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View Full Version : Australian L1A1...the Unicorn SLR in the USA


IHCM1
April 23, 2017, 17:41
Can anyone tell me when the last non import, matching numbered, Australian L1A1 was seen on the open market in the US? If so, what did it bring? Im not interested in discussing the "legality" stigma that often goes along with these or how they came to reside in the states. We know they are here, we know they are ultra rare, we know that at some point in time they change ownership, and we know we all want one. I am curious as to how that happens. Are they one of those things that gets traded among the ultra elite advanced collectors, or is it something bubba finds in the back of grandpas closet after the funeral? :whistling::)

ActionYobbo
April 23, 2017, 18:24
Can anyone tell me when the last non import, matching numbered, Australian L1A1 was seen on the open market in the US? If so, what did it bring? Im not interested in discussing the "legality" stigma that often goes along with these or how they came to reside in the states. We know they are here, we know they are ultra rare, we know that at some point in time they change ownership, and we know we all want one. I am curious as to how that happens. Are they one of those things that gets traded among the ultra elite advanced collectors, or is it something bubba finds in the back of grandpas closet after the funeral? :whistling::)


the last non import never came. if it did it would be an import. so your question has no answer other than never because you ask has any one seen a thing that was never here to be seen. the leo models that were imported by century are imports. the ones imported from Canada were imports. there was no Australian factory set up over here so there is no non imports

Thorack
April 23, 2017, 18:40
Well,

It would be a grey market leo gun. Not as valuable as a Poyer, but maybe worth more than an Eden kit gun. Market is soft right now. You would get over $2k but less than $4k is my guess. Condition would be very important.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it.

Thorack

D. Lehrman
April 23, 2017, 19:26
"IF" a single import from the distant past (with provenance and papers) or one of the unseen Onyx complete guns - unlimited price range depending on particulars.

"IF" a Century LEO import - few quantity and no where near Poyer territory...you've had the advice there.

"IF" a Canadian un-papered walk across = a whole lot less than either of the above. A lot more likely to be subject to confiscation if exam comes up, and I wouldn't even waste my money (as I like to be able to take them where I want, when I want and don't want more to do with BATF and/or the legal system).

Ask me how polite ATF Field Agents are when they do show up plus my lawyer $500 per billable hour anymore; my unfettered enjoyment of life worth much, much more. They also tend to show up with Sheriff or local law leading up the walkway, and don't give a rats ass on what...you'll forfeit all things that go bang or in the least suspicious for a while. Got anything really collectable? You'll love the way they treat em.

Yes, there are guns in this country. Many years back I saw a very, very nice un-papered Belgian M1 sell in all it's woody goodness around $3500 - many years back (20 now or so at least). Depending on what you are up to...you could wait years, or decades for the "right" gun. Most get held real closely if they don't fall into the first two categories. The walk across guns in the northern territories are more common than the righteous or even gray area LEOs of legit AU vintage.

I always say you likee, you buyee. I like my hard earned $$$ to be solidly worth whatever purchase, now, and in the future.

My opinion entirely mine, yours is yours...no charge, my take worth even less than the one above.

IHCM1
April 23, 2017, 19:41
Whoops, meant non import marked. Thanks for the replies so far.:fal:

D. Lehrman
April 23, 2017, 20:35
Well, where did it come from without papers or import marks...I wonder. There are a lot of ones that leaked across in the trunk of a car in earlier times up along the border. You are the only one that can put a "worth" on it. I get them with proof of import and value. I truly doubt the dollar value of anything in a category that can't be resold or increase in value over the long term.

Movie quote of the night: "I like munnnnny!" (Idiocracy)




'Specially when it was I who worked for it...there was a nice G series gun that turned up a few years back that Cabellas took in trade and turned out to be a suspected one that grew legs and walked across the border....it ended up worth a lot less than what they thought when ATF destroyed it. The long and sordid details are here on site somewhere. Read em', it was disgusting to more than one of us here.

Snayperskaya
April 23, 2017, 22:31
Seems to me the burden of proof on anything in this country currently is on whatever agency decides they have a problem with it.

armed2012
April 23, 2017, 23:00
Can anyone tell me when the last non import, matching numbered, Australian L1A1 was seen on the open market in the US? If so, what did it bring? Im not interested in discussing the "legality" stigma that often goes along with these or how they came to reside in the states. We know they are here, we know they are ultra rare, we know that at some point in time they change ownership, and we know we all want one. I am curious as to how that happens. Are they one of those things that gets traded among the ultra elite advanced collectors, or is it something bubba finds in the back of grandpas closet after the funeral? :whistling::)

