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K. Funk
August 20, 2016, 20:47
OK, so I have never owned a Glock. I have been shooting for 40 years and never owned one. Shot a few, but never brought one home. All of a sudden, I have 3. The first was a 31 in .357 SIG. Quite an impressive gun, has a bark and shoots well. It kind of grew on me, so I added a 22 and a 21 to the flock. The 21 in .45 ACP is really nice, I can shoot it well and it has a distinct recoil impulse. The 22 in .40 S&W is not so impressive. It has the bark of the .357, but I cannot hold rounds on target to save my life. My Springfield XD is kind of the same way. Is the .40 S&W just a pos round in general? I only have 3 Glocks and 2 .40's, so I'm not sure if it is the gun or the round that doesn't agree with me. Thoughts welcome.

krf

scoose
August 20, 2016, 21:28
OK, so I have never owned a Glock. I have been shooting for 40 years and never owned one. Shot a few, but never brought one home. All of a sudden, I have 3. The first was a 31 in .357 SIG. Quite an impressive gun, has a bark and shoots well. It kind of grew on me, so I added a 22 and a 21 to the flock. The 21 in .45 ACP is really nice, I can shoot it well and it has a distinct recoil impulse. The 22 in .40 S&W is not so impressive. It has the bark of the .357, but I cannot hold rounds on target to save my life. My Springfield XD is kind of the same way. Is the .40 S&W just a pos round in general? I only have 3 Glocks and 2 .40's, so I'm not sure if it is the gun or the round that doesn't agree with me. Thoughts welcome.

krf


Don't think it's the round...just sayin.

I have a G22, 23, 27, 4006 smith, Para 40, CM40 and an old Baby Eagle in 40. All of them are very accurate. Of the glocks the 27 is my fav and I shoot it better than the 22 and 23. There isn't a 40, besides the CM, that I own that isnt a great shooter at 25yds. I also reload for the 40's which makes a bit of a difference as well. But even with WWB factory loads I haven't had any accuracy issues.

The factory 40's are a "snappier" round than others. The round is a higher pressure round, that being said so is the 357. As pistols get lighter and lighter the rouds remain the same. I have not shot any 357 but i do know the 40 has some "tourque" to it and can take some getting used to. It requires a firm grip and posture to stay on point.

chino*74
August 20, 2016, 22:09
I have 2 G27's & 2 G23's .40 S&W Cal. Yes they R snappy & yes I prefer the G27, it is so perfect for CCW & with Talon Grip or skater tape it grips well. No complaints but the Glocks take some practice for accuracy esp. in .40 & with a striker type firing pin mechanism....the .40 is snappy but I kinda like that barky snap feeling.

Right Side Up
August 20, 2016, 22:16
Weird about the 22. I have a 22 and a 19. of the two, the 22 is the better one. They both shoot accurately, but that 22 I happened to get is a good one.

Thorack
August 20, 2016, 22:30
Funny,

Same story here traded an M16A4 clone and a Charter Arms 9mm revolver for a NIB Glock 19MOS and NIB Glock 17. Haven't had a chance to shoot either yet.

Thorack

wanneroo
August 20, 2016, 22:36
Glocks trade accuracy for ease of use and reliability. I hate the grip and mag release. I really need to add some skater tape or some grip mod to mine.

I never had much issue with Gen 3 17s and 19s, but my Gen 4 I have never really gotten in the grove with accuracy wise until I went Euro style and moved my left side fingers down and used the groved front part of the trigger guard to rest what would be my left trigger finger on it. Only then can I shoot it consistently dead on with tight groups. Conventional modern wisdom is that you should shoot thumbs out or both parallel to one another facing ahead with no fingers ever touching the trigger guard. Doesn't work for me with the Glock.

Once I get a Walther Q5 I'm ditching my 17 from IDPA use and retiring it to static duty in a car or the barn complete with ready 33 round magazines.

What I do appreciate about Glocks is they are easy for noobs to learn on, straightforward, simple to fix and clean and are not high maintenance guns and are reliable. I think I went a year without cleaning mine.

chino*74
August 20, 2016, 22:48
Talon grips R great but on a budget skater tape will do the exact same thing & U can get a roll of it for what U would pay for one set of Talon grips. Either way it improves the grip 100 percent over factory, it'll feel like an entirely different handgun when U hold it & shoot it. Some guys like to go stipple crazy on the frame but I am not a fan of that approach.

