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Tat2
March 31, 2017, 01:11
Hey all,

I have every battle rifle except a G3 and it's about time to pull the trigger....
I have 50 mags I got for .99 cents each so I need a rifle. Atlantic lists the PTR 91 FR as having a heavy barrel? Is it worth it? How much more heavy is it? Is it really more accurate? Will it accept the mil handguards to make it look more G3 like?

Or should I just get the A3s model with the standard barrel and black furniture?

Thanks for the advise

T

Tuhlmann
March 31, 2017, 11:05
The G3/HK91 rifles are heavy and blocky already, so I would be hesitant to add weight to the barrel. The original barrel profiles have a good reputation for accuracy, so I'm not sure what a heavy barrel would add that would be noticeable besides more heft.

If I were buying one, I'd also skip the aluminum forend for the same reason, weight. Look at the A3S if you like the rail and 5/8x24 muzzle. If you want a more "purist" approach look at the GI Classic.


ETA: I have a VG-VVG Greek EBO SAR-3 (origninal pre-ban import, no overstamp) that I may be willing to part with if you are interested in a true HK licensed example. Black furniture, wide forend, and optional A3 stock. PM me if interested.

Tat2
March 31, 2017, 13:35
Thanks for the advise. I pm'ed you too

T

michael_g927
March 31, 2017, 23:49
You still trying to get someone to give you a couple grand for that Springfield?

hkshooter
April 01, 2017, 06:57
You still trying to get someone to give you a couple grand for that Springfield?

Last couple I saw sell on GB went close. One overstamp and an SAR3. A few weeks ago an overstamp even sold BIN for $1950. That's stupid when an HK can be had used for that or a couple hundred more.

michael_g927
April 01, 2017, 08:32
Last one i saw was in dallas for $1250. Lets look at this a moment. A Belguim FAL sells for $2500-3000. A licensed Imbel fal will sell for $1300. So when a real HK91 sells for around $2000, why would a licensed copy sell for as much or more?
Even MAC on youtube bought not only a non overstamp, but G3 matked EBO *NEW IN THE BOX WITH TRIGGER TAG STILL ON IT!!!!!) for a premium price of $1600.
This guy has triwd to push this rifle off on everyone that mentions anything about an SAR3/8. But at a third more than real market value, i understand why he still owns it.
Im off to the Wanbamaker show. I always see real HK91s there under $2000.

hansellhd
April 01, 2017, 12:22
Last one i saw was in dallas for $1250. Lets look at this a moment. A Belguim FAL sells for $2500-3000. A licensed Imbel fal will sell for $1300. So when a real HK91 sells for around $2000, why would a licensed copy sell for as much or more?
Even MAC on youtube bought not only a non overstamp, but G3 matked EBO *NEW IN THE BOX WITH TRIGGER TAG STILL ON IT!!!!!) for a premium price of $1600.
This guy has triwd to push this rifle off on everyone that mentions anything about an SAR3/8. But at a third more than real market value, i understand why he still owns it.
Im off to the Wanbamaker show. I always see real HK91s there under $2000.

I don't know what part of the USA you live in but if you "always see" HK91's under 2K I would get some. The only HK91's I see for under 2K are beat up.
95% of the nice ones (VG-EX) are well over 2K.

Can someone explain the difference between a SAR3 and a SAR3/8 overstamp? I have the overstamp and I don't see any difference at all between that and my HK91.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3845_zpstlm6spak.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3845_zpstlm6spak.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3861_zpssrthpc7h.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3861_zpssrthpc7h.jpg.html)

michael_g927
April 01, 2017, 13:57
Ok just got back from the show. I saw the very same HK91s on the very same tables as when the show was here in November. Interestingly, the prices are now about $800 higher than six months ago.
Sadly, those guns will be going home AGAIN, with their owners. Show attendance today was stronger than last one. Just really seems like the HK rifles have absolutely no following. I did see maybe 6 FALS, even an FNH! But like the HKs, they are poorly displayed and look like oddities sprinkled around the show.
So they didnt sell at 2k or 3k. Very difficult to see their market value when they dont sell at all

hkshooter
April 01, 2017, 14:25
I don't know what part of the USA you live in but if you "always see" HK91's under 2K I would get some. The only HK91's I see for under 2K are beat up.
95% of the nice ones (VG-EX) are well over 2K.

