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TNAndy
July 30, 2016, 10:47
I want to get ahead of the next round of panic buying, so I'm thinking about a shotgun next. I know there are hundreds, if not thousands, of models to choose from. With this many choices it can become overwhelming and confusing, so let me narrow the search parameters a bit.

According to Gun-Deals.com, there are (as I write this):
16 sellers of .410
20 vendors of 20 ga.
6 places to buy 16 ga.
105 sources of 12 ga.
I'd want the most common, easiest to find ammo, so 12 gauge is the clear winner.

I live in the South where humidity is a constant battle, especially in the summer. On top of that, I grow a lot of tropical house plants, so the wintertime would not be much drier. Stainless steel really appeals to me, so I'd want the action and barrel to be stainless if possible. If not stainless, then something that will withstand the dampness without rusting. Plus, I just like the look of stainless. I've seen a couple of "marine" shotgun models, so maybe this is what I'm looking for.

I suspect there are few things more terrifying to a burglar than the "chuck-chick" sound of a pump action. I'd want an 18 or 20 inch barrel for home defense. I'd want a magazine or magazine plus extension to hold as many shells as possible.

However, all my other firearms are semi-automatic, so I would not rule out autoloaders. I'm not as interested in lever actions and certainly not in double or single barrel shotguns.

Another feature that appeals to me is multi-purpose firearms. If the SHTF, it sure would be nice to be able to shoot dinner. I could be mistaken, but I believe a longer barrel is an advantage for this function. I think it would be ideal if I could change barrels without having to go to a gunsmith. It could be that buying a second shotgun for hunting would be less expensive than a second barrel; I don't know.

Aesthetics is a lower priority, but if I could find all the above features with a polished walnut stock and foregrip, I believe I would have found my next purchase. After shooting the FAL, I'm a big fan of pistol grips, but I've read some reviews that say pistol grips on shotguns aren't that helpful. Opinions? It would be ideal if I could also replace the pretty stock with a synthetic stock, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Someone directed me toward the Mossberg Flex, and it has a lot of the features I like, but not all--at least not that I've found so far. Are there any other models of shotguns with interchangeable parts like a Mossberg Flex?

I appreciate any expertise you can share.

ray55classic
July 30, 2016, 11:59
12 gauge is the only way to fly , ammo is easier to get, more powerful and cheaper.
Most popular pump & auto shotguns can interchange barrels in a minute by you simply,
I'd go with a 20" cylinder bore for defense and around a 26" with screw in chokes for hunting, sporting clays/skeet.
With those 2 barrels you'd have a do it all shotgun. I've done this with a Remington 870, Winchester 1300, Mossberg 590 , Ithaca 37 and Benelli [Hk] M3 [pump/auto]
The marine Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500/590 marine model would be right up your alley.

If possible buy the shotgun with the screw choke barrel, A 20" cyl. bore barrel will be the cheaper barrel of the two to buy separate [I picked up a ex police Remington 870 20" cyl.bore for $80 used .]
Used barrels for an 870 are in the $80 to $150 range. A used Benelli M3 barrel closer to $300/$400

VALMET
July 30, 2016, 12:08
+1 for Mossberg 500/590 Marine. I wouldn't buy anything mfg'd by Remington in the past few years personally.

W.E.G.
July 30, 2016, 12:25
Don't make noises at burglars.

Be quiet, or shoot them.

Invictus77
July 30, 2016, 13:25
I suspect there are few things more terrifying to a burglar than the "chuck-chick" sound of a pump action.

Don't make noises at burglars.

Be quiet, or shoot them.

I dunno WEG...

"chuck-chick, stop where you are and lay down on the floor or you are gonna die" would take the wind out of the sails of most thieves pretty quickly I believe.

TNAndy - I love the older Wingmaster 870s in blue and they are pretty hard to get rusty if you spend a minimum of effort with an oily rag wipe down on occasion. You can pick up a really nice used one for $300-ish and cheaper if you are diligent. There are a gazillion options for barrels, grips, or any tacticool crap you might want too. Best all-around shotty ever made IMHO.

Eyeguy
July 30, 2016, 13:27
+1 for Mossberg 500/590 Marine. I wouldn't buy anything mfg'd by Remington in the past few years personally.


