PDA

View Full Version : Trigger Job Question


Bakwa352
May 31, 2016, 19:39
I want to smooth out a trigger on a 1911. Is it really worth it to buy new internal parts in order to accomplish this? In my mind polishing the existing parts (that are by no means worn out) will do the job. I maybe have 2000 rounds through her at most.
Any input from experienced 1911 hobbyist and smiths are welcome.

BUFF
June 01, 2016, 02:34
It depends on the quality of your existing parts. Who made the gun and when?

Bakwa352
June 01, 2016, 06:11
It depends on the quality of your existing parts. Who made the gun and when?

Springfield (Brazil) early 2000's. I'm the second owner but I'd be surprised if the first owner put 300 through it.

I'd normally err on the side of using the existing parts but a local smith (that I don't know very well) told me (without looking at the gun) that I needed new stuff if I wanted to do a decent trigger job.
I'm calling BS but thought there might be some on the files that could give me some more insight.

gunplumber
June 01, 2016, 07:57
What are your expectations? What is the current trigger pull weight and what do you want it to be? Does the hammer have positive, neutral or negative rake?


My experience with most people is they think a trigger job means "polish" the parts, and "polish" means apply the parts to some sort of rotary wheel.

A 1911 trigger job is obtained through precise engagement angles. Once those engagement angles are obtained, the surfaces are further honed for smoothness. The only thing I ever "polish" is the outside contour of the disconnector head. Everything else is done with honing stones, and the more I can remove myself from the equation, the better. That is, I trust a fixture to maintain a precise angle, far more than my hand.

After 25 years practice, I still see in my hand, a tendency for me to push a stone in a shallow ellipse, rather than a straight line. Knowing this, I use tools and fixtures to maintain perfectly straight lines.

If doing by hand, I try to draw the part against a stationary stone, rather than moving the stone across the part.

With that in mind, it is often easier and safer to simply replace the part, than to learn how to adjust the part well.

I find Ed Brown products to be the best bang for the buck, to that end.

notfrommt
June 01, 2016, 08:26
http://www.edbrown.com/triggercomponents.htm



Do not attempt to polish anything without a jig, as gunplumber said. Buy the Ed Brown jig and some good stones if you want to do it yourself. It comes with clear instructions that explain the process. I even polish new sears using the jig sine they are usually still rough from the factory.

If you really want to work on 1911's buy the Kuhnhausen books and read them before you do anything.

Bakwa352
June 02, 2016, 06:57
What are your expectations? What is the current trigger pull weight and what do you want it to be? Does the hammer have positive, neutral or negative rake?


My experience with most people is they think a trigger job means "polish" the parts, and "polish" means apply the parts to some sort of rotary wheel.

A 1911 trigger job is obtained through precise engagement angles. Once those engagement angles are obtained, the surfaces are further honed for smoothness. The only thing I ever "polish" is the outside contour of the disconnector head. Everything else is done with honing stones, and the more I can remove myself from the equation, the better. That is, I trust a fixture to maintain a precise angle, far more than my hand.

After 25 years practice, I still see in my hand, a tendency for me to push a stone in a shallow ellipse, rather than a straight line. Knowing this, I use tools and fixtures to maintain perfectly straight lines.

If doing by hand, I try to draw the part against a stationary stone, rather than moving the stone across the part.

With that in mind, it is often easier and safer to simply replace the part, than to learn how to adjust the part well.

I find Ed Brown products to be the best bang for the buck, to that end.

This is probably the most helpful response I've gotten on a forum before.

My expectations are as such: I just want the grittyness out of the trigger. It feels gritty and sometimes inconsistent. I actually don't even care about the weight as much. It is probably at 7ish lbs now (combat trigger weight). It wouldn't be bad to get it to 4-5lbs but that's not necessarily my priority.

Looking into Ed Brown products.

Thanks for the tips.

Bakwa352
June 02, 2016, 06:59
http://www.edbrown.com/triggercomponents.htm



Do not attempt to polish anything without a jig, as gunplumber said. Buy the Ed Brown jig and some good stones if you want to do it yourself. It comes with clear instructions that explain the process. I even polish new sears using the jig sine they are usually still rough from the factory.

If you really want to work on 1911's buy the Kuhnhausen books and read them before you do anything.

Good advice. I'll check out the Kuhnhausen books.

Thanks.

Parga
June 05, 2016, 01:52
Much of the Springfield internals are MIM and working on these parts can be hit and miss. Hammer hooks are many times out of square and by the time you get them squared and polished your thumb safety will not engage properly.
I'll tell people up front if they want the best trigger pull, then go with high quality took steel hammers, sears and disconnectors. You'll get a much better surface finish after stoning and durability is great increased

Bakwa352
June 05, 2016, 15:39
Much of the Springfield internals are MIM and working on these parts can be hit and miss. Hammer hooks are many times out of square and by the time you get them squared and polished your thumb safety will not engage properly.
I'll tell people up front if they want the best trigger pull, then go with high quality took steel hammers, sears and disconnectors. You'll get a much better surface finish after stoning and durability is great increased

I suppose this makes sense. It is a "budget grade" 1911 for all intensive purposes.
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of getting some aftermarket internals in it and having them adjusted as I see fit after the fact. More expensive, but I don't see myself getting rid of this 1911 any time soon. Might just be worth paying up on this one.

Parga
June 05, 2016, 17:18
If you're planning on keeping it then yes, high quality internals are the way to go. I use C&S internals exclusively in my shop. The consistency is there from part to part.
Unfortunate thing is now days is the fact that MIM has become standard in just about all production guns, although Colt has been using MIM sears for years

missourifalguy
June 06, 2016, 21:16
I just used the brown and white ceramic stones from brownell's. Like gunplumber said, gently rake the sear against the stone, not the stone against the sear.

my series 80 colt gold cup national match on all factory internals sets off the lyman digital gauge at 2.25-2.5lbs every time. slight variance due to how hard i pull after the hammer drops.

started around a six pound break. slowly work. also, be sure to polish the firing pin, spring and bore.. adjust the extractor tension to the proper field test of throwing charged brass while retaining empties. after that, it should be about done.

One thing to add with gunplumber's comment, adjusting the sear spring(leaf spring) helps. pulling the left and center leaf rearwards gently reduces the sear weight and disconnector weight.

that, with ball heading the disconnector really helps. I also polished the face of hammer to be more smooth when riding the firing pin retaining block radius.

Check out the 1911pro forum for more in depth information.

gunplumber
June 07, 2016, 05:13
for all intensive purposes.

I guess that's better than in tents and porpoises. (grin)