Can someone explain the difference between a SAR3 and a SAR3/8 overstamp? I have the overstamp and I don't see any difference at all between that and my HK91.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3845_zpstlm6spak.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3845_zpstlm6spak.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3861_zpssrthpc7h.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3861_zpssrthpc7h.jpg.html)

An over stamp is an original SAR3 that got caught between the port and the distributors when the ban was passed. To skirt the ban that named the rifle (and many others) they simply changed the name by turning the three into an eight. For all practical purposes the SAR3 is identical in all ways to the HK91 but for name.
Later, over stamps and then original SAR8 models had features changed, added, and deleted in an attempt to comply with the ever changing interpretation of the ban. Springfield finally gave up and built the rifle on US made receivers. That turned into a whole other FUBAR of a story that ended with Springfield dumping the rifle.

hansellhd
April 01, 2017, 15:42
An over stamp is an original SAR3 that got caught between the port and the distributors when the ban was passed. To skirt the ban that named the rifle (and many others) they simply changed the name by turning the three into an eight. For all practical purposes the SAR3 is identical in all ways to the HK91 but for name.
Later, over stamps and then original SAR8 models had features changed, added, and deleted in an attempt to comply with the ever changing interpretation of the ban. Springfield finally gave up and built the rifle on US made receivers. That turned into a whole other FUBAR of a story that ended with Springfield dumping the rifle.

Thanks HKShooter, best simplest explanation. :)

hansellhd
April 01, 2017, 15:57
Ok just got back from the show. I saw the very same HK91s on the very same tables as when the show was here in November. Interestingly, the prices are now about $800 higher than six months ago.
Sadly, those guns will be going home AGAIN, with their owners. Show attendance today was stronger than last one. Just really seems like the HK rifles have absolutely no following. I did see maybe 6 FALS, even an FNH! But like the HKs, they are poorly displayed and look like oddities sprinkled around the show.
So they didnt sell at 2k or 3k. Very difficult to see their market value when they dont sell at all

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/614620609

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/614569156

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610719970

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/614857814

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/619314913

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625807389

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/610492179

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/621901201

Just so you know this is what HK91's sell for on GB. Saying HK rifles have "absolutely no following" is ridiculous.

Tuhlmann
April 01, 2017, 17:48
You still trying to get someone to give you a couple grand for that Springfield?

Not trying to "get" anyone to do anything. The SAR-3 is a unique niche gun that is desireable to some HK type collectors. Not a rifle for someone looking for for a clone shooter. I don't need to sell the SAR-3, but wouldn't be opposed to passing it along to somebody else that is looking to round out a collection. Been down the HK road and have tired of it. Nothing more, nothing less. I offered to the OP in case he was looking for something more unique than a HK clone, and a SAR-3 (when one can be found) still usually brings 10-15% less than a VG-EX condition HK91, so it might be within his reach. Your glaring ignorance on the subject has zero affect on the value any rifle. That you wish them to be offered for less won't make it so.

In full disclosure michael_g927 was offered the same rifle in November 2016 but for several hundred dollars more than the OP, mostly for being a douche. I post this response for the same reason.

Now michael_g927, instead of trolling me on this guy's thread why don't you offer something of value to his original question. Otherwise, run on along to THR where you belong.

Tat2
April 01, 2017, 18:44
An over stamp is an original SAR3 that got caught between the port and the distributors when the ban was passed. To skirt the ban that named the rifle (and many others) they simply changed the name by turning the three into an eight. For all practical purposes the SAR3 is identical in all ways to the HK91 but for name.
Later, over stamps and then original SAR8 models had features changed, added, and deleted in an attempt to comply with the ever changing interpretation of the ban. Springfield finally gave up and built the rifle on US made receivers. That turned into a whole other FUBAR of a story that ended with Springfield dumping the rifle.

Thank you also for the explanation. I actually got intrigued after watching the MAC video on the NIB SA rifle too. Plus I had the mags..... :]

I really just wanted a shooter, but I appreciate the purchase offer from Tuhlmann and told him so. Maybe the PTR will lead me down a rabbit hole to a real HK!

T

Tuhlmann
April 01, 2017, 19:00
Mac's video is an excellent summary of the rifle and the info is timeless. His values are reflective of the 2014 prices from when he published that video.

I think you'll be happy with the PTR. There are many HK snobs and PTR haters out there. PTR has had it's periods of poor QC at times, but I think the overwhelming majority of their current lineup are fine rifles. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase one. As much as it raises the hackles of the purists, I think the picatinny receiver rail is the tits, and think it makes a solid performing workhorse rifle more flexible and functional.

