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Potshot
September 27, 2016, 18:00
Have a 1911 that 3 point jams, especially on first round of full mag. Can anyone recommend a reference? Have Kuhnhausens book already. ..

tdb59
September 27, 2016, 18:06
http://www.m1911.org/technic21.htm




.................

ICOM7800
September 27, 2016, 18:35
Have a 1911 that 3 point jams, especially on first round of full mag. Can anyone recommend a reference? Have Kuhnhausens book already. ..

What do you mean?3 point jams?A jam means you have to beat it apart with a rubber mallet.You meam malfunction correct?Not sure what a 3 point is.Please clarify.Thanks

CG&L
September 27, 2016, 20:48
How long have you been shooting this particular 1911?
Has anyone done a little home gunsmithing on this gun?
Did the problem just pop up all at once?
Are you using a 10rd magazine?

C-ya
September 28, 2016, 18:52
What do you mean?3 point jams?A jam means you have to beat it apart with a rubber mallet.You meam malfunction correct?Not sure what a 3 point is.Please clarify.Thanks

See link in Post #2.

ICOM7800
September 29, 2016, 12:37
See link in Post #2.

Ok thanks.

douglas
September 29, 2016, 18:46
Not to be ugly, but I would take it to the next gunshow and trade it off for a SIG or a Glock that works right out of the box every time. That's just me.

juanni
September 29, 2016, 20:45
Not to be ugly, but I would take it to the next gunshow and trade it off for a SIG or a Glock that works right out of the box every time. That's just me.

Sound advise. :)





..............juanni

ALL FAL
September 29, 2016, 21:52
If everyone traded off Crap guns in the form of buyer beware, well, that would be F@cked, I would not and never have screwed anyone like that and have bought a lemon two times, one over gun trader and another was a 24c savage that had a bent barrel on the .22 part from a LGS that would not make good on it. I hate scumbags that do that kind of shit. The gun store went out of biz in less than a year.

douglas
October 01, 2016, 11:12
OP - not enough info on the 1911 in question to give an accurate answer on how to fix the jamming issues.

Semi-auto pistols generally have issues that can be fixed easily.
#1 Problem--Bad magazine. Change out with factory fresh or one of the better after market mags- Wilson, Chip McCormick etc.
#2 Problem - Recoil springs. They are either weak or overstrength. Replace with new recoil spring of the proper factory rating for the pistol.
#3 Problem- Barrel - Chamber could be tight or short chambered.Feed ramp may need to be polished or someone over polished it and ruined the proper feed angle into the chamber.The barrel linkage could also be worn or cracked.
#4 Problem-Ammo-Some older model 1911 barrels will not feed hollow point ammo reliably.

Not a 1911 hater by any means, however some of them can be finicky in getting them to run properly.
If bought new -ship it back to factory. If bought used, try the above. If the pistol is a family heirloom and you don't want to get rid of it, mount it on a nice display board.

My suggestion to trade it away is just that. I will not own a firearm that does not work when the trigger is pulled each and every time. Self defense firearms are critical in this regard. Hunting rifles-the trophy buck of a lifetime just walked away wasting all of the time and money that you spent in order to put yourself in a position to harvest the game in question.

The question was asked if I would give full disclosure of a troubled firearm while doing a possible trade and the answer is yes I would. There is KARMA in the world and I try to stay on the right side of it.
There are a couple of rules at Gunshows:
#1- Let the buyer beware.
#2 -Buy the gun- Not the story that goes with it.
#3- If it sounds too good to be true- It is.
I have picked up a couple of lemons over the years as well.

Could be a topic for a new thread in the General Firearm section. Might call it "Screwed at the Gunshow" or maybe "Gun Deals Gone Bad." ALL FAL can start it.

1911Ron
October 04, 2016, 12:58
Not to be ugly, but I would take it to the next gunshow and trade it off for a SIG or a Glock that works right out of the box every time. That's just me.

Just an FYI any manufacturer can have a gun that will have issues right "out of the box" so your statement is a bunch of BS "not to be ugly" and as for trading off a problem gun to some one else is BS which tells me you have no credibility and are dishonest but "that's just me" "not to be ugly" or anything:rolleyes:

idsubgun
October 05, 2016, 08:42
Have a 1911 that 3 point jams, especially on first round of full mag. Can anyone recommend a reference? Have Kuhnhausens book already. ..

Is this a factory pistol, or a homemade one?

If factory, get it back to the factory and have them fix the problem.