Yep!

W.E.G.
July 30, 2016, 15:36
Criminals who break into occupied dwellings are usually completely out of touch with reality. Don't project your actual reality into what you think they perceive.

In the meantime, you can go with the Hawk 982 (870 clone), or spend more shekels for the real thing.

They both Ssshkk-Sshkkk the same.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/Hawk%20982/Hawk%20982%20-%20right%20side_zpsiaocwwxr.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/870%20folder/old%20school%20870_zpsbsvesbac.jpg

TNAndy
July 30, 2016, 15:56
Remington marine: $841 MSRP
https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-special-purpose-marine-magnum

Mossberg mariner: $734 MSRP
http://www.mossberg.com/product/590a1-7-shot-mariner-50777/

A $107 difference speaks volumes to me--especially if the Mossberg comes recommended over the Remington. $107 is a lot of ammo.

TNAndy
July 30, 2016, 16:03
OK, a choke is used to narrow the spread of the shot, right? And a cylinder bore lets the shot go where it wants to go, right? So for hunting, I'd want a longer barrel with a screw in choke.

Both of the above shotguns have close to minimum legal length barrels, so that's a pretty much apples to apples comparison. I have not yet found the longer barrels in the marine finish. Got any pointers to them?

W.E.G.
July 30, 2016, 16:17
The longer 870 express barrel can be had cheap, and with choke tubes, and with decent black finish to protect against corrosion.

You don't need a silver space-dildo if you practice any amount of situational maintenance.

You didn't REALLY want a long-barelled silver space-dildo shotgun did you?

W.E.G.
July 30, 2016, 16:19
Most collapsible and/or folding stocks for shotguns completely suck for actual firing. That metal folder above will test the glue in your fillings.

ray55classic
July 30, 2016, 16:35
I haven't seen any other barrels than the riot gun cyl bore barrels on either brand of marine models.
If your buying new I'd get a Mossberg 500/590, simply because Remington's new quality is somewhat suspect,
BUT if buying used I'd pick an 870, the older 870's were pretty much bulletproof .
I have a 1950' model 870 that still looks decent & shoots perfectly, with no repairs that I know of.
It sits by my bed wearing a 20" police barrel , and extended magazine, I trust it ,my family's safety depends on it.
That's pretty good service for a shotgun 66years old
If any accessory is made for a shotgun it's made to fit an 870 they ARE the industry standard.

W.E.G.
July 30, 2016, 16:53
Keep in mind that the newer 870's have that damned dimpled magazine tube that prevents you from adding an extension without first carving or banging the dimples out.

If you get a Mossberg, be sure to loctite the hell out of the screw that holds the safety slider-button in place. Otherwise, that button is famous for falling off. Shitty design that is cured with glue.

bulletslap
July 30, 2016, 16:57
If you want to hunt also, buy a solid pump and get one of those combo packages that has a short barrel/long barrel set. And unless it was going to reside in a boat or near saltwater I wouldn't get hung up on stainless, nickel, or chrome.

There are a crap ton of excellent older pumps out there cheap, also that you could purchase a riot barrel for.

Also a crap ton of semi-autos.

Personally for a riot shotgun I want a 18-20 inch barrel, and not much else. I don't like them all cluttered up with stuff.

W.E.G.
July 30, 2016, 17:00
Hawk 982 is an 870 made in China.

I have one. It works great, and costs little.


https://www.classicfirearms.com/hawk-12-ga-978-pump-3inch-black-poly


5 shots at 50 yards
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/Hawk%20982/2015-11-18%20-%20target%20-%20slugs%20-%20Federal_zpsrtdune8y.jpg

bulletslap
July 30, 2016, 17:07
One other thing 3 inch shells other than for shooting steel shot are overrated, and don't get me started on the 3 1/2 shells :whistling:

TNAndy
July 30, 2016, 22:27
The longer 870 express barrel can be had cheap, and with choke tubes, and with decent black finish to protect against corrosion.

You don't need a silver space-dildo if you practice any amount of situational maintenance.

You didn't REALLY want a long-barelled silver space-dildo shotgun did you?

Whoa. Rest easy there, cowboy. :rolleyes: There's no danger of me squatting on it. :whistling:

Most collapsible and/or folding stocks for shotguns completely suck for actual firing. That metal folder above will test the glue in your fillings.

