck and hope they mature to the point of freely offering quality products to the FAL market.

BTW, I've never been able to get the sturm link to work.

hkshooter
July 02, 2017, 14:19
And 4markk raises a very good point, typically new barrels have not been drilled for cross pins and bolts. I have to wonder why these new barrels have this, if the barrel in the picture represents the actual product.

Riddbits
July 02, 2017, 14:36
Yes, he does make a good point about the gas block pin. One of the reasons I called about getting a sample.

Till I can pick it up and have it in hand.....

gunplumber
July 02, 2017, 16:47
I currently have 8-10 complete L1A1 kits minus barrels (two also missing selectors and rear sights). It is not an academic question. There is a real demand, I think, for good L1A1 barrels. I am interested in your assessment.

Two things that I notice from the pictures, is there is no breeching washer shoulder - this keeps the breeching washer centered. This shoulder is absolutely on the Enfield prints, but I don't have a Lithgow print. I seem to recall the shoulder not present on all Lithgow barrels. Some have a recess like on a FAL barrel.

And if it is chrome lined, as stated, the chrome does not extend to the chamber-mouth chamfer.

The former is an annoyance as the breeching washer will squish out in the direction of torque; the latter, is merely curious.

3Gunnah
July 02, 2017, 20:04
I would buy one in a heart beat if proven to be quality!! So far I have spent about $500.00 on barrels.........all have been as described buy the sellers, just not what I really wanted. I have gotten a bunch of parts I needed in the deals just not the MINT L1A1 barrel I want!

nwobhm
July 02, 2017, 20:09
Ad says chrome lined barrel. Why didn't they chrome the chamber? The picture, if of actual product, doesn't have a chrome chamber.

hkshooter
July 02, 2017, 20:18
The former is an annoyance as the breeching washer will squish out in the direction of torque; the latter, is merely curious.

I had trouble when I first learned of this when I put together my first inch rifle this spring. The aussie barrel I was using didn't have anything to center the breeching washer and when I tried to put the hand guard ring in place it wouldn't fit, had to retry and focus on the ring.
Markings on the barrel were sparse and the date code had been obliterated or removed but there's a faint set of crossed flags. Is this a Lithgow marking?

Striker1423
July 03, 2017, 06:42
This is extremely interesting to me, because I've been looking for a reason (besides drooling like a dog) to build my first FAL (cost aside).

I hadn't had a large interest in the rifles (gasp) :uhoh: for a long time. But, after building (minus Shuff's receiver work) my BM59 from the ground up, the little Italian lady has been whispering to me that she finds commonwealth boys irresistible.

Plus, I have watched '71 a few different times and love those L1A1's.

Well, the Aussie kits and an inch receiver were what I was thinking, and at just over 1100 into the kit and receiver (DSA), it seems feasible to be close to the cost of my BM59 (1750) and my 308 addiction could be happy as a clam.

My bet (and this is speculation) is that these barrels are from the same maker that the BM59 Ital barrel I bought NEW from Sarco was. No markings anywhere, not even an electro-pencil to show a chamber size. A quick barrel and finish ream and she runs, with awesome accuracy too. The only speculation as to who made it came from Shuff and it was a guess that for the life of me I can't remember. :confused:

Wasn't Criterion, but it was... oh man, I'll think of it. :shrug:

Thorack
July 03, 2017, 07:39
Well,

Until someone independent of the the seller reviews one of the barrels, they are an unknown. I dont risk money on unknowns, bottom line.

If they were sure of the quality they would send an example to GP for evaluation.

Thorack

Striker1423
July 03, 2017, 09:11
Well, if I ever get the funds together to pull this build off I'll review it. Unless a barrel is grossly OOS, I see no reason to not use one.

My biggest concern is safety. A barrel is an important part of what keeps hot shards of bolt/barrel/receiver metal away from your face. Money spent paid off for me on an unknown, but the ultimate risk for me was in the safety. So far, everyone I've talked to that have built their BM's off the Sarco barrel have had good luck and not one of them had any failures, including mine.

I remember what Tim suggested the barrel could be, simply because of who Sarco usually sources. It was Citadel. Now again, this was pure speculation, I'm not saying he was 100% positive on it and would never put him on the spot with such information, but in our conversation he recalled un-marked barrels through Sarco were possibly made by Citadel.

Riddbits
July 03, 2017, 11:18
I should have a barrel in hand tonight.

Thorack, I intend to be as open and upfront about my assessment of the barrel. I am not associated with the company, just know people that work there and asked them to do me a favor. They asked to borrow a barrel for me and were given one. I am hoping to get enough information to put any concerns to bed as to their origins and quality. I need a few too.

To let you all know how seriously I take this, I am pulling apart a rifle that Pat built with me on a DSA AD series inch receiver so I can measure fit and such. It's got a Brit kit on it now, so other than the sentimental value, I'm looking forward to putting an Aussie kit on it.

Have to get sponsor status to post pictures now......

Vulcanator
July 03, 2017, 12:49
I should have a barrel in hand tonight.

Thorack, I intend to be as open and upfront about my assessment of the barrel. I am not associated with the company, just know people that work there and asked them to do me a favor. They asked to borrow a barrel for me and were given one. I am hoping to get enough information to put any concerns to bed as to their origins and quality. I need a few too.

To let you all know how seriously I take this, I am pulling apart a rifle that Pat built with me on a DSA AD series inch receiver so I can measure fit and such. It's got a Brit kit on it now, so other than the sentimental value, I'm looking forward to putting an Aussie kit on it.

Have to get sponsor status to post pictures now......Thanks for being the guinea pig on this. There are plenty of guys looking forward to your review. Lets hope the barrel is a good one.

ExCdnSoldierInTx
July 03, 2017, 21:40
GunPlumber,

The last line in your signature looks like something I may have penned at one time :D:bigangel::bow:

Riddbits
July 04, 2017, 16:50
Well, I had three barrels delivered last night. I will get going on this review as soon as possible. There is an update that is going to be done to their website in the next few days. The barrels will be sold with a gas block installed and a flash hider. The gas blocks are Australian and the flash hiders are NOS Canadian. The price is to remain the same.

One thing I do know is that the drawings used to make these barrels came from the same source that Pat Jones used to make his, Mark Materne. For those of you who don't know, Mark is one the best sources for parts, drawings and connections in the industry, but usually only works at the wholesale level. He is a member here, but chooses not to participate much in our postings. I am putting his name in the post here with his permission.

I think that it would be best if I start a new thread for the review and I will post a link to it in this thread once I have everything up and ready.

thedave88
July 04, 2017, 18:24
:homerdoh::homerdoh::homerdoh::eyebrows::homerdoh:

Boris
July 05, 2017, 01:45
Riddbits, What kind of time line are you looking at before you can make your finding on these barrels know?

Riddbits
July 05, 2017, 09:58
Working on it now.

Riddbits
July 05, 2017, 18:44
Well, here it is.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416687

L1A1 lover
July 06, 2017, 12:23
Hello:
Being new to the L1A1, I can only state that I have an L1A1 kit from Sarges Military, and the barrel that came with the kit went together quite nicely.
I don't claim any more than novice, beginner in the FAL world, and my barrel came with the gas block installed.
I hope to be sending my rifle to T. Mark in the near future for refinishing.
He can evaluate the barrel then, if he doesn't get one sooner.
By the way, mine shoots very good.