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paulo
April 01, 2017, 09:56
Thoughts on the Savage 12 LP varmint in 308?
Looking to use it for some 600 yard sniper matches.
TIA

VALMET
April 01, 2017, 10:50
I can't speak for that mod exactly but I have a Mod 12 LRPV in 22-250 and it is unbelievably accurate. In my experience Savage makes arguably the most accurate out-of-the-box rifles you can get these days as their barrels are very high-quality.

paulo
April 01, 2017, 11:00
I have heard the same things regarding their accuracy. I like the fact that it has a 26 inch tube with a 1 in 10 twist and a detachable magazine. Lot to like about the rifle. The price ain't over the top either.

CG&L
April 01, 2017, 11:13
The Savage 12 LP varmint in 308 isn't a bad choice but it really depends on what the rules are and how deep in competition you plan on getting into it

So much depends on the rules. For example; feeding from a box magazine makes all the difference. At Palo Alto you shoot 3x20rd strings at 600yds. Competitors loading from 10rd box magazines are able to concentrate on shooting instead of mag changes

There are also weight rules. You need to find out what the weight limits are. There may not be any weight rules in what you're doing

Wind is another big factor. If there's much of it, you're better off looking at a high BC bullet.

The Ruger in 6.5 CM is a good entry level rifle because of the rules and the BC of longer bullets

The scope will make a big diffeence as well
NightForce makes an affordable, entry level scope for PRS matches

You can compete with anything. Getting into the top ten is tough

paulo
April 01, 2017, 11:30
I'm shooting the NRA vintage sniper match's. Out of competion of course. Not aware of any weight restrictions. I'm sticking with 308 because it is available off the shelf and is a NATO standard.
Running an AR10 in 308 right now and have no problem running with the RPR in 6.5 crowd. Just looking for a good bolt gun that won't cost an arm and leg. I firmly believe you don't need to spend loads of money to get out to a 1,000 yards. As far a optics go I'm looking at Leupold with a fine plex. Don't care for all the fancy reticals. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

CG&L
April 01, 2017, 13:12
You stated more about your personal objectives and beliefs than anything else. The Savage will be a good match, the Leupold would be a good match. It would probably be a mistake to go any other direction than what you're already considering
You will be well served by a Savage/Leupold combination


There's a different crowd at Palo Alto, specific rules and I have different reasons for competing and a different objective . The Savage, 308 or Leupold would not be good choices

paulo
April 01, 2017, 13:51
CG&L

I have no plans on competing on a national level, in fact just locally here in SE WI. Had a look at the Palo Alto club and match's, well out of my league. If money were no object that's a different deal. Then a AI or TRG with a NightForce would be in the cards. I do understand that playing with the big boys takes good equipment and lots of trigger time. I may be able to get the gear but time on the rifle is hard to come by.

STG_58_guy
April 04, 2017, 20:26
I might own a Savage Model 12 BVSS in 22-250 and two Model 10 FCPs in .308. All have accutriggers and modest optics. All will shoot <1/2 MOA in favorable conditions. I don't know how I could possibly improve on that. 1/2 MOA is the limit of my ability.

I suspect that at 100 yards in the hands of of a gifted shooter and the right ammo all three would just put bullets through the same hole over and over again.

It took a while to find the right round for each. The 22-250 likes an old hand load recipe my buddy loads for me. One Model 10 likes factory Hornady 168gr A-Max. The other model 10 might like 168gr HPBT Matchkings better than the A-Max but it's hard to tell.

I don't think you can go wrong with Savage Model 10s or 12s.

CG&L
April 04, 2017, 20:49
No one can claim 1/2 MOA using factory ammo with any rifle, especially the 308
Specs are all over the place for factory 308 chambers and factory ammo

If you see any pictures of any Savage rifles in competition, look just forward of the receiver. The barrel will butt right up to the recoil lug. That's a dead give-away of a custom barrel

Not knocking the accuracy of an off-the-shelf Savage, it's good but not that good. Handloading can take care of the chamber spec problem but it can't fix an out of line chamber. Something that's normal in a factory barrel

STG_58_guy
April 05, 2017, 16:25
No one can claim 1/2 MOA using factory ammo with any rifle, especially the 308
Specs are all over the place for factory 308 chambers and factory ammo

If you see any pictures of any Savage rifles in competition, look just forward of the receiver. The barrel will butt right up to the recoil lug. That's a dead give-away of a custom barrel

Not knocking the accuracy of an off-the-shelf Savage, it's good but not that good. Handloading can take care of the chamber spec problem but it can't fix an out of line chamber. Something that's normal in a factory barrel

Nine consecutive shots with 10 FCP, Hornady 168gr A-Max at 100 yards, with Burris 14X(?). Those are 1/2 inch grids. One of them is 1/8 inch outside a 1/2 inch circle c-c if you overlay the dots. So I make that claim.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YRHW1Xr3TZPCqrjBg4fD-H0xenKcHrqVvtnmwXKkXBde8zYjZ5Y8G4StIpMYEJ-M8tNsbTB44oWKJgUEafOxnXfyMaDx4neDmcth6hGK6fX3Xvtup fNvddwfL-toSKcOXGSfGmLKScy0Jb2C0DGHdMK2inyle55B2VYR5AVj6aUr PiNr3uvr1wA_aUKY6Dq-TXhmCIZdFWaI_Nylp6AKK7ZuRsh5etbxszt05b7J4cawXZn6A0 b6i93qGE9gW9wAizdpcmCk8Fzi2YG8TFfPjsRbWegzMjCeuc5C 9sCkg80aq4RmRCLr7mn8kUbjnfBehnf2LP2MdvshbfgC_7T8vg cBOTU2ztt-8NziSWpB1JHRN7X4euVu_YJer-fPtWcxHwJbd7NYUgverqYw7KlT03k-dfQit1o93SCx_FUPMnCKldzV6_yS9j-zOu4bGxOGRc_7AZG37PRETf4P0f_Q3yExJd-hTN6F24d9oD05Z3yJtNnktvLi6eWMOU3WOVxmsBEH2pJh2GB1g JOZ9_YJW9sgxbdYquNV3WllyMW6534pwky_A_mMjz_-kvu_ecANaJ7APinLWahXyvVnxxHLnW0EYv-n0JYemNOXXvt8pt7e3MGMdQw=w813-h609-no