Aesthetic walnut or practical synthetic, yes; folding, definitely not. I'd just as soon keep my arm in its socket, my shoulder located right where it is, and bruising to a minimum.

The folder above makes me think AK. Despite the advantages they have, AKs just don't appeal to me at all. I don't want a shotgun with no butt, either. When I mentioned pistol grips, I meant something like this:
http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/50299-catalog.jpg
This is the Mossberg 590 Mariner, $678 MSRP.

TNAndy
July 31, 2016, 12:12
Upon further reading, the Mossberg pistol grip appears to attach instead of the buttstock, not in addition to the buttstock.

Also, regarding the 20 inch barrel version pictured above, while it has a larger magazine capacity, it may not be compatible with some, or perhaps most, of the other Mossberg barrels more suitable for hunting.

fnogger
August 01, 2016, 12:03
Upon further reading, the Mossberg pistol grip appears to attach instead of the buttstock, not in addition to the buttstock.

Also, regarding the 20 inch barrel version pictured above, while it has a larger magazine capacity, it may not be compatible with some, or perhaps most, of the other Mossberg barrels more suitable for hunting.

Correct. The pistol grip is instead of the regular stock. FWIW I don't like a PG on a Mossberg - the safety is on the top, so you have to remove your hand from the grip to operate. On the other hand, with a full stock, the safety is ambidextrous.

As to barrels and mag tube, the Mossberg uses a nut/screw attached to the barrel at the right spot to screw in to teh end of the mag tube. So for a longer mag tube, the nut has to be located further down the barrel. So not as trivial to add a mag extension as it is for the Remington et al. But it can be done - new mag tube, mag tube spring, adn barrel.

Personally I've had a Mossberg 500 since 1987, have abused the daylights out of it, and it just keeps going on. Started as a 28" barreled sporter w/ screw in chokes, I sold the barrel and wood and went "tacticool" with it in '90 and cut down a $20 pawn shop barrel to 18.5". A couple of years ago I saw some *really* nice wood for it, bought it, took off the synthetic stuff and recently replaced cut off barrel with a 20" w/ screw in chokes.

I'm set for shotguns - 20ga O/U and my 12ga Mossy. The only 3 other shotguns I'd even consider - and I have many more things on my guns to buy list before them - would be a 12ga O/U to match my 20, a Mossy 500 in 20ga, and possibly a Mossy 930 or similar if I get into 3 gun (unlikely due to equipment costs)

AFeod
August 02, 2016, 11:28
I own a late '60's A5, that thing is about as solid as it gets. My other is a 1970 870 wingmaster sitting in high gloss walnut. The smoothest pump shotgun I've ever handled. A few friends own the magnum marine version, I like the idea of a finish that is basically maint. free. Have you looked at the moss
590a1. Ive read all good things about that one. Maybe keep an eye out for and older 870p magnum, its got the wood youre looking for, and summit gun broker had some police turn ins last month for a hair over 2 bills

yellowhand
August 02, 2016, 11:44
Mossberg 500, some glue and loctite, :) or just an old Winchester Defender will both clear the hallways at 0230 dark.
If ya worried about corrosion and high humidity, or extensive field work, urban combat, a can of rust proof paint and five minutes will fix that.:)
Buck and ball and flechette rounds work well to end arguments, bring peace to the valley.
If its in your house, you have a shotgun in your hands, kill it before it murders you and yours.

mike12345
August 11, 2016, 06:09
Go big or go home. http://www.store.firebirdprecision.com/firebird-precision-tac-12-a1-heli-hunter-special-edition.html

It'll make a nice short barrel but may need some gas port work. A few wire gauge drill bits will fix that.

Conelrad
August 11, 2016, 22:07
Had it for years, shot lots and not babied, works every time, accurate.

DDG

TNAndy
August 16, 2016, 16:10
Go big or go home. http://www.store.firebirdprecision.com/firebird-precision-tac-12-a1-heli-hunter-special-edition.html

It'll make a nice short barrel but may need some gas port work. A few wire gauge drill bits will fix that.

