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Arden
March 06, 2017, 08:33
Hello all,

I'm a relatively new gun owner, and managed to get my hands on the following FAL
http://i.imgur.com/jcaOnSI.jpg

Now, I've been trying to get some research done, but I've gotten stuck.
There's nothing that I can see that looks like a serial on there (not in the normal sense of the word) and on the left side, instead of C2A1, there is stamped "7.62 Automatic L2A1".

Normally speaking this would mean that it's not a Canadian gun, but a British or Australian one, correct?
(Bonus FN 1910 and 1910/22)

mp
March 06, 2017, 09:22
Serial number would be under that abomination of a scope mount.

SAFN49
March 06, 2017, 10:35
Looks like a L2A1 made for PNG that has been butchered, and get that Olympic arms scope mount off.

FUUN063
March 09, 2017, 05:16
WOW! You've got yourself a fine first gun there. I'm guessing it's an Aussie L2A1. Check out the cross pin at the rear of the lower receiver just before the wood buttstock starts. Above that pin you'll see what looks like a stamped "star". That usually depicts that it's an Aussie lower along with the "S", "R", but no "A" for the selector detents. I know it's your gun and all, but that scope, mount and the front sight ear (missing) screws have got to go unless you want to get a lot of flack here. haha................welcome to the "Files, my friend. A Malaysian contract, possibly. A lot of folks, including me, would not mind having the "toilet plunger" muzzle device.


Leland
:fal:

def90
March 09, 2017, 09:12
I can make out an SPF number on there SPF stands for Singapore Police Force.

Serial number is on the right side on the upper and lower, it will start with AD followed by a number.

ExCdnSoldierInTx
March 09, 2017, 14:38
If you were after a C2, the Aussie ones are about mostly identical except for the rear sight.
And no matter how liked and effective those toilet plunger muzzle devices were, to me, they look nothing but stupid.

A C2 clone won't be tough to do from that rig.

Arden
March 13, 2017, 12:24
I'll get some pictures of any markings I can find as soon as possible (currently not possible due to work, but Friday should be the day)

G3isMe
March 13, 2017, 18:39
As noted the lower serial number will be on the right side and the upper on left side under the top cover. Very interested to hear what your serial number is on the rifle. def90 had an astute observation, looks like a Singapore police rifle......


.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d15/hart848/Malaysian%20L2A1%20with%20Recoil%20Reducer/1%20Malay%20Kit_zpsux16mpmt.jpg


.
Here is the star FUUN063 noted to look for on the lower.

.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d15/hart848/Malaysian%20L2A1%20with%20Recoil%20Reducer/6%20Malay%20Lower%20Closeup_zps0amzpf2p.jpg

Andy the Aussie
March 13, 2017, 18:48
Looks like a L2A1 made for PNG that has been butchered, and get that Olympic arms scope mount off.... PNG ? What leads you to that conclusion ? It has the "recoil reducer" and is SPF stamped so probably one of the 465 sold to Singapore and (if I were a betting man) one of the ones delivered with a standard L1A1 rear sight and not the tangent sight. There were no direct deliveries of L2s to PNG from Lithgow but there may have been some provided via the Aussie Army as "aid" they however would be in the standard L2 guise.

If you get that abomination of a scope mount off and give us the serial number "AD?? (first two digits are the year)xxxx" we can provide a little more correct advice as to who and when etc.

Andy

Arden
March 17, 2017, 12:29
As promised, here's some additional pictures of the serial number and markings
http://i.imgur.com/LXvcBXM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/liWfHJW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Kv4Tz6d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FFDiYG8.jpg

Hope that helps with the identification :shades:
On a side note, it does have the Safe, Semi-auto and Automatic selector detents

SAFN49
March 17, 2017, 15:41
... PNG ? What leads you to that conclusion ? It has the "recoil reducer" and is SPF stamped so probably one of the 465 sold to Singapore and (if I were a betting man) one of the ones delivered with a standard L1A1 rear sight and not the tangent sight. There were no direct deliveries of L2s to PNG from Lithgow but there may have been some provided via the Aussie Army as "aid" they however would be in the standard L2 guise.

Andy

I didn't see the SPF stamp when I posted. I thought I remember the PNG L2's having the same plunger as SPF due to their small stature.