Theyre not really ultra rare.. I catch one pop up every few months on gunbroker..tons of people brought them illegally from canada... alot more came that way than legally...in fact there is one on there now and it looks brand new and he is DREAMING at 6k... there are very few LEGIT L1A1'S here that the atf know about... a joe poyer is the only numbers matching, semi auto, papered & legal Australian L1A1 in the usa.. some EDEN and ONYX are legit imported receivers built on aussie parts kits and bring MORE than non imported marked grey market guns... its like some of the illegal right hand drive cars that are imported before the age requirements.. yea theyre cool but they will be crushed if you get caught and for that factor alone the "elite" collectors will only pay a few grand maybe 3 for one because its not really a safe investment... if you had some paperwork with one from a bring back or private import prior to 1968 i would pay nearly 6-10 times what an ol trunk gun sells for... the ones without import marks definitely arent the unicorn

Stoney
April 23, 2017, 23:18
years ago i saw a VN aussie bring back, i always wondered what it was worth. i wrote its # in my copy of Skennerton's book AD63107xx

C2A1
April 23, 2017, 23:26
This FAL thing is really strange. It is because the laws and the enforcement are so vague and poorly written. I've talked with ATF/lawyers/judges and the FAL is a real problem. Basicly, it comes down to, that they let the G series stay. It basicly violates the "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" fantasy. I remember a case in Maryland, where the lower courts said that the G series set the standard for FALs and that calling other sear cut FALs "machine guns" was placing to much burden on the public when basicly the ATF declared they were OK. Now this was before the Cabella case. In talking with field agents, they can't afford to lose cases so unless clear evidence of sear installation or criminal intent as a practical matter they just keep on moving. Of course that may be true in Texas under a conservative adminatration but in Washington state under Obama, something else. So in the end sear cut FALs are a "catcha 22 ". As time goes on it gets worse, as Jr Gmen give folks a hard time over selector switches hoping to get budget increases or promotions. Just the way of the world.

C2A1
April 23, 2017, 23:34
I have also seen a VN aussie bring back many many moons ago. The rifle was pre-68 both in build and when it came in country. Guy had diplomatic paperwork with it. Wonder how that would be viewed?

IHCM1
April 24, 2017, 07:01
Anyone ever see a Vietnam bring back sell? If so, for how much?

lysanderxiii
April 24, 2017, 12:57
Well, where did it come from without papers or import marks...I wonder.
There once was a time when import marking requirements were different . . .

Impala_Guy
April 24, 2017, 15:42
This FAL thing is really strange. It is because the laws and the enforcement are so vague and poorly written. I've talked with ATF/lawyers/judges and the FAL is a real problem. Basically, it comes down to, that they let the G series stay. It basicly violates the "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" fantasy.

Those two rulings right there and the other flubs they've made with the sear cut Steyrs and Century imported L1A1s. It all comes down to the un Constitutional 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA and the power it basically gives unelected (and usually uninformed) bureaucrats to make arbitrary and burdensome laws out of whole cloth. As an experienced class III manufacturer here has opined, any FAL can illegally be made into a sear cut machine gun with a Dremel tool, the right parts and a little time and patience, yet there are thousands of sear cut FALs out there that are perfectly legal, have not been illegally tampered with, and are harming no one. Then again, we are talking about a bunch of people who declared a sneaker string to be a machine gun, and a copper dishwashing scrub pad to be a suppressor.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/foghorn/atf-classifies-pot-scrubbers-as-silencers-makes-possession-illegal/

D. Lehrman
April 25, 2017, 22:02
There once was a time when import marking requirements were different . . .

Good luck with that argument when your court date comes.
There was also an "amnesty" registration.

I wasn't born yesterday. My lawyer now charges over $500 per billable hour (and he's good). I don't want to spend my hard earned $$$ on worthless things, worhthless pursuits. AND I know exactly what the marking requirements are today, what they were before, and what ATF Field Agents look for plus how stupid they are. That's a party I don't plan to attend.

You do as you choose. If you all believe so fervently the courts and ATF are so weak in the various actions, bait em' in and get that challenge going in court. It's not that hard, just expensive.

(Hint: I watched the '68 amnesty posters go up in the post office. Not the first one to the game, not the last, not into wasted $$$ and never look over my shoulder when they are out of the safe and walking about.)

Abominog
April 25, 2017, 22:25
Seems to me the burden of proof on anything in this country currently is on whatever agency decides they have a problem with it.

That ended somewhere around 1860.

Certainly by the Arnold case in 1972. He got his guns back. The government didn't say "sorry" or "let us reimburse you".

The US government agencies are like corrupt Walmart buyers. They buy the can of paint, and return the empty can. They get the room painted. You get the empty can back.

DakTo
April 26, 2017, 07:17
Can anyone tell me when the last non import, matching numbered, Australian L1A1 was seen on the open market in the US? If so, what did it bring? Im not interested in discussing the "legality" stigma that often goes along with these or how they came to reside in the states. We know they are here, we know they are ultra rare, we know that at some point in time they change ownership, and we know we all want one. I am curious as to how that happens. Are they one of those things that gets traded among the ultra elite advanced collectors, or is it something bubba finds in the back of grandpas closet after the funeral? :whistling::)

More frequently those C&R's get traded face to face or in the backroom of a dealer to known persons.
I saw an original Australian for sale about 25 years ago and it sold for $2200.
Once in a great while one will pop up in a gun shop/show or on the internet.
There are a few cases where someone will find & purchase an original, contact the police for information and they would forward it to BATF&E. At that point is gone forever.