Post up what you decide on!

michael_g927
April 01, 2017, 23:57
Hey tuhlman hows this for glaring ignorance? Just last week on craigs list is your rifle for $1200. Dont believe me? Here is the guys number in case you wanna buy it. 214-471-7941.
So as we can see, its only YOU that is pushing your SAR looking for someone glaringly ignorant to give you an extra grand for it.
I mentioned the SAR rifle one time and you quickly sent a dozen pics of it. But i really hope you find your unicorn at the end of your rainbow!
As for the PTR, they were out there in the show for $850 - $1199. They were the new guns with paddle releases. Those will sell within 90 days.
I think they are excellent values for under a grand. But at $1200, you are in EBO territory.
I saw a guy with an early HK91 for $3200. It was pretty used up. He said he had it on his books for nearly 10 years and was in no hurry to sell it. Like you, he'll die with that gun!
Your just mad because i called you out on it

hkshooter
April 02, 2017, 02:54
Your just mad because i called you out on it

A phone number without a valid ad is useless, post a link to the CL ad.

Consider, a single or a handful of sale examples doesn't tell the market on an item. I can show you examples of much higher selling prices in higher numbers than you've claimed.
Besides, you've shown nothing more than spouted "I saw this here and that there!" So a single valid link to a sold item is enough to shoot a hole in your boat. You're talking out your ass and the stench is telling on you.

I notice that you completely ignored handsell's post above on HK sales, any reason for that?

Tuhlmann
April 02, 2017, 07:37
A Craigslist ad?!? LMAO....Did you stumble upon that while trolling the "Casual Encounters" pages? You are a real treasure.

Tuhlmann
April 02, 2017, 07:48
Your just mad because i called you out on it

*You're

michael_g927
April 02, 2017, 11:32
Haha. You guys are just silly. I did screenshot the ad but havnt a clue as to how to post it. Never the less. One could quote numerous asking prices as the norm (even though they NEVER sell). One thing i can tell you is, i bet that Dallas rifle sold already.
Could you guys imagine that if realestate appraisal worked like you want rifle values to work?
Seems to me the earliest you could unload your gun would be another 7.5 years. And thats a big maybe at that!
Good luck.

michael_g927
April 02, 2017, 11:42
Oh and one other thing. MAC bought his pristine gun at market value during the time that it was THE most valuable. EVER. A very far cry from where we are today? Yes. But not in the direction you insinuate.

Albatross52
April 02, 2017, 22:12
Save your money and buy a real HK. I picked up an HK91(99.95% LOOKS LIKE A SAFE QUEEN) on GB in February for $2850+50 shipping. Or you could have one built from a parts kit. I usually don't stick my hand in the fire twice, but I have bought 2 PTR's, and traded both for parts.

hansellhd
April 03, 2017, 12:59
Save your money and buy a real HK. I picked up an HK91(99.95% LOOKS LIKE A SAFE QUEEN) on GB in February for $2850+50 shipping. Or you could have one built from a parts kit. I usually don't stick my hand in the fire twice, but I have bought 2 PTR's, and traded both for parts.

Can you elaborate on the PTR's? I agree the HK is the higher quality rifle but I have three PTR Rifles that run just fine.

Tat2
April 04, 2017, 10:42
I would like to hear about any recent PTR-91 issues too?? Seems they had some issues in the past but the new offerings are working well. And for less than a $1000.

T

michael_g927
April 04, 2017, 15:05
Seems like any Anerican made European design gets poo pooed no matter if the modern rifle is made out of modern materials on modern cnc machinery.
What i want to see is how exactly the old rifle is superior to the modern production.You always hear regurgitated info from the "experts", yet PTR and DSA keep churning out rifles everyday, and for decades!
Show me proof that the originol is superior. Every single product goes thru growing pains. Even the originol rifles did. The snobs latch onto those rare incidences and push that those are the norm.
So if these domesticatedly produced rifles are junk, how is it they are still in business?

Tuhlmann
April 04, 2017, 17:18
Seems like any Anerican made European design gets poo pooed no matter if the modern rifle is made out of modern materials on modern cnc machinery.
What i want to see is how exactly the old rifle is superior to the modern production.You always hear regurgitated info from the "experts", yet PTR and DSA keep churning out rifles everyday, and for decades!
Show me proof that the originol is superior. Every single product goes thru growing pains. Even the originol rifles did. The snobs latch onto those rare incidences and push that those are the norm.
So if these domesticatedly produced rifles are junk, how is it they are still in business?

One reason is that people with your level of intelligence, spelling, and grammar skills keep purchasing them.

