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View Full Version : Bad experience with a product for fals/L1A1's


Darwinsmistake
May 23, 2017, 04:13
I purchased a Buffer Technologies buffer. I purchased these thinking they would stop any damages due to the so called violent recoil (their words not my own) . Since I added mine in my L1A1 I have had extraction issues. At first I thought perhaps I had installed it wrong somehow. Well that was not the issue. My personal advice is not to use these at all!

Please note: When I had purchased these I did not check the files (prior write ups here on Fal Files) and no one is to blame here as there are some good discussions here.

I wish I had done a search on these.Because the advice here which was something like "its better to understand and use the gas system to tame the recoil" makes a heck of a lot of sense! So in fact I can only blame myself.

But maybe I can help others in advance by writing this.
I absolutely love these rifles! They have been used by many countries around the world with tremendous success without the use of a Buffer add on such as this.

Buffer technologies was only trying to make things a bit better while selling a product. They meant well. But these do not work well.At least not in my opinion.

For those of you viewing my pics and cringing due to my quadrail and fore grip.. Sorry in advance ! ;-)


<a href="https://ibb.co/naQW0v"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/goCB0v/20170523_030804.jpg" alt="20170523_030804" border="0"></a>


<a href="https://ibb.co/eovaSa"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/ivpPLv/20170523_030811.jpg" alt="20170523_030811" border="0"></a>

hkshooter
May 23, 2017, 07:17
I've always operated on the premise that if a firearm design needs a buffer the designer would have incorporated one.
I've never had a problem.

J. Armstrong
May 23, 2017, 07:52
I must say I have always used these in all my FALs with uniformly good results. Over the years this probably amounts to several dozen rifles and many thousands of rounds. I have had problems on only two occasions and in both cases there was an underlying, previously unnoticed problem with the rifles. Not saying you are incorrect, but of any problem a buffer could cause, extraction seems pretty low on the list.

My thought was never to reduce recoil with the buffer, as I find the FAL to be pretty gentle in that department. Rather, I figure that anything that reduces wear, even minutely, on what is an expensive rifle, is a good thing. That said, in a SHTF situation, I would agree with hk for sure. I would say that there are several reasons why M. Saive would not utilize a buffer in military service even though it might have desirable benefits in other (civilian) use.

Anyway, use of the buffer is definitely a personal choice, and I am not faulting your experience or decision. However, I will gladly give any wyward buffers a good home - I like them a lot :biggrin:

DakTo
May 23, 2017, 08:12
FAL recoil buffers are an aftermarket item like the quad rail and fore grip which are hyped to sell and tend to add nothing but an illusion of progression.
The FAL was and is not a platform no matter how hard current marketers try to sell their add on junk. Seemingly, when the vast majority of quality parts dries up the manufactures come up with gimmicks to stay in business.

Does the recoil buffer do any good or harm? I don't think so either to the bolt carrier or the lower receiver back plate. I have used these before and don't see a discernible difference before or after use.
Perhaps you may consider thinning down the material of the recoil buffer and see if that corrects the short stroking.

vmtz
May 23, 2017, 08:17
90 countries who adopted the FAL didn't use them. Why would you?

Vince

gunplumber
May 23, 2017, 08:33
buffer does not cause extraction problems. Extraction and ejection are completed prior to reaching buffer. Same on AK.

Darwinsmistake
May 23, 2017, 09:24
Well maybe there is some issue with my rifle? I borrowed a friends inch pattern mag because I wished to shoot this rifle. I had the buffer installed before we went out and starting sending rounds down range. We shot the HK's first and then we picked up our Fals well his fal and my L1A1. I fired and a round went off and I pulled the trigger again and got a click. Looked at the rifle and a spent case was hung up halfway out of the chamber. So I cleared it and advanced another round into the chamber. Basically the same thing happened. So we took the mag out cleared the chamber , cracked the rifle open and checked everything out including the biffer. Slapped the mag back in and went through basically the same issues for another 4 rounds. So we completely removed the buffer and reloaded it and started shooting again. We filled that mag 4 times and all 4 times we emptied that 20 rounder without a issue at all.so maybe I have the gas system set up wrong if it's not the buffer?

I can not explain it since I am new to these rifles. I just spoke of what happened and made a suggestion on what I had experienced. So if I said something or came to a conclusion on my experience then accept my apology.

I won't be using a Buffer in this rifle again unless someone leaves advice on what the issue may be.

Darwinsmistake
May 23, 2017, 09:33
90 countries who adopted the FAL didn't use them. Why would you?

Vince

That is a pretty fair statement. Although I do not believe this rifle to have a issue with a "violent" enough recoil to worry much about internal damage. I just figured it would extend the life of this rifle some.

Gunplumber is a well respected member and I trust his comment. So I figure it's a issue with the rifle or gas system? I don't know what to think? But I won't use it again..I most certainly do know I meant no offense. I honestly do respect what you all say. I came here to learn..

Darwinsmistake
May 23, 2017, 09:39
Thank you to the rest who commented as well. From not worrying about them being important or the manufacturers would be installing them. Or to the one who uses them without any issues.

I am going to see what I can figure out aand then I will update my findings. I really love this rifle and I suppose just trying to make it a better rifle .
If you read what some say in this link it would seem a few also had the same issues with extraction while using these buffers..

http://www.l1a1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9644

I forgot to add.. Thanks to several members I have finally purchased wood furniture. The forend and grip is comming and the wood stock I am buying from a member here. So as soon as he and I work things out I will have this rifle wearing wood.

gunplumber
May 23, 2017, 10:01
I don't use the buffer. I see no benefit.

