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View Full Version : Crocs Gunshop L1A1 Builds Worth?


Hijeefrey95
February 26, 2017, 17:33
Im thinking of picking one of these up but the price seems really high for a US build, what are your opinions?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/611775612

VALMET
February 26, 2017, 17:52
I don't doubt for a min that they're quality builds, but for that price I'd opt for an Onyx or Eden rec gun or saving a bit more and springing for a Poyer.

msnyder
February 26, 2017, 19:58
Im thinking of picking one of these up but the price seems really high for a US build, what are your opinions?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/611775612

That's a $1500 L1A1 IMHO.

hkshooter
February 26, 2017, 20:10
There's no way any sane person would pay that. As Mike said, it's a $1500 rifle. Sure they can ask what they want but it seems these guys are looking for a sucker.

embatp
February 26, 2017, 21:34
There's no way any sane person would pay that. As Mike said, it's a $1500 rifle. Sure they can ask what they want but it seems these guys are looking for a sucker.

This.....

Chester Nimitz
February 27, 2017, 01:50
His appearance on the scene struck me as someone who is trying to fill in for the late Pat Jones. I called once to inquire about something, a Woman answered. She was annoyed that I interrupted her telephone conversation (she had to end another call to take mine). Oh, so sorry, I never will call again....

Vulcanator
February 27, 2017, 07:45
I've always wondered if he ever moved any of those rifles. They do look superb, I don't doubt that they were built with loving care, but they're outrageously overpriced.

gunplumber
February 27, 2017, 10:05
customer of mine is having something similar built by me, right now.

$650 DSA Aussie receiver
$800 L1A1 kit original barrel
$300 new IWD furniture.
$100 other US parts
$550 ass/black over park
-------
$2400

Pluribus
February 27, 2017, 11:18
customer of mine is having something similar built by me, right now.

$650 DSA Aussie receiver
$800 L1A1 kit original barrel
$300 new IWD furniture.
$100 other US parts
$550 ass/black over park
-------
$2400

Shirley you don't make the same claim though, right? Right?

These are Sub MOA if you can shoot good.

That's CnP from the guys ad. That's a bold damn claim for anyone selling this type of rifle.

:tongue:

DakTo
February 27, 2017, 11:21
Vastly overpriced and the 922r parts do not impress me especially the furniture. I much prefer original furniture.
$1500-$1800 no matter how much they have invested in it.

gunplumber
February 27, 2017, 11:39
Shirley you don't make the same claim though, right? Right?

No, of course not (and don't call me Shirley!).

And I was trying to show a maximum price, on a superior receiver. TTBOMK, ABNI receivers are machiend from billet, not forged. No problem with that, but the ad is kindof bullshit.

And I know that original pistons are chromed, not stainless. I'm the one who had the FSE pistons chromed, although I have no problem with the TAPCO (et al) stainless.

Funny side note, when I shipped them back to Harold, UPS freaked out because some numb-nuts thought the "gas pistons" on the description meant the crate was full of gasoline.

I also don't think that a 1-10 twist is a bonus, if it is accurate.

Pluribus
February 27, 2017, 12:42
It is a bull shit ad but, I was under the impression that a 1-10 twist was considered optimal for a .30 150ish gr. Nato sort of boolit? Perhaps that's the onus of his claim.

gunplumber
February 27, 2017, 13:13
It is a bull shit ad but, I was under the impression that a 1-10 twist was considered optimal for a .30 150ish gr. Nato sort of boolit? Perhaps that's the onus of his claim.



1-12 favors the 147-150g NATO Ball
1-10 favors the 168-175g Match

Either will shoot the other fine, but will shoot the one matched to the twist better (at least theoretically).

RG Coburn
February 27, 2017, 13:59
:A 1 in 10 Twist Rate Barrel that's Chambered for M118LR Sniper Ammunition.

Runs NATO or Commercial Brass in all Bullet Grain weights."

Call on this if I'm off,but aren't "match" barrels reamed in such a way,that the bullet just slightly contacts the rifling? And that by running ammo with a shorter lead (gap between bullet and rifling) would cause some erosion or wear and degrade accuracy?

d_s
February 27, 2017, 14:01
Im thinking of picking one of these up but the price seems really high for a US build, what are your opinions?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/611775612

Take this with a grain of salt, but I bought an L1A1 build that was supposedly looked over by Crocs. I needed to retime the barrel and when I did, the barrel came off with a mere crescent wrench and hand pressure. Bottom line, you can, with a bit of care, build one of these as well as anyone else.

eternal24k
February 27, 2017, 14:09
I just want to know where to get the barrel

Pluribus
February 27, 2017, 14:13
1-12 favors the 147-150g NATO Ball
1-10 favors the 168-175g Match

Either will shoot the other fine, but will shoot the one matched to the twist better (at least theoretically).

