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View Full Version : Going price for a BWest Side Folder?


nvcdl
January 19, 2017, 11:48
Traded into a US made BWest Chinese Sidefolder - serial # starts with BWA which I understand is 1986 production.

Overall condition is excellent - no box - what is going price for one of these?

AliYahu
January 19, 2017, 12:51
Traded into a US made BWest Chinese Sidefolder - serial # starts with BWA which I understand is 1986 production.

Overall condition is excellent - no box - what is going price for one of these?

My understand - from multiple sources, and personal observation - is that B-West receivers are fairly worthless. I saw one so soft that the guy bent the ejector far out-of-spec with his thumb.
Are you sure it's US-made? B-West also imported guns.
Ah, here's info: http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=854928&postcount=5

Eli

nvcdl
January 19, 2017, 13:26
Yes -it's a US receiver - researching online some sources say that the ones made in house at BWest with serial #s staring with BWA were solid and it was the kit receivers they sold that weren't heat treated. The parts are certainly top quality.

My understand - from multiple sources, and personal observation - is that B-West receivers are fairly worthless. I saw one so soft that the guy bent the ejector far out-of-spec with his thumb.
Are you sure it's US-made? B-West also imported guns.
Ah, here's info: http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=854928&postcount=5

Eli

ftierson
January 19, 2017, 15:38
Yes -it's a US receiver - researching online some sources say that the ones made in house at BWest with serial #s staring with BWA were solid and it was the kit receivers they sold that weren't heat treated. The parts are certainly top quality.

I originally purchased one of the BWEST receivered guns from them (paying $150 for it at the time, which was cheap even then), essentially a Type 56 with the folding bayonet. The rifle looked really nice, but the receiver was such a piece of junk that I sent it back for a refund (one of the only times that I have ever done that ever, which should tell you something).

Today, I regret doing that because I'd just pull it apart and build it on a good receiver (which, unfortunately, weren't available at the time). If only I could have seen the future... :)

Forrest

ftierson
January 19, 2017, 15:40
I originally purchased one of the BWEST receivered guns from them (paying $150 for it at the time, which was cheap even then), essentially a Type 56 with the folding bayonet. The rifle looked really nice, but the receiver was such a piece of junk that I sent it back for a refund (one of the only times that I have ever done that ever, which should tell you something).

Today, I regret doing that because I'd just pull it apart and build it on a good receiver (which, unfortunately, weren't available at the time). If only I could have seen the future... :)



PS: Maybe there were some good ones, but the one I got wasn't one of them.

Forrest

pre1989
January 19, 2017, 15:40
Just make sure the bulk of the USA made AK lowers on them were not heat ( why B west and some other people got in trouble and force out of the gun game they uses a non FFL to make the lowers )

Yes there was some that were ok as you noted unless you can get it tested I am not sure

How much they want ..If anything past 1k I would not use it ..That is what the parts are worth ..A real pre ban red side is around 2k or so ..But with a ? lower I would just price it as parts as I really dont want the fun of the lower blowing up in my face ..

nvcdl
January 19, 2017, 16:00
I traded into it at a decent price so not too worried about losing money.

Tuscan Raider
January 19, 2017, 17:28
Can you trade it back?

nvcdl
January 19, 2017, 17:42
I'm half tempted to keep the thing and see how how well it holds up.

Riversidesports
January 19, 2017, 19:03
BWest AK stories are typical of the influence of the Internet on Group Think
in fact quite a bit of the lore is to borrow current lexicon, "Fake News"

Some truths:

BWest imported a good number of actual Chinese rifles
having said that you will get clowns claiming Anything BWest is suspect, just isn't so.

BWest built guns were spot hardened. No they are not in the same boat as Chinese manufactured receivers but come on guys, it's an AK.
People have built receivers from old Shovels, even car fenders
What the heck kind of sheet metal they use to knock out Kyber Pass clones in Northern Pakistan does one suppose ?

The REAL issue was after ATF slapped their fingers they ended up liquidating everything through J&G. This included a pile of unhardened receivers. At the time there were also a ton of Chinese kits and quite a number of Gun Schmidts got in a cottage industry of slapping "BWest" AKs together.
Those receivers were Dead Soft, the most common failure was a peened out ejector.

