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rowjimmy
November 15, 2016, 13:43
I'm not paying top dollar for DD or YHM, etc..I have both these from PSA and the ones from DSA. I like them both, the PSA seem a little beefier while the DSA more fragile with the bearing and detente/lock.

Any of you guys have any opinions? Maybe something I'm overlooking to dissuade me from buying one over the other. They're both free shipping right now, so the only difference is PSA is $10 more.


https://www.dsarms.com/p-14181-ar15-low-profile-front-flip-up-sight.aspx

https://www.dsarms.com/p-14208-ar15-a2-rear-folding-sight.aspx

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-aluminum-flip-up-backup-sight-set-buis-7789731.html

lysanderxiii
November 15, 2016, 13:57
Of the two, the PSA is probably the better deal.

leper
November 15, 2016, 14:18
Plus 1 on the psa's, plus they flat out look better

ByronF
November 15, 2016, 15:04
Recommend spending more on primary optic and less on BUIS. If youve gone top shelf on primary optic then recommend Matech backup irons. If you are bottom-feeding on primary optics then my recommendations dont matter.

rowjimmy
November 15, 2016, 15:11
Recommend spending more on primary optic and less on BUIS. If youve gone top shelf on primary optic then recommend Matech backup irons. If you are bottom-feeding on primary optics then my recommendations dont matter.

I was thinking aimpont pros or maybe a lower end vortex.

I'll check matech out, thanks.

EDIT: Amazon puts me at $170 for a set, that's twice what I'm looking to pay. Thanks though, I have no doubt they're nice.

ByronF
November 15, 2016, 15:42
Aimpoint Pro makes BUIS a feel-good measure. Excellent primary optic.

hueyville
November 15, 2016, 19:07
Took a quick peek around and Amazon is advertising Aimpoint Pro's at $179 but link takes you to a fleabay seller with Sightmarks. Already was anticipating dropping at least two into the cart but backed up quick. Sellers that have learned to play Amazon to draw people into wasting time or making purchase too quickly when see the "last one" heading in red are reason seldom use Amazon due to not wanting to filter through crap. BUIS sights are a hard call to make. If I have damaged a top quality optic likely means rifle is seeing a bad day. Do I want cheap sights if that day arrives?

Have purchased some inexpensive BUIS sights from several vendors and all ended up on someone else's rifle. If have to throw primary optic off through the brush, want the sights to be useful. Usually when find inexpensive BUIS sights they are intended for the air soft market. Can get a nice set of plastic Troy knockoffs for $30 but do you want a counterfeit plastic chinese air soft version?

Next option are 45 degree mounts such as Dueck Defense AR-15*Rapid Transition Sights which just tilt your rifle and keep shooting. This has its own set of problems, especially shooting from bipod and cheek weld. Also having sights sticking out at odd angle seem to get in the way when not needed but what I use when nailing down a higher power scope on burly mount. Have several 1x red dot optics that my Magpul MBUS sights cowitness with perfect and if battery or electronics die then push buttons for them to pop up and rock on. Occasionally when taking a "don't need to miss" shot flip them up to make sure sights and red dot agree and use both at same time.

Favorite setup is to put a small red dot like Trijicon RMR, Burris Fastfire III or Vortex Venom/Razor on top of magnified optic. Can use the little red dots for fast and quick then have a magnified optic for shooting farther away. Even when have a rifle with a 1x-6x optic on top most times it is set at 3x or higher if grab for a snap shot so a small red dot is nice.

Do not own the Aimpoint Pro but according to all have read with supplied mount they are a dead solid cowitness with Magpul MBUS. Yes, the Magpul are plastic but are tough buggers and not damaged a set yet. They always pop up to set zero and for just under $100 bucks for a set, believe that would make a nice combination. If spending fair money on primary, why cheap out on your backups?

Purchased a dozen or so Burris XTS-135's when price dropped under $100 a couple years ago. Mounted at least ten and half are on rifles used a lot, one on the 6.8 that leaves house with me five days out of the week. Not had a single issue with any of those Burris units yet, mate with the Magpul MBUS perfect using correct mount and under $200 combo. Not for varmint shooting at distance but great out to 100 yards or more based on size of target.