Oh, now THAT'S cool. I sure like the idea of box fed for a home defense shotgun. But that thing looks heavy even if it is part aluminum. Alas, if I were going to spend that kind of money on one firearm, it would, without a doubt, be on a custom FAL. (I've been dreaming of an all-stainless FAL with a walnut stock, pistol grip, and handguards.) And maybe 7+1 in a pump or semi-auto is close enough to a ten shell box magazine?

Meh. I couldn't care less about having a short barrel shotgun (or rifle). If I wanted a short barrel, I'd buy another pistol. I know the Taurus Judge shoots .410 shotgun shells, and there are other revolvers that do the same thing. If I were planning to hike the Appalachian Trail, I'd want something like that in case Mr. Bear shows up wanting to share my dinner, but....

If I'm going to be on some government list, it would definitely be for a suppressor, not a SBS or SBR.

c0wb0y84
August 16, 2016, 18:04
Look at

http://www.aiptactical.com/Basic_II.php

Although I like the idea of getting a stripped receiver from them and building one, or finding an old wingmaster and making whatever changes I want.

Whatever you get put a speedfeed IV or similar stock on it. They are great.

Also if there are bears around you'd probably want something besides a .410. That would most likely just piss it off coming out of a 2 inch barrel and the bear would have to be way closer than I feel comfortable with for it to do much good.

fnogger
August 16, 2016, 20:17
Oh, now THAT'S cool. I sure like the idea of box fed for a home defense shotgun. But that thing looks heavy even if it is part aluminum. Alas, if I were going to spend that kind of money on one firearm, it would, without a doubt, be on a custom FAL. (I've been dreaming of an all-stainless FAL with a walnut stock, pistol grip, and handguards.) And maybe 7+1 in a pump or semi-auto is close enough to a ten shell box magazine?

Meh. I couldn't care less about having a short barrel shotgun (or rifle). If I wanted a short barrel, I'd buy another pistol. I know the Taurus Judge shoots .410 shotgun shells, and there are other revolvers that do the same thing. If I were planning to hike the Appalachian Trail, I'd want something like that in case Mr. Bear shows up wanting to share my dinner, but....

If I'm going to be on some government list, it would definitely be for a suppressor, not a SBS or SBR.


Don't forget the non-NFA short-barrel-but-26"-overall shotguns. Gotta start with one that left the factory with a pistol grip...

ftierson
August 16, 2016, 20:33
Criminals who break into occupied dwellings are usually completely out of touch with reality. Don't project your actual reality into what you think they perceive.


In the rush to find the perfect shotgun (assuming, of course, that a shotgun is perfect for the need), don't forget this basic truism...

Forrest

95t-100
August 17, 2016, 11:38
My first shotgun was an 870 for home defense & I love it, never had any issues even though it is a newer production 870. It came with an 18" barrel & I bought a 26" barrel threaded for chokes so I could hunt with it, it takes seconds to swap the barrels. I also replaced the black plastic furniture with an older walnut forend & a walnut stock from Numrich.

18" barrel:

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/95t-100/Shotguns/0202131103_zpslavgus4y.jpg (http://s890.photobucket.com/user/95t-100/media/Shotguns/0202131103_zpslavgus4y.jpg.html)

26" barrel:

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/95t-100/Shotguns/IMAG1232_zpsfgrybth0.jpg (http://s890.photobucket.com/user/95t-100/media/Shotguns/IMAG1232_zpsfgrybth0.jpg.html)

If you want a mag fed shotgun, you can't go wrong with a VEPR 12!

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/95t-100/Shotguns/IMAG2837_zpsslrelczs.jpg (http://s890.photobucket.com/user/95t-100/media/Shotguns/IMAG2837_zpsslrelczs.jpg.html)

richbug
August 19, 2016, 06:26
http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/50299-catalog.jpg
This is the Mossberg 590 Mariner, $678 MSRP.

I have this exact gun, your assessment of the pistol grip is correct. Pistol grips on shotguns suck, either stand alone, or attached to a butt, they seem to transfer the energy to your hand. In the case of the Mossberg, the safety becomes unreachable.

I added XS ghost ring night sights and had the barrel cut for win chokes. I have abused it unmercifully. I bought it used and put untold 1000s of rounds through it. It has been absolutely reliable except with the cheap steel based hulls, a new extractor set fixed that problem.

c0wb0y84
August 19, 2016, 17:27
I have this exact gun, your assessment of the pistol grip is correct. Pistol grips on shotguns suck, either stand alone, or attached to a butt, they seem to transfer the energy to your hand. In the case of the Mossberg, the safety becomes unreachable.


