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Falcon
January 16, 2017, 05:26
At a gun show today and bought this 1970 parkerized Ithaca 37-with 20" barrel, off of a walk-in.
Stock markings have U.S.N , 67+mushroom stamp and U.S. + mushroom stamp underneath stock grip/cap area.
Has any one seen this before? Was thinking some previous owner may have added them to make it look like it was used in military service but I'm not so sure.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Falcon007/IMG_0577_zpsfizona1n.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Falcon007/IMG_0575_zpsooiypwqg.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Falcon007/IMG_0574_zps20npbeka.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/Falcon007/IMG_0576_zpswavzjzir.jpg

SAFN49
January 16, 2017, 10:38
Yes they were used in this configuration by navy seals in Viet Nam. 4 shot 20" bbl.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/djm540/97134e128874f56438bdf5c17201c05f_zpsmrw28ap0.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/djm540/media/97134e128874f56438bdf5c17201c05f_zpsmrw28ap0.jpg.h tml)

Falcon
January 16, 2017, 14:29
Dave, yeah I saw that and it's the 4 round magazine /standard short barrel version but I think those Navy Seal contract shotguns had an "S" prefixed serial number. This one's SN is in the 37109XXXX range which is VN era correct. Perhaps it was a shore patrol gun :?

SAFN49
January 16, 2017, 14:47
I know one of the US Army contracts in the early 1960's had the S prefix, but some of the later military ones did not. It is very possible it was a shore patrol, or ships locker gun. It may have never even made it to Viet Nam or dry land anywhere.

Falcon
January 16, 2017, 20:10
Thanks for the info,did that picture come from Bruce Canfield's book on Military Shotguns?

SAFN49
January 16, 2017, 22:17
I don't remember. I used to be really into Ithacas.

Here the AOW paperwork from a Stakeout I got from the KC PD.

I think I paid $200 for it and a $5 tax stamp. The Stakeout had been shot on the right side of the receiver and PG with a load of bird shot.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/djm540/20170116_210006_zpsqfu7zviy.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/djm540/media/20170116_210006_zpsqfu7zviy.jpg.html)

We used to shoot it one handed like a pistol with light loads of bird shot, then have someone come up to try it and slip a slug in it for them.

The recoil was about the same as Birdmans 50 BMG pistol. Only a couple of people actually fired off a few rounds of full power Incendiary rounds in it. (Yes it was registered as a AOW so no worries about ammo bans.) I think we clocked 1400-1600 fps from a 620gr bullet out of the pistol bbl. Fun times.

Riversidesports
January 17, 2017, 00:24
I am going to call it as a MP/Shore Patrol gun

Real Duck Bill guns are Extremely Rare, the Ducky muzzle device is more complex than it looks. The originals are shot diverters and create a horizontal pattern. No, don't run slugs through them.

M37s are close to the slickest pump ever made. Yours is the final evolution to this epic Browning design, dates back before WWI to the Remington Model 10 well before Ithica started going to shit in the 90s

Riversidesports
January 17, 2017, 00:39
I don't remember. I used to be really into Ithacas.

Here the AOW paperwork from a Stakeout I got from the KC PD.

I think I paid $200 for it and a $5 tax stamp. The Stakeout had been shot on the right side of the receiver and PG with a load of bird shot.

We used to shoot it one handed like a pistol with light loads of bird shot, then have someone come up to try it and slip a slug in it for them.

The recoil was about the same as Birdmans 50 BMG pistol. Only a couple of people actually fired off a few rounds of full power Incendiary rounds in it. (Yes it was registered as a AOW so no worries about ammo bans.) I think we clocked 1400-1600 fps from a 620gr bullet out of the pistol bbl. Fun times.

I grew up with these SAFN
The absolute slickest were the Depression Era original "Whippits" that the Remington custom shop was building special order on the Model 17 which was like the Model 10 and later Ithica only sized way down to 20 gauge. These were like a mini Stake Out, much easier on handle than the later Ithica build

Even with the now long gone Pachmayer Vindicator rubber grip and fore end Stake Outs remain a serious handful.

Don't get me started on how low opinion I have of the 870 and Mossberg.

Andy the Aussie
January 17, 2017, 00:39
I need to check my paperwork but I use to have an ex-RVN M37 from the Asian Contract, short barrel and short butt, no US markings (as along with Stevens 77 - had one from the same contract, Win 25s and Rem 870s they were supplied to the Vietnamese where they remained till the 90s). I would be 50/50 on this one, rear swivel is a replacement but not much else can be gleaned from that.