Suggest find someone with setup considering and give it a try before spending cash if can't afford to spend the money again if don't like what's on your rifle. Buyers remorse on optics and sights is a bad thing and everyone's eyes and preferences are different. Have quite the box of optics and sights purchased, installed and removed. Some were not cheap either. Find a way to test drive if possible.

rowjimmy
November 15, 2016, 20:20
Took a quick peek around and Amazon is advertising Aimpoint Pro's at $179 but link takes you to a fleabay seller with Sightmarks. Already was anticipating dropping at least two into the cart but backed up quick. Sellers that have learned to play Amazon to draw people into wasting time or making purchase too quickly when see the "last one" heading in red are reason seldom use Amazon due to not wanting to filter through crap. BUIS sights are a hard call to make. If I have damaged a top quality optic likely means rifle is seeing a bad day. Do I want cheap sights if that day arrives?

This is a valid point. But I think both the DSA and PSA sights are robust enough to stand up to some rough handling. Perhaps I should beat the shit out of one of my rifles to be sure, but they SEEM durable.

...Have purchased some inexpensive BUIS sights from several vendors and all ended up on someone else's rifle. If have to throw primary optic off through the brush, want the sights to be useful. Usually when find inexpensive BUIS sights they are intended for the air soft market. Can get a nice set of plastic Troy knockoffs for $30 but do you want a counterfeit plastic chinese air soft version?

Again, I think both the DSA and PSA are somewhat robust and hold zero.

...Next option are 45 degree mounts such as Dueck Defense AR-15*Rapid Transition Sights which just tilt your rifle and keep shooting. This has its own set of problems, especially shooting from bipod and cheek weld. Also having sights sticking out at odd angle seem to get in the way when not needed but what I use when nailing down a higher power scope on burly mount.

If this was a three gun rifle instead of defensive, 45 degree mounts make sense. However, holds with a 45 degree mount out to 200 or 300 yards make them undesirable for a BUIS for a fighting rifle IMO.

...Have several 1x red dot optics that my Magpul MBUS sights cowitness with perfect and if battery or electronics die then push buttons for them to pop up and rock on. Occasionally when taking a "don't need to miss" shot flip them up to make sure sights and red dot agree and use both at same time.
...

I'm not so much worried about co-witnessing, but I think MOST of the common BUIS/ red dot combos will do this

...Do not own the Aimpoint Pro but according to all have read with supplied mount they are a dead solid cowitness with Magpul MBUS. Yes, the Magpul are plastic but are tough buggers and not damaged a set yet. They always pop up to set zero and for just under $100 bucks for a set, believe that would make a nice combination. If spending fair money on primary, why cheap out on your backups?

I own two Aimpont pros and like them. They seem to hold zero and I cans shoot 4 moa to 200 yards all day long. Instead of "cheap", I prefer the term "economical." I'm shooting mid-grade/budget AR's now, so having as much into the rifle as I do BUIS and primary optic seems a fair deal.



...Suggest find someone with setup considering and give it a try before spending cash if can't afford to spend the money again if don't like what's on your rifle. Buyers remorse on optics and sights is a bad thing and everyone's eyes and preferences are different. Have quite the box of optics and sights purchased, installed and removed. Some were not cheap either. Find a way to test drive if possible.

I already own my primary optic(s) and the intended BUIS's and have them mounted on other rifels. But, I have finite knowledge and limited experience. The purpose of my post was to ask if anyone had any experiences with either of the mentioned BUIS's to cause them to recommend (or caution against) one over the other.

ByronF
November 15, 2016, 20:43
Find surplus Matechs. New prices are silly.

hueyville
November 15, 2016, 21:00
Have a set of the PSA versions currently residing in the junk box. Every time grab the rear sight between thumb and first finger to pull up would turn the adjustment knob. No springs assisting so have to grab and pull so creates a zero issue whenever trying to open and lock quickly. When installing shanked off the factory screw tightening with a calibrated inch/pound torque driver set for its size rating in my Uglies reference chart. Design is such have to really crank on mounting screw to get sights to snug down. At $19 per set would not buy another.

Cheap sights and mounts breaking mounting screws using a torque wrench set to proper value is my first sign rest of system is suspect. Look closely at picture of rear sight, has two slits in base have to overcome tension by bending the aluminum, not a free moving clamp. DSA's never tried.

rowjimmy
November 15, 2016, 21:14
.... Look closely at picture of rear sight, has two slits in base have to overcome tension by bending the aluminum, not a free moving clamp. DSA's never tried.

This is a good point.

EDIT: But I think you meant to use the term compression instead of tension.

