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Bogie
March 19, 2017, 09:29
Had a pretty bad kaboom with reloads in my 44 mag Ruger Super Redhawk this morning. Thank God it's build like a tank and took it. My wrist hurts like hell, but at least I didn't end up with a face full of shrapnel.

I'm not sure what happened. I've been reloading for years and am extremely careful, but this felt like a double charge. Stuck the cylinder tight and I had to pound it open with the handle of a screwdriver. Once I got it to open the primer fell out on the shooting bench.

Could a loose primer pocket and blast blowing out the primer feel like a double charge?

Having said all that, here's my question for the experts out there. The case is really, really stuck in the cylinder. I've tried with a screw driver to pound it out, but it's not budging, and I'm afraid it I pound too hard I'll separate the case head from the body and be really screwed. Any suggestions on how to get that out? Liquid wrench or something like that? Please advise.

P.S. Kaboom is not the right word in this case. I only use it euphemistically, so please don't scold me.

hagar
March 19, 2017, 10:29
You can try Kroil and let it sit for a while. Wonder if a stuck case remover for reloading dies may work?

I'm going to take a swab and guess you used Blue Dot Powder?

meltblown
March 19, 2017, 10:36
I would use a wood dowel. Say 3/8". Using a screwdriver is just going to make it easier to rip the head. Can you separate the cylinder from the gun? If so may just want to put it in the oven then quench the case to see if it will shrink while the steel is still hot.

Bogie
March 19, 2017, 11:37
I don't have any Kroil but I'll try some lubricant I have hanging around, let it set, and then use a wood dowel to try and pound it out as suggested. If that doesn't work I'll try heating with a torch and quenching. Thanks for the advise!

I think I figured out what happened. Using 240 gr copper plated bullets with Acc#5 powder. Recipe calls for 12.7 gr of Acc#5. I've unloaded a half dozen or so of this batch of bullets and the powder is weighing at about 22.7 grains. Apparently, I had the 10 grains setting set at 20 instead of 10, so instead of 12.7 gr it was 22.7 gr. Almost a double load. Ouch!

That's what happens when the lighting isn't that good and you have old eyes. Won't happen again!

easttex
March 19, 2017, 12:48
If your cylinder is damaged, contact Ruger and see if they'll sell you a new one. I'm sure they'd be delighted to know that their product protected you from harm.

K. Funk
March 19, 2017, 16:49
Maybe try some how to chill the casing to get it to shrink a bit. Glad you are OK. Might want to have Ruger check it out to make sure it is OK.

krf

notfrommt
March 19, 2017, 19:27
Contact Ruger immediately tomorrow and do not shoot it until they tell you it's ok. You basically proof tested the weapon beyond normal proof loads. :bow:

Glad you are ok!!

machinegunner
March 19, 2017, 19:36
is the gun ok?

randy762ak
March 19, 2017, 20:30
What Powder --What Bullet-- What primer >??? Most Important WHAT CHARGE WEIGHT !!!

H-110/296 Im Guessing ?????

tdb59
March 19, 2017, 20:42
What Powder --What Bullet-- What primer >??? Most Important WHAT CHARGE WEIGHT !!!

H-110/296 Im Guessing ?????

Post #4







....................

randy762ak
March 19, 2017, 21:02
OK --Thanks tdb59

I had a situation just yesterday with my 41MAG Using 296,,, Hornidy book calls for 18Gr with 210 bullet and I did not Know Hodgdon load is 19.5 -22 Gr,, Hodgdons older book says Never reduce charge by more than 3%
Seems My Low charge was shoving the bullet into the forcing cone where it finally ignited the rest of the charge and it acted like an Obstructed Bore with Major Pressure excursions and flat primers.very dangerous ! after jacking charges to 21.5 gr all is well except My wrist:)

Also Must have heavy crimps on 357-41 and 44 Mag bullets !!

grumpy1
March 19, 2017, 23:10
Contact Ruger immediately tomorrow and do not shoot it until they tell you it's ok. You basically proof tested the weapon beyond normal proof loads. :bow:

Glad you are ok!!

I second this! My guess is they may want you to send it to them so they can look at it. Who knows they may even warranty the gun just so they can destroy it so it doesn't become a legal liability to them.

Glad to hear your ok.

Gazz
March 20, 2017, 06:55
Get some bore cleaner that has ammonia in it and fill that chamber and let it sit for a few days. Hopefully, the ammonia solvent will seep down between the case and chamber and slightly dissolve some of the brass so it loses its grip.
Ruger will not send a new cylinder. You will have to send the gun to them for evaluation or repair.

Bogie
March 20, 2017, 07:23
is the gun ok?

It seems ok, but I won't know if it functions properly until I'm able to get that stuck case out. It shoved the case rearward and is sticking out about 1/16 inch.... Just enough so I can't rotate the cylinder into the locked in position. As previously mentioned, I had to pound it with the handle of my screwdriver to get it open.

Once I get the case out, and if it dry fires and functions properly, I should still send it to Ruger for inspection???

0302
March 20, 2017, 08:49
i would not use that cylinder after something that stupid. get a new one & use the old one as a paper weight.

notfrommt
March 20, 2017, 09:02
Once I get the case out, and if it dry fires and functions properly, I should still send it to Ruger for inspection???


YES!!!

Bogie
March 20, 2017, 09:55
YES!!!

I was afraid you'd say that. I suppose you're right, though. It's just a pain in the butt and I was hoping to avoid the hassle.

grumpy1
March 20, 2017, 10:16
I'd be sure to let Ruger know exactly what happened and be up front and honest with them.

0302
March 20, 2017, 10:24
From Ruger website.

Question: Does Ruger recommend reloading ammunition?
Answer: No. Death, serious injury, and damage can result from improper ammunition; bore obstructions, powder overloads, or incorrect cartridge components. Even the strongest gun can be blown up by excess pressure. Only use correct ammunition loaded to U.S. Industry Standards. Always wear shooting glasses and hearing protectors. Improper ammunition destroys guns. We specifically disclaim responsibility for any damage or injury whatsoever occurring in connection with, or as a result of, the use in any RugerŪ firearms of faulty, or non-standard, or 'remanufactured' or hand-loaded (reloaded) ammunition, or of cartridges other than those for which the firearm was originally chambered.

the last sentence sums it up nicely.😇

TenTea
March 20, 2017, 10:29
We specifically disclaim responsibility for any damage or injury whatsoever occurring in connection with, or as a result of, the use in any RugerŪ firearms of faulty, or non-standard, or 'remanufactured' or hand-loaded (reloaded) ammunition, or of cartridges other than those for which the firearm was originally chambered.

the last sentence sums it up nicely.😇

In other words, if it's inspected and deemed out of spec in some way due to the overcharge, they will likely fix it for the OP but *might* charge him for the service.

Bogie
March 20, 2017, 10:44
From Ruger website.

Question: Does Ruger recommend reloading ammunition?
Answer: No. Death, serious injury, and damage can result from improper ammunition; bore obstructions, powder overloads, or incorrect cartridge components. Even the strongest gun can be blown up by excess pressure. Only use correct ammunition loaded to U.S. Industry Standards. Always wear shooting glasses and hearing protectors. Improper ammunition destroys guns. We specifically disclaim responsibility for any damage or injury whatsoever occurring in connection with, or as a result of, the use in any RugerŪ firearms of faulty, or non-standard, or 'remanufactured' or hand-loaded (reloaded) ammunition, or of cartridges other than those for which the firearm was originally chambered.

the last sentence sums it up nicely.��

Thanks, but you're really just stating the obvious. Everyone knows that. Or is this your way of saying "I told you so!"

P.S. This is why I'm reluctant to even bother sending it back to Ruger for inspection. I think the answer will be that the revolver is ruined, no matter what.

Jaxxas
March 20, 2017, 16:29
Thanks, but you're really just stating the obvious. Everyone knows that. Or is this your way of saying "I told you so!"

P.S. This is why I'm reluctant to even bother sending it back to Ruger for inspection. I think the answer will be that the revolver is ruined, no matter what.

And you have exactly what to lose otherwise???

I bet Ruger knows how people use/abuse their revolvers, they know people buy them just because they are impossibly strong and beefy, they know that people reload for their revolvers. And they have every reason to promote all those qualities in their revolvers. Just my guess but I can imagine them doing just about anything short of a new serial number to have you singing their praises.

Oh yeah, of course they shy away from reloading officially, they have a lawyer on staff.

YMMV

ALL FAL
March 20, 2017, 20:09
Any Kaaboom that leaves you intact has to be a Win. Best Regards.

SWOHFAL
March 20, 2017, 22:29
I doubt the revolver is ruined beyond the cylinder.

easttex
March 20, 2017, 23:03
I was afraid you'd say that. I suppose you're right, though. It's just a pain in the butt and I was hoping to avoid the hassle.

You only get *one*. Don't press your luck. This could've been a hell of a lot worse.

Honestly man, I don't think I'd use this revolver again until I got it inspected by an expert - or Ruger. If they charge you a couple hundred bucks for inspection and repair, so what? That's almost free compared to having a surgeon repair your hand or corneas. It's also a lot less than buying a new Super Redhawk. I'd highly encourage you to bite the bullet get somebody to inspect it and replace any parts needing to be replaced. It doesn't make sense to chance your (or unwittingly anyone else's) safety. Play it safe!

Bogie
March 21, 2017, 03:10
No, no... .you're all right. I need to get someone to look at it besides me, even if it still functions properly. That cylinder could be ruined. Thanks for all the kind words.

Timber Wolf
March 21, 2017, 06:54
Note to self (and anybody reading this): this is exactly why it is good practice to pick a powder/charge that will obviously spill out of the case if seriously overcharged.:whistling:

Sagerider
March 21, 2017, 07:22
I had exactly the same thing happen loading .44-40 for my brand new Uberti.
First shot was the last shot as the cylinder was blown to pieces and the top strap of the frame looked like a pissed off cat. Instead of nine grains of Unique I had loaded 19, scale was on ten then I added 9 more. I pay a lot more respect for my scale settings now. Yep, I was in a hurry, never again.
Chances are your revolver is toast due to frame stretching but maybe not. Ruger can tell you if it is good or trash. The cylinder is trash, I would never trust it. Once you have a revolver grenade in your hand things change. I was very very lucky and was not hurt but it could have been very different. I was alone in my backyard and I could hear the cylinder pieces sing out off into the distance when they parted company. If someone was standing near to the side they might have been killed, like at a public range.
Thank God you are OK.
There are old reloaders and bold reloaders but very few old bold reloaders or stupid ones either. I learned my lesson well and will never forget it.

Gazz
March 21, 2017, 07:48
Ruger may or may not condemn your revolver. A member of my club recently had a reloading mishap with his Ruger No. 1 rifle in .223. One of his reloads blew out the extractor and turned the forend into splinters. He sent it back to Ruger and they replaced everything no charge. We all told the guy to pull the bullets on that batch of reloads but he swore up, down and sideways that the reloads were fine. He bought a new CZ bolt action rifle in the same caliber to shoot while the Ruger was being repaired. First shot in that one using the same batch of ammo sheared the bolts lugs, launched the extractor, and magazine and splintered the stock severely. CZ was not so accommodating as Ruger and gave him $100 off towards a new rifle. He still swears there is no problem with his reloads.

Sagerider
March 21, 2017, 07:55
While I am still thinking about this to heat your cylinder with a torch will destroy the temper and ruin it turning it soft so don't ever do that.

Never have a fluorescent light near your beam scale, the light puts off a magnetic field and will change the value and not read correctly. I learned this early on years ago. Test it yourself by turning one on near your scale, it will freak you out.

Maybe time to move up into the twentyfirst century and use a digital scale. I should have done this years ago. Once zeroed it tells you what you have in the pan.

Bwana John
March 21, 2017, 11:51
Penetrating lube followed by a little chunk of dry ice in the case?

But I would not use a wooden dowel, I would use a brass punch of the correct diameter.

W.E.G.
March 21, 2017, 12:06
So, if you send it to Ruger, and they say itsfucked, and they refuse to return it to you (which they will if itsfucked), do you really want it back?

Separately, let me guess. A progressive press was involved in this disaster? Do you really load so much .44 Magnum that using a progressive is a good idea? If you had used a tray to drop charges, you could have eyeballed them, and known right away something was wrong. Yeah, I'm scolding.

The only way I would ever run a progressive press is if I were loading SO MUCH of a particular load, that I could justify setting up the press for just that one caliber and that one load, and leaving it set.

I've been loading for thirty years now. Had some fuckups. Large and small.
Mostly small.
That loading tray has save my ass several times.
I'd rather save my ass (and load good ammo), than save a little time.

richbug
March 21, 2017, 12:11
Just take a punch and knock it out. If the case head comes off, it is no big deal to collapse the case into itself with a sharp tool and it will fall right out.

Bogie
March 21, 2017, 16:58
Note to self (and anybody reading this): this is exactly why it is good practice to pick a powder/charge that will obviously spill out of the case if seriously overcharged.:whistling:

I've thought the same thing for years, and this is the only load for 4 pistol and 8 rifle rounds that I reload for that I could possibly double charge and still be able to seat the bullet. It's a combination of the large case volume of the 44 mag, the copper plated bullets, and the powder. It's a good argument to not use copper plated bullets for the 44 mag. The copper platted bullet loads are a lot lighter than a jacketed bullet load, much more comfortable to shoot, and easier on the revolver, but after this episode, I may abandon copper plated bullets in the 44 mag. All the powders suitable for the copper plated bullets leave enough room in the case that you can easily double charge them and still seat the bullet.

Bogie
March 21, 2017, 17:07
So, if you send it to Ruger, and they say itsfucked, and they refuse to return it to you (which they will if itsfucked), do you really want it back?

Separately, let me guess. A progressive press was involved in this disaster? Do you really load so much .44 Magnum that using a progressive is a good idea? If you had used a tray to drop charges, you could have eyeballed them, and known right away something was wrong. Yeah, I'm scolding.

The only way I would ever run a progressive press is if I were loading SO MUCH of a particular load, that I could justify setting up the press for just that one caliber and that one load, and leaving it set.

I've been loading for thirty years now. Had some fuckups. Large and small.
Mostly small.
That loading tray has save my ass several times.
I'd rather save my ass (and load good ammo), than save a little time.

Actually, it was a single stage press and since I had the damn scale set incorrectly all the charges look the same and you would think everything is cool until you trip off the first round. The scale readings face away from the light on my reloading bench and with it dim like that I thought it was on 10 when it was on 20 gr.

You're right. If they say it's ruined, I sure as heck am not going to want it back to shoot...... Well, it would make a nice $800 paper weight :-)

Bogie
March 21, 2017, 17:09
Just take a punch and knock it out. If the case head comes off, it is no big deal to collapse the case into itself with a sharp tool and it will fall right out.

I figured as much, but thought I'd mar the inside of the chamber wall. Guess I shouldn't worry about that much since the cylinder is likely toast, anyway. I hit it with LSA and have been letting it soak in the last couple of days. I'm going to try and get it out tonight.

Jaxxas
March 21, 2017, 17:26
I figured as much, but thought I'd mar the inside of the chamber wall. Guess I shouldn't worry about that much since the cylinder is likely toast, anyway. I hit it with LSA and have been letting it soak in the last couple of days. I'm going to try and get it out tonight.

A quick trick might be to take a can of compressed air, turn it upside down, hose down the case just until it freezes then tap it out with a wooden dowel! It certainly won't hurt the temper of cylinder.

YMMV

W.E.G.
March 21, 2017, 17:29
Other than black powder, I don't know of any pistol powder that comes close to filling the case when you go with the big-bore class.

Glad you weren't seriously hurt.

That revolver might soldier-on, but the cylinder would be suspect in my book if it took a full double-charge. I bet its bulged. Which means its no good anymore. That only leaves the frame as possibly salvagable.

In the future, maybe cut a wood dowel, and mark it with a sharpie. Drop a charge, and stick the dowel in the charged case. Use the mark as a quick-check to be sure the powder level is not way-off when you start throwing charges.

notfrommt
March 21, 2017, 17:35
I figured as much, but thought I'd mar the inside of the chamber wall. Guess I shouldn't worry about that much since the cylinder is likely toast, anyway. I hit it with LSA and have been letting it soak in the last couple of days. I'm going to try and get it out tonight.

Don't bother if you are sending it in. The lab guys at Ruger will enjoy the challenge.

I hope you can start understanding the implications of what you've done to that revolver. You have exceeded PROOF PRESSURE!! Google images will help you see what happens to the human hand when a revolver comes apart. DONT risk it.

That's my two cents anyway. Of course, I use both of my hands everyday to good affect.

Bogie
March 21, 2017, 17:54
Ok. Got the case out. Cylinder wouldn't close. Looked like the cylinder had been pushed rearward, so I took a hammer and tapped it back forward. Cylinder closes normally, revolver cycles fine, timing appears to be good. Maybe I got lucky with the copper plated bullet load. They're a lot weaker than jacketed bullet loads. The kick and blast seemed about 50% harder than a full up factory load. Maybe the gun isn't trashed. I'm hopeful. I'll send it to Ruger for inspection.

0302
March 21, 2017, 18:09
you could always sell it. 😳then buy another😱

Timber Wolf
March 21, 2017, 19:02
Other than black powder, I don't know of any pistol powder that comes close to filling the case when you go with the big-bore class.

Trail Boss http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=37

randy762ak
March 21, 2017, 22:43
a double charge of H-110 /296 =or=4227 would overflow the case on a 357 -41 - 44 mag

as to the revolver--Why not take it to a Gun Smith and have him gauge the cylinder /frame ??
Ill Bet a beer Its still usable -! I hope I win for your sake !

hagar
March 21, 2017, 22:53
Good reason to use a digital scale, and check your loads occasionally.

Bogie
March 22, 2017, 00:07
a double charge of H-110 /296 =or=4227 would overflow the case on a 357 -41 - 44 mag

as to the revolver--Why not take it to a Gun Smith and have him gauge the cylinder /frame ??
Ill Bet a beer Its still usable -! I hope I win for your sake !

I think that's what I'll do. Everything appears to be fine with the naked eye. I'd bet a beer it's still useable, too, but I'm going to get it checked out by a professional before I chance shooting it again.

Bogie
March 22, 2017, 00:08
Good reason to use a digital scale, and check your loads occasionally.

Yup. Going to invest in one.

randy762ak
March 22, 2017, 10:21
I have a Uniflow RCBS Powder measure.I bought the Small drum and also the Micrometer adjustment screw assembly ,, and I love it!
What I do is write down in my loading notebook every setting for every powder charge I dump. When I go to load something I set the scales at zero Set the powder charge dispenser at the known number for the charge ,Then I reset the scales to the desired weight I Dump a charge and weigh it IF I have either tool set wrong Im going to have a Large variation one way or the other..Kind of a dual self checking system.
After checking half a dozen throws I know its throwing what I want them I charge the cases In My loading Block and then check each of those with a small penlight that is ever present on my bench,,

Bogie
March 25, 2017, 09:57
I bought a digital scale today, so I won't make that mistake again.

I'm getting ready to bring the revolver to my local gunsmith for inspection and am trying to put together some data. According to the Lee reloading manual 13 gr of Acc#5 should produce 37,400 CUP, so mathematically 13/37400=22.7/X , right. (The rounds had 22.7 gr of Acc#5) So, if you solve for X, 22.7 gr of Acc#5 would produce 65,306 CUP, right? (Book say max pressure should not exceed 40,000 CUP). Does this make sense?

W.E.G.
March 25, 2017, 10:43
Not sure why you are taking it to the "local gunsmith" vs. send to Ruger.

If local gunsmith says its OK, you still gonna shoot it?

If local gunsmith says not OK, you think he can repair it?

You already know the cylinder is fooked. You need local gunsmith to tell you that?

Bogie
March 25, 2017, 11:48
I figure one experts opinion is as good as another. You know what they say about opinions. Actually, I trust my gunsmith more. I watched him inspect the weapon. Couldn't do that with Ruger. I also believe that a Ruger opinion would not be impartial and unbiased.

He checked for bulges and was not able to detect any. He put dummy rounds in it and cycled it, etc. He said it locked up fine and is ok to shoot.

He said that he doesn't think you can get enough powder in a 44 case to damage a Ruger Super Redhawk, and that his hat would be off to anyone that could blow one up. He also said that had it been a S&W it would have exploded.

grumpy1
March 25, 2017, 22:06
I figure one experts opinion is as good as another. You know what they say about opinions. Actually, I trust my gunsmith more. I watched him inspect the weapon. Couldn't do that with Ruger. I also believe that a Ruger opinion would not be impartial and unbiased.

He checked for bulges and was not able to detect any. He put dummy rounds in it and cycled it, etc. He said it locked up fine and is ok to shoot.

He said that he doesn't think you can get enough powder in a 44 case to damage a Ruger Super Redhawk, and that his hat would be off to anyone that could blow one up. He also said that had it been a S&W it would have exploded.


This gun NEEDS to be checked by Ruger. They know ALL the tolerance for that gun and have ALL the tools and gauges to check it.

I've survived two Kabooms, one with a Ruger GP100 and the other with a Glock G20. Neither was fun and something I don't want to do again. I'm not sure what happened with the Glock but I think it was a combination of weak brass and a charge right at the max with the possibility of a rifle primer mixed in. It stretched out the case head of the 10mm larger than that of a .45ACP. Glad that Glock designs there pistols to vent the gas down threw the mag well instead of trying to hold all the pressure.

But YOU can either take the advice of other or ignore it... your a big boy. At least I hope you are.

Texas Jaguar
March 25, 2017, 23:39
I saw a Ruger Blackhawk in the old Mashburn Arms in Oklahoma City years ago. It was a pre transfer bar .357 magnum. The note said it was double charged with Bullseye powder. The fired chamber blew out upwards and completely separated the top strap from the revolver. Something I personally thought was impossible with a Ruger single action revolver.

That said if Ruger inspects the gun and deems it unsafe they will simply refuse to sell you a replacement cylinder. Its yours so they cannot refuse to return it to you. It won't be repaired but it will be returned. Surely you don't want to tempt fate a second time by shooting a gun condemned by its manufacturer?

Bogie
March 26, 2017, 09:09
Ok. Ok. You've convinced me. I almost shot it this morning, but my wrist is still sore from the kaboom, so I didn't, and despite what my gunsmith said, I'm still apprehensive about shooting it. And yes, I hope that 63 qualifies me as a big boy.

Texas Jaguar
March 26, 2017, 20:32
If your bound and determined to try it then tape it to an old tire or whatever you can find that will hold it in place. Tie a long cord to the trigger and get FAR away. Be sure to load only the chamber that suffered the KABOOM. Do it solo. No sense getting someone else hurt. Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

jhend170
March 27, 2017, 20:28
Mic the hole the round was in and compare it to the others. Mic the cylinder to look for egging. If it didn't change shape I'd certainly feel better about shooting it. Still best to get Ruger to check it, but the thing's a tank that I'd trust to shake something like this off probably more than any other firearm on the market. That's why my big bore says Redhawk on it as well.

machinegunner
March 28, 2017, 09:05
I believe this thread has convinced me to go with the ruger redhawk instead of the sandw29. at least to start with.

Opie
March 28, 2017, 11:45
Glad to read that you are ok. As stated many times before, I wouldn't shoot it, and I would send it in to Ruger for inspection as they have all the tools, gauges, etc to determine if its safe or not, because you exceeded the proof load by a substantial margin. I would also bet that they have people on staff that do nothing else but work on those revolvers. Your life, limb, and eyesight is worth far more then shooting a revolver that has been through that without having it inspected by someone who really knows them.

jhend170
March 28, 2017, 14:16
I believe this thread has convinced me to go with the ruger redhawk instead of the sandw29. at least to start with.

Smiths are pretty and all, and I LOVE my 686+, but no 29 could take what a Redhawk will, and live to tell about it (as well as leaving your digits attached).

29 triggers are certainly better, but I have inherent trust in the Ruger, for exactly this reason. Had a trigger job done on my RH and it's decent. Still not what my 686 is with a job by the same guy, at the same time, but certainly acceptable in single and double action.

John Crusher
March 28, 2017, 21:39
If I had that happen to my Super Redhawk, it would go back to Ruger before I even got over the shock of the incident. The thought of a catastrophic failure and losing fingers,eyes or any other body part just would scare the crap out of me !

0302
March 28, 2017, 22:30
and yanno what if it blowed up and shredded your junk.......don't go there.

Bogie
March 29, 2017, 17:19
Mic the hole the round was in and compare it to the others. Mic the cylinder to look for egging. If it didn't change shape I'd certainly feel better about shooting it. Still best to get Ruger to check it, but the thing's a tank that I'd trust to shake something like this off probably more than any other firearm on the market. That's why my big bore says Redhawk on it as well.

This is interesting.... starting with the hole that had the kaboom and going clockwise the holes measure .4095, .4095, .4100, .4100, .4090, and .4105. Checking for "egging" I took four measurements 1.780, 1.780, 1.779, and 1.778. I did the measurements 3 times. They were all within a couple thousandths.

jhend170
March 30, 2017, 09:33
This is interesting.... starting with the hole that had the kaboom and going clockwise the holes measure .4095, .4095, .4100, .4100, .4090, and .4105. Checking for "egging" I took four measurements 1.780, 1.780, 1.779, and 1.778. I did the measurements 3 times. They were all within a couple thousandths.

Looks like the pressure took the routes it should... down the barrel, out the cylinder/forcing cone gap, and out of the primer hole. Not fun, but it protected the pistol.

As someone else mentioned I'd probably fire it remotely for a few cylinders of full-house PRODUCTION ammo, and if it clocks and fires fine consider it a lesson learned and go back to enjoying it.... IF you don't have at least a competent smith or Ruger look it over.

V guy
March 30, 2017, 11:50
Another late old cheap bastard I knew, loved to use reddot in his trap gun, instead of more expensive, higher bulk clays........

Clays could not be double charged in a 12 ga hull without serious bulging.
Red dot was ez to do that with!!

We all loaded on progressive loaders due to volume of shells needed on a given day.

Anyway, he double loaded a hull with red dot.............KABOOM went his $12,000 Krieghoff O&U.
Sweet gun, I shot it once or twice. Bbl unit just sailed "out there", according to the story.


His replacement gun was $18,000.
He is dead now, and was an old bastard. I am trying to be an older bastard; no red dot for me.

SWOHFAL
March 30, 2017, 16:07
I believe this thread has convinced me to go with the ruger redhawk instead of the sandw29. at least to start with.

S&W is class, grace and (at some times in their history) precision, while Ruger is brute strength.

Bogie
April 01, 2017, 12:28
Glad to read that you are ok. As stated many times before, I wouldn't shoot it, and I would send it in to Ruger for inspection as they have all the tools, gauges, etc to determine if its safe or not, because you exceeded the proof load by a substantial margin. I would also bet that they have people on staff that do nothing else but work on those revolvers. Your life, limb, and eyesight is worth far more then shooting a revolver that has been through that without having it inspected by someone who really knows them.

What do you mean by "exceeded the proof load by a substantial margin?" What's a proof load and what's the proof load for my 44 mag?

Bogie
April 01, 2017, 12:32
Looks like the pressure took the routes it should... down the barrel, out the cylinder/forcing cone gap, and out of the primer hole. Not fun, but it protected the pistol.

As someone else mentioned I'd probably fire it remotely for a few cylinders of full-house PRODUCTION ammo, and if it clocks and fires fine consider it a lesson learned and go back to enjoying it.... IF you don't have at least a competent smith or Ruger look it over.

I have a place where I could fire it remotely, just don't know what I could use to secure it so it wouldn't go airborne when I trip off the first round.

randy762ak
April 01, 2017, 20:49
Tie the string around the trigger and then Tape the gun to a small tire with Many wraps of DUCT tape ,,, cock the hammer get behind your cover and --===pull the string ! :eek:

Bogie
April 02, 2017, 04:38
sonTie the string around the trigger and then Tape the gun to a small tire with Many wraps of DUCT tape ,,, cock the hammer get behind your cover and --===pull the string ! :eek:

LOL!!!!

Number 1 son suggested bringing my vise, somehow wrapping the gun in leather to protect it, put it in the vise, an shoot.....

I do have an old tire that hasn't gone to the dump yet. That sounds like the easiest way to do this.

Since all the cylinder holes measure the same and the cylinder isn't warped it's probably fine, but there may be stress fractures.

I was going to take it to a local wildlife management area that has a 100 yd zero range for hunting. Just checked and it closed at the end of March for the season and won't open again until this fall. Damn! Now I have no place to go to do it. Doubt they'll let me bring a tire into the NRA range. :tinfoilhat:

armarsh
April 02, 2017, 10:01
... According to the Lee reloading manual 13 gr of Acc#5 should produce 37,400 CUP, so mathematically 13/37400=22.7/X , right. (The rounds had 22.7 gr of Acc#5) So, if you solve for X, 22.7 gr of Acc#5 would produce 65,306 CUP, right? (Book say max pressure should not exceed 40,000 CUP). Does this make sense?

Quickload predicts 104,638 psi. Since your brass remained intact I don't think this can be true. Since your primer fell out I'm going to guess 70-75K psi.

sparkeyboaz
April 02, 2017, 14:56
If you are going to test how safe this is after the incident, I would highly recommend doing a safe test where you are not holding the pistol in your hand!
There are ways to remotely test weapons and not endanger your life or limbs, not to mention bystanders.
It's your business but not all gunsmiths are experts and there may be damage that you cannot see without magnetic particle inspection or other means.
By all means, be smart and safe. You already got lucky once with this handgun!
Sparkeyboaz

Bogie
April 03, 2017, 15:42
Quickload predicts 104,638 psi. Since your brass remained intact I don't think this can be true. Since your primer fell out I'm going to guess 70-75K psi.

I think you're probably close. The one thing my calculation doesn't take into account is the added pressure due to less empty space in the case. (e.g. 12.7 grains fills the case to about ~1/3 available space. 22.7 grains fills it to ~2/3 available space.)

parallaxbill
April 07, 2017, 03:59
If I had that happen to my Super Redhawk, it would go back to Ruger before I even got over the shock of the incident. The thought of a catastrophic failure and losing fingers,eyes or any other body part just would scare the crap out of me !

This, and I would've done it before trying to remove the case and tweaking the cylinder back into place with a hammer. Let the experts, and the experts in this case are the guys at Ruger.

You got lucky, but still are toying with the idea of trying the gun again:?:facepalm:

Bogie
April 07, 2017, 15:57
This, and I would've done it before trying to remove the case and tweaking the cylinder back into place with a hammer. Let the experts, and the experts in this case are the guys at Ruger.

You got lucky, but still are toying with the idea of trying the gun again:?:facepalm:

Boy oh boy. I've said this before on this thread....Everyone sure seems to really, really trust Ruger for an unbiased, impartial evaluation. Do you really expect to get any other answer from any gun manufacturer that the cylinder is ruined? I would be totally amazed if they said it was good to go. I'd even be willing to bet $300 that Ruger's answer is that the cylinder needs to be replaced. That's probably about the cost of replacing it. Wanna bet? They say replace it, you give me $300. They say it's good to go, I give you $300.

I've done a lot of measuring of the holes and cylinder, holes all measure the same, cylinder is not warped, everything appears in order, my gunsmith has checked it out, he's ok with it. He said no bulges in the barrel, locks up tight. In my mind, the only problem could be invisible microscopic fractures in the cylinder. It's only because of that possibility that I still don't feel comfortable shooting it by hand. I'm searching for some land in the country where I can strap it to a tire and shoot a dozen or so rounds remotely. I'll let you know how it works out.

meltblown
April 07, 2017, 17:58
Just shoot the damn thing. If it bothers you wear a face shield a coat and leather gloves.

tac-40
April 08, 2017, 13:32
According to SAAMI, the standard proof loads for the 44 mag cartridge range from 130% to 140% of the maximum loaded ammo pressure. You obviously exceeded that pressure limit. You stressed all parts of that pistol, from the cylinder lock, hand, cylinder, frame forcing cone and barrel, to name a few. As most here advised, send it to Ruger. So what if they are biased, big deal. They will not tell you the gun is safe when it is not. That is not in their best interest. Sending you back a gun that they have said is okay to shoot because all is well or they repaired it, is in their best interest.

If you want to rely on your local 'smith because he will let you look over his shoulder, go ahead. But what training and equipment does he have to insure that his inspection checked everything? You have already "looked at it" and it looks and feels "alright". Why aren't you satisfied with that?

Go ahead and shoot the pistol if you want. The membership here will not hesitate to say "We told you so", when the inevitable happens.

hueyville
April 10, 2017, 18:22
Would not fool with myself or send to Ruger either. My preferred wheelgun smith retired and won't touch a gun for even good clients for any reason or amount of money. Said at 70 only has a finite number of years to shoot all the guns he built for himself and that is what he I s going to do. The shop is dark but his range is hot. Gotta love it. Of the folks still out there and have experience with would send to Ten Ring Precision (only shop know offering some of Jim Strohs options), Grant Cunningham, Clements Custom Guns, Wild West Guns or if want production type custom work try Cylinder & Slide or Clark Custom Guns. Since your more in the "inspect and repair" rather than looking for customization, Wild West has a good reputation for repairs. Ruger is so lawsuit scared they will call the pistol unserviceable. I would not begin to assume all the small parts are not affected as much as major stress areas. How many internals attached to cylinder stop could be bent or stressed? What's the condition of the top strap?