If homemade, get it to a 1911 pistolsmith that understands the 1911 barrel link, and how it works. There are many things that come into play with that link, including lug engagement. With too much lug engagement, the pistol will never work correctly. If too little, it could possibly be a dangerous situation.
Make sure the gunsmith is a 1911 'smith because that link is one of the most important parts of the function, accuracy and safety of the 1911 pistol. Correct barrel fitment is crucial, and not just in the link.

douglas
October 05, 2016, 14:50
Just an FYI any manufacturer can have a gun that will have issues right "out of the box" so your statement is a bunch of BS "not to be ugly" and as for trading off a problem gun to some one else is BS which tells me you have no credibility and are dishonest but "that's just me" "not to be ugly" or anything:rolleyes:

Wow just wow..my feelings are soooo hurt. He almost called me a Democrat. Now that would of pissed me off.
So it's OK.

I guess if 1911RON had taken the time to read my second post in this thread he would of seen that I am not a 1911 hater. But I committed the mortal sin of mentioning other guns brands (SIG /Glock) in a 1911 Forum thread and had the ill grace of failing to say that the 1911 is the "One Pistol to Rule All" and for failing to bow down to the 1911 holiness therefore hail and brimstone must be cast upon me in order to redeem me from my sins

There is nothing wrong with trading away a pistol that won't work right. Just as long as you tell em about the issues with the gun in the full disclosure stuff prior to the trade. Lots of people like to work on a troubled gun especially if they think it is a minor problem that can be easily fixed and they can lowball ya on the trade. All of my gun dealing have been seller happy/ buyer happy or the deal didn't get done.

Hopefully the OP will be able to get the bugs worked out of his 1911. However if he doesn't there
are lots of nice used police trade in pistols floating around , maybe if the OP wants to he can trade his 1911 for a Beretta 92 or 96, or an H@K USP 45 /40/9. Still seeing Smith and Wesson 5906 around and if he is lucky he may trade into a CZ75 or a Browning Hi-Power. Already mentioned SIG and Glock. Lots of good choices to select from that will actually work without too many issues.

Better yet, maybe 1911RON can even offer him some words of wisdom to assist the OP in his quest to fix his pistol instead of posting negative crap about me because he doesn't know how to read the posts in this thread. It will be time better spent and some good Karma might flow his way.

idsubgun
October 05, 2016, 19:05
Wow just wow..my feelings are soooo hurt. He almost called me a Democrat. Now that would of pissed me off.
So it's OK.

I guess if 1911RON had taken the time to read my second post in this thread he would of seen that I am not a 1911 hater. But I committed the mortal sin of mentioning other guns brands (SIG /Glock) in a 1911 Forum thread and had the ill grace of failing to say that the 1911 is the "One Pistol to Rule All" and for failing to bow down to the 1911 holiness therefore hail and brimstone must be cast upon me in order to redeem me from my sins.

The OP did not provide a lot of info on his 1911 pistol in his post asking for help. Kind of like saying my truck is broke but I have a Chilton manual so help me out.
Never heard of a three point jam, maybe he meant a double feed malfunction? Probably not a stovepipe. Maybe it is a FTF type jam then?

There is nothing wrong with trading away a pistol that won't work right. Just as long as you tell em about the issues with the gun in the full disclosure stuff prior to the trade. Lots of people like to work on a troubled gun especially if they think it is a minor problem that can be easily fixed and they can lowball ya on the trade. All of my gun dealing have been seller happy/ buyer happy or the deal didn't get done.

Hopefully the OP will be able to get the bugs worked out of his 1911. However if he doesn't there
are lots of nice used police trade in pistols floating around , maybe if the OP wants to he can trade his 1911 for a Beretta 92 or 96, or an H@K USP 45 /40/9. Still seeing Smith and Wesson 5906 around and if he is lucky he may trade into a CZ75 or a Browning Hi-Power. Already mentioned SIG and Glock. Lots of good choices to select from that will actually work without too many issues.

Better yet, maybe 1911RON can even offer him some words of wisdom to assist the OP in his quest to fix his pistol instead of posting negative crap about me because he doesn't know how to read the posts in this thread. It will be time better spent and some good Karma might flow his way.

Ahem...Douglas, read post #2 to understand a 3 point jam.

douglas
October 05, 2016, 21:49
Ahem...Douglas, read post #2 to understand a 3 point jam.
idsubgun,
Sounds like you nailed the problem for the OP. Good post by tdb59. Hopefully he can get is pistol fixed properly. Now I too know what a 3 point jam is. Thanks.
__________________

Potshot
October 06, 2016, 22:48
Hey guys, been a bit busy sorry to be slow on the getback.

Gun is a Norinco. Barrel is Storm Lake, fit per Kuhnhausen. Fit bushing, all that stuff, springs are fresh, recoil is 18.5 lb/in mainspring is extra power Wolff, don't remember rate.

