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View Full Version : Conversion of a Winchester model 70 to accept FAL magazines


Guy-epic
March 25, 2017, 14:00
So I have had a winchester model 70 heavy varmint in .308 for as long as I can remember. It was my attempt to try and get into precision shooting at the time. It's been a great rifle for me that it seems to only have one thing I have wanted to change for many years now. I want detachable magazine, which due to my love for the FAL, and investment into magazines it seems to only make sense to convert it to accept these magazines. This would help me get closer to my goal of minimizing my go bag stuff, I am trying to get to a small amount of calibers, very few magazines, and multipurpose firearms. I like the idea of making the model 70 fit better into my plans. So please anyone that has the keys to make the dream come true please share.

CG&L
March 25, 2017, 14:50
You're going to have a tough time with the FAL mag conversion

The only detachable magazine bottom metal I know of is PT&G

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/winchester-detach-mag-bottom-metal-dbm/1402-winchester-m70-short-action-stealth-mod-70-fn-police-with-5-rnd-ae-mag.html
This bottom metal will only work with AI-426 magazines.

There may be some other makers out there but it's unlikely there's one for the FAL mag

Invictus77
March 25, 2017, 15:19
So I have had a winchester model 70 and want it to use FAL mags

I'm not sure of a correct answer, but I like the way you think and will follow this thread!

gunseller
March 27, 2017, 07:25
To have any chance I think you will have to start with a long action not a short action. There is not enough room with a short action to install the hardware to make it work. I could be wrong and if you have enough money sometimes anything can be done.
Steve

Guy-epic
March 27, 2017, 07:30
To have any chance I think you will have to start with a long action not a short action. There is not enough room with a short action to install the hardware to make it work. I could be wrong and if you have enough money sometimes anything can be done.
Steve


That sucks but I believe you are correct

yovinny
March 27, 2017, 08:51
How long can you remember ?
Cause Winchester took a page from the Savage play book and didnt even produce a 'short action' till the mid 80's or so..
Anything before that was all long action, pre-64 & post-64 push feed, with mag blocked to length needed for shorter cartridges.

CG&L
March 27, 2017, 11:15
Is there any way you can post a photo of your Winchester action out of the stock? And a photo of the bolt out of the action?
Winchester either made or imported an action that's non-Mauser based. They still called it a Model 70 but it wasn't

I don't think there was ever a after-market, detachable magazine made for the pre-64 action.
It would be nice if you could determine when your rifle was made

Guy-epic
March 27, 2017, 11:33
Is there any way you can post a photo of your Winchester action out of the stock? And a photo of the bolt out of the action?
Winchester either made or imported an action that's non-Mauser based. They still called it a Model 70 but it wasn't

I don't think there was ever a after-market, detachable magazine made for the pre-64 action.
It would be nice if you could determine when your rifle was made


It's a newer model as in the 90's but I will look into it. It has the varmit heavy barrel, basically the same thing police at the time used as a sniper rifle I have been told by my neighbor who uses the same thing for SWAT which he is leader on the local team. It's nice to shoot, I actually believe that my optics, and my ability are what keep me from shooting any better. More ability then anything.

Illurian00
March 27, 2017, 12:06
During the early NATO era the Brits converted SMLEs' to 7.62 Nato ;

http://modernfirearms.net/sniper/sniper-rifles/brit/enfield-l42a1-and-enforcer-e.html

Going back to WW1, didn't the Huns convert Mausers to 20 rnd. 'trench' magazines ?

The Mossbergberg MVP ; "MVP 7.62mm NATO bolt designs accept/feed from both standard AR-10 style (LR308/SR25) and M1A/M14 style magazines. (Patented MVP 7.62 Dual Push bolt design shown)."

I have an post '64 308 Win. The loading port w/ bolt fully retracted is just under 3". I'm thinking there would probably be some milling of the bottom of the receiver involved, among other things to accept FAL mags.

At any rate, I agree w/ your thinking.

Illurian00
March 27, 2017, 12:15
CG&L : "Is there any way you can post a photo of your Winchester action out of the stock? And a photo of the bolt out of the action?
Winchester either made or imported an action that's non-Mauser based. They still called it a Model 70 but it wasn't "

Never heard of an imported M70 action. Can you elaborate ? Perhaps w' the fundamental design changes like the push feed and the bolt guide rail, it might be argued that it really isn't a 'M70'. Perhaps the better marketing strategy would have been to call it the 'M71' ? No,,,Wait....

Essential difference between pre & post '64 action would be the claw to push feed (Sako type extractor).

Some irony in the fact that guys pay good money to convert the Rem M700 'clip' extractor to the Sako type extractor.

jdmcomp
March 27, 2017, 15:30
"Going back to WW1, didn't the Huns convert Mausers to 20 rnd. 'trench' magazines ?"

Yes, the did and so did the US army, both in the air service rifle and in standard 1903 but as I remember few were ever issued on either side.

CG&L
March 27, 2017, 17:28
Illurina00

I started a small custom gun shop. Started out building custom 1911s but most customers would rather go with a name like Wilson, Brown, etc.. than with an unknown builder

Starting to do more rifle work and threading barrels for brakes is the most requested thing at this time.
Last week I threaded 3 rifles for a customer. A Savage, a T/C bolt gun and a Winchester Model 70

To thread the Winchester, it had to be taken out of the stock and this gave me a good chance to look it over.
The receiver looked mostly like a Remington. Round with Remington style recoil lug. The lug was not integral to the action
The trigger looked really strange. It kind of looked like a Winchester style but was much more exaggerated. The receiver definitely said 'Winchester Model 70'

The customer got the wrong brakes of course and it was an ordeal to get the right ones. I should have taken pictures but was more interested in getting the job done right

There's no possible way I could be mistaken. I have a Post '64 and have done work to it over the years. I know what they look like.