For the tape U first clean the grip with alcohol wipes then it only requires 3 or 4 small strips about 3/8 inch wide x 2 or 3 inches long, wrap around the grip in areas that contact the hand...a 10 inch x 18 inch roll of tape will last forever in terms of replacing the tape when it wears down or starts coming loose. Skater tape easily found on EBay.

yellowhand
August 20, 2016, 23:10
Step one
Buy Glock 22 police trade ins
Step two
Replace barrel with one in 357 Sig
Step three
Shoot the hell out of it.

Don't know what it is about the 40SW round, but it is not for me.
Feels just plain weird.

chino*74
August 20, 2016, 23:27
I read somewhere that a lot of departments R trading the .40 back for 9mm. Apparently the recruits cannot hit shit with the .40.

yellowhand
August 20, 2016, 23:52
I read somewhere that a lot of departments R trading the .40 back for 9mm. Apparently the recruits cannot hit shit with the .40.

Secret Service went with the 357Sig.
Something about the recoil pattern/pulse is off.
357 Sig, 44 Mag, 357 Mag, 45ACP, all fine, but 40 SW, ugh!

Right Side Up
August 21, 2016, 00:10
Just asking a question here.....why would a .40 S&W be less accurate than other calibers?

chino*74
August 21, 2016, 00:10
It shoots fine for me, sorta like a 9mm on steroids. As far as accuracy I have no idea, I can shoot accurate enough w it. For me though it will pull down & right, maybe it's my trigger finger, grip or something, so if I aim slightly North & West I hit dead center LOL. Pretty sure that's me though more than the .40

One thing, when recruits were issued .40, especially women & inexperienced shooters they were probably intimidated by that snappy pulse / recoil (which is not really that bad) but to them I think it really messed with their confidence in shooting, anticipating recoil, pulling, jerking the trigger etc. Thus 'poor' accuracy.

yellowhand
August 21, 2016, 00:18
Just asking a question here.....why would a .40 S&W be less accurate than other calibers?

I have no idea!
Second and follow up shots for me with a 40SW is difficult.
The recoil pulse is ""different"" than the other similar calibers, at least to me.

Bawana jim
August 21, 2016, 00:18
Just asking a question here.....why would a .40 S&W be less accurate than other calibers?

I have read that some gun makers couldn't figure out how to make a good barrel for their 40s. I seem to recall Dawoo and Ruger had problems. I suspect it was getting short fat bullets to shoot straight. Rumor was for a time they had an outside barrel company build barrels.

Only other thing I heard about 40 is that they beat the pins loose in the glocks. Have no idea if it's true.

chino*74
August 21, 2016, 00:21
Ah it's just a Bren-10 with a little less attitude. :D

Right Side Up
August 21, 2016, 00:45
I have read that some gun makers couldn't figure out how to make a good barrel for their 40s. I seem to recall Dawoo and Ruger had problems. I suspect it was getting short fat bullets to shoot straight. Rumor was for a time they had an outside barrel company build barrels.

Only other thing I heard about 40 is that they beat the pins loose in the glocks. Have no idea if it's true.


My 22 torques a pretty fair amount on recoil, and I've had the locking block pin drift out some a few times.

Bawana jim
August 21, 2016, 00:50
My 22 torques a pretty fair amount on recoil, and I've had the locking block pin drift out some a few times.

Not sure what the repair is on those, do they make bigger pins? Shot IDPA a lot and and never saw any pin creep but read about it in magazines. All the Glock 40s I have shot seem to shoot straight but are snappy like a 357. Like em myself.

W.E.G.
August 21, 2016, 07:18
Don't fall in love with a Glock.

It will never love you back.

kotengu
August 21, 2016, 08:29
Don't fall in love with a Glock.

It will never love you back.

Nope, but neither will a shovel. It just works, no matter how much you abuse it.

And for that, I love my Glocks.

kotengu
August 21, 2016, 08:29
On second thought - I've broken several shovels, but I've never broken a Glock.

