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View Full Version : Springfield M1C Garand... or is it a Marine MC 1952 Garand?


PvtJoker
April 15, 2017, 19:18
Any love for the M1C Garand? I traded into one today that has been authenticated as being an original M1C receiver s/n and having been sold by the CMP around 2000 or so, and has the mount on the side (but no scope or rail) and has the SA-52 rebuild mark on the heel of it (which with the excellent condition SA parts and 53 barrel indicates it was one of 368 M1C rifles rebuilt by SA in 1952). BUT the serial number is supposed to date it as being one of 11 built between November and December 1944, which makes it a real WWII Garand sniper rifle and a very early one at that. It has the G&H non-numbered base on the side but no scope mount or scope. The rifle has a pretty rare history as an early WWII M1C. Perhaps even early enough to be one of the few that may have actually saw deployment at the end of the war? Possibly in Korea as well? But then it got sent back to SA to be overhauled and rebuilt in the SA-52 program, most logically because the original parts had been worn out in combat in WWII and Korea. The barrel and all the mechanical parts are in excellent condition and it looks almost new from a quick field strip internally. Do you guys think I should just go with a repro scope and stick with the rebuild version, or try to find the correct December 1944 parts and try to put it back into that shape (albeit with the SA-52 heel mark still denoting it had been rebuilt previously)? I'm interested in opinions, but I am into this rifle pretty deep based upon the s/n having been authenticated as an M1C so not scoping it at all is not really why I traded into it. I know some purists will say to leave it without the scope but the base has already been added by someone before me, so I might as well use it, IMHO. Or...

One other thought crossed my mind about this rifle. I understand that the USMC MC-1952 rifles were built from WWII M1C rifles.There isn't a lot of information I could find on how to identify one of those from a regular M1C, except that they were supposedly rebuilt at SA around the same timeframe as the SA 52 rebuild program that included 368 M1C rifles from WWII. Is there any way to figure out if this might be one of the Marine Corps MC-1952 ones?

I will add that this rifle being auctioned by James D. Julia as an original MC-1952 appears to be the same as mine in almost every detail I could compare from the pictures, from the stock markings all the way to the SA 52 rebuild mark, so IF this one is legit, then mine may be as well.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-373-springfield-armory-mc-52-usmc-sniper-rifle-31838/

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170414_205927_zpsbmjus656.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170414_210006_resized_zpson5ojxp1.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170414_205945_resized_zpswcpg5fah.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170414_205934_resized_zpshryzuews.jpg

SPEEDGUNNER
April 15, 2017, 19:26
There is tons of speculation out there regarding the SA-52 rifles. I have heard it definitively both ways. Regardless it is a cool rifle, and with the bracket you are ready to go. The unnumbered bracket is indicative of an MC-52. You will find the bracket to be a tad higher than a standard M-1C, to allow the larger Kollmorgen scope to clear.

Tuscan Raider
April 15, 2017, 22:52
Are original scopes available still? If you are already
in deep, put it back to original M1C specs.

denny
April 16, 2017, 00:02
A friend found a M1 where the C mount had been removed and the holes plugged.
As far as I know he left it as is.
I've seen 52 rebuilds with the 52 stamped on the receiver flat behind the rear sight.
Denny

ArtBanks
April 16, 2017, 04:47
I have a Greek return M1C. I contacted Griffin and Howe and purchased their newer scope mount which gives more clearance for a scope. Then I picked up a repro M84 and they make an excellent combination.
You know, if you have a C, you need a D too.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0721_zpscalbeasd.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0721_zpscalbeasd.jpg.html)

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0722_zpsefwy3une.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0722_zpsefwy3une.jpg.html)

Semper Fi
Art

PvtJoker
April 16, 2017, 23:15
Art; I used to have an M1D but I sold it about 9 years ago. It was not an original, but was built with all original parts.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1D%20Garand/DSC02201.jpg