IHCM1
April 26, 2017, 07:52
Wow! I never would have guessed they would have sold for that much back then! Thank you for the reply.

Brian in MN
April 27, 2017, 08:51
'Specially when it was I who worked for it...there was a nice G series gun that turned up a few years back that Cabellas took in trade and turned out to be a suspected one that grew legs and walked across the border....it ended up worth a lot less than what they thought when ATF destroyed it. The long and sordid details are here on site somewhere. Read em', it was disgusting to more than one of us here.


That story is actually worse, Dean. The box has the original shipping label attached, from Browning Arms in St. Louis to a shop in St. Louis Park MN. ATF knew damn well that it was sold legally. Someone made a clerical error and it did not make it onto the list so they destroyed it without even telling Cabella's that they were going to do so.

That's how much they respect your property. And that's what they think about "grey area" guns.

D. Lehrman
April 27, 2017, 09:32
Thank you Brian, like nightmares when I awaken...I try to get these things to recede in my memory with varying success. Yes, I recall the exact circumstance as we all discussed it and as it was happening...and you are 100% spot on. Also, not the only abuse of their "interpretive" powers that's ever taken place by a long, long shot. They can be as stupid as stupid can be...most really have no interest in anything but blind execution of their "authority" whether it's correctly applied or not.

MilsurpMonkey
April 27, 2017, 09:51
Honestly this whole topic on sear cut L1A1s gets beaten to death. What value on them comes down to, is who is willing to pay what. To someone who doesn't want the risk, they're worthless. To someone who has to have one, they're whatever two parties agree on. Due to their nature there is no baseline value, potential value, or other value. If you want one, pay whatever the guy wants for it when you find it. If you don't, don't worry about it. There will always be buyers on them at any point in the price spectrum, but you'll rarely ever hear of prices paid, again, because of their nature.

hueyville
April 27, 2017, 12:33
Have an Aussie kit and a Brit kit with U.S. made inch uppers. Know where I can get an Aussie upper that was cut in half (not the six pieces mandated) with a band saw and my part time welder who is certified up to nuclear pressure vessels says he could allow for width of cut, TIG weld it, go over with hard facing rod have guy at his full time job machine shop job put it back into specifications then heat treat (not necessarily in written order of events) and would be more likely to break anywhere else but his weld up. Then I have a possible 10 years in the pokey, $10,000 fine and all my toys confiscated in the process. Nahh, it would still be a clone even if he welded all the numbers, machined flat, re-stamped and engraved to make it a total forgery.

If I were to find a legal unicorn and purchased would have to consider every time pulled out of the vault if was in pristine condition could lose a grand in value for a few brass kisses or handling mark. I like guns I can wail on and not worry about hurting their collector value and guns that do not involve a trip to the pokey. Have one rifle that is one part short of 922r and is in two pieces till get that squared away. Have several riFAL's that are 922r compliant with the correct parts in a box with the serial number they go to if it mattered, once they lose their original upper all are just clones, 922r compliant or not, so prefer to be legit with some original parts in a box all legal like.

Would like a proper Aussie and a proper L2a1 very much but if found either that were legal the price will take the fun out of them as would be vault queens. Have on FAL vault queen and its enough. Reason sold me entire Winchester 1886 collection. Market went way up and didn't want to risk a $2,000 dent in stock/scratch/spot of rust removing from vault. Cashed them in and built or purchased a dozen shooters for every vault queen. Reason I landed here was at same time sold the two nice FAL's I owned and then decided I missed them to figure out have to live in a clone world. Of course at the time had no intention of buying any guns was trying to clean up my estate for wife and freaking lived.

I can't imagine letting one "grey market" gun put entire collection and freedom at risk. Right agency, right jury and right jury and it will all be done if even goes as far as judge and jury. Could just confiscate and dare you to spend six figures in attorney fees recovering something they will claim was destroyed two weeks after seizure. That's just me, but if found a numbers matching "import" under $2,000 that was a maybe might buy it, send a letter and if told it was on the naughty list mail them the receiver as a good citizen then build the parts on a DSA and call it an interesting kit.

BUFF
April 28, 2017, 03:35
Has anybody been prosecuted, let alone even criminally charged, for having a sear cut, non-dinked with Brit, Aussie or Canuck L1A1? Had one taken away and not returned?

hueyville
April 28, 2017, 05:11
Has anybody been prosecuted, let alone even criminally charged, for having a sear cut, non-dinked with Brit, Aussie or Canuck L1A1? Had one taken away and not returned?

I would be the first if not happened. Way my luck rolls. 12 people can sit down rto dinner and I am the one that waitress spills pot of coffee on and brings wrong plate of food. Anyone that can get a speeding ticket for 27 mph in a 25 mph zone just has to be careful.

DakTo
April 28, 2017, 06:02
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/Joe_zpstryflys2.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/Joe_zpstryflys2.jpg.html)