Bawana jim
August 21, 2016, 09:26
Glocks are the model 10 smith of autos, made to be simple to run.

richbug
August 21, 2016, 09:49
Have a 22 and 27. The 27 is scary accurate for what it is(basically a pocket pistol), minute of groundhog at 50 yards. The 22 shot well, but I put a 9mm barrel in it as it fits the games I have been shoot better.

The Para P16 I have is scary accurate as well, nothing inherently inaccurate about the 40 cartridge, maybe the lack of quality ammo though as 40 was aimed at the volume over accuracy crowd.

rowjimmy
August 21, 2016, 14:25
You mean people actually shoot Glocks?

kotengu
August 21, 2016, 15:25
You mean people actually shoot Glocks?

I know a guy that made IDPA Master with one. :wink:

rowjimmy
August 21, 2016, 16:19
I know a guy that made IDPA Master with one. :wink:

True, but making Master with the 1911 was more meaningful. The 1911 makes me think of Mike.

kotengu
August 21, 2016, 16:55
True, but making Master with the 1911 was more meaningful. The 1911 makes me think of Mike.

And I'm sure he was watching that day -

perryturner
August 21, 2016, 19:16
Got my first Glock over 20 years ago, a model 22. I liked it. Then I got a 19 and 26. Eventually one of my kids "borrowed" the 22. So I didn't shoot a .40 for years. Then I got a 23, but didn't like it and traded it off. Since then, I've had several more 19s, a 36 another 23 (same result) and a gen 4 model 21.

The .40 was no problem at first. But then after a lot of 9mm, I didn't like the different recoil impulse. .45 ACP, no problem.

scoose
August 21, 2016, 20:03
Ya know, I never understood the negative stigma many give to the glock.
I have Colts, Smiths, Paras, Kimbers, Rugers, Berettas, Springfields and of course Glocks. All have their purpose and many have a specific niche.

Folks with more money than me may want to carry their pretty $1200 Kimber through the river trout fishing, on the 4 wheeler through the mud or in the jeep at the beach. But that simple beginners gun the glock will function much better than that tight kimber in those conditions AND I don't mind nearly as much getting it dirty, getting that scratch or having it show some holster wear.

Sorry fellas I like my glocks.... accurate, dependable, simple, interchangeable barrels, parts galore, take boat loads of abuse, etc etc etc....whats not to like!?!?!?!?!

:D:D:D

Bug Tussell
August 22, 2016, 08:23
Glocks are like old hookers. They ain't much for looks but what they do they do very well.

VALMET
August 22, 2016, 11:33
Just asking a question here.....why would a .40 S&W be less accurate than other calibers?

It isn't but like other posters pointed out, follow up shots are slightly more difficult especially in the hands of LE agencies who mostly shoot when they're required to. The .40 is also pricier than the 9 and in recent years, with better bullets, powders, etc, the 9 will do practically everything the .40 will.

I've owned an older Gen2 Glock 23 for 15 years and have put nearly 10k rounds thru it without a hiccup. Practical accuracy is excellent and even more-so with a KKM stainless bbl. While I don't subscribe to the trend that the .40 is dying (with tens of thousands of LE trade-ins floating around the .40 is alive and well and will be for years to come), I will say that I def prefer shooting my 9mm and .45 Glocks over my .40

rowjimmy
August 22, 2016, 12:49
I easily have between 10 and 15k through my g17. It will still hold a decent enough group at 25 yards for combat accuracy purposes and runs 100%. The only time I've ever had an issue was with an out of spec reload or hard Russian primers ala wolf or brown bear.

VALMET
August 22, 2016, 12:55
I've put a few hundred rounds of Tula thru a few of my Glocks and it's been fine, though I don't shoot it on a reg basis. I ran 500 rounds of HOT Israeli 9mm Uzi ammo thru a Gen3 17 about 10 years ago and aside from a few hard primers it ran fine. While aesthetically I prefer a brick over any Glock, I regularly ccw them and shoot them far more than any other handguns that I own.

rowjimmy
August 22, 2016, 13:32
Oh, and to the OP....The fundamentals of shooting don't change regardless of the round you're firing. You may find the difference in recoil impulse is causing an anticipation error or screwing up your follow through, but all this is on the shooter, not the gun.