Guy-epic
March 28, 2017, 07:34
Illurina00

I started a small custom gun shop. Started out building custom 1911s but most customers would rather go with a name like Wilson, Brown, etc.. than with an unknown builder

Starting to do more rifle work and threading barrels for brakes is the most requested thing at this time.
Last week I threaded 3 rifles for a customer. A Savage, a T/C bolt gun and a Winchester Model 70

To thread the Winchester, it had to be taken out of the stock and this gave me a good chance to look it over.
The receiver looked mostly like a Remington. Round with Remington style recoil lug. The lug was not integral to the action
The trigger looked really strange. It kind of looked like a Winchester style but was much more exaggerated. The receiver definitely said 'Winchester Model 70'

The customer got the wrong brakes of course and it was an ordeal to get the right ones. I should have taken pictures but was more interested in getting the job done right

There's no possible way I could be mistaken. I have a Post '64 and have done work to it over the years. I know what they look like.


Do u think if I sent you the rifle it could be done well?

michael_g927
March 28, 2017, 21:03
I have ofton considered an AR10 mag conversion. I guess a G3 conversion would make sense since all the surplus FAL mags are gone now.
I have an FNH SPR that CDI in Florida converted to take AI mags. Their work was excellent and reasonable.

easttex
March 28, 2017, 21:43
You can bodge just about anything together, given the right planning, tools, and know-how. I've often pondered a removable magazine Mauser 98 scout rifle for example. However, I don't have access to the right materials or machine tools to do it.

To make something like this work, you'd just about need to mill a new magazine well from a billet, then work out the fitment, then work out the mechanical components of holding the FAL magazine in place and releasing it. That's a lot of work! I hope you can do it because I'd love to see it done, but I don't think it'll be easy.

Illurian00
March 29, 2017, 00:36
CG&L,

Though Winchester started farming out 'assembly' overseas some years ago, I've never seen mention that M70 receivers have been produced other than stateside.

This guy has some info :

http://leeroysramblings.com/winchester_post_64_model_70.html

justashooter
March 29, 2017, 15:40
I converted a 24-47 to mg13 magazine some years ago. zb30 mag would have been easier. lots of metal removal that would reduce action stiffness and thereby accuracy in your case.

raubvogel
March 30, 2017, 05:43
I have ofton considered an AR10 mag conversion. I guess a G3 conversion would make sense since all the surplus FAL mags are gone now.
I have an FNH SPR that CDI in Florida converted to take AI mags. Their work was excellent and reasonable.

You have to use M14 mags or the Baby Jesus will cry. ;)

MilsurpMonkey
March 30, 2017, 10:15
CG&L : "Is there any way you can post a photo of your Winchester action out of the stock? And a photo of the bolt out of the action?
Winchester either made or imported an action that's non-Mauser based. They still called it a Model 70 but it wasn't "

Never heard of an imported M70 action. Can you elaborate ? Perhaps w' the fundamental design changes like the push feed and the bolt guide rail, it might be argued that it really isn't a 'M70'. Perhaps the better marketing strategy would have been to call it the 'M71' ? No,,,Wait....

Essential difference between pre & post '64 action would be the claw to push feed (Sako type extractor).

Some irony in the fact that guys pay good money to convert the Rem M700 'clip' extractor to the Sako type extractor.


Don't you dare bring the glorious model 71 into this conversion to bottom feeder thread! :tongue:


http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj486/Milsurpmonkey/de6c526606b3cccc6fad86ffa4ad9036_zpssxclgxrw.jpg

Fn/form
March 31, 2017, 21:50
CG&L : "Is there any way you can post a photo of your Winchester action out of the stock? And a photo of the bolt out of the action?
Winchester either made or imported an action that's non-Mauser based. They still called it a Model 70 but it wasn't "

Never heard of an imported M70 action. Can you elaborate ? Perhaps w' the fundamental design changes like the push feed and the bolt guide rail, it might be argued that it really isn't a 'M70'. Perhaps the better marketing strategy would have been to call it the 'M71' ? No,,,Wait....

Essential difference between pre & post '64 action would be the claw to push feed (Sako type extractor).

Some irony in the fact that guys pay good money to convert the Rem M700 'clip' extractor to the Sako type extractor.

You may know this already...

Pre-64 were mauser type extractor.
Push feed after that
Now owned by FN and they make push, CRF and some bastardized hybrid. New Win rifles have the "MOA" style trigger, so did my TSR 300wsm. I prefer the simplicity and ruggedness of the old style trigger.

Long Rifles Inc owner has commented on variations in action screw spacing; indeed some aftermarket chassis companies limit fit to the modern short action FN branded and possible fit for other short action 70s. The WSSM rifles may be a whole other dimension futz up.

The short action receiver opening is too short to accept/feed from AICS mags, dunno what this means for FAL mags. CDI machines it for free if you buy their bottom metal and ship your rifle to them.

MGW did or does have FN SPR (short action) NOS McMillan stocks for about half the usual price. I think FN dumped their older style/model stocks when the a5m and others came out.

smoky
April 02, 2017, 18:54
I HAVE ONE, a Winchester Mod. 70 SA 7.62/ 308 Heavy Varmint converted to take M14 mags. This weapon is a great shooter and the M14 mags make it even better. I had former officer that I worked with that turned gunsmith build it..Lots of work but worth it.
Good luck, hope you get what you are looking for.