Another reason is they are the only market options for most. Very few folks will actually find their way to a builder's/enthusiast's forum like this....even though you somehow managed to fumble your way here. As a result, they will seldom aquire the knowledge and experience, if even vicariously, that guys that have intimate subject matter expertise earned with years of diverse experiences with a given firearm family. Guys like you see a clone rifle at a local gunshow and have no frame of reference to distinguish the finer details that separate it from its original. So they buy what's available, which is DSA, PTR, Century, etc. Just because they are available and sell enough stay in business doesn't make them a superior or even a comparable version of the original. It also doesn't mean that all clones are junk, either.

That said, most honest enthusiasts will admit that more than not the originals tend to be superior in most all aspects to their modern counterparts. Lots of reasons why, not the least being that modern arms made primarily for commercial recreation usually have material compromises made in favor of economy. Simply not the case with pre-ban military arms. Simple minds like yours have a hard time reconciling how modern materials and CNC manufacturing doesn't always equal better product. Consumer demand drives market principles. No matter how modern the process and tooling, the bottom line will always be the bottom line in civilian consumer arms. Cheap sells. Even for decades, because blowhard hacks like michael_g927 here aren't educated enough to know the differences.

So all the "snobs" that have usually spent considerable time and money learning, using, and aquiring their examples probably have the advantage of perspective. These examples are also in finite quantities, so they are valued accordingly. "Better" can always be relative, especially when it comes to cost. But there are some recognized absolutes when it comes to surplus arms and their pre-ban civilian counterparts. Guys will pay well for quality, especially when they've suffered from a "great deal & just as good" episode or two. Guys will also pay remarkably well for the history, collectability, and just sheer pleasure of ownership of a specific piece for a specific reason. No modern copy can deliver on these intangible qualities.

The fact that ol' michael-g927 here is too obtuse to recognize these truths and too cheap to acknowledge them is no surprise, but it sure doesn't prevent him from inserting his opinions.

ETA: I'm also interested in Albatross's PTR issues. It's been awhile since I've heard much negative from actual shooters...not "snobs" :wink:

michael_g927
April 04, 2017, 23:08
So you wrote ALL that. You relegated to 5th grade tactics and spent the majority of your post trying to insult me (flattering i must say). And yet in all your expertise, you still failed, or more likely avoided my question ( only because you dont know the answer). Prove to me these claims. Simple as that. Prove it or shut your suck.
And for clarity, the HK91 was never a military weapon. It was always made for and intended to be commercial for civilians. No different than the AR15s made by FN ARE NOT the same rifles made for military contract.
So if you cannot provide any real proof that the modern domestically produced rifle is inferior to those made 40 years ago, keep your expert opinions to yourself and stay in your lane.
You still mad that i called you out for trying to sell a $1200 rifle for over two grand?
Youll get over it sweat pea!

michael_g927
April 04, 2017, 23:14
Almost forgot to mention. Guys build kits because they are limited on options. If rifles could be brought in, there would be NO kit builds.
And about those kits.... militaries dont throw away good rifles. Its surplus for a reason.

gunplumber
April 05, 2017, 08:15
Now michael_g927, instead of trolling me on this guy's thread why don't you offer something of value to his original question. Otherwise, run on along to THR where you belong.

He can't. All he does is troll his better, yapping at their heels like retarded Pekinese. He has nothing to contribute, and when he tries, it's so full of FAIL as to make even video gamers expert in comparison.

It's actually getting boring smacking him around.

machinegunner
April 05, 2017, 08:53
And for clarity, the HK91 was never a military weapon. It was always made for and intended to be commercial for civilians. No different than the AR15s made by FN ARE NOT the same rifles made for military contract.
WTF? hk 91 never a "military weapon"? Then have over 50 countries around the world used them in their military?

AR15 is to m16

as

ptr91 is to hk91

michael_g927
April 05, 2017, 09:09
You know i saw a guy at the Wannamaker show that looked like his chromosome count was off. He reminded me of you. Second time i saw him i noticed he had a dealer button. So i looked for an arazona booth. I guess you keep it camouflaged just like your shot show booth?
So T. Mark. You still havnt answered my questions from the Best AK thread and the DSA barrel thread. Also, where in your "25 years, 60 hours a week, i build rifles" " i have built many thousands of rifles", where did you have time to build fals, hks,and aks in the fourteen years you claim of military service? Dude, we all know your a liar. You are your biggest fan.
So anyone who uses the least bit of logic and asks questions (not popular with your opinions), is a troll?
Cmon. Im still waiting to see proof of these claims of superiority of both the rifles and yourself as well.
You know its one thing to lie about your credentials to trick others into giving you money. Its another thing all together to lie about things like law enforcement, and MILITARY status.
Its called STOLEN VALOR. I think many here will agree, its dispicable. As a matter of fact it is also a felony.
So Marky, answer the questions or forever remain an irrelevant liar.