SAFN49
August 22, 2016, 15:31
I've only got 6 Glocks and none in 40 S&W. I don't like the recoil of the 40 in a Glock.

broderick
August 22, 2016, 17:22
when I last worked, I routinely got the FBI shooting reports and summaries. They were always shooting people with 40s and getting an inch of penetration (as determined in autopsy) if the person was at least wearing a jacket. many times the target would get shot 10 times and still fight. It took an AR to stop them. I concluded early on there was something whacky with that round. I chose .357 sig for my guys. YMMV.

glocks, the AKs of pistols, do have in most cases a bit of trigger overtravel and the majority of shooters will shoot low and left. May correct it on the range in practice but shooting for score against the clock will show it. YMMV.

VALMET
August 22, 2016, 17:55
An inch of penetration thru a jacket with a .40? We're the jackets Kevlar?

0302
August 22, 2016, 18:15
yanno, i shoot 357 magnum, not the watered down 357 sig, and there is no way the .40 approaches the magnum in recoil. my 12 yr old daughter shoots the g27 just fine and so do i. i will not let her shoot the magnum for a while. if ya can't handle the recoil of a fo-tay then.......👬

ICOM7800
August 22, 2016, 18:50
I've only got 6 Glocks and none in 40 S&W. I don't like the recoil of the 40 in a Glock.

Ive got 3 glocks.A 17 a 30 an a 21.Piss on 40 anything.40 S&W short and weak? The FBI adopted this round I think late 80s? Don't remember the exact time .Every punk department in the nation jumped on this fad.Now most are regretting this folly.

yellowhand
August 22, 2016, 19:14
yanno, i shoot 357 magnum, not the watered down 357 sig, and there is no way the .40 approaches the magnum in recoil. my 12 yr old daughter shoots the g27 just fine and so do i. i will not let her shoot the magnum for a while. if ya can't handle the recoil of a fo-tay then.......👬

124 grain JHP @ 1550 FPS is not a watered down 357 Mag.
just saying.:biggrin:

K. Funk
August 22, 2016, 19:15
glocks, the AKs of pistols, do have in most cases a bit of trigger overtravel and the majority of shooters will shoot low and left. May correct it on the range in practice but shooting for score against the clock will show it. YMMV.

This is what I am seeing...Low and left and scattered with the 22 and dead on in the black at 25yds off-hand with the 21. My Ruger SR-1911 also shoots dead on with no issues. I have also fired a Smith 1006 10mm recently that kept them in the black. I am not poo pooing the 22 or the .40 (yet). I just need to play with it more, which I plan to do. I will get the XD-40, the 22 and 21 out side by side and see how it goes. I was also shooting 180 gr .40's, I may get some 165's and see if there is a difference.

Great Thread....Thanks!!

krf

scoose
August 22, 2016, 19:20
Ive got 3 glocks.A 17 a 30 an a 21.Piss on 40 anything.40 S&W short and weak? The FBI adopted this round I think late 80s? Don't remember the exact time .Every punk department in the nation jumped on this fad.Now most are regretting this folly.

The 40 was designed in 1990

Love the references to 40 "Slow and Weak" :rolleyes:

If I remember right the FBI went to the 40 because the 10mm ( that they were using )was just tooo hot and the current 38's and 9's were not potent. So they shortened the 10mm to a 40.

Right Side Up
August 22, 2016, 19:21
Piss on 40 anything.40 S&W short and weak?




A 180 grain bullet at 1159 FPS ain't no weakling. :whistling:

That's over 530 foot pounds, which is more than your 17, 30, or 21.

chino*74
August 22, 2016, 19:42
What RSU said....it's not a punk round by any definition.

VALMET
August 22, 2016, 19:45
A 180 grain bullet at 1159 FPS ain't no weakling. :whistling:

That's over 530 foot pounds, which is more than your 17, 30, or 21.