I just won an auction for a Kollmorgan 4x Bear Cub, and as all the parts this one is built with are from the 1952 overhaul (and in excellent condition) what I am planning on at this point is to get one of the Tarheel Ordnance repro MC1 mounts and finish it up as an MC 1952, as built on a WWII original M1C receiver (which would have been correct for an MC 1952, as I understand it) and since there is likely no way I can find (or afford) an original Marine Corps Sith-Kollmorgan 4X MC1 scope, the civilian Bear Cub will have to suffice for now. Unless I can find some way to tie in this receiver by s/n to the Marine Corps' MC 1952 program which is doubtful, this is the best I can do for now. I had considered going all the way back to the original WWII configuration, but the heel marking "SA 1952" kind of threw a monkey in that wrench. Plus, I would have to damn near strip it back to the receiver and try to hunt down the original correct parts all the way through. Maybe later on, IF I should happen to stumble over the original numbered mount and rail (unless this unmarked rail IS an original, which I am questioning) then I suppose the "SA 1952" marking *could* be scrubbed and the receiver refinished/restored. It IS an original M1C receiver according to the letter from Dave McClain that came with the rifle, and the s/n dates it to around November/December 1944 so that *should* make it one of the first 11 which were all that were supposedly delivered by the end of 1944. If I leave it AS IS and go with the Springfield Armory overhaul (which I have heard may or may not have been in part done for the Marine Corps as well as the US Army), do you know of any way to identify it as being one that went through the Marine Corps program (either as an eventual MC 1952, or as one they built and it failed to meet their standards so they pulled the rail, plugged the holes, and sent it off as a now-standard Garand with a very interesting past?

These things are so rare that there just does not seem to be a good source of information on them, to figure out exactly what I have as far as drawing numbers, barrel number, etc. I know it was an original M1C Army rifle during WWII, but *IF* it also has history as a Marine Corps rifle as well, I don't want to do anything that would mess that aspect of it up either in the process of trying to restore it.

I have a Greek return M1C. I contacted Griffin and Howe and purchased their newer scope mount which gives more clearance for a scope. Then I picked up a repro M84 and they make an excellent combination.
You know, if you have a C, you need a D too.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0721_zpscalbeasd.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0721_zpscalbeasd.jpg.html)

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0722_zpsefwy3une.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0722_zpsefwy3une.jpg.html)

Semper Fi
Art

ArtBanks
April 17, 2017, 04:44
I had a Tarheel Ord mount on my C. I thought it was pretty crude. That is how I ended up contacting Griffin and Howe for a better unit. I just ran down into the shop and still have the Tarheel if you are interested send me a PM.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0911_zpszkmdbpes.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0911_zpszkmdbpes.jpg.html)

Art

PvtJoker
April 17, 2017, 14:36
I had a Tarheel Ord mount on my C. I thought it was pretty crude. That is how I ended up contacting Griffin and Howe for a better unit. I just ran down into the shop and still have the Tarheel if you are interested send me a PM.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0911_zpszkmdbpes.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0911_zpszkmdbpes.jpg.html)

Art

That is what I need to go with my Kollmorgen Bear Cub, so yes I am definitely interested.

HD-Ghost
April 18, 2017, 13:11
Now all you need is a cone flash hider, and a cheek pad. PM sent.

yovinny
April 18, 2017, 19:52
Isent the kollmorgan a 1" scope and the m84 is 7/8" ?

Ive got a G&H qd mount with a garand receiver base, but i believe it has later commercial type rings....dont remember if 7/8 or 1"...
I'll dig it out ifor some pics if your interested...

PvtJoker
April 19, 2017, 00:17
Isent the kollmorgan a 1" scope and the m84 is 7/8" ?

Ive got a G&H qd mount with a garand receiver base, but i believe it has later commercial type rings....dont remember if 7/8 or 1"...
I'll dig it out ifor some pics if your interested...

Yes, I am. Please do.

PvtJoker
May 17, 2017, 13:27
OK; time for an update. With many thanks to Art, without whose help this would still be floundering, I now have my M1C Garand up and running as a MC1952 clone (albeit with a Kollmorgen Bear Cub instead of the original Marine Corps scope). Now to get some ammo and take her to the range.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170517_122335_resized_zpsi6ec9wu1.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170517_122402_resized_zpsxgvxvhpp.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170517_122348_resized_zps2umtceee.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170517_122412_resized_zpswbb3uwfo.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i78/JTravis1964/M1C%20Garand/20170517_122427_resized_zpsjvjxkxrs.jpg

tdb59
May 17, 2017, 13:55
Coolness !




.............

ArtBanks
May 17, 2017, 16:16
Looking good my friend.
You could use the funnel on the muzzle to load shot for turkey season No?

Art

PvtJoker
May 17, 2017, 19:34
Looking good my friend.
You could use the funnel on the muzzle to load shot for turkey season No?

Art

That's the Korean War Anti-Chinese-bugle device! :biggrin: This one blows a much louder tune. First one of them that stands up and gets ready to blow his bugle to sound the charge, you shoot him first. Then hopefully, the others will hesitate because they are waiting to hear the bugler blow. Then shoot anyone who tries to pick it up after he falls. From what my dad used to tell me as a kid, that was one of the most awful sounds in North Korea was that damn Chinese bugle, because when you heard it play, you knew the human wave attack was about to follow.

So shoot the bugler. Or better yet; shoot the BUGLE. ;)