I was around back then, an adult and in the business
I personally know characters that ordered BWest built AKs through us back in the day that still have them and have ran cases of ammo through them with no receiver failure. I have also seen nearly identical examples with heavy peening however it's my opinion these were assembled on the receivers that J&G had been selling after the company closed.

There was a bit of this going on with the Group Ind semi auto Uzi receivers back then as well that were similarly liquidated after that company closed. Group never produced many complete semis, most out there today are build ups by who knows.

Same deal with the anti Century online crusaders
some products were indeed very substandard, more though were perfectly fine.

I'll add I have seen Norinco & Maddi post ban AKs with failed or failing ejectors. Quality Control went all to hell as both companies were churning them out as fast as they could in the early 922r period.

I get that this was well over two decades ago, a fair share of guys were toddlers, good number had not even been born yet by the power of the Web feel they now know the "truth" about basically everything

When folks started building on BWest receivers there was very little info out there, this started some time before internet gun boards. Just tons of bubba builds were done to make a quick buck. Wrong rivets, euro trunnions adapted to BWest Chinese receivers, you name it

There has been hand wringing and online stories for years and mostly by folks who lack any direct experience with an actual BWest built rifle.
Just Sayn'

ftierson
January 19, 2017, 20:19
BWest AK stories are typical of the influence of the Internet on Group Think
in fact quite a bit of the lore is to borrow current lexicon, "Fake News"

Some truths:

BWest imported a good number of actual Chinese rifles
having said that you will get clowns claiming Anything BWest is suspect, just isn't so.

BWest built guns were spot hardened. No they are not in the same boat as Chinese manufactured receivers but come on guys, it's an AK.
People have built receivers from old Shovels, even car fenders
What the heck kind of sheet metal they use to knock out Kyber Pass clones in Northern Pakistan does one suppose ?



Glad you're around to let us know the 'truth'...

The first part is actually true. BWEST did import some Chinese guns that were good.

The receiver of the one that I mentioned (and others that I have seen over the many years that I have been in the gun business) was junque (that's a fancy way of saying junk and somewhat in line with your comments).

While many AKs have been made on junk receivers, claiming that the BWEST receivers are also similar junk doesn't strike me as a powerful advertisement for them).

Just sayin'...

Forrest

Impala_Guy
January 19, 2017, 20:24
Why would an ak sheet metal receiver have to be hardened at all? The forged and machined (at least if its a real comblock part) front trunion is the high stress bearing part that the bolt locks into.

Will the rivet holes in a "soft" ak receiver mushroom out under recoil? I mean, most modern 7.62 rifles and 12 ga shotguns have aluminum receivers that take the recoil of the locked barrel and bolt assembly. These cant be stronger than 1mm thick 1008 or 1010 steel thats been folded and riveted into a rigid shape.

The ejector I co uld see failing, isnt that a separate spot welded part?

lostmybearing
January 19, 2017, 21:33
I have had a BWD (1989) prefix B-West spiker since 1994 or so . It's been great through hundreds of rounds. If I ever find another one of the BWA ,B,C, or another D one , I plan to buy it. They are unfairly run down by the internet rumor mill and are underpriced , in my opinion. I'd love to find a folder.

Riversidesports
January 19, 2017, 23:28
Glad you're around to let us know the 'truth'...

The first part is actually true. BWEST did import some Chinese guns that were good.

The receiver of the one that I mentioned (and others that I have seen over the many years that I have been in the gun business) was junque (that's a fancy way of saying junk and somewhat in line with your comments).

While many AKs have been made on junk receivers, claiming that the BWEST receivers are also similar junk doesn't strike me as a powerful advertisement for them).

Just sayin'...

Forrest

Note, the two other bad ones I mentioned were early 922r Chinese MAKs and Maddis. Ones that many rave on with praise over.
Many were straight crap and no better than the worst of the BWest guns
that simple Forrest.

Riversidesports
January 19, 2017, 23:35
Why would an ak sheet metal receiver have to be hardened at all? The forged and machined (at least if its a real comblock part) front trunion is the high stress bearing part that the bolt locks into.

