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LAFAL
June 14, 2002, 12:10
I am trying to locate a source/supply house that will sell Manganese Dioxide to an individual in less than bulk (400#)
quanities. Anyone out there doing the mix your own parking and wouldn't mind sharing your source with me? Please post company and phone # if possible or email me.
Rant mode on:
You wouldn't believe the runaround that chemical manufacturers and supply houses give. Can't sell to gun businesses, can't sell to non-laboratory uses, can't sell in smaller quantities, etc. I can't believe that one of them doesn't want any cash business.
The one that chaffed my butt was the company (sigma) who I was able to set up an account with but in the finalization process decided that firearm refinishing was not an application that they would allow their chemicals to be used in. Geez.
rant mode off:

workn4it
June 14, 2002, 12:22
Search E-bay under the title of "FN FAL" somebody there is continuouly listing park kits for around $40. which include everything needed chemical wise anyway, I have not bought 1 as yet, but maybe another member here has and could clue us in to the quality,quantity,etc.

Ionman
June 14, 2002, 12:38
I suggest that you take a look at Doubleought's site, he has a number of great links for parkerizing as well as makes & sells tanks, heaters & accessories.

http://www.doubleought.com/index.html

I was able to find a lot of stuff on the Brownells site by searching for 'parkizing'.

Hope this helps you in your search.

Cheers

Blood of Tyrants
June 14, 2002, 13:01
It is easier to buy premixed solution from Brownells. A gallon of concentrate costs about $35 shipped and will make 9 gallons of solution.

If you are just the occasional WESCOG graduate, this should last you quote a while.

LAFAL
June 14, 2002, 13:40
Thanks for the replies but I don't WANT to use a kit. I would really like to mix my own with phosphoric acid, distilled H20, MnO2 and see what kind of results I get. I figure I need about 500 grams to last me several batches. But finding the chemical is kicking my butt. And since I read the thread on this board about how to do it I figured someone had a source.

TapperMan
June 14, 2002, 14:22
Check the sources listed in Doubleought's response in this thread (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18893) .

LAFAL
June 14, 2002, 15:10
Thanks, Tapperman! The links took me to exactly what I was looking for.

G_FAL
June 14, 2002, 19:53
From the WECSOG forum

I have been doing my own military-style finishing for a while. I ahve been
using a manganese phosphate process commonly known as Parkerizing. The
formula I use is this:

1000 ml distilled water
30 ml 85% phosphoric acid.
14 g Manganese dioxide (Mn02)
5 g fine iron filings.

It makes a little more than a quart and does a great job. I use a long
42x6x6 inch tank from http://www.parkerizingtanks.com/ and I get my
chemicals from
http://www.sciencealliance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=
1001 .

I am looking for a similar recipe for zinc phosphate. Has anybody got one?

I also have Blair Emory's recipe for hot blue. It's not pretty (comes out
almost black), but it is one of the most durable bluing finishes I have
ever seen. If anyone is interested, I can post it, too.

..Phil




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Doubleought
June 14, 2002, 20:12
Here's a direct link to my sources link page.

Sources for chemicals (http://www.parkerizingtanks.com/cgi-bin/links/links.cgi?t=thr&no=4&pg=1)

If anyone has more sources that they would like to share, please let me know and I'll add them to the page. Thanks. :)

medicmike
June 14, 2002, 20:38
I also have Blair Emory's recipe for hot blue. It's not pretty (comes out
almost black), but it is one of the most durable bluing finishes I have
ever seen. If anyone is interested, I can post it, too.

I think some of us would be very interested!;)

LAFAL
June 14, 2002, 21:02
Made an order online with Sciencealliance. Thanks for the replies and help. Order is on the way. My wife would kill me if I ordered a beadblaster from Harbor Freight. I wonder if she'd suspect me of ulterior motives if I suddenly developed an interest in garage/yard sales...............:D
Thanks again, folks. I love this board!!!!!!!!

G_FAL
June 15, 2002, 13:51
Blair Emory's blueing recipe

As posted on rec.guns in 1998:

>Hey Guys there are a couple of mistakes and some notes I showed put in.
>Will add all information for those who my see this for the first time. Sorry
>about that.
>
>1) The mix ratio is 5 lb lye (sodium hydroxide) to 2 1/2 lb ammonium nitrate
>(fertilizer), to 1 gallon water. Forget the parts per thing re water to lye
>and my formula. I meant to put NH4NO3 but fingers said hydroxide - ala
>sodium hydroxide.
>
>2) Grocery store lye and garden store fertilizer (33% with stuff, but that's
>what most all of it is) are good enough.. Make sure to not use tap water.
>Buy bottled water.
>
>3) Mix out doors as lots (and I mean LOTS) of ammonia gas evolves and will
>rot your lungs out if you sniff it. Were goggles as this stuff foams and
>bubbles like mad. Very violent exothermic reaction. Mix in a iron pail (not
>galvanized). Once mixed and operating the bath, there is no off gassing,
>put the vapors are corrosive so don't do it in your gun room or machine
>shop. Use plenty of ventilation.
>
>4) Bath operates at 285 to 295 degree F. If you don't have a thermometer,
>heat until a sample part will just sizzle cold water. Takes 15 to 45 min.
>depending on the steel and how dense a film you want.
>
>5) After you are done, take parts out, rinse in clean water, dry and oil.
>You are ready to go. If you don't like the depth of color after its dry,(but
>before you oil it) just put it back in the bath an cook it some more.
>
>6) Bath will do 10 to 15 jobs before you have to add about 1 lb lye to a 5
>gal bath to make up for boil off. Add water as required to keep the
>concentrations correct, but this does not seem critical.
>
>7) You MUST add enough water at bath cool down, to more than make up for
>boil off or it will solidify and you can't re-melt easy. If you add too
>much, I will just boil off next time.
>
>8) Make sure the parts are clean. Any oil will ruin the bath and job. Boil
>parts in TSP, Oakite or such first.
>
>9) Store in glass or plastic jugs between use, if it crystalizes , it is shot.
>
>10) You do not have to plug the bore as the magnitite film is harder than
>the steel and, if anything, should improve it. Possibly a little chemical
>milling too.
>
>I have made test coupons and put them in an open beaker of water for a month
>with no corrosion. Even light sanding will not break down the surface.
>
>Sorry for the goofs. Getting in a hurry always makes a mess.
>
>Blair
>

