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chino*74
September 06, 2016, 21:37
AS near as I can tell my original buffer may or may not be there, since this shotgun is vintage mid 1940's even if it is there it's black & powder/ gunk / residue covered IF it is there. I can see the rivet through the receiver slot for the charging handle but cannot ascertain for sure if there is a buffer pad there.

I have a good manual to strip this down to all parts which is pretty much how far I need to go in order to replace the buffer.

Question: How to replace, pull a blind rivet & re-attach or what alternatives do I have? Can I mount a hard neoprene buffer flush somehow against the inside back of the receiver? Or am I going to have to haul this back to my gunsmith for a rivet?

Took it out today it shoots liked a striped ape, IOW great, kicks like a mule however, need to check my friction rings etc. otherwise half a century didn't seem to slow this bad boy down :bow:

tac-40
September 06, 2016, 23:22
According to an old Gunsmithing book from my LGS I use as a reference and from memory , you have to drill out the rivet using a standard pointed bit, then switch to a flat bottom bit to remove the old rivet. It cautions not to drill into the receiver. Then once the old rivet is totally removed, install the buffer and new rivet. Drive the new rivet into the hole and when the hits bottom, use a punch to set the rivet. It appears that you will be expanding the rivet into the hole to form a friction fit. Again, caution about driving the rivet straight and not bending it.

The book: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=20124660814&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dgunsmithing%26sortby%3D17 %26an%3Droy%2Bdunlap

Quick Google search shows it is available as a Kindle book.

Reid Coffield SGN article about the M11 uses a different method:

"The buffer is held in place with a simple steel rivet. If it were not for the difficulty in getting to the darn rivet, it would be very simple to install the new buffer. As it is. I had to make and modify some tools to deal with this job. Years ago I had a set of tools for the Model 11 specifically for this job but somewhere along the way they were loaned out and never came back! Let that be a lesson to you about loaning tools.

The edge of the hole in the receiver where the rivet was seated had been crimped in a bit to secure the original rivet. When I pulled the old rivet out, most of this crimp remained in place. Before I could seat the new rivet, I had to remove that crimp. I used a long 3/16" diameter punch with a slight taper ground on the end of it to open up or spread the crimp. With that out of the way, I turned my attention to the rivet.

The hole in the open end of the rivet was just slightly larger than 3/32". Consequently, I again used a long 1/8" diameter punch with a slightly reduced diameter tip to seat the rivet in the blind hole in the receiver. When seating it. I made sure the receiver was held vertically in a well padded vise. I sure didn't want to scratch its new finish. It's very important the back of the receiver was also firmly supported. Again, make sure there's nothing there to scratch the finish.

After the rivet was seated. I made a tool to crimp the metal of the receiver around the base of the rivet. For this I used a 1/4" diameter 9-inch piece of cold roll mild steel rod. I started with a No. 4 center drill. By using this I was able to make a tapered cone on the inside of the tool.

Remember this tool will move steel inward towards the shank of the rivet and secure the rivet base. I made sure the cone was about .250" in diameter. I then turned a slight taper on the outside of the end of the tool so the edge of the cone that would be driven into the receiver was fairly sharp, with a steep taper.

Once the turning of the tool was completed, it was ready to use. I could have heat treated it to make it more durable, but realistically. I doubt I'll be working on any more Model I Is. While my staking tool was rather soft, it was more than adequate to secure the buffer rivet. If I need to use the tool more often. I can always just touch it up and harden it.

The rivet was staked in place and then the fiber beer was installed over the rivet. A large roll pin punch was used to spread the end of the rivet to secure the buffer. With that, the repair work on my very old and much abused Model 11 was completed. "

chino*74
September 07, 2016, 08:15
OK thanks, I read the article U added; I will say the details of that operation feel a little beyond my capabilities. Can someone tell my why I cannot just adhere a buffer style pad at the inside of the receiver with some adhesive? That original pad was a fairly flat round piece of leather only if I recall correctly.

jcornss
September 07, 2016, 21:55
I've got a "ranger" shotgun that I'm pretty sure is a savage 720 (also an A5 clone) made for some store back in the late 30s. I've been completely through it and it has no buffer or any provision for one. Recoil isn't bad. You've gotta have the friction rings right though. Also the recoil spring may be tired.

tac-40
September 07, 2016, 22:15
There are many internet threads reporting the use of Rem M11's without the buffer installed. I don't think it would matter if you used field loads. But using magnum of heavy buckshot loads might require the buffer to keep from damaging the bolt or receiver. Face it, most of the early Model 11's had a wooden action spring plug ( the spring that drives the bolt forward). So I would say the recoil forces are severe will standard bird shot.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/pub/ProductImage/70270.jpg

chino*74
September 08, 2016, 21:09
Tore it down to all parts, I have the recoil buffer, it looks a bit ratty but it is basically in one piece so now have to decide if I want to deal with the rivet, have a new buffer on order so could just keep the old one & do this later. I think I will get a new recoil spring.