W.E.G.
November 15, 2016, 23:06
I had to use BUIS once.

I was shooting an ad hoc "practical" rifle event once when it was really cold.

That fugking EOTECH shut off on recoil of my AR.

Otherwise, I like the 1-4x scopes that still show a black crosshair even if the battery dies. Lets you skip the extra iron sight doo-dads altogether.

By the time the gun has a quality scope on it, the chances of needing iron sights on the same gun are infinitessimally small.

ratas calientes
November 15, 2016, 23:33
I purchased a set of Yankee Hill BUIS. I was disappointed. They were so stiff that I had to use a pair of pliers (with the ends taped) just to push the button to get them to snap up. It took a few hours of working them to get them loose enough so I could open them with finger pressure.

On the other hand, the second set I purchased were the plastic Magpuls. I really like them. No break-in required.

Exit308
November 16, 2016, 00:16
I have the Magpul Pro BUIS and like them. Solid.

the gman
November 16, 2016, 08:14
I don't run flip up sights on my work guns. I use either the fixed barrel mounted front sight and a fixed rear sight like the Daniel Defense or I'll use a fixed front sight mounted on the very end of the rail system. I use it in conjunction with a Chinese rip off of the Aimpoint Micro that I bought 5 years ago and can't kill no matter what I try to do to it.

Red dot is on a QD mount because if it gets hit, it or any other optic is going to be worthless. This is an Aimpoint Micro that got hit with a sims round in training and it is done.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i379/thegman1763/Aimpoint%20hit%20by%20sims%20round.png

If that happened to me, I'd just rip the red dot off and go to work with the fixed sights that are already there, stood up and ready to go. I also zero my irons for longer distance work but my red dot is zeroed for shooting at very close distances (the width of a single wide trailer ;) ) with no sight offset.

I have a lower 1/3rd co-witness with my irons and prefer the HK style front sight as the round shape naturally aligns with my round rear sight. I also run an XS Sights/ CSAT rear sight with a notch in the rear and a tritium front sight post. No tritium in the rear sight as they glow too much and tend to wipe out your ability to see the front sights at night. A few years ago, I supplied some Aussie SAS guys with some uppers and they wanted Troy tritium front and rears. I advised them just to go with the fronts but sent them one with a pair of night sights. They tried it, found what I said was exactly right and went with tritium front sights only.

https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=993109&CAT=8200

If you're just playing, go with whatever floats your boat but for me, where I may need every advantage I can get, I'm going with something that is as bullet proof as I can make it. My buddy who retired from my dept a while ago is a former Recon Marine and SWAT team leader. He and other guys were searching for an armed bad guy about ten years ago and came upon him hiding in a big shed. My buddy went to shoot him but his red dot had died so no dot and no sights stood up ready to go. Fortunately, the BG surrendered but it could have been all over right there and then if my bud had needed to shoot.

Here's a decent article discussing the options:
http://www.mdtstraining.com/tag/aimpoint/

Fn/form
November 18, 2016, 17:24
The somewhat protected adjustments wheel on the PSA is is preferable. I do not like non-locking flip up irons.

I'm a huge fan of offset sights. Forget to remove the caps on your optic? Forget to turn it on? Fogged up or otherwise occluded? It's an emergency sight. I like the Griffin Armament version best, no exposed adjustments. Folding offset sights defeats purpose to me.

Also have the DD 1.5 fixed on my newest lightweight AR. Nice A1 protected rear adjustment. Will get the Diamond Head when it gets an optic. Mepro RDS Tru-Dot maybe.

Fn/form
November 18, 2016, 17:29
...No tritium in the rear sight as they glow too much and tend to wipe out your ability to see the front sights at night...

Sharpie on vial face might help dim them down. Works for pistols rear night sights too.

I found CSAT notch aperture works great close in but not easy to center circular on same aperture.

kotengu
November 18, 2016, 17:32
I use the cheap Magpul plastic back-ups, but I'm almost ready to ditch them too. If they are truly "back-ups" then the chance you'll ever use them is very rare, and realistically if your optic fails and you need another option RIGHT NOW then you'll do good enough sighting down the top of the optic.

I've always had quick release mounts and liked the idea of back-up irons because I'm a belt-and-suspenders guy, but after running an optic hard for a few years I'm almost to the point of giving that up.

base704
November 18, 2016, 19:34
I have the Magpul Pro BUIS and like them. Solid.