But physics is what it is.

A= extraction
B= ejection
C= buffer

If C occurs after A and B,
C cannot have caused A and B.

J. Armstrong
May 23, 2017, 12:54
I don't use the buffer. I see no benefit.

But physics is what it is.

A= extraction
B= ejection
C= buffer

If C occurs after A and B,
C cannot have caused A and B.

Ah, but A2 and B2 occur after C1 ;)

J. Armstrong
May 23, 2017, 12:55
I don't use the buffer. I see no benefit.

But physics is what it is.

A= extraction
B= ejection
C= buffer

If C occurs after A and B,
C cannot have caused A and B.

Ah, but A2 and B2 occur after C1 ;)

But I agree that it is an unlikely suspect barring some other fault in the equation.

gunplumber
May 23, 2017, 14:08
Ah, but A2 and B2 occur after C1 ;)

But I agree that it is an unlikely suspect barring some other fault in the equation.

Yes, they do, but it was not a "bolt moving forward" malfunction. It was a bolt moving back malfunction. Unlikely to cause a failure to chamber either, as return spring tension is measured from the point of the BHO. Still gives room before buffer contact.

Were the cyclic rate higher and the gun a full auto, I could see shortening travel potentially interfering with the cycle of ammo bounce in the bag and causing a BOB. But that ain't what's going on.

Capt D
May 23, 2017, 15:04
Ever do any firing without the buffer, after the issue began? Just curious...what were/are your gas settings, how's your mag fitment, is the gas port and tube clean, does the carrier raceway have any burrs, gas piston straight, etc? Asking only because none of this has been addressed, and sometimes such unhappy coincidences do occur at odd times. I use these buffers, and the only times I had issues were when non-related issues surfaced (such as needing to open a gas port due to barrel length). GP does have a point, and it very well could be a combo of things not involving the buffer...YMMV

machinegunner
May 23, 2017, 17:15
I find that the buffer falls down not allowing the bolt to go all of the way back.

meltblown
May 23, 2017, 17:26
I have never seen any strike marks that would indicate the BC hitting the recoil plate on any FALs of mine. It's just another thing to have to fidget with when locking the upper and lower together.

Darwinsmistake
May 24, 2017, 03:08
Ever do any firing without the buffer, after the issue began? Just curious...what were/are your gas settings, how's your mag fitment, is the gas port and tube clean, does the carrier raceway have any burrs, gas piston straight, etc? Asking only because none of this has been addressed, and sometimes such unhappy coincidences do occur at odd times. I use these buffers, and the only times I had issues were when non-related issues surfaced (such as needing to open a gas port due to barrel length). GP does have a point, and it very well could be a combo of things not involving the buffer...YMMV

To answer the best I am able. Gas setting is on 4.. As for mag , I am using a friend's 20 rounder because metric mags came with the rifle and do not function properly. I have no issues with the buffer removed . The piston is super clean and the tube itself is clean and tight. The areas where the bolt makes contact are nice and smooth with no burrs.Rolling the piston across a smooth surface showed no wobble at all. I was informed by a gunsmith that anytime you add something that shortens the stroke it could cause things such as failure to feed because we have then interrupted the full cycle.

I removed a bit of material from the front of the buffer and that seemed to do the trick. I had one failure to extract out of 80 rounds otherwise it functions flawlessly. The firearm itself is always clean before a day of target's begin. I am a clean and keep it lubed freak.

The truth is I find it less painful to just remove it and then there are no issues.

hkshooter
May 24, 2017, 07:23
Hmm.

Modify part, rifle works better.
Remove modified part, rifle works perfectly.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

vmtz
May 24, 2017, 08:44
Hmm.

Modify part, rifle works better.
Remove modified part, rifle works perfectly.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

So what you're saying is the most logical thing is to put the buffer back in?

Sounds like a plan.

I can see how 90 countries would be wrong?

Vince

Darwinsmistake
May 24, 2017, 20:44
Haha! Okay guys. I am going to live wild and just leave the buffer out. I like living on the edge and winging it. Guys I love the L1A1 and Fals and I can not wait for my DS arms para!

As for the buffer. I am running one in each of my h&k clones as well as my H&K. I am running a Accu-wedge in one of my AR-s and buffer technologies buffers for my Mini-14 and AK rifles with no issues.

I am not new to the world of firearms. But I will add this.

Truthfully you are the greatest group of firearms related people I have met on ANY forum! I do not wish to alienate any of you or cause a riff so I feel unwelcome. I wish to return here for further advice. I also will become a contributing member both verbally and financially here..

The level of respect I hold for you all is high. I am prior military and have handled many weapons (although I feel like a cub scout at times)

I need the information many here can provide and have provided.

So if there is anyway I can be of service just know I am only a message away.

Right now my favorite toys (because AR's have become boring) is my L1A1 and my Savage 6.5 creedmoor predator. One of my next purchases is to be a Canik.

Thank you.

Invictus77
May 24, 2017, 21:47
the greatest group of firearms related people I have met on ANY forum!

troo dat !

(although some of the SEC crowd can be a bit sketchy at times :whistling: )

hkshooter
May 24, 2017, 22:24
So what you're saying is the most logical thing is to put the buffer back in?

Sounds like a plan.

I can see how 90 countries would be wrong?

Vince

That's not what I said at all, read it again.

Darwinsmistake
May 24, 2017, 23:06
Wait since none of the 90 countries were America. They are all wrong! :-P haha