That explains why my 1939 M1 likes the Sierra MK 168. I guess I mis-thunk the the 1-10 with the 150ish moniker as covering 147gr - 170gr. Thnks for setting me straight.

BTW all: I activated my spell check this morning and, when I typed "mis-thunk" it didn't alert. I find this appalling. That's my digression contribution.

:whistling:

2barearms
February 27, 2017, 15:50
Im thinking of picking one of these up but the price seems really high for a US build, what are your opinions?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/611775612

First off no FAL no matter how nice the Kit is worth $4000.00 built on an Entreprize Arms Receiver.
He may certainly know how to build a FAL but the end doesn't justify the means. You could buy a lot
of FAL for $2000.00 these days. I'm still confused by introducing an M118 type statement that would
somehow elevate this rifle to 'Sniper Grade'.


Some gun manufacturers and their agents don't believe you have the right
to complain or criticize them. Also if you make a statement on a 'forum' you are not capable of making rational and coherent statements of fact. So to be fair when considering buying something on the 'internet' get the facts.

https://smithenterpriseinc.blogspot.com/2013/10/product-disparagement-update-from-croc.html

Fairness disclosure: I have purchased items for them some time back and my experience was good.

RG Coburn
February 27, 2017, 15:54
Odd..the AK typically has a twist rate of 1 in 9.45 inches. You'd think a slower rate it would favor.

lysanderxiii
February 27, 2017, 19:10
:A 1 in 10 Twist Rate Barrel that's Chambered for M118LR Sniper Ammunition.

Runs NATO or Commercial Brass in all Bullet Grain weights."

Call on this if I'm off,but aren't "match" barrels reamed in such a way,that the bullet just slightly contacts the rifling?
Any bullet can "just contact the rifling".... just seat it deeper or shallower as required.

Reaming for a particular bullet would not be practical. Ream to SAAMI specs and tailor the ammunition to the rifle, if you want the best possible accuracy, or safety shoot any factory ammo without danger.

And that by running ammo with a shorter lead (gap between bullet and rifling) would cause some erosion or wear and degrade accuracy?
Yes, fixing that is called "chasing the rifling", or some variation thereof. It involves seating the bullet in the neck of the case so that is is just shy of the origin of rifling, and increasing the OAL to maintain that gap as the throat erodes.

As to the OP's link and its price . . . but, you are also getting that fine carry case with it, don't forget that.

JonnyP
February 27, 2017, 19:55
It is overpriced, but for every rifle there is a market. You could also argue the same thing with the 'special edition' G1's from DSA, yet people will pay outrageous prices for them, ditto LEO's etc etc.

Maybe his 'off the shelf' L1A1 is expensive, but then again, find a really nice NOS or excellent kit, then find a Forged receiver that is Aussie inch cut, refinish the whole thing and find a nice furniture set that you can color match nicely. It's cheaper to do yourself if you don't value your own time or enjoy the hunt - and many people do. Or you could do the same thing and send it to Mark and get an excellent result for a bit less money. If you just want the above rifle GTG off the shelf, he serves a need.

Fair play to poke at the price of his GB ad, but I'd be interested to know of those decrying his smithing skills, who has actually owned and shot one of his builds? Irrespective of his 'enthusiastic/optimistic' advert, Anthony (Croc) is a good bloke and knows what he's doing. I've personally owned two Aussie variants that he built and they were beautiful rifles. One of them was the amazing L2A1 I had on sale here a few months ago. I've also talked to him on a number of occasions for different needs and found him to be responsive, enthusiastic and very passionate about the work and the L1A1.

hkshooter
February 27, 2017, 20:16
It's as simple as this, a built rifle is not worth the sum of it's parts. Period. I have $2500 invested/wasted? on my recent BGS A clone and there's not a single person here or anywhere else that will give me close to that if I sold it. I predict $1700-$1800 at the most.
Ok, yeah, I'm not Mark or Randy or Jayson. But the same applies to their builds, they will rarely draw in $ what they are worth as parts. That's just the sad truth of this hobby today. Mark's customer may be spending $2400 on his new build and I guarantee if the guy lists it here tomorrow for $2400 it'll sit.

Because someone is willing to spend the money on it doesn't make it worth it to the market.

baker72
February 27, 2017, 20:25
It is overpriced, but for every rifle there is a market. You could also argue the same thing with the 'special edition' G1's from DSA, yet people will pay outrageous prices for them, ditto LEO's etc etc.

Maybe his 'off the shelf' L1A1 is expensive, but then again, find a really nice NOS or excellent kit, then find a Forged receiver that is Aussie inch cut, refinish the whole thing and find a nice furniture set that you can color match nicely. It's cheaper to do yourself if you don't value your own time or enjoy the hunt - and many people do. Or you could do the same thing and send it to Mark and get an excellent result for a bit less money. If you just want the above rifle GTG off the shelf, he serves a need.