Shortened link, no joy, went back to commie barrel/link no joy. It does rounds from mag, but knocks bullet ~0.050" back into case.

Bought this thing to learn 1911's so I am more interested in fixing it than anything, have other pistolas so not too worried about that.

Gun is a tackdriver and with the mainspring/firing pin stop setup I have in it it shoots like a pussycat.

Oh, mags are new McCormick 8 & 10 rounders, Wilson new 8 rounder and a Colt mag. All do the same malfunction.

Plan on checking feedramp angle... not sure what after that!! ...may cobble slide onto frame without barrel and see of popping rounds out of mag produces same bullet set-back.

idsubgun
October 07, 2016, 07:33
Potshot, while I've mentioned the Kuhnhausen books several times over the years, I also recommend a good video series such as the Wilson Combat Customizing the 1911 series. Although it does some stuff different then I was taught by Bill Laughridge at Cylinder & Slide, it will teach you everything you need to know. I bought it back when it was on VHS but I imagine it's as good today, possibly even better.

Well worth the price!!

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Combat-Customizing-the-1911-Auto-DVD-Set/productinfo/384D/

One thing 1911's need is a space, or step, approx. 1/32" where the frame ramp meets the barrel ramp. You need this! Did you check that?

One thing you need to keep in mind. Too many people think they want to make their 1911 into match pistols but intend to use it as a carry gun. That concept could get you killed. If you plan on carrying the pistol, you need a combat 1911 (also called tactical).
The match 1911's are set up tighter then a carry gun. This could lead to it locking up due to dirt, etc. If that happened during a match, no a big deal, you lose the match. If it happened in a combat situation, it could get you killed.
Now, don't mistake a combat pistol as being less accurate then a match gun. If set up properly, it will be as accurate. People think a tight match slide to frame fit is needed to make a 1911 accurate but the accuracy of a 1911 in mostly in the barrel lock up to the slide. You tightened up the slide to frame fit on a combat 1911 only in the front and rear, not along the full length as in a match gun. Then, right after you fire, and the slide starts to retract, you have a "sloppier" fit so it'll work if dirty. Think of the AK's. They work because they have slop in the action.



.

TenTea
October 07, 2016, 09:39
Gun is a Norinco. Barrel is Storm Lake, fit per Kuhnhausen. Fit bushing, all that stuff, springs are fresh, recoil is 18.5 lb/in mainspring is extra power Wolff, don't remember rate.



For starters, if it were mine, I'd go with Colt factory spec spring rates for 5 inch Gubment Model:
Recoil spring = 16 lbs.
Main spring = 23 lbs.

If it to be solely a wadcutter gun (light loads) then a 14 lb recoil spring and a lighter mainspring may be in order.

Potshot
October 07, 2016, 09:52
Id, we are on the same page. I agree on all points and I have set up the slide to frame as you say, if not a tad looser. The 1/32 gap is there.

This is not a carry gun for me at this point, my carry stuff is da/sa.

The rounds really nosedive in the mag, but they're supposedly good mags...

Steve in Allentown, PA
October 07, 2016, 16:04
Potshot,

Forgive me if this has already been addressed. Every round out of the magazine will nose dive to one degree or another. The first round out is the worst and the last round out barely dips. One of the tricks is to make sure the frame feedramp extends down into the frame far enough to catch that first round so that it can be deflected upward. You want the ramp to be as deep is possible in the frame consistent with maintaining the feed ramp angle and the 1/32" gap between the top of the frame ramp and the barrel ramp.

The spec feed ramp angle is 31.5 degrees but depending on a variety of factors may have to be increased or decreased for optimum feeding. A real 1911 'smith should be consulted on this point.

Ideally, the ramp would extend .400" below the top of the rails or at least to the slide stop cut out.

idsubgun
October 07, 2016, 16:48
Potshot, you say you have Kuhnhausen's 1911 manual. I'm assuming it's volume one. Volume two has blueprints, dimensions, etc. Sounds as if you might need to have it as well.

Potshot
October 07, 2016, 19:17
Guys, thanks for responding. Will check feed ramp depth. Think my Kuhnhausen book has both volumes? I do have the receiver print though.

I do believe that the front of the lugs may be allowing slop in the barrel position when linked down, so had them welded today. Vertical lockup is good, which would explain excellent accuracy. We'll see where this goes!

hueyville
October 21, 2016, 13:31
Any follow up on how your project is going?

Wildcat
October 23, 2016, 23:12
Apologies if its been mentioned already and I missed it but what ammunition is involved in the misfeeds?

Factory ammo?

Brand?

Handloads?

Bullet profile?