My setting was for heavy recoil on the bushing etc. Problem is when I shot it I already shot 90 rounds 7.62 x 39 & about 15 rounds out of my Rem 870 so by the time I got to the Model 11 my shoulder was not liking it too much, plus all that is on the butt stock is the old plastic butt plate....

New recoil spring, new recoil butt pad, need to find one that fits this stock cause an 870 size is too small.

Also, I shot all these old .12 GA rounds I bought at a garage sale (old ammo) they all functioned, #6 shot black shell casing & some unknowns...all 2 3/4., some of it kicked pretty good.

tac-40
September 09, 2016, 08:29
The Model 11's and old Browning A5's always kicked hard for me My Sweet 16 would bruise my shoulder after a day of rabbit or bird hunting. Always worked but let you know you had a real shotgun.

Most of the stocks and recoil pads for the old Browning A5's will fit the Model 11.

95t-100
September 09, 2016, 14:12
New recoil spring, new recoil butt pad, need to find one that fits this stock cause an 870 size is too small.

I have an old recoil pad from a Model 11 that you can have, I'll send you a PM. I took it off of a cracked stock that I planned on repairing/refinishing, until my dog got a hold of the stock & made it his new chew toy, so now I have no use for the recoil pad haha.

I love these old shotguns! I have a Model 11 from 1929 that I still hunt with:

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/95t-100/Shotguns/11-12-15%205709_zpspiraqtv4.jpg (http://s890.photobucket.com/user/95t-100/media/Shotguns/11-12-15%205709_zpspiraqtv4.jpg.html)

And here is my WWII trainer Savage 720:

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/95t-100/Shotguns/IMAG2302_zpsckmcaeym.jpg (http://s890.photobucket.com/user/95t-100/media/Shotguns/IMAG2302_zpsckmcaeym.jpg.html)

chino*74
September 18, 2016, 21:07
Ordered a new old stock recoil spring this spring is at least an inch longer than the old one..odd...compression forces feel similar.....we shall see what happens...I will try it.

Also got all other parts I need. What is nice I scored a whole tool box of old Rem 11 parts off ebay for a little over a 100 bucks. I must have 20 recoil buffer rivets in one container so if anyone needs anything lemme know., almost every screw needed, tons of link pins, etc., U name it...I got it...all Cosmo soaked from a hundred decades ago...

gentlemanjoe
September 18, 2016, 23:08
Nice. Gonna try to post a photo of my US marked 11 tomorrow.:cool:

Impala_Guy
September 19, 2016, 20:03
If your Auto 5 / Remington 11 kicks too hard, you either have the rings set wrong, too much oil on the magazine tube, or the barrel spring is worn out and needs to be replaced. The tube is supposed to only have a thin film of oil for corrosion prevention, Its not supposed to be dripping with oil.

http://i60.tinypic.com/vqtnwi.jpg

chino*74
September 19, 2016, 22:21
YUP I know all about the recoil / bushing settings, not oiling the mag tube more than a smidgen, worn recoil spring etc....thanks. Now I have a CUTTS style adjustable choke on mine, the recoil tension settings R not real clear., setting number 2 is heavy loads, #3 says for Cutts comp. setting since I usually run it with no choking set I am not sure which setting I am supposed to be using, or maybe I am missing something.

BTW nice 11's, esp. like the wood on that shorty, real nice. I see it was a 4 shell tube from the factory. Mine is converted so I have the tacky pheasant scroll work on it...

Impala_Guy
September 19, 2016, 22:45
The top one is a 1960s vintage Rhodesian marked FN police shotgun, it has the free shell carrier and magazine cutoff like the civilian Brownings. The bottom one a late WWII Remington model 11 with the plain "MILITARY FINISH" marked on the side. Some of the early WWII riot guns had the pheasant scroll scene on the side. M11 has a 20" barrel and the FN has a 24" barrel, rather unusual for a riot gun.

gentlemanjoe
September 20, 2016, 19:22
Finally found my Model 11. It was in a corner of my shop with mold growing on the wood. :uhoh: I bought it in the early 90's from a pawn shop in Tuscaloosa, Al for $275 which was quite a sum as I recall.

Sorry about the photos.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb376/asmcjoe/IMG_1238.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/asmcjoe/media/IMG_1238.jpg.html)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb376/asmcjoe/IMG_1237.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/asmcjoe/media/IMG_1237.jpg.html)

chino*74
October 05, 2016, 17:03
NICE Joe U got a deal on that US MIL. flaming bomb Rem.11 nowdays on GB they go for upwards of close to a grand or so...

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November 02, 2016, 00:05
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ER
March 03, 2017, 11:28
My whippet..,

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q298/ER99/gunstuff007.jpg (http://s139.photobucket.com/user/ER99/media/gunstuff007.jpg.html)

bulletslap
March 05, 2017, 15:08
Nice whippet !