If you have a stock similar to the speedfeed 3 or 4 (pistol grip and stock incorporated together) and energy is being transferred to your hand then you aren't pulling the stock into your shoulder as you should be regardless of what shoulder stock you use. This stock is great and helps for target re-aquisition speeding up follow up shots. The only negative that I have for it is that you have to move your hand to activate the action bar release on the 870.

TNAndy
August 19, 2016, 20:35
I have this exact gun, your assessment of the pistol grip is correct. Pistol grips on shotguns suck, either stand alone, or attached to a butt, they seem to transfer the energy to your hand. In the case of the Mossberg, the safety becomes unreachable.

I added XS ghost ring night sights and had the barrel cut for win chokes. I have abused it unmercifully. I bought it used and put untold 1000s of rounds through it. It has been absolutely reliable except with the cheap steel based hulls, a new extractor set fixed that problem.

Smoky Mountains Guns & Ammo has one of these Mossbergs in stock It looks exactly like the picture above. I saw it today when I picked up my replacement XD(m).

There was another shotgun right next to it with a much longer barrel and a much shorter magazine. The finish of that one appeared to match the marine model. The only thing is, I couldn't tell for sure if it was also a Mossberg. If I can find a longer barrel and it fits over the longer magazine on the Mossberg marine model, that may shorten my list of choices dramatically.

The biggest reason I like pistol grips is the FAL has a pistol grip. Regarding the transfer of energy to the hand, I wonder how much difference there is in muzzle energy between the average .308 cartridge and the average 12 gauge shell.

I am not really interested in a shotgun with a pistol grip only and no shoulder stock. I do not anticipate shooting from the hip.

0302
August 23, 2016, 04:54
my $0.02
winchester 1300 with 18" & 20" barrels. aluminum receiver, light & corrosion resistant . rotating bolt. using the 18" barrel with slugs means you can kill anything. 28" barrel great for hunting & self defense. usually about $200 less than remmys.

TNAndy
August 25, 2016, 10:55
my $0.02
winchester 1300 with 18" & 20" barrels. aluminum receiver, light & corrosion resistant . rotating bolt. using the 18" barrel with slugs means you can kill anything. 28" barrel great for hunting & self defense. usually about $200 less than remmys.

Are the Winchester barrels reasonably easy to switch from 18"/20" to 24"/26"/whatever?

It appears the only marine models from Winchester in current production are in the SXP line. I do not see any "1300" models per se. There are now "Shadow Marine Defender", "Ultimate Marine Defender", and "Marine Defender" models. The Shadow Marine Defender has a pistol grip. The Ultimate Marine Defender has sights and a picatinny rail.

It may be that only the older shotguns are actually stainless. Some of the shotguns on gunbroker have the word "stainless" stamped on the barrel. However, according to the Winchester website, the barrels of current production shotguns are "steel". Hmmmmm.

pre1989
August 25, 2016, 23:38
I have used a Marine Tactial ..Not the imported job ..Good gun felt right and easy to handled and had the proper mag size

Skip imop imported shotguns ( other then say the AK and AR jobs ) 922r is suck to deal with ..5 round only tubes and the SXP esp suck to deal with to mod them to work with other stuff


And frankly as noted shotguns are the last thing banned in most cases ..Now say a Saiga/Veper etc a mag feed pistol griped semi auto then yes that I would get ..A pump or even a normal semi auto sported can wait ..Even in the UK you can own one of them ..Or ca or NY or etc ..

I will add to the mix the M1 super 90 a pre ban model can be had for 800-900 bucks ..holds 7+1+1 and if all you want to run is hot and heavy she is a beast and will lay down fire like no tom ...You can with skill and a good shoulder get a entire 9 rounds downrange before the first shell hits grounds ..I have come close to doing that it was a very brusing time

TNAndy
August 30, 2016, 16:42
....
And frankly as noted shotguns are the last thing banned in most cases....

I'm reasonably sure pump action and semi-auto shotguns were banned and confiscated in Australia.