michael_g927
April 05, 2017, 09:11
Machinegunner, the HK 91 is NOT an HK G3, any more than an AR15 is an M16. Glad to have helped you out with that.

gunplumber
April 05, 2017, 09:32
You know i saw a guy at the Wannamaker show that looked like his chromosome count was off. He reminded me of you. Second time i saw him i noticed he had a dealer button. So i looked for an arazona booth. I guess you keep it camouflaged just like your shot show booth?
So T. Mark. You still havnt answered my questions from the Best AK thread and the DSA barrel thread. Also, where in your "25 years, 60 hours a week, i build rifles" " i have built many thousands of rifles", where did you have time to build fals, hks,and aks in the fourteen years you claim of military service? Dude, we all know your a liar. You are your biggest fan.
So anyone who uses the least bit of logic and asks questions (not popular with your opinions), is a troll?
Cmon. Im still waiting to see proof of these claims of superiority of both the rifles and yourself as well.
You know its one thing to lie about your credentials to trick others into giving you money. Its another thing all together to lie about things like law enforcement, and MILITARY status.
Its called STOLEN VALOR. I think many here will agree, its dispicable. As a matter of fact it is also a felony.
So Marky, answer the questions or forever remain an irrelevant liar.

I see your knowledge of the law is as poor as your academic education . . . and everything else for that matter. Dweeb, this is really getting boring.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3d/b1/d0/3db1d009d2de38ee1d773373e4dc355e.jpg

hkshooter
April 05, 2017, 11:24
Gentlemen, the guy is a remarkable troll and will argue a brown table is black simply for the fun of it. Maybe he's really that stupid, maybe he's not. What's for certain is his obstinacy for denying fact and reason. Feeding the troll will only make him want to stay around longer so let's leave him be to wallow in whatever dark corner of his empty mind he lives in and not perpetuate trying to reason with a moron.
Here, let me show you how easy it is.

lew
April 05, 2017, 12:01
I've had my PTR GI for over a year and it's been nothing but reliable with GGG Lithuanian and PMC ammo. The G3's a strange and quirky rifle, but the PTR's a hoot to shoot. I got mine directly from PTR for $899 shipped since Atlantic didn't stock the GI model at the time.

Albatross52
April 05, 2017, 12:04
I apologize for the late reply,
To defend myself, and my opinion of PTR, just call and ask an HK gunsmith their opinion of the Modern PTR rifles. Go the the hkpro forum and research problems with PTR weaponry. When JLD/PTR started they built some good stuff from imported parts kits. THEN they decided, as most corporate america does, that they could build parts such as trunnions, hammers, barrels,carriers, etc. in house and save money,= making them more profitable and less reliable. I bought my son a PTR 91 classic,Connecticut made ,that he still owns, and has been reliable to shoot regularly.
However, last year I purchased a PTR 91FR January 2016, that had an out of spec bolt, weld slag(actually over penetration) at the cocking tube to receiver weld, that had to be ground out. It actually chewed up the bolt carrier. I replaced the whole BCG with an FMP from RTG to make it cycle and threw it in my safe. In January of this year I purchased A PTR K3P from Atlantic, that NEVER cycled for 200 rnds. Called PTR customer service for 4 days with no answer, 6 emails later I git a call from a smart ass talking down to me like I was an idiot that never held a firearm before, telling me to clean the weapon and keep cycling it till it broke in, after an additional 200 rnds, it cycled twice. Seeking help on the hkpro forum and talking to HK smiths, I replaced the BCG with all German parts from my invetory. Never got the bolt gap above .011. I ended up trading both PTRs for 3 FMP parts kits. The man I traded had to have a new barrel and trunnion replaced due to improper flutes in the barrel and found a cracked trunnion.
It is a very bad feeling you get when you shell out over a grand for a weapon only to get it home and it not function, or worse, dump a couple hundred bucks in ammo through it, with the same results.
As for them post on the G3/FAL not being the finest assault rifles made, just do a wiki search, you will find that they served over half of worlds military as front line battle weapons.
I have several HK weapons that are the pinnacle of German engineering, and cycle every time. I also have built my own G3's and G3K's from parts kits, with the help of a retired Hk gunsmith, built from German parts kits that share the same reliability.