Fair play to poke at the price of his GB ad, but I'd be interested to know of those decrying his smithing skills, who has actually owned and shot one of his builds? Irrespective of his 'enthusiastic/optimistic' advert, Anthony (Croc) is a good bloke and knows what he's doing. I've personally owned two Aussie variants that he built and they were beautiful rifles. One of them was the amazing L2A1 I had on sale here a few months ago. I've also talked to him on a number of occasions for different needs and found him to be responsive, enthusiastic and very passionate about the work and the L1A1.

+1 on that Johnny I've had him build L2 , L1 Lithgow, L1f1 abi enterprise and a lot of Enfield stuff, of course the price of these build was way cheaper as I gave him the parts , Anthony quote for a build were you supply parts is very reasonable and the quality is the same top notch
Anthony is buying enterprise receivers sometime a full rifle to make these builds, sure he can sell the parts mostly brit for some reason to re-cop some funds.
so I think some of the that price is in the Enterprise receiver( hard to find) as we know not made anymore and I for one like them over DSA also not made anymore so that price is going to go up even mark quote is 2500 so for the 1500 guys I think not.
if you think the price is to high do what john said find the parts and have mark build it and save some dollars but it will take a lot longer as you have to hunt for these parts that have really dried up

Good luck with you build or buy

Will

SteelGreyML
February 27, 2017, 20:40
I would not pay that price for that L1A1. Having said that, Croc built me a an SEI M14. Fit and finish are great and the price, while high, was still reasonable given the parts. Nice guy to deal with.

Kb466
February 27, 2017, 23:49
This thread makes me uneasy. I don't think we should be posting opinions as to prices being asked on Gunbroker when we don't know the product or the vendor. Seems to be a slippery slope if we start the practice of bashing other vendors or competitors. don't think we are allowed to criticize prices asked in the Marketplace here-- I don't think we should be bashing prices on other sites-- just my view. I think a potential buyer should do his own research and price shopping and then make his own decision as to the purchase.
In the interests of fair disclosure, Anthony of Croc's lives just up the road from me. He assembled and finished my L1A1/SLR clone for me and did a splendid job on it. Anthony knows his L1A1's having grew up with them in his native Australia. He has the tools, parts and knowledge to work on them. And he is a really great guy. I have my opinion on the L1A1-- I'm sure it is a fine rifle, but I will keep my opinion on the price to myself.
Bill M.

gunplumber
February 28, 2017, 07:59
Some gun manufacturers and their agents don't believe you have the right to complain or criticize them.

Ron Smith is a terminal douchebag piece-of-shit who discovered "lawfare". Malicious abuse of the legal system to restrict competition and muzzle opposition. He's probably made more money suing people for "infringement" over a product that had been around long before he was born, than on making anything useful himself. He is not his father, that's for sure.

He tried that shit on me and it didn't go so well for him. He was a douchebag 25 years ago and he's gone downhill since then. I think he's mentally ill. But he could just be a douchebag piece of shit loser.

I have no problem ripping into vendors or consumers who deserve it. The ad suggests the one writing it lacks some basic information on the FAL, or is deliberately lying to make a sale. That kind of bullshit needs to be called out, anywhere and anytime. As for price - anything is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, that day. I don't care what he's asking. I do care that he's either grossly misinformed, or deliberately lying.

Jaxxas
February 28, 2017, 09:57
This thread makes me uneasy. I don't think we should be posting opinions as to prices being asked on Gunbroker when we don't know the product or the vendor.

Opinions, it's what people do best! Add all the qualifiers you like until you are comfortable. For me on the OP, Don't have any L1A1's nor do I know the builder but it looks OK, but can't see ever paying that kinda money.

Seems to be a slippery slope if we start the practice of bashing other vendors or competitors.

Most of us aren't vendors or competitors, we be consumers.

don't think we are allowed to criticize prices asked in the Marketplace here-- I don't think we should be bashing prices on other sites-- just my view.

Sure you can, just not in the marketplace thread.


I think a potential buyer should do his own research and price shopping and then make his own decision as to the purchase.

This thread could very well be the research and price shopping that one is doing as to purchase.


In the interests of fair disclosure, Anthony of Croc's lives just up the road from me. He assembled and finished my L1A1/SLR clone for me and did a splendid job on it. Anthony knows his L1A1's having grew up with them in his native Australia. He has the tools, parts and knowledge to work on them. And he is a really great guy.

Totally valid input, I'm sure a prospective buyer would love reading these comments.

I have my opinion on the L1A1-- I'm sure it is a fine rifle, but I will keep my opinion on the price to myself.
Bill M.

Too bad, maybe you could have helped with more info.