If doing myself would oder a new cylinder and crane to totally replace those parts. If never timed a wheel gun then now is not the time to learn on a suspect pistol. I would assume timimg is off and if bullets are striking forcimg cone just a few thousandths off center repeatedly then accuracy will suffer short term and forcing cone erosion will be magnified long term. Any one of a dozen issues missed that a pro might catch could have the entire pistol come unglued next overpressure event. For what a good smith charges might can buy a good used replacement. I would look at some websites and options offered and send it off with a list of things to tweak. Properly timed, squared cylinder front, barrel cylinder gap set, forcing cone cut along with an action job and will double cost of a wheelgun sometimes but it's worth every penny when done by reliable shop.

jhend170
April 11, 2017, 16:16
Another option, for a bit of insurance...

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/ShoppingCart.htm

machinegunner
April 11, 2017, 17:43
Hey if you don't want it. I'll take it!!

SWOHFAL
April 11, 2017, 21:15
If you don't know what a proof load is and can't be bothered to look it up, you probably aren't qualified to make a determination about the gun's safety to fire.

nvcdl
April 14, 2017, 20:15
If you are paranoid about revolver I'd send it back to Ruger and have them inspect it. They still make Redhawks so could replace any parts that are suspect.

Bogie
April 15, 2017, 07:57
What's the condition of the top strap?

Thanks for the constructive advice, Hueyville. Top strap appears to be fine. I'm going to contact Wild West about it.

Bogie
April 15, 2017, 07:58
If you don't know what a proof load is and can't be bothered to look it up, you probably aren't qualified to make a determination about the gun's safety to fire.

If you don't have anything constructive to bring to this discussion just STFU.

raubvogel
April 15, 2017, 08:34
Could've been worse: it could have been a French revolver, like say a Manurhin MR73. You'd probably be wearing a hook for a hand now. :biggrin:

W.E.G.
April 15, 2017, 09:18
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/movies/484AF862-0014-4299-8F96-5AD13DEC8363_zpsh5ck2c61.jpg

hueyville
April 16, 2017, 03:28
Wild West does good work at any level. I would be scared sending to a major manufacturer telling what happened may deem it unsafe and refuse to return it. Make sure before send in to get a basic quote for scope of work and promise that if determine that is unsafe to repair will return it for useveral as door stop then you can do whatever feel comfortable with. They will probably say can't give a hard quote till have in hands but a basic quote for shop labor time and services. Worst case is you pay shipping two ways and have gun returned in same condition but will have a professional opinion on all issues. Sent a gun to Ruger before that was disassembled down to every screw and pin and owner didn't know how to reassemble, I didn't take apart, bought it cheap and figured Ruger built it, they could reassemble it. Got a letter it was beyond ability due to age and nobody in-house trained on it and never returned it.

STGThndr
April 16, 2017, 03:38
Ruger may or may not condemn your revolver. A member of my club recently had a reloading mishap with his Ruger No. 1 rifle in .223. One of his reloads blew out the extractor and turned the forend into splinters. He sent it back to Ruger and they replaced everything no charge. We all told the guy to pull the bullets on that batch of reloads but he swore up, down and sideways that the reloads were fine. He bought a new CZ bolt action rifle in the same caliber to shoot while the Ruger was being repaired. First shot in that one using the same batch of ammo sheared the bolts lugs, launched the extractor, and magazine and splintered the stock severely. CZ was not so accommodating as Ruger and gave him $100 off towards a new rifle. He still swears there is no problem with his reloads.
You can't fix "stupid"... what does it take to pull (or pitch) a few cartridges???

OP: My own experiences with Ruger, admittedly while Old Billious was still running the company- make me think that returning the whole business to Ruger might be a good plan. They have always been more than fair with the issues I directed toward them... YMMV....

SWOHFAL
April 28, 2017, 19:53
If you don't have anything constructive to bring to this discussion just STFU.

You sound like a dumbfuck - constructive enough?

SWOHFAL
April 28, 2017, 19:54
Could've been worse: it could have been a French revolver, like say a Manurhin MR73. You'd probably be wearing a hook for a hand now. :biggrin:

Except they can take over half a million full power loads....

ALL FAL
April 29, 2017, 16:10
you could always sell it. 😳then buy another😱

Not acceptable, have YOU ever ended up with a POS where someone has done that????

I have, Once. Why pass on Misery ? Do you even have just One friend?

Artful
April 29, 2017, 19:14
S&W is class, grace and (at some times in their history) precision, while Ruger is brute strength.

S&W is an easy carry gun - the Ruger Redhawk is a Horse Pistol

That said I have never had to have my Redhawk worked on - my S&W was taken into the shop back in the days when I shot sillywet with it - I ain't giving up my S&W 29 but I shoot more moderate loads these days in it.

Here's a story for you - Friend of mine was given a bunch of guns there were in a house fire - the guns were on a wall and the wall collapsed inward - saving them from all the heat of the fire. On Some of the guns the springs lost their tension - we decided to not even attempt to save those - of the guns that the springs were still good on we had replaced wood and had to fight with rust and refinish them - one of the guns was a Ruger Blackhawk 30 carbine - I thought I'll just take it down and sand blast and then send it into Ruger for a reblue and have them check it - I disclosed what happened and they refused to repair it - offered to sell me replacement at (cost/wholesale) not much less than I could order a new model from my distributor so I declined and they shipped it back to me. Now several of the guns restored were rifles for 30'06, 250-3000, and other high pressure rounds - no problem with them so I doubt the Pistol was beyond repair. But Ruger (and it's legal dept.) will have bias to err on the side of caution and your safety.

raubvogel
April 30, 2017, 07:26
Except they can take over half a million full power loads....

My point exactly :wink:

SWOHFAL
April 30, 2017, 07:31
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manurhin_MR_73


Cylinder chambers are finished with an impact process that makes them glass-smooth and extremely hard. The factory proof-fires each cylinder chamber with .357 Magnum ammunition generating 30% more pressure than the C.I.P. maximum allowable pressure for the Magnum cartridge. The factory guarantees that the cylinder will not burst or show any bulging or deformation with .357 Magnum ammunition developing double the standard maximum allowable pressure of 300 MPa, meaning the cylinder can withstand 600 MPa (87000 psi, or 43.5 tons per square inch).

biyf
May 01, 2017, 15:18
S&W is an easy carry gun - the Ruger Redhawk is a Horse Pistol

That said I have never had to have my Redhawk worked on - my S&W was taken into the shop back in the days when I shot sillywet with it - I ain't giving up my S&W 29 but I shoot more moderate loads these days in it.

Here's a story for you - Friend of mine was given a bunch of guns there were in a house fire - the guns were on a wall and the wall collapsed inward - saving them from all the heat of the fire. On Some of the guns the springs lost their tension - we decided to not even attempt to save those - of the guns that the springs were still good on we had replaced wood and had to fight with rust and refinish them - one of the guns was a Ruger Blackhawk 30 carbine - I thought I'll just take it down and sand blast and then send it into Ruger for a reblue and have them check it - I disclosed what happened and they refused to repair it - offered to sell me replacement at (cost/wholesale) not much less than I could order a new model from my distributor so I declined and they shipped it back to me. Now several of the guns restored were rifles for 30'06, 250-3000, and other high pressure rounds - no problem with them so I doubt the Pistol was beyond repair. But Ruger (and it's legal dept.) will have bias to err on the side of caution and your safety.

A few years ago I was asked if I would restore a Ruger SP101 2" revolver that was in a house fire. The grips were gone and all the springs lost most of their tension, and the revolver was fairly blackened but it didn't seem to have gotten too hot in the fire. I steel-wooled it, ordered new springs and grips for it, and I'll be danged if it didn't work fine. I ran five .38 specials through it followed by five .357 rounds and gave it back to the guy. He's used it for several years since then with no issues.

Wildcat
May 09, 2017, 17:13
A few years ago I was asked if I would restore a Ruger SP101 2" revolver that was in a house fire. The grips were gone and all the springs lost most of their tension, and the revolver was fairly blackened but it didn't seem to have gotten too hot in the fire. I steel-wooled it, ordered new springs and grips for it, and I'll be danged if it didn't work fine. I ran five .38 specials through it followed by five .357 rounds and gave it back to the guy. He's used it for several years since then with no issues.

For future reference, steel wool is not ideal for putting a final finish on stainless steel. Steel wool is harder than stainless and will embed fine, carbon-rich steel strands in the surface of the stainless. These areas will then be susceptible to develop rust marks.

An abrasive pad like scotchbrite would be a better choice.

hueyville
May 10, 2017, 06:38
An abrasive pad like scotchbrite would be a better choice.

Have met a lot of folks that associate Scotch Brite pads with an item that comes from grocery store or Wallyworld. Keep them at work in multiple versions. Heavy duty tan for rust removal, maroon for paint preparation, gray ultrafine for final pre-finish buffing of wood when refinishing furniture and white light duty for polishing. Each has a wide variety of uses and often find myself using twould or three different versions to prep something then get the final desired finish desired. Use them on T-6 and T-7 aluminum for brushed finish to prepolish before hitting buffers. Buy them by the twenty count carton at local automotive paint and body supply. Experimenting with different versions and will find literally hundreds of uses for them. Have to clean a lot of painted items that have been outdoors. Find the correct one for a particular finish and combined with soap and water will strip mold, mildew and grime off an item while removing the oxidation from surface of paint and restore item almost to its "as new" condition.

Have built a service for client when their stuff gets looking bad and are told it needs stripped and repainted can put a man with three different type of pads and instructions to be careful with the heavier "grits" and soon client thinks his contractor or painter is a thief and we have another service contract finding ourselves at their homes and other business locations making old stuff look bright and new again. Also they last a long time, keep them clean and we'll rinsed after each use and will be useable till fall apart. Have a gray in shop have been using to clean mildewed and oxidized signs for a couple months. Some days may clean several hundred square feet of nasty road grime covered, mildew cover signs that if use shop towels or paper towels takes double the time and paint still looks dingy. The pads cut through crap and restore the paint in half the time. Just have to figure out which is best for a finish.

Maroon we use for paint prep, first step of polishing aluminum and "wet sanding" items getting automotive enamel of basecoat, clear coat before spraying the sealer. Gray most used as wet sand between final finish and clear coats plus cleaning and then the white use at home for polishing the wife's white porcelain kitchen sink and cleaning the porcelain tubs in rapid fashion that she still is amazed how they go from dingy and stained to looking new in no time. Use them on guns all the time. Can get hands on a rusty nickle or bad looking stainless gun and have shining like new or take a heavier pad and turn a shiny stainless rifle to mat finish or prep for Cerakote. One of the most multiuse products at work and around home.

K. Funk
May 10, 2017, 16:28
Almost a month since last post from Bogie. Hope it didn't blow up on him!

krf

SWOHFAL
May 10, 2017, 22:27
Almost a month since last post from Bogie. Hope it didn't blow up on him!

krf

Can't type with no hands....