Albatross52
April 05, 2017, 12:13
By the way, This is the wide handguard that cam on my K3P. Looks like it was sprayed with truck bed-liner or under-coating. Did not expect this either on a $1200 firearm. http://i.imgur.com/erfYLGLl.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/JNjb55Yl.jpg

michael_g927
April 05, 2017, 13:41
So instead of answering the questions, you would continue to just attack the gut putting umyou on the spot with the questions. WOW.
So you guys defend your "opinions" with "just ask an HK smith"?.
Thats like asking black folks about the klan. How about we ask those who dont have any livelyhood at stake. Maybe ask the thousands of PTR owners who have fine rifles that are reliable etc?
In the end what we do know is t mark has failed to answer a single dact based question directed towards him. This only leaves us to deduce that he is a complete fraud and an imposter of an honarable American fighting man.
THAT folks is a true deplorable!
Again, if you have nothing positive and factual to add to the discussion, keep your suck shut and let the men talk.

gunplumber
April 05, 2017, 15:07
So instead of answering the questions, you would continue to just attack the gut putting umyou on the spot with the questions. WOW.

You have yet to post pictures of your 5 Lamborghinis. I have no interest in playing your straw-man games. You are not "putting me on the spot", my bitch-slapping you is just an autonomic response - like slapping any other buzzing insect. You almost have the contempt and derision you deserve - it's just nobody takes you seriously enough to get you more than the occasional backhand across the mouth.


I'm a tantruming 5 year with nothing positive and factual to add to the discussion, so I will keep my suck shut and let the men talk.

Good idea, I doubt you can do it.

Albatross52
April 05, 2017, 15:52
So instead of answering the questions, you would continue to just attack the gut putting umyou on the spot with the questions. WOW.
So you guys defend your "opinions" with "just ask an HK smith"?.
Thats like asking black folks about the klan. How about we ask those who dont have any livelyhood at stake. Maybe ask the thousands of PTR owners who have fine rifles that are reliable etc?
In the end what we do know is t mark has failed to answer a single dact based question directed towards him. This only leaves us to deduce that he is a complete fraud and an imposter of an honarable American fighting man.
THAT folks is a true deplorable!
Again, if you have nothing positive and factual to add to the discussion, keep your suck shut and let the men talk.
Let the Men talk you say. You sound more like one of the punks that run PTR. I wish you could say this to me eye to eye. I AM A REAL MAN. HOW LONG WOULD YOU HAVE LASTED WITH US!!!! http://i.imgur.com/coI8b4yl.jpg

Albatross52
April 05, 2017, 15:58
So instead of answering the questions, you would continue to just attack the gut putting umyou on the spot with the questions. WOW.
So you guys defend your "opinions" with "just ask an HK smith"?.
Thats like asking black folks about the klan. How about we ask those who dont have any livelyhood at stake. Maybe ask the thousands of PTR owners who have fine rifles that are reliable etc?
In the end what we do know is t mark has failed to answer a single dact based question directed towards him. This only leaves us to deduce that he is a complete fraud and an imposter of an honarable American fighting man.
THAT folks is a true deplorable!
Again, if you have nothing positive and factual to add to the discussion, keep your suck shut and let the men talk.

We had an acronym for guys like you that we used, it is P.A.B., in the case you read on the level you spell, try this PUNK *** BITCH.

gunplumber
April 05, 2017, 17:33
HOW LONG WOULD YOU HAVE LASTED WITH US!!!!

You mean before the Crashawk burned in?

Well, I'm sure stuff has been fixed since the late 80s (pre-L model), but there was a problem with the early SOAR birds having their electronics frazzled by radar interference. Still preferred fast-roping and parachuting out of Hueys, so there was a skid to step off from.

Did sort-of-crash (high speed unplanned landing?) in one once at FHL, but as I had jumped out right before the pilot had a brown-out (flying NODS in high dust) and let the rotor contact the ground, I didn't get hurt. Can it be a crash if it's only 6' off the ground?

Of course, I just made that up, as part of my stolen valor collection.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/army/197-florida-23.jpg

Albatross52
April 05, 2017, 19:09
Thats a great photo, looks like Ft.Polk. When I retired in 08 we were still using upgraded L and M models. I have seen pilots pull off some amazing crap in those skeeters, Me, I was just glad to get the hell out..
Travis

gunplumber
April 05, 2017, 19:24
Thats a great photo, looks like Ft.Polk. When I retired in 08 we were still using upgraded L and M models. I have seen pilots pull off some amazing crap in those skeeters, Me, I was just glad to get the hell out..
Travis

That was '87 in Florida. Was aggressing against the 101. Hid in the swamps for several days 'till they thought they were safe, then came blasting out and took out all those on that runway and another side runway with 4 M2 .50s. Their perimeter security was non-existent. And I don't know if the Cobras FLIR sucked, or if they couldn't look straight down through the tall trees. But they never found us.