Table 1: PNGDF Small Arms Stocked, Destroyed and Retained, 2004-2006
Description Type Origin 2004Stock 2006Destroyed
AR (FN L2A1) Light machine gun Australia 41 41
Bren L4A4 Light machine gun Australia 57 57

Notes
: The 2004 stock figures are drawn from estimates provided in a series of interviews with two senior PNGDFlogistics officers.
74
From these estimates were deducted the number of each weapon system listed as ‘unaccounted for’ in the August, 2004 PNGDF audit published by the Small Arms Survey (Alpers 2004, 2005). When the exact quantityof each weapon system destroyed was unavailable from PNGDF

Andy the Aussie
March 17, 2017, 17:41
Malaya was the biggest recipient of L2s with the recoil reducer, Skennerton's book does not actually list if (or not) L2s supplied to Singapore were so fitted. But the original LGW records are all hand written so he can only work with what was recorded and there are some known errors in those records. As I said there was no record of direct sales of L2s to PNG from Lithgow. So those they had were aid out of Army stocks here ergo in the configuration that they were delivered to the Australian Army in.

ExCdnSoldierInTx
March 18, 2017, 10:22
Andy, as far as the Aussie L2s go, I'm told that the first bunch were Canadian (CAL) "kits" to be assembled down under and modified to suit, with local production instituted later on.

Do you know what the numbers were, or if the CAL kits were just the initial engineering and trials rifles? I'm not really up on that bit.
Now were all the other Nations L2s built by Lithgow? I'm not aware of CAL exporting any L2s except for Australia.

I've got plenty of experience USING the C2, but as it turns out, I know precious little about it and it's various spin offs.

Ex

Andy the Aussie
March 18, 2017, 16:19
The way I read it we used the C2 as the basis of our rifle (Long Branch started making them @1958) and the Rifle Steering Committee met on the changes that were to be agreed upon (RSC comprised members from Britain, Canada and Aus) @1960 and the first prototype Aussie rifles were delivered in 1961 with actual production in 1962. I do not doubt we would have taken possession of one or more examples of the C2 (I have seen one personally) but I don't believe the first rifles actually delivered to service were from "Canadian Kits" though we may also have had examples of the specific C2/L2 components to examine. Throughout production the gas block and tangent sight components (the C2 used the stripper clip cover, the L2 a normal dust cover) were however sourced from Canada.

Arden
March 21, 2017, 22:00
So it's pretty much 100% sure that it's a 1970's made L2A1 for the Singapore Police Force. In my case, number 95, right?

Andy the Aussie
March 22, 2017, 03:10
AD700001 - AD7000220 were delivered to Singapore (it is also noted they were delivered with standard rear sights not the cover mounted tangent sight). So yes, 1970 (AD70xxxxx so denotes)..

hueyville
March 22, 2017, 05:28
If I had kids would trade pick of the litter for that rifle. A few little tweaks and would be a happy FAL collector. Nice score, please do your best to get it back to original trim. A lead hose doesn't need optics, just projectiles going down range.

Arden
March 22, 2017, 09:20
Planning on that yes. I've got a total of 3 FALs to purchase. This one I already have, next up will be a Belgian made Israeli contract FAL if I can get my mitts on one, shouldn't be a problem.

The last one will be a run of the mill L1A1 that I'll be modernizing (nothing permanent or damaging either)

ExCdnSoldierInTx
March 24, 2017, 18:20
Thanks for the info, Andy. Obviously, I've used plenty of C2s and have, over the years, developed a complete and total disdain for the type, not because of their "coolness", of which there is plenty, but instead because of their total and absolute uselessness as a viable squad MG.

Plus they're bloody heavy, the front end wobbles, and box mags are such a PITA to deal with on a squad weapon. We supposedly got past that after the Bren and BAR were phased out...

That being said, I'd SO have one in my collection. I had the chance to play with an original Izzy HB with bipod at James's last FAL shoot, and I'd forgotten how easy it is to control your fire in FA with one. They can make a buck Private MG man look like a seasoned pro.
It's a place I'd like to visit again, but I have no desire to live it for keeps anymore.

Andy the Aussie
March 24, 2017, 18:30
L2s were never popular/greatly respected in service here. L4 Brens were though... ;)

ExCdnSoldierInTx
March 24, 2017, 18:35
The Pig used down south was lusted after by us peons.
An actual real, live BELT fed MG not mounted on a tripod... too cool

Andy the Aussie
March 24, 2017, 21:29
We had L4s serving alongside L2s alongside M60s alongside L7s (about 30 of those) alongside MAG58s. MAG58s and "Maximis" and F89s are the go these days....:facepalm:

ExCdnSoldierInTx
March 24, 2017, 22:07
We had L4s serving alongside L2s alongside M60s alongside L7s (about 30 of those) alongside MAG58s. MAG58s and "Maximis" and F89s are the go these days....:facepalm:

When you leave military decisions to political hacks......