Agreed. I'm not a huge .40 fan, but the "short & weak" is so cliche. There are plenty of folks dead and alive that can attest to the effectiveness of the .40, especially in a solid factory load. With regular practice, training, and bullet selection, any cartridge can be extremely effective.

rowjimmy
August 22, 2016, 22:04
This is what I am seeing...Low and left and scattered with the 22 and dead on in the black at 25yds off-hand with the 21. My Ruger SR-1911 also shoots dead on with no issues. I have also fired a Smith 1006 10mm recently that kept them in the black. I am not poo pooing the 22 or the .40 (yet). I just need to play with it more, which I plan to do. I will get the XD-40, the 22 and 21 out side by side and see how it goes. I was also shooting 180 gr .40's, I may get some 165's and see if there is a difference.

Great Thread....Thanks!!

krf

If you're shooting low and left (7 O'Cock) , that is an error caused by jerking the trigger. Now, you may not do it with your other guns, but that's likely what's happening with the 22. 6 O'Clock would be breaking your wrist down. These are all errors caused by anticipation. Until you come to love the recoil of the fotay, this problem will continue.

The over travel would have more to do with slowing down quick follow up shots (and waiting on the reset) than affecting your poi. And the Glock reset is way shorter than a stock M&P. Most Glock triggers are pretty similar to each other.

Right Side Up
August 22, 2016, 23:16
That reminds of a thread on Glocktalk where someone was shooting low and left. Claims he put "more finger in the trigger guard" and it went away. Whatever that means. Sometimes women respond to that favorably as well. :D

Bawana jim
August 22, 2016, 23:36
Not a thing wrong with 40 cal as long as you pump it up to 10mm. Glock 29......:bow:

ALL FAL
September 12, 2016, 16:49
Glocks are like old hookers. They ain't much for looks but what they do they do very well.

Hmm, Old-N-ugleeee, ok for the Glock, but I like women Bug Free and sweet. :)

spider991
September 12, 2016, 17:06
Not a thing wrong with 40 cal as long as you pump it up to 10mm. Glock 29......:bow:

Yup. ....love my glock 40, model 40 that is!!!!!:bigangel:

MACV
September 12, 2016, 21:01
124 grain JHP @ 1550 FPS is not a watered down 357 Mag.
just saying.:biggrin:

My 357 125 grn Sigs run @ 1350-1370 fps. And thats plenty hot. About 500 fpe. You must be using fast burning shotgun powder to get 1550. The pressures are probably pushing the limits of the gun. Not to mention the recoil and muzzle blast. Just sayin, be safe.

yellowhand
September 12, 2016, 21:43
My 357 125 grn Sigs run @ 1350-1370 fps. And thats plenty hot. About 500 fpe. You must be using fast burning shotgun powder to get 1550. The pressures must be pushing the limits of the gun. Not to mention the recoil and muzzle blast. Just sayin

It's maxed out!
So maxed out, I would not post the recipe.
Blast and noise will stop most shooting on a large range.:facepalm:

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=357%20SIG&Weight=All&type=Handgun

I am using bluedot.

And I'm over 5000 feet altitude.

Sea level, suspect a drop off, of 50 to 75 FPS, not tried it there though.

hagar
September 12, 2016, 22:31
The most impressive Glock is the G20, followed by the 31. The 40 calibers are crap as far as accuracy goes. The G19 is probably the handgun I would own if I could only one one. Used to carry my G26, but it has been replaced by a Kahr. The gen 4 and the newer small Glocks leave me cold, if the Gen 3 was "Glock perfection" why come out with a newer version that does not work half as well? They are good guns but not the ultimate..

I am also a big 357 Sig fan, I shot quite a few wounded and running coyotes with a 229 when I called them in AZ. I loaded for it back in 1992 when no ammo was available by using 40S&W cases (not recommended btw), but it was that or not shoot it. Like the #9 powder for my loads.

juanni
September 13, 2016, 01:07
Sorry fellas I like my glocks.... accurate, dependable, simple, interchangeable barrels, parts galore, take boat loads of abuse, etc etc etc....whats not to like!?!?!?!?!

:D:D:D

It wasn't designed 100 years ago and doesn't suffer serial jamming?? :p




.............juanni

0302
September 13, 2016, 10:23
those sig 320's are sweet