Why they lined them all up so nicely for us, I don't know.

Albatross52
April 05, 2017, 21:32
10th MD?

hansellhd
April 05, 2017, 22:51
I apologize for the late reply,
To defend myself, and my opinion of PTR, just call and ask an HK gunsmith their opinion of the Modern PTR rifles. Go the the hkpro forum and research problems with PTR weaponry. When JLD/PTR started they built some good stuff from imported parts kits. THEN they decided, as most corporate america does, that they could build parts such as trunnions, hammers, barrels,carriers, etc. in house and save money,= making them more profitable and less reliable. I bought my son a PTR 91 classic,Connecticut made ,that he still owns, and has been reliable to shoot regularly.
However, last year I purchased a PTR 91FR January 2016, that had an out of spec bolt, weld slag(actually over penetration) at the cocking tube to receiver weld, that had to be ground out. It actually chewed up the bolt carrier. I replaced the whole BCG with an FMP from RTG to make it cycle and threw it in my safe. In January of this year I purchased A PTR K3P from Atlantic, that NEVER cycled for 200 rnds. Called PTR customer service for 4 days with no answer, 6 emails later I git a call from a smart ass talking down to me like I was an idiot that never held a firearm before, telling me to clean the weapon and keep cycling it till it broke in, after an additional 200 rnds, it cycled twice. Seeking help on the hkpro forum and talking to HK smiths, I replaced the BCG with all German parts from my invetory. Never got the bolt gap above .011. I ended up trading both PTRs for 3 FMP parts kits. The man I traded had to have a new barrel and trunnion replaced due to improper flutes in the barrel and found a cracked trunnion.
It is a very bad feeling you get when you shell out over a grand for a weapon only to get it home and it not function, or worse, dump a couple hundred bucks in ammo through it, with the same results.
As for them post on the G3/FAL not being the finest assault rifles made, just do a wiki search, you will find that they served over half of worlds military as front line battle weapons.
I have several HK weapons that are the pinnacle of German engineering, and cycle every time. I also have built my own G3's and G3K's from parts kits, with the help of a retired Hk gunsmith, built from German parts kits that share the same reliability.

Thanks for getting back, well that Sucks Big Time. Looks like after moving south PTR's QC has gone down hill. The three PTR rifles I have were purchased back in 2010/11 and 2013. Like I said before all are well built and cycle reliably. (PTR91GI/PTR32/PTR91K)

michael_g927
April 05, 2017, 23:50
So what is it? Have you been hard at work for 25 years 60 hours a week building thousands of guns (your words) or did you find the time to serve 14 years in any military? Either way, you are a liar.
Like i said, just answer my simple questions (which are all based on info and persauna YOU put out on the web about yourself).
If you would just admit you are a liar, we could just move on.

gunplumber
April 06, 2017, 08:43
So what is it? Have you been hard at work for 25 years 60 hours a week building thousands of guns (your words) or did you find the time to serve 14 years in any military? Either way, you are a liar.
Like i said, just answer my simple questions (which are all based on info and persauna YOU put out on the web about yourself).
If you would just admit you are a liar, we could just move on.

My goodness how you can be so retarded without Darwin stepping in is quite the miracle.

I served Active and Reserve from Jan 1986 to 2000 - I know you're stupid, but you should be able to count to 14. 11B and 54B. Enlisted under Reagan and got out under Clinton. Cold War, nothing heroic. Jump wings (US and Israeli), Ranger Tab, EIB, and a couple stupid automatic awards like the NDSM , nothing exciting. Some will wonder if the lack of a GCM is a plus or a minus.

(Act) A/3/75 INF ABN RGR
(Act) 197 INF BDE (MECH)
(Res) 163d ORD
(Res) C/3/12 SFG(A)
(Act) JFKSWCS
(Res) 1st MI
(Res) 40th Armor
(Res) 348th TRANS (Petroleum)

So we have an adulthood of 31 years. Somehow, I was able to, during that time, serve in the military, earn a BA in military history (CSUF) an MA in National Security Studies (CSUSB), raise a daughter to drama-free adulthood, and build a nationally recognized business. Not really newsworthy. Just a guy who works really hard, and has vision and ambition.

The real question is how you can be such a loser as to think anyone with accomplishment - even as mundane as mine - must be lying. Just because you are a loser with no ambition or ability, doesn't mean everyone else is too. I'm not all that great, you just really suck.

gunplumber
April 06, 2017, 08:56
10th MD?