YMMV

aussiedave
February 28, 2017, 10:15
this guy is making claims about being a Lithgow trained L1A1 builder, only problem is they stopped building them a long time ago and it was not like any one person did all the steps to build an individual rifle.

Pluribus
February 28, 2017, 10:35
This thread makes me uneasy. I don't think we should be posting opinions as to prices being asked on Gunbroker when we don't know the product or the vendor. Seems to be a slippery slope if we start the practice of bashing other vendors or competitors. don't think we are allowed to criticize prices asked in the Marketplace here-- I don't think we should be bashing prices on other sites-- just my view. I think a potential buyer should do his own research and price shopping and then make his own decision as to the purchase.
....... I have my opinion on the L1A1-- I'm sure it is a fine rifle, but I will keep my opinion on the price to myself.
Bill M.

Some do know the vendor.

No trolling of a persons MP ad. Feel free to start your own thread, in another forum, about a thread/price in the MP, just not in the MP or, in the OP's original post. Like what an Arrogant Bastard GP is which, is common knowledge, just not in the MP ad the Arrogant Bastard has initiated.

With all due respect to Arrogant Bastards here and, everywhere.

The WWW is a very, very gray place. Not a warm fuzzy, cute or, cuddly place. Shades of GRAY and, scary, too.

DakTo
February 28, 2017, 10:56
Speaking of Australian what would some one pay for this one?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg.html)

planemarty
February 28, 2017, 13:08
Very nice rifle, Dakto.

jhend170
February 28, 2017, 16:00
Speaking of Australian what would some one pay for this one?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg.html)

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u680/jhend170/tree%20fiddy_zpsjcu38tzz.jpg

tdb59
February 28, 2017, 16:17
Because someone is willing to spend the money on it doesn't make it worth it to the market.

True.


Custom car, custom home, custom gun.

Custom builds are for the original customer.

All bets are off when they come into the secondary market.




....................

enbloc8
February 28, 2017, 21:40
Speaking of Australian what would some one pay for this one?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg.html)

Five bucks. :rofl:

Is that an SPF-marked rifle?

Kb466
February 28, 2017, 22:01
Where do you get that? I don't know if he is Lithgow trained or not-- haven't seen that in his listing. However, having met and dealt with Anthony, I can say that he is clearly Australian and he clearly knows his SLR's. He has the tools, manuals and parts I have not seen elsewhere. You may disagree with his pricing, but Anthony is no phony. In fact I found him to be a great knowledgeable guy who does fine work-- in my experience.
Bill M.
this guy is making claims about being a Lithgow trained L1A1 builder, only problem is they stopped building them a long time ago and it was not like any one person did all the steps to build an individual rifle.

JonnyP
February 28, 2017, 22:25
^^This^^

He's an ex-ADF armorer.

baker72
February 28, 2017, 23:15
Speaking of Australian what would some one pay for this one?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/001_zpsfuen6oq8.jpg.html)

4k

baker72
March 01, 2017, 00:01
this guy is making claims about being a Lithgow trained L1A1 builder, only problem is they stopped building them a long time ago and it was not like any one person did all the steps to build an individual rifle.

He is a late 70s Aussie I'm a early 90s Aussie when did you come over Dave and where u from nsw westie here

lysanderxiii
March 01, 2017, 08:07
The sale price is highly personal, what you may find "overpriced" may not be, in fact, "overpriced".

Personally, these day I find anything over $500, (in 1993 dollars) overpriced.

DakTo
March 01, 2017, 08:34
Five bucks. :rofl:

Is that an SPF-marked rifle?

5 Bucks? Remind me not to do business with you. :D Someone said 4K which may be about right.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/002_zpsrluilyib.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/002_zpsrluilyib.jpg.html)

enbloc8
March 01, 2017, 16:56
5 Bucks? Remind me not to do business with you. :D Someone said 4K which may be about right.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/RedlegFN/002_zpsrluilyib.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/RedlegFN/media/002_zpsrluilyib.jpg.html)

I'll remind you after taking delivery. And it still beats tree-fiddy!!

JonnyP
March 03, 2017, 03:27
Croc's work (image credit to Baker72)

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo176/jp3492/L2A1/image_zpshu0qzgt1.jpg

DakTo
March 03, 2017, 09:45
i'm impressed with Croc's work but not their pricing. It seems to me some of our of late marketplace pricing is fast trying catching up with Croc's. :devil:

baker72
March 06, 2017, 18:49
i'm impressed with Croc's work but not their pricing. It seems to me some of our of late marketplace pricing is fast trying catching up with Croc's. :devil:

m14's types used to cost 2 to 4 times the cost of L1A1, m14 seem to be the same price but L1A1 is costing more and more is it just the lack of parts. wonder if the new potus will let barrels with kit come back in or is that a dead horse?