SAFN49
January 17, 2017, 02:01
I need to check my paperwork but I use to have an ex-RVN M37 from the Asian Contract, short barrel and short butt, no US markings (as along with Stevens 77 - had one from the same contract, Win 25s and Rem 870s they were supplied to the Vietnamese where they remained till the 90s). I would be 50/50 on this one, rear swivel is a replacement but not much else can be gleaned from that.

Does the ARVN have the hand stamped s of the later contract? It was a second run for the RVN with a hand stamped lower case s and not the upper case S of the US contract. A bunch of those "s" contracts were imported into New Zealand.

Impala_Guy
January 17, 2017, 19:46
A legit US property m37 riot gun of the Vietnam era will have small U.S. stamped on the side of the receiver near the mag tube, and a "P" proof on top of the receiver near the barrel. This is true even of the guns purchased and distributed to civilan agencies like DOE, Air Force Police, NSF outposts etc.Most of the guns in civilian hands come from the inventories of these agencies, most of whom have privatised their security forces now.

There should also be a serial number on the barrel of a legit Vietnam era US riot gun, behind the slide on the RH side. Often this number is stamped upside down.

There are a lot of fakes that have the small U.S. but not the P.

Shootability
January 17, 2017, 19:52
I love the 37 - great guns.

SAFN49
January 17, 2017, 20:02
Here is a good article about the Military 37's

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/18/the-ithaca-model-37-in-us-military-service/#

Falcon
January 17, 2017, 20:44
Yeah, no US or P markings on the receiver.Left side of barrel has "CYL" for cylinder bore, bottom of barrel stamped "0" and the Roto-Forge on right side of barrel & receiver.

Article was a good read,thanks.

Andy the Aussie
January 17, 2017, 23:01
The Asian contract guns were not US marked as they were destined for the ARVN ....extra short LOP stocks are the first clue.

The guns that went to NZ were from the same source, Vietnam, as all the ones that came here - 100s of them literally. Of those I only acquired a M77 and M37. There were also a bunch of arsenal refurbed 1911s that shipped to the RVN and were not unpacked. Despite being mixmasters that had lots of history attached and I still wish I had grabbed one....I keep an eye open for them still but they all seem to have got to their "forever homes". Oh and of cours ethe M134s....:uhoh:

fal762
January 18, 2017, 15:03
A company called Great Lakes Arsenal did a reproduction of the duckbill. I don't believe the company is in business any longer though.
I contacted them many years ago about having a duckbill installed o one of my shotguns. I asked them if they could put them on a Mossberg. They replied that they had never tried but were willing to try if I supplied the barrel. I sent them a barrel and had one put on but they said they wouldn't put one on a Mossberg in the future as it was too much of a hassle. I don't recall the reason offhand it was a hassle though.
Debated on putting it on one of my Ithacas but only had 20 gauge and a 16 gauge 37s then.
When I ger home later this week I take a picture if I remember.

fal762
March 07, 2017, 21:47
GB has "Retro Original Ithaca 37 Duckbill Shot Spreader
Vietnam issue Navy SEALS demilled barrel M37"
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/626019296

Riversidesports
March 07, 2017, 23:31
A company called Great Lakes Arsenal did a reproduction of the duckbill. I don't believe the company is in business any longer though.
I contacted them many years ago about having a duckbill installed o one of my shotguns. I asked them if they could put them on a Mossberg. They replied that they had never tried but were willing to try if I supplied the barrel. I sent them a barrel and had one put on but they said they wouldn't put one on a Mossberg in the future as it was too much of a hassle. I don't recall the reason offhand it was a hassle though.
Debated on putting it on one of my Ithacas but only had 20 gauge and a 16 gauge 37s then.
When I ger home later this week I take a picture if I remember.

There have been a couple old threads on the repro Duckbills on Subguns.
The guy who supplied the technical drawings posts there.
As I recall they were a fairly complex item to knock off and required induction brazing to fit up to a M37 barrel which was apparently slightly fatter than most other shotguns It wasn't a normal gun smith operation to attach by any means.

fal762
March 10, 2017, 23:39
Here is a picture of my 500 with the Great Lakes duckbill.