I was actually assigned to 10th MD for 1 day. But they were moving that BN from Benning back to Drum and I only had a couple months left on my contract. Made no sense to PCS so went to the 197th INF till my time was up.

hkshooter
April 06, 2017, 10:56
My goodness how you can be so retarded without Darwin stepping in is quite the miracle.



He's looking for the perfect opportunity, trust me. It'll happen and likely be funny as hell.

michael_g927
April 06, 2017, 11:02
So its early in the day and i have noticed you have been hard at work on the internet. Yet more proof you hace not been working 60 hrs a week for 25 years to build thousands of rifles.
Now ifyou served during that time, thank you. But this only proces you lied about building thousand upon thousands of rifles. As i initially observed, you would have to be 100 years old to have done everythibg you claim.
So in the style of a liar who has been called out (on several topics) instead of answering the questions, you resort to 5th grade insults all the while avoiding the questions.
We all know you are a liar. And you are your own biggest fan.
I think it is funny that others have noted that the longer you leave these legit questions unanswered, the more you confirm wgat we are already thinking of you!
So go ahead and call me more names (at this point its played out) hang out with your delta males (they are the only ones tricked by you "alpha male" status)

gunplumber
April 06, 2017, 12:28
So its early in the day and i have noticed you have been hard at work on the internet. Yet more proof you hace not been working 60 hrs a week for 25 years to build thousands of rifles.

As I pointed out before, your math ability, is just another manifestation of your abject stupidity.

As I like my job, quite a bit, working 60 hours a week is easy. Typical week is 0515 to 1715, with an hour off mid-afternoon, for a bank/FedEx/Home Depot run. Normally while parts are curing in the oven, 'cause I'm efficient like that.

Last summer when I bought the EAI warehouse, I was working 12 hours a day, 7 days a week (and loving it). Now I've slowed down a bit, and try to take Sundays off to weed my garden and do house cleaning.

Maybe that's why I'm such a success and you can do nothing but yap at the heels of your betters - I work my ass off! Heck, even my GF works 40 hours at one job (with an hour each way commute, which thankfully, I don't have to deal with) and then 20 hours at her other job. In my day, this was called "normal" for successful people. Lazy people make unsuccessful business owners.

One thing you obviously have never learned, is when you find yourself in a deep hole, stop digging! My goodness but you are a phuquetard!!

wanneroo
April 06, 2017, 12:35
I would like to hear about any recent PTR-91 issues too?? Seems they had some issues in the past but the new offerings are working well. And for less than a $1000.

T

I haven't heard much recently but a few years ago when the company was pulling up stumps in CT and moving to SC, that seemed to cause some disruption.

My 2013 rifle had to go back twice to PTR and they fixed the issues. First was triple tree alignment of the front sight post, second was a cracked bolt head due to a batch of 2013 bolt heads that had improper heat treatment. The rifle is very accurate and runs like a train on time. I'd like to buy one of the new ones.

gunplumber
April 06, 2017, 12:36
Oh yeah, in that time I also was able to write an armorer manual and produce a DVD training program on the FAL, AK, HK, SIG, and BHP. I even had time to give free assistance to others here (where I am a founding member). I'm just awesome like that. Or I'm not awesome, I'm just passionate, dedicated, and work hard - which in a world of sloth and laziness, I guess makes me awesome in comparison.

https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/store/store-misc/store-misc.html

michael_g927
April 06, 2017, 13:03
And here you are again defending yourself with not one but two posts! You get started early too as Arizona is what, 2 or 2 hours behind the rest of the country!
Your post AGAIN did nothing to answer the simple questions i called B.S. on you with. All you could do is spout more unproven crap about your greatness.
I been on this board for years reading your "arrogant bastard" b.s.. So eventually someone had to challenge your fictitious ego.
In the end you are just like the multitude of guts that play with these toys. We al "plumb" on them. The only thing that seperates you from everyone else is you are an AWESOME srlf promoter. You know the masses dont know anybetter.
So if you dont mind everyone knowing you are a phony, i dont mind you not answering my questions. Hell, if someone disagreeing with you or throwing the b.s. flag on you qualifies as you calling them a troll, im fine with that. We can go our seperate ways happy.
Now get back to your porn or whatever you spend all this time on the internet doing.
We can clearly see it is NOT spent doing the things you claim you do.

gunplumber
April 06, 2017, 14:10
This is what I did this morning. Tedious, but discipline is one of the many manifestations of my awesomeness.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4402076#post4402076