Will the rivet holes in a "soft" ak receiver mushroom out under recoil? I mean, most modern 7.62 rifles and 12 ga shotguns have aluminum receivers that take the recoil of the locked barrel and bolt assembly. These cant be stronger than 1mm thick 1008 or 1010 steel thats been folded and riveted into a rigid shape.

The ejector I co uld see failing, isnt that a separate spot welded part?

That's a great part of it Impala
The sheet metal in AKMs is not a primary load bearing part, that's primarily in the front trunnion

The ejector is an integral part of the left side rail/support and that was prone to early failure if not hardened

Most of the BWest lore is blown way out of proportion in my opinion and largely the product of early builds on the unhardened J&G sheetmetal.

Dasilly
January 20, 2017, 23:34
Cut the receiver and sell it for $900. It's a good parts kit. Mygunsnorthwest in Oregon sells new receivers.

Trigger pin holes and guide rails wear out.

Made in China, imported by Bwest are good rifles
Assembled in USA by Bwest are good parts kits

Riversidesports
January 21, 2017, 01:16
Cut the receiver and sell it for $900. It's a good parts kit. Mygunsnorthwest in Oregon sells new receivers.

Trigger pin holes and guide rails wear out.

Made in China, imported by Bwest are good rifles
Assembled in USA by Bwest are good parts kits

Again, not my observation or that of other posters in this thread.

The pin hole deal started early on
Source ?
The Asshats that were wringing out the 1st post BWest receivers back in the 90s.
Even with the dead soft receivers J&G were vending the holes were not really an issue with egging out, it was pure ejector issues
Knew one SOT that literally hammered a post sample together as a "demo"
That beast went through 1000s of rounds, ejector rolled over a few times and he welded it back up.

Guy was a clown, 75 round drum dumps on full auto, sold him a couple set of guards...he liked getting them on fire.
pin holes were never an issue

Remember this was a huge thing well up through the end of the 90s with select fire AKs and ARs well to the end of the 90s mostly with SOTs, even some characters with transferables.
Men actually trying to see how many drum dumps it to to catch things afire !

FACT Friend...Tulas & Colts won't withstand the idiot yuppie test
I used to buy the dreg AR leftovers from these exhibitions cheap, knew several SOTs who thought it cool as all get out to melt down guns.

Watched one fool with a converted Norinco get one so hot that it was self igniting chambered rounds. Gun was slightly glowing in the dark out at his farm. Like ten drums with his girls reloading them.
Bolt finally seized hard on the ejector well after the guards lit up
never understood the torture test fascination

Some guys played with casehardening things up with Kasinit ?
tricky deal. He was using stoneware raw clay and torch
Straight Bubba Smithin'

Anyways I say run a BWest until it starts to fail

Dasilly
January 21, 2017, 10:00
Source is failures I have seen, failed rifles I have owned. It has been well documented on theakfiles forum.

I have seen 3 different marked Bwest receivers. Some are crap, some are good. It's buyer beware, you have to know what you are looking at or shoot and inspect.


Here is a link to some good info http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/101539_US_Made_B_West_AK_47.html
Unfortunately most pictures of the egged trigger pin holes were hosted with Photobucket and the pictures are now gone in all the old posts.

prosecond
January 21, 2017, 10:48
Could you try heat treating with a torch or remove receiver and send to Childers to have it hardened?

pre1989
January 21, 2017, 13:00
Could you try heat treating with a torch or remove receiver and send to Childers to have it hardened?

Nope wont work last I heard the metal they used on the bads ones wont take heat it it just crap metal ..

The guns either dont work or a few will that is it ..No choice if you had a bad one but to not shoot it or put a new reciver on it

People have tried but they all firg the above the metal wotn take it

Story
February 01, 2017, 03:19
I'm half tempted to keep the thing and see how how well it holds up.

1 Whip out your micrometer and record the current measurements.
2 Take your pile of ammo, go to the range.
3 Record any changes to 1.
4 Rinse, lather, repeat.
5 If it starts to grow like Hillary's nose when she attempts to answer questions, share your findings and fit the Chicom parts to a fresh replacement receiver.
6 Otherwise, see 2 and 4.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png