Ditto. :shades:


I've always had quick release mounts and liked the idea of back-up irons because I'm a belt-and-suspenders guy, but after running an optic hard for a few years I'm almost to the point of giving that up.

Everything I've read recently either says, or implies that iron sights are on their way to being extinct.
If batteries are monitored and/or changed regularly, and with the quality/durability of todays optics the likelihood of failure is almost non-existent.

But...


...I like having irons. :biggrin:

But, then again...I'm no operator.

rowjimmy
November 18, 2016, 19:39
I use the cheap Magpul plastic back-ups, but I'm almost ready to ditch them too. If they are truly "back-ups" then the chance you'll ever use them is very rare, and realistically if your optic fails and you need another option RIGHT NOW then you'll do good enough sighting down the top of the optic.

I've always had quick release mounts and liked the idea of back-up irons because I'm a belt-and-suspenders guy, but after running an optic hard for a few years I'm almost to the point of giving that up.

Yeah, but I wouldn't call $80 cheap.

i bought a set of "sniper sights" back-ups for sits and giggles from Sportsman's guide. I've no idea if they can take physical abuse, but the adjustment knobs make for easy zeroing.

I picked up a couple of Bushnell 1x4 AR optics with TDL for the rifles in question. I need to get the coin together for some more aimpoints and metal buis for my future builds.

They sold out of the PSA ones before I could order.

base704
November 18, 2016, 19:49
But, then again...I'm no operator.

I'm a recreational/weekend shooter at best.

I just read a lot of info from the guys that actually do this shit for a living, and have tried to set up a "go to AR" with that stuff in mind.:whistling:

rowjimmy
November 18, 2016, 20:27
I'm a recreational/weekend shooter at best.

I just read a lot of info from the guys that actually do this shit for a living, and have tried to set up a "go to AR" with that stuff in mind.:whistling:

Good points. They might be a redundancy.

I'm no operator either. They'd likely laugh at my $600 AR. But, they seem to run.

the gman
November 19, 2016, 12:26
Sharpie on vial face might help dim them down. Works for pistols rear night sights too. No need; just don't order the rear sight with tritium.

I found CSAT notch aperture works great close in but not easy to center circular on same aperture. I find it easy because I use a front sight with the HK style shroud which is circular too. Easy to line up one circle with another. ;)



I don't have an issue with night sights on pistols as the rear sight is an arm's length away from my eyes.

kotengu
November 19, 2016, 13:42
Yeah, but I wouldn't call $80 cheap.


Cheaper than the $250 that a lot of folks say you "need". And my AR still has a front sight tower, so it was more like $40. If you need a front and rear you are right though.

rowjimmy
November 19, 2016, 15:31
Cheaper than the $250 that a lot of folks say you "need". And my AR still has a front sight tower, so it was more like $40. If you need a front and rear you are right though.

Wait, did you just admit to owning an AR? You mean your daughter's AR, right? :rofl:

L Haney
November 19, 2016, 15:36
Wait, did you just admit to owning an AR? You mean your daughter's AR, right? :rofl:


You need to see his daughter shoot.

rowjimmy
November 19, 2016, 15:42
You need to see his daughter shoot.

Oh, I've no doubt she can shoot. I just can't believe he admitted to owning one.

L Haney
November 19, 2016, 15:47
Oh, I've no doubt she can shoot. I just can't believe he admitted to owning one.

Why not? I got a couple. One of 'em shoots 500 grain boolits. Can your .308 do that?

rowjimmy
November 19, 2016, 15:57
Why not? I got a couple. One of 'em shoots 500 grain boolits. Can your .308 do that?


I own a few myself, none in 500 Beowulf, all standard 5.56.

I like the AR and think it's a fine rifle. My AR is far more accurate than my FAL.

I was just teasing Matt about owning one since he's such a hard core fan and shooter of 7.62.

Knowing me as you do, I thought this was readily apparent. :confused:

L Haney
November 19, 2016, 16:06
Knowing me as you do, I thought this was readily apparent. :confused:

It was my friend. I'm poking ribs like I do with my buds. ;)

I jostle the roughest with the people I like. And expect the same from them.

101ABN327
November 19, 2016, 16:07
Troy makes the best!

kotengu
November 19, 2016, 17:13
Wait, did you just admit to owning an AR? You mean your daughter's AR, right? :rofl:

Yeah yeah - she lets me borrow it sometimes. Like in January. Or to let Phillip's wife shoot it. :D