I think these are the 9 shots mapped out using a spreadsheet and digital calipers. It might be a different 9 shot target from the same rifle.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Kf8MDWOYgvOWiMkevWmYImB5bfbHGBjbMcnpXu1gIFiT3IbMzd BCyn5SgLnzxZ2rgWKMb_ij_jkXOYKPwTeDyaqsbQE5SVAcx1Tg t1Y1pJng2ipbfksnwbJoobR65nrDlA-5VYcSlpYoWTN7fOrUB6Z7dXSlf6pEzjkmRLq-0ceJAByNuBsMDNRx3bVvBbasZfruv5L3GlZjUgXwqrfhuQW6lD kYC0Q_thAkxsKVfe3GLjYWw4lconG_NNgndva8prqfN-tO8uMPXk8MYm9NceMfPLzERI8DShXILnaFVCZ16cIhrK6rI5f8 g_Z6Q8tG7z9tnQSx1S9KsFR4VGnbIghICa1D6MWExZy2z_MPVP wy2jRFjwYY8hOHtSX5Msbcxw8R0x6KwUav1-byS6-Qi1-1QLlSg8XykkMRk1brhAC73YF7mHnHFvJk-GuIuz8efVHdSAYISptotgM7nBGWXH1XNpR32-cfjy6BGmBwP2AmvPSMOPm5KOVU1SlfF7sMdop9quiA9oLsDWaI tZ6f-uBajM9einjR6aGzaJCFay9c9bOmhQzRF431mJ-gdWuJ9hfFzbedysOLPAI3--TB9Bz1Q_NSBleO9YFCcAxUFOmzTQKm5erF=w394-h359-no

Edit:That graphic above represents where the 9 rounds would have hit had they been shot at the same dot. The circles are .3 in diameter, just like a .308 round makes. Two of the shots are in the same hole, hence only 8 circles. Pretty much one ragged hole with a flyer.

CG&L
April 05, 2017, 20:31
I've spent too much time at the range and build too many rifles. Lots of stories, never seen much in real life. If you like stories, go for it.

Even in a custom rifle built by a good gunsmith, ammo has to be loaded to match the chamber, neck and leade. The biggest problem is getting the chamber lined up with the bore when the barrel is being chambered. Difficult to do for a good gunsmith, rare for it to happen in a factory barrel.

A lot of accuracy comes from the neck being cut tight. In a factory rifle, this isn't really possible. They have to be cut to take any ammo neck size. The 308 probably has the widest specs for neck sizes

STG_58_guy
April 05, 2017, 21:50
I think a lot of people spend $10k on a rifle and optics when they can get the same functionality for $1100. But maybe I've just been lucky.

CG&L
April 06, 2017, 04:13
You don't to spend 10K
Reloading is important. The results may be more than adequate for you purposes

If you want to stretch the rifle/optics/shooter to the limits, a good barrel is a must. With barrels costing from 300 to 400 and getting it threaded will add another 200, the total will be around $600

It all depends on what you need the rifle to do. Some people go all out for competition.

STG_58_guy
April 06, 2017, 14:56
You don't to spend 10K
Reloading is important. The results may be more than adequate for you purposes

If you want to stretch the rifle/optics/shooter to the limits, a good barrel is a must. With barrels costing from 300 to 400 and getting it threaded will add another 200, the total will be around $600

It all depends on what you need the rifle to do. Some people go all out for competition.


I tried a bunch of hand loads on that 10 FCP. But then I ran a box of Hornady A-Max through it and was pleasantly surprised. So I went back to the crazy Walmart in Little Falls MN and bought them out, all one lot. I think they had 500 rounds. It might have been more. I can't remember now. I still have a few hundred.

The guy who did the ammo at the Walmart is gone now and their ammo selection is back to normal suck. They still have 20+ boxes of some odd stuff. 444 Marlin maybe. 45-70? They used to have a whole wall stacked deep of everything.

Anyway, haven't found a handload yet that outperforms the A-Max in that rifle.

Fn/form
April 07, 2017, 12:17
I think a lot of people spend $10k on a rifle and optics when they can get the same functionality for $1100. But maybe I've just been lucky.

That's painting with a very broad brush. If you're talking plain accuracy in fair weather and limited use, then yes, there are some great values out there that fit the bill for a lot less.

Prioritizing any one or more of ultimate light weight, weather and environment extremes, ergonomics, reliability, resolution, etc. will cost you.

I've been a Savage fan for a long time. Hate the crappy extractor system, better have spares and proactively replace them if you're going to play timed games.

I'd recommend the Tikka CTR series for plug n play upgrade options.

STG_58_guy
April 08, 2017, 20:40
Inspired by this thread, I took the 10 out today and went through 30 rounds of the 168gr A-Max at 300 yards. It was gusty to 20 mph from 4 o'clock with a bad mirage, but I still got half the rounds inside a 2 x 2 inch square. I had one or two outside the 6 x 6 square. Not bad for having to dope 1 - 4 inches right depending on the breeze.

A bit outside the 1/2 MOA regime obviously.