medicmike
June 16, 2002, 10:44
Thanks for the info. Sounds like that would be fun to try!

GSF1200
June 16, 2002, 10:50
G_FAL, have you used this mix?

G_FAL
June 16, 2002, 23:06
No , I have not used this mix.
It was recently posted on the WECSOG forum at Yahoogroups.com.

FALPhil
June 17, 2002, 20:12
That's my WECSOG post (as was the BB Emory bluing recipe). I have used the formula on two guns, a Mauser and a FAL. It gives a dark grey, very durable finish. I only use lab-grade components from Science Alliance and mix with distilled water. Try it. It's a lot cheaper than buying concentrate, plus you don't pay for shipping the water, since you can buy it at your grocery store.

I am looking for the corresponding zinc phosphate recipe, if anyone has it.

joanroco
June 18, 2002, 05:27
G_FAL,
Regarding your parkerizing formula:
How long do you leave them in the formula and at what temperature?
-Thanks

FALPhil
June 18, 2002, 15:51
I use a loooong Doubleought tank on a Coleman stove. I put a candy thermometer down at one end and I start parking when it gets to 150F (it's hotter in the middle). I cook the parts till they either quit fizzing or 20 minutes. If, after 20 minutes, the parts are not dark enough, I just put 'em back in.

As teh water in the solution evaporates, it is OK to add more, but make sure you only use distilled water.

Originally posted by joanroco
G_FAL,
Regarding your parkerizing formula:
How long do you leave them in the formula and at what temperature?
-Thanks

Ak_guy
June 18, 2002, 16:27
Originally posted by LAFAL
Made an order online with Sciencealliance. Thanks for the replies and help. Order is on the way. My wife would kill me if I ordered a beadblaster from Harbor Freight. I wonder if she'd suspect me of ulterior motives if I suddenly developed an interest in garage/yard sales...............:D
Thanks again, folks. I love this board!!!!!!!!


Dang you!!! YOu have fallen for the Harbour Freight cheap (price) tool drug!!! :D It'll drain your savings and cause the MRS to be ticked at ya!! ;) :)


On a totally un-related note I just got my Harbour Freight Hobby Arc welder in today! :) Its 2ft from my desk here at work and I have a urge to rip the box open and weld a large monstrosity!! :D

Gotta love free shipping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Doubleought
June 18, 2002, 20:03
Hey guys,

Just wanted to let everyone know that I've added a discussion forum to the Parkerizing tanks site! At first, I wasn't sure about doing it, but info and discussion on Parkerizing is so scattered around the web that I thought folks would appreciate a forum dedicated to it. Please check it out and let me know what you think!

Parkerizing Forum (http://www.parkerizingtanks.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)

OO :)

FALPhil
June 18, 2002, 20:29
Hey 00,

I registered and received a password, but when I try to log in, I get a password error - even when I cut and paste.

Suggestions?


Originally posted by Doubleought
Hey guys,

Just wanted to let everyone know that I've added a discussion forum to the Parkerizing tanks site!

OO :)

Doubleought
June 18, 2002, 21:00
Phil,

AHH! The joys of new software! Please send your info/problems to jackiemc@g2a.net Jackie is the brains of this h'yar outfit! :)

Jeff

tx timber rattler
June 18, 2002, 21:20
FALPhil,
I got same plm you got at first try but got in just recently. Try ENTER on keyboard after the password then click on LOGIN with mouse.

mountain man
June 19, 2002, 17:10
A cheap source of manganese dioxide is the black paste inside regular D batteries. Not the alkaline types, the plain old zinc carbon cells. Cut them open, dump the black paste into a jar, add hot water, mix well, let settle. Pour off the zinc chloride solution, and repeat. The black powder left over is about 2/3 MnO2 and 1/3 plain carbon. Worthwhile for experimenters on a budget.:D

medicmike
June 19, 2002, 20:29
A cheap source of manganese dioxide is the black paste inside regular D batteries.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of knowledge that is present on this board!

LAFAL
June 27, 2002, 13:01
UPDATE***
With the luck I'm having from Science Alliance getting my order I might have to resort to cutting up batteries! These folks email doesn't work and no one will answer the phone. I think batteries would be cheaper. :mad: