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AliYahu
April 16, 2016, 22:18
Just a heads-up for those that like 7.62 Battle Rifles - and everybody here should!
There's a bunch of Beretta BM59 Fucile Automatico Leggero parts kits hitting the distributors right now. The cheapest I've seen is Centerfire Systems at only $399! These are the 'ITAL' parts kits, from dismantled Italian rifles, and need only a barrel and receiver.
Shuff's Parkerizing modifies M1 Garand receivers to spec: http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/mag-fed-garand/
Barrels - slightly modified spec for ease of production and use - are available from Standard Parts: https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=364&idcategory=26
Compliance parts usually aren't an issue with the BM59 because most of the parts are USGI that Beretta modified. They barrels the same as a Garand, I assembled a BM59E from a kit in less than 2 hours including checking the headspace and I'd never done it before.
ETA: This PDF - which should be saved to your computer - has a LOT of info on the entire line of Beretta BM59-series rifles: http://www.stevespages.com/pdf/beretta_bm59.pdf

Eli

sharkey
April 17, 2016, 14:34
Kit $400
Bbl $225
Rcvr $400-600
Gunsmith $500-700

Total $1525- $1700

Is my cost analysis close or did I miss something?

AliYahu
April 17, 2016, 14:53
Kit $400 http://www.centerfiresystems.com/kit-bm59.aspx
Bbl $225 https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=364&idcategory=26
Rcvr $300 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=552765193
Gunsmith $500-600 http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/mag-fed-garand/

Total $1425- $1525

That's about 1/2 of what 'factory' Beretta or Beretta/SAInc guns are selling for. It's also less than a quality M14 clone costs nowadays, and is in DSA FAL territory.
You can buy complete Garands from the CMP and part them out to have essentially $0 in the receiver. Garand Guy sells receivers starting at $375 retail...

Eli

Orlando8
April 18, 2016, 05:15
Shuffs build from 4-5 years ago
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/BM59/Picture677.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/BM59/Picture677.jpg.html)

e boat
April 18, 2016, 16:05
Just ordered a BM59E parts kit from Sarco.

Will modify a USGI late M1 Garand receiver, or maybe ship it to Schuff's

From my understanding, it would be correct to build the Argentine BN59E from a USGI receiver, and not a Beretta receiver, as it was a converted surplus Garand on the BM59E.

I almost got the Ital kit, but I can get the "E" kit with everything sans receiver.

Man, now you got me thinking about getting an Ital kit too:facepalm:

AliYahu
April 18, 2016, 19:22
Just ordered a BM59E parts kit from Sarco.

Will modify a USGI late M1 Garand receiver, or maybe ship it to Schuff's

From my understanding, it would be correct to build the Argentine BN59E from a USGI receiver, and not a Beretta receiver, as it was a converted surplus Garand on the BM59E.

I almost got the Ital kit, but I can get the "E" kit with everything sans receiver.

Man, now you got me thinking about getting an Ital kit too:facepalm:

Get both! http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/special-one-of-each-of-the-2-bm59-kits-bm59002-and-bm59032.aspx

Get spare BM59E barrels for cheap while you can, I called and got 5 for $100: http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/bm59barrelsfairtogoodcondition.aspx

BM59E op rods are the same as 'Type 2' (Italian 7.62 conversion) Garands: http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/m1garand762shortoprod.aspx

Standard Parts sells a lot of BM59-specific spares: https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/viewcategories.asp?idCategory=26

As for the history, most BM59s were on remanufactured USGI receivers, Italy received thousands of them after WWII. The Argentine Garands came on ships given to them in the 1950s - they were stocked with small arms!

Although I wholeheartedly recommend sending it to Shuff for conversion, I have an original high-resolution PDF copy of the prints, even on Ledger (11X17) paper they're too small to read - but I can email a copy if you PM me your email address.

Eli

raexcct2
April 19, 2016, 03:25
Well there goes the value of my Shuff's Parkerizing BM59 I was planning on selling. All original BM59 parts mostly obtained from Reese Surplus before they closed and a Beretta Garand receiver.:cry:

xtremerange
April 19, 2016, 09:08
What about 922(r) compliance on the kits the Italians shipped to Argentina? Are a lot or most of the parts originally US made Garand as well or are they Italian made?

e boat
April 19, 2016, 11:38
Ok, tracking on this fun project!

Just ordered some Garand receiver halves to determine machining programs/tools. If I determine it's too much of a PITA, then I will send to Shuffs.

e boat
April 19, 2016, 11:40
BTW- Can someone chime in on BM59 bolt configurations/mods that are specific to this arm and different than a Garand bolt if any?

SPEEDGUNNER
April 19, 2016, 11:57
I have a late WWII receiver that has been sitting in my safe for 20 years, it might be a good candidate for a build. who has the nicest kits? Where is the best source for a .308 barrel? Does Shuff's do all the mods to the receiver and barrel to make the rifle work? How are the stocks with the kits?

raexcct2
April 19, 2016, 12:02
I have a late WWII receiver that has been sitting in my safe for 20 years, it might be a good candidate for a build. who has the nicest kits? Where is the best source for a .308 barrel? Does Shuff's do all the mods to the receiver and barrel to make the rifle work? How are the stocks with the kits?

Shuff's does all the mods to the receiver and barrel to build the kit.

He built mine back in 2011 except I had him modify mine to utilize M14 magazines. He can do the build to use regular BM59 magazines to.

AliYahu
April 19, 2016, 13:13
What about 922(r) compliance on the kits the Italians shipped to Argentina? Are a lot or most of the parts originally US made Garand as well or are they Italian made?

Most of the kits - the Argentine BM59E or Italian BM59 ITAL - are modified USGI parts. Worst case, you'll switch around some trigger parts with common USGI stuff if you're worried about it.

BTW- Can someone chime in on BM59 bolt configurations/mods that are specific to this arm and different than a Garand bolt if any?

Shuff has pictures on his 'Battle Tested' form, there's substantial material removed to allow magazine clearance. You can use a BM59 bolt in an M1, but not really the other way around.

I have a late WWII receiver that has been sitting in my safe for 20 years, it might be a good candidate for a build. who has the nicest kits? Where is the best source for a .308 barrel? Does Shuff's do all the mods to the receiver and barrel to make the rifle work? How are the stocks with the kits?

Shuff does it all, and does it well. I think the kits are all the same, from the same source, and the rifles were VG+ Italian Reserve rifles.
Standard parts makes a hybrid barrel that lets you use all BM59 parts except the band, which is a USGI-style.

Eli

e boat
April 19, 2016, 13:58
Somebody stop this madness. Just ordered am Ital BM59 kit from CF.:facepalm:

e boat
April 19, 2016, 14:08
Besides Standard Parts, any other barrel sources? And if not, can anyone vouch for the quality?

AliYahu
April 19, 2016, 16:50
Besides Standard Parts, any other barrel sources? And if not, can anyone vouch for the quality?

Sarco is supposed to have something in the works for about $50 less, but many have used the Standard Parts barrel.

Eli

raexcct2
April 19, 2016, 17:39
Besides Standard Parts, any other barrel sources? And if not, can anyone vouch for the quality?

Shuff's will modify a Criterion barrel, which he sells, to complete your project. Like AliYahu said, Shuff's does it all.

yovinny
April 20, 2016, 09:57
Are mags still $50. a pop ?

FWIW,
Last I was there, Whittakers had standard Springfield rack grade M1A's for $1199...

AliYahu
April 20, 2016, 11:27
Are mags still $50. a pop ?

FWIW,
Last I was there, Whittakers had standard Springfield rack grade M1A's for $1199...

They're $45 now - M14 mags aren't that far behind.
SAInc M1As are almost entirely cast now...

Eli

Headhunter11
April 20, 2016, 12:11
Just ordered 2 kits from CFS. Will post pics of what I get.

e boat
April 20, 2016, 12:57
Shuff's will modify a Criterion barrel, which he sells, to complete your project. Like AliYahu said, Shuff's does it all.

Just going off of what I see-

Standard Parts barrel uses a front band that is cross pinned like Garand.

Genuine BM59 uses what looks like a keyed ring that corresponds to a slot in the barrel to retain front band.

Questions-

Is the true BM59 front band retention method visible when rifle is assembled?



Does Schuff's modified Criterion use this authentic keyed style?



ETA- I have a full machine shop, if I machine the correct slot in the Standard Parts barrel, will the allocation for the cross pin be hidden?

AliYahu
April 20, 2016, 17:42
Beretta uses a snap ring of sorts, it's a rare and unique part that's easily damaged and hard to install or remove. The 'Standard Parts' part is much easier, and uses and standard pin.

Eli

Shuff
April 21, 2016, 09:17
Kit $400
Bbl $225
Rcvr $400-600
Gunsmith $500-700

Total $1525- $1700

Is my cost analysis close or did I miss something?

If you already have an M1 Garand, here's another way to go.

http://shuffsparkerizing.com/bm59-program/

Shuff
April 21, 2016, 09:18
Just going off of what I see-

Standard Parts barrel uses a front band that is cross pinned like Garand.

Genuine BM59 uses what looks like a keyed ring that corresponds to a slot in the barrel to retain front band.

Questions-

Is the true BM59 front band retention method visible when rifle is assembled?



Does Schuff's modified Criterion use this authentic keyed style?



ETA- I have a full machine shop, if I machine the correct slot in the Standard Parts barrel, will the allocation for the cross pin be hidden?

I can modify the Standard Parts barrel to use the key, $50. I can also modify a Criterion barrel to look like the 59 from the lower band forward for $150, does not include the cost of the barrel.

e boat
April 21, 2016, 10:14
I can modify the Standard Parts barrel to use the key, $50. I can also modify a Criterion barrel to look like the 59 from the lower band forward for $150, does not include the cost of the barrel.

One stop shop! So the host barrel for this service is just a 7.62 NATO 24" Criterion Garand barrel correct?

Shuff
April 21, 2016, 10:58
One stop shop! So the host barrel for this service is just a 7.62 NATO 24" Criterion Garand barrel correct?

On the BM59 program I use a Standard Parts barrel. It is 7.62 NATO/.308

Douglas Wozny
April 21, 2016, 11:36
Since we are on the subject of BM59 parts, does anyone know where I might get a paratroop tri-compensator?

e boat
April 21, 2016, 12:40
On the BM59 program I use a Standard Parts barrel. It is 7.62 NATO/.308


Thanks. I know Criterion barrels are good, and I have at least 3 that I can recall, so it was relative to having a known quantity.

That being said, if you use the SP barrel, then I know that it is good to go. :)

Shuff
April 21, 2016, 12:41
Since we are on the subject of BM59 parts, does anyone know where I might get a paratroop tri-compensator?


I just spoke to Sean Angott at The Stock Emporium, he says he has your tri-comp. http://www.thestockemporium.com/

They aren't on his site yet, just email him from his contact page and tell him you're the guy.

Oh, and Standard Parts has them too.

Shuff
April 21, 2016, 12:44
Thanks. I know Criterion barrels are good, and I have at least 3 that I can recall, so it was relative to having a known quantity.

That being said, if you use the SP barrel, then I know that it is good to go. :)

Yes, and if you wanted to use your .308 Criterion barrel I could, you'd just take off $50 on the BM59Program price.

e boat
April 21, 2016, 13:45
Just ordered a Beretta Garand receiver. Oh yeah!:)

kmurphy
April 22, 2016, 07:04
This project has me interested

dogboysdad
April 22, 2016, 15:26
http://shuffsparkerizing.com/bm59-program/

Add your Garand and $995 and you have a BM59!

ALL FAL
April 22, 2016, 18:48
Looked like a raider from Idaho. :rofl: You probably don't "Get" this comment, but do not worry, you weren't supposed to. :| 45$ Mags, Not me Not ever. :rofl:

And Texas YAHU, please do not cal a FAL Italian, EVER.

Shuff
April 22, 2016, 19:04
Looked like a raider from Idaho. :rofl: You probably don't "Get" this comment, but do not worry, you weren't supposed to. :| 45$ Mags, Not me Not ever. :rofl:

And Texas YAHU, please do not cal a FAL Italian, EVER.


I hear you on mag expense. I have a metric FAL and a few friends with inch FAL's.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=552438296

I see inch mags from $35 once in a great while to even $50. Louisville gunshow last week they were from $20 to $50 but the $20 were not impressive.

Everyone has their hang ups, some won't even own a foreign made milsurp but, here we are :)

Regarding the raider, only raider I know from Idaho is Paul Revere.

kmurphy
April 23, 2016, 18:30
Iut of curiosity, what is the current market on pre-ban BM-59s? I was looking at selling an SP1 and saving up some pennies. I can look on Gbroker, but in the collective experience what do they usually go for?

AZ Deuce
April 23, 2016, 20:51
CRAP! I bit the bullet and bought a kit and 5 mags, now to sell, beg, borrow the rest to send this to Mr Shuff....those bills can wait another week!

kwthor
April 24, 2016, 08:56
Does Sarco offer this rifle assembled?
Or am I missing something?

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/italiain-bm59---e-model.aspx

hansellhd
April 24, 2016, 10:30
Does Sarco offer this rifle assembled?
Or am I missing something?

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/italiain-bm59---e-model.aspx

That's correct, I was thinking of getting one last year myself but changed my mind. I decided i wanted a Springfield import from the 80's.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/bm59-paratroop-configuration-7-62-x-51mm.aspx

I may go up and look at them anyway. I like the Para model.

Headhunter11
April 24, 2016, 11:51
That's correct, I was thinking of getting one last year myself but changed my mind. I decided i wanted a Springfield import from the 80's.

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/bm59-paratroop-configuration-7-62-x-51mm.aspx

I may go up and look at them anyway. I like the Para model.

I don't recommend the rifles SARCO sells. Buy a kit and have Shuff put it together for you. My father bought full wood stock model and the receiver that they used was heavily pitted and in my opinion that is unacceptable on a 1500.00 rifle but apparently that is how they come. Also the rifles use a modified front mag catch, not the original BM-59 so you lose more points on authenticity there, it does however function just fine. I've enjoyed shooting it so much that I bought 2 kits and now planning on having them built on SA receivers when funds allow.

kwthor
April 24, 2016, 12:11
I don't recommend the rifles SARCO sells. Buy a kit and have Shuff put it together for you. My father bought full wood stock model and the receiver that they used was heavily pitted and in my opinion that is unacceptable on a 1500.00 rifle but apparently that is how they come. Also the rifles use a modified front mag catch, not the original BM-59 so you lose more points on authenticity there, it does however function just fine. I've enjoyed shooting it so much that I bought 2 kits and now planning on having them built on SA receivers when funds allow.

Did you get 59 or 59 E ?
Italian or Argy ?
What is the diff ?

Headhunter11
April 24, 2016, 12:29
Did you get 59 or 59 E ?
Italian or Argy ?
What is the diff ?

It was the standard BM59 with the bipod. The Argy is a pretty much a Garand with a muzzle brake and accepts 20 rnd magazines.

hansellhd
April 24, 2016, 12:52
I don't recommend the rifles SARCO sells. Buy a kit and have Shuff put it together for you. My father bought full wood stock model and the receiver that they used was heavily pitted and in my opinion that is unacceptable on a 1500.00 rifle but apparently that is how they come. Also the rifles use a modified front mag catch, not the original BM-59 so you lose more points on authenticity there, it does however function just fine. I've enjoyed shooting it so much that I bought 2 kits and now planning on having them built on SA receivers when funds allow.

Thanks for that info, I was going to drive to their shop and see one in person last year but they only had one in stock so I decided not to bother. If they had 2 or 3 of them it might be worth it. It's nice to know that at least the Gun functioned correctly.

Grand Guy does the conversion work for Sarco.

hansellhd
April 24, 2016, 13:20
Iut of curiosity, what is the current market on pre-ban BM-59s? I was looking at selling an SP1 and saving up some pennies. I can look on Gbroker, but in the collective experience what do they usually go for?

3K excellent condition. (Springfield import) That's for a 59 not a 59/62.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2tRScj-cEJs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

AliYahu
April 24, 2016, 22:20
I would only spend my money on a receiver modified by Shuff. I've seen his work, and heard too many horror stories about Sarco receivers.

Looked like a raider from Idaho. :rofl: You probably don't "Get" this comment, but do not worry, you weren't supposed to. :| 45$ Mags, Not me Not ever. :rofl:

And Texas YAHU, please do not cal a FAL Italian, EVER.

That's what the Italians called them! It's why the FN FAL is usually called 'FN FAL' instead of just 'FAL' by those that were 'in the business' before the Internet know-it-alls took over about 15 years ago.
As for magazines, have you priced out FN FAL or M14 magazines lately?

Iut of curiosity, what is the current market on pre-ban BM-59s? I was looking at selling an SP1 and saving up some pennies. I can look on Gbroker, but in the collective experience what do they usually go for?

Factory Beretta Bm62 and BM62s, along with Springfield/Beretta BM59s start around $2500 lately.

Headhunter11
April 24, 2016, 23:51
I would only spend my money on a receiver modified by Shuff. I've seen his work, and heard too many horror stories about Sarco receivers.



Yeah at the time he bought it there wasn't much info on them but this next go around I'm going with Shuff. I just need to track down a nice SA receiver and I'll be set. Also got parts kit in and the condition of the parts was overall very-good to excellent. Both my bolts were also NOS converted SA Garand bolts.

raubvogel
April 25, 2016, 05:44
Incidentally, I think Apex is also entering in the BM59 game; they too are selling a parts kit. And, I think, have the tricomp

AliYahu
April 25, 2016, 08:34
Incidentally, I think Apex is also entering in the BM59 game; they too are selling a parts kit. And, I think, have the tricomp

It appears Apex is selling parts (http://www.apexgunparts.com/italian-bm59.html), they certainly have some interesting pricing!

Eli

raexcct2
April 25, 2016, 09:19
Apex BM59 Parts kit.

http://www.apexgunparts.com/parts-kits/bm59-parts-kit-7-62nato-complete-minus-barrel-and-receiver-good.html

hansellhd
April 25, 2016, 09:52
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=538877523

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=553882430

raubvogel
April 26, 2016, 14:50
So Apex, Centerfire, and Sarco have the BM59 parts kits but only Sarco have the BM59E, right?

AliYahu
April 26, 2016, 17:26
So Apex, Centerfire, and Sarco have the BM59 parts kits but only Sarco have the BM59E, right?

Sarco has both available right now, and even has a package deal to get one of each for $795: http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/special-one-of-each-of-the-2-bm59-kits-bm59002-and-bm59032.aspx

Eli

keysort
April 26, 2016, 21:07
I wonder what's up with the barrels that Sarco has? They have the $30 and the $135 barrels. I suspect the cheaper is a cut-down argie barrel, but do y'all know if it will work with the kits with the grenade spigot and bipod?

AliYahu
April 26, 2016, 21:39
I wonder what's up with the barrels that Sarco has? They have the $30 and the $135 barrels. I suspect the cheaper is a cut-down argie barrel, but do y'all know if it will work with the kits with the grenade spigot and bipod?

That are BOTH 'cut-down Argie' BM59E-type barrels, no idea why some are $30 and others are $135. I ordered 5 of the $30 barrels - discounted to $100/5 - a while back, all were servicable. They, combined with the shortened op rod, stock, and handguard, can also be used for a 'Type 2' Garand.

Eli

keysort
April 26, 2016, 21:41
Maybe it's a matter of condition. I'm gambling on the cheaper one. I ordered my kit and extra mag from centerfire and barrel from Sarco. Seemed like the best value that way.

AliYahu
April 27, 2016, 08:49
Maybe it's a matter of condition. I'm gambling on the cheaper one. I ordered my kit and extra mag from centerfire and barrel from Sarco. Seemed like the best value that way.

The BM59 kit won't work with the BM59E barrel. This is what you need: https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=364&idcategory=26
Further info: http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/showthread.php?6433-These-are-NOT-BM59-barrels
And
http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/showthread.php?6430-BM59-vs-BM59E-barrel-question

Eli

AliYahu
April 27, 2016, 08:53
I added some info on the first post, the PDF at the link provides a ton of information on these rifles.
ETA: This PDF - which should be saved to your computer - has a LOT of info on the entire line of Beretta BM59-series rifles: http://www.stevespages.com/pdf/beretta_bm59.pdf

Eli

keysort
April 27, 2016, 14:20
Lots of good info there, thanks. I'm not an expert on the BM59 family. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like neither of Sarco's barrels are good for the ITAL kits because of different contours and lengths.

Can these barrels be modified in the same way as Garand barrels?

AliYahu
April 27, 2016, 23:30
Lots of good info there, thanks. I'm not an expert on the BM59 family. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like neither of Sarco's barrels are good for the ITAL kits because of different contours and lengths.

Can these barrels be modified in the same way as Garand barrels?

Nope. At least, not economically.

Eli

e boat
April 28, 2016, 20:28
Just got the BM59E kit from Sarco.

Some parts like gas plug and rear sight assembly don't "match" the condition of kit relevant to finish (wear), so if you choose to not refinish, perhaps tracking down some more "worn" components may be in order.

Barrel condition appears to be excellent with a 1967 SIAU PB-D-35448 markings.

Bolt is HRA

Stock looks cool, no cracks except for one in the lower forward handguard.

New gas plug provided in the kit needed .020 shaved off the outer stop ring because the compensator did not have the clearance.

Trigger assembly looks good, and fully functional.

Op rod looks really good.

Overall, very satisfied.

Womper
April 29, 2016, 13:04
I just received my kit from Centerfire and liked it so much that I decided to order another one, but they are now out. That was fast!

keysort
April 29, 2016, 21:07
I got my centerfire kit, too. The parts looks brand new. The bolt
is NOS in a vacuum pack with italian writing all over. One mag has cosmetic wear, another is beautiful. Cant wait to build this.

kmurphy
April 30, 2016, 21:56
Do the kits come with a magazine.

keysort
May 01, 2016, 06:29
Centerfire's kits do...not sure about Sarco or Apex.

Shuff
May 01, 2016, 06:45
Thanks for that info, I was going to drive to their shop and see one in person last year but they only had one in stock so I decided not to bother. If they had 2 or 3 of them it might be worth it. It's nice to know that at least the Gun functioned correctly.

Grand Guy does the conversion work for Sarco.


Garand Guy actually purchased receivers from a guy in FL who found them at some old business. The guy in FL, asked me to buy these from him about three or four years ago, same time Garand Guy started with him. The problem was that they were already modified for the M14 conversion, were heavily pitted, and he used the annealing/milling/hardening process on them which scares the heck out of me.

1. The M14 Conversion part isn't really a big deal, they would just not have the look of the BM59 in a few ways. Too much metal would have been removed in some areas but they'd still work. Some of you out there might have one. You'd, for instance, notice on the first ones that the bolt stop closed too far and entered the receiver where the bolt slammed the paddle on the bolt stop. Garand Guy put a pin in the side of the bolt stop which stuck out on the outside of the receiver to stop this.
2. The pitting issue was a HUGE problem. They looked like my face when I was 14 and blazing with acne. There were a few exceptions.
3. The annealing and hardening thing was my deal breaker.

Now though it appears that those receivers are gone and they have the drill rifle route. I sent Garand Guy one of my receivers for a pattern about two or so years ago and he shared it with FL guy. They have it almost completely deeked out. They don't have all the cuts but they have most of them. They don't use the 8mm roll pin and I don't know if they chose to use the key ways at all in the follower area but the "general" look is good.

1. They grind off the welds from the drill rifles
2. Anneal to soften the receiver
3. Machine
4. Reharden (the part that scares the heck out of me and there have been warping issues but I have no idea if they have been safety concerns). I would guess you just throw out the non conforming warps? It would be nice if Garand Guy told people his receivers were welded drill rifles but that's not going to happen. I will though because I could sell drill rifle receivers for a LOT less money if I chose to NOT tell people what they were buying. Unless I say so, my receivers are NOT drill rifle weld jobs.

My guess is now that there are more 59 parts here, Garand Guy is going to step up the pace with Sarco and instead of just supplying rifles for parts, he'll provide receivers too. It's all a very neat plan and it will work. They already have sold BM59E barrels as BM59 barrels which fooled a bunch of my customers. Will Sarco now sell BM59 receivers without telling people they were drill rifle weld jobs?

raubvogel
May 02, 2016, 11:12
Shuff, going on a tangent, how do you test a Garand receiver to make sure it is properly hardened?

Shuff
May 02, 2016, 13:04
Shuff, going on a tangent, how do you test a Garand receiver to make sure it is properly hardened?

I don't because I don't harden them. I don't change the hardness. If you were to anneal the receiver and then have them hardened again, you better have a way to do it.

cherenkov22
May 02, 2016, 16:45
Waiting for kit reviews and pics :)

Also How did the Italians do so many Garand Conversions in quantity? Did they use carbide tooling ?

Shuff
May 02, 2016, 17:00
Waiting for kit reviews and pics :)

Also How did the Italians do so many Garand Conversions in quantity? Did they use carbide tooling ?


Kit reviews? They all start from the same stuff. One supplier sold all these kits to all these different vendors. Now, some vendors picked the best parts and made those into kits and took the other parts and sold them ala carte. All sorts of business models being used.

On the Italians, it is my understanding that receivers were made in these configurations by the Italians from the get go. I am not a collecting "expert". Others will chime in but the machine markings, and lack of them, lead me to believe that the originals were purpose built. The Reese jobs of old seem to have been carbide milling jobs.

olddominion
May 02, 2016, 20:14
Shuff could you provide more info on Garand Guy's BM59 receivers.

I was interested but now may go another route. Rewelds? Bummer!

Thanks

mp
May 02, 2016, 22:11
Stuff could you provide more info on Garand Guy's BM59 receivers.

I was interested but now may go another route. Rewelds? Bummer!

Thanks

Not really rewelds. More like "de-welds." Drill rifles had the barrels spot welded on the bottom of the reciever ring/barrel. Firing pin removed, and bolt welded up. Slug welded in chamber and barrel.

If you want a super accurate representation, have Shuff machine your receiver. If you are happy with a "close enough" clone, the Garand Guy receiver will work.

Shuff
May 03, 2016, 04:51
Not really rewelds. More like "de-welds." Drill rifles had the barrels spot welded on the bottom of the reciever ring/barrel. Firing pin removed, and bolt welded up. Slug welded in chamber and barrel.

If you want a super accurate representation, have Shuff machine your receiver. If you are happy with a "close enough" clone, the Garand Guy receiver will work.

I have no problems with the Garand Guy using the drill rifles and taking off the welds IF the customer knows about it. I am a bit squeamish about taking the hardness out and then putting it back in. For more info, I'd call the Garand Guy with any of your questions. Maybe even suggest that he tell people about his BM59 receivers being drill rifles. We all know how well Garands sell when the word "weld" is in the title.

olddominion
May 03, 2016, 07:22
Not really rewelds. More like "de-welds." Drill rifles had the barrels spot welded on the bottom of the reciever ring/barrel. Firing pin removed, and bolt welded up. Slug welded in chamber and barrel.

If you want a super accurate representation, have Shuff machine your receiver. If you are happy with a "close enough" clone, the Garand Guy receiver will work.


Thank you. Spot welded sounds much better. I was thinking they were demilled
receivers.

Thanks again.

TXscout
May 03, 2016, 23:35
I've always had a thing for the BM59, since I saw one as a kid. Not sure who's this is(saved pic off the innerwebz) but would love to have one just like it:

http://i64.tinypic.com/16h9tme.jpg

AliYahu
May 04, 2016, 01:25
I've always had a thing for the BM59, since I saw one as a kid. Not sure who's this is(saved pic off the innerwebz) but would love to have one just like it:

It's straight off of Shuff's site: http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/mag-fed-garand/
The Mag fed Garand above in first photo is an M14 Mag Fed Mini-G with a 5″ BM59 tri-compensator, Standard Parts drop down BM59 style gas cylinder, Ultimak Scout rail, Dupage Trading Nutmeg laminate stock, finished in maganese parkerizing. It’s important you know this because EVERYONE calls and wants one just like it so you need to know what having one “just like it” entails. You’ll have a tough time finding the 5″ muzzle brake but the 3″ version can be had.

Eli
(still kicking myself for selling my perfect NOS 5" Tri-Comp)

raexcct2
May 04, 2016, 17:58
It's straight off of Shuff's site: http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/mag-fed-garand/


Eli
(still kicking myself for selling my perfect NOS 5" Tri-Comp)

Too bad Standard Parts LLC is out of the standard drop down gas cylinder (like BM62 with no grenade sight or bipod).

http://i64.tinypic.com/16h9tme.jpg

TXscout
May 04, 2016, 23:16
It's straight off of Shuff's site: http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/mag-fed-garand/


Eli

Well, those are good looking builds--thanks

paul fowler
May 10, 2016, 00:31
I wonder if one could modify the 20 rnd Argue FN49 mags to fit a BM59?

AliYahu
May 10, 2016, 02:02
I wonder if one could modify the 20 rnd Argue FN49 mags to fit a BM59?

I doubt it, BM59 magazines are nearly the size of BAR magazines. And now that they've hit American shores, they cost less than $50 - the lowest they've ever been.

Eli

olddominion
May 11, 2016, 16:45
Garand Guy actually purchased receivers from a guy in FL who found them at some old business. The guy in FL, asked me to buy these from him about three or four years ago, same time Garand Guy started with him. The problem was that they were already modified for the M14 conversion, were heavily pitted, and he used the annealing/milling/hardening process on them which scares the heck out of me.

1. The M14 Conversion part isn't really a big deal, they would just not have the look of the BM59 in a few ways. Too much metal would have been removed in some areas but they'd still work. Some of you out there might have one. You'd, for instance, notice on the first ones that the bolt stop closed too far and entered the receiver where the bolt slammed the paddle on the bolt stop. Garand Guy put a pin in the side of the bolt stop which stuck out on the outside of the receiver to stop this.
2. The pitting issue was a HUGE problem. They looked like my face when I was 14 and blazing with acne. There were a few exceptions.
3. The annealing and hardening thing was my deal breaker.

Now though it appears that those receivers are gone and they have the drill rifle route. I sent Garand Guy one of my receivers for a pattern about two or so years ago and he shared it with FL guy. They have it almost completely deeked out. They don't have all the cuts but they have most of them. They don't use the 8mm roll pin and I don't know if they chose to use the key ways at all in the follower area but the "general" look is good.

1. They grind off the welds from the drill rifles
2. Anneal to soften the receiver
3. Machine
4. Reharden (the part that scares the heck out of me and there have been warping issues but I have no idea if they have been safety concerns). I would guess you just throw out the non conforming warps? It would be nice if Garand Guy told people his receivers were welded drill rifles but that's not going to happen. I will though because I could sell drill rifle receivers for a LOT less money if I chose to NOT tell people what they were buying. Unless I say so, my receivers are NOT drill rifle weld jobs.

My guess is now that there are more 59 parts here, Garand Guy is going to step up the pace with Sarco and instead of just supplying rifles for parts, he'll provide receivers too. It's all a very neat plan and it will work. They already have sold BM59E barrels as BM59 barrels which fooled a bunch of my customers. Will Sarco now sell BM59 receivers without telling people they were drill rifle weld jobs?


Talked to Tony today and he states receivers are not from drill rifles.
Also stated no problems with warpage and receivers are hardened to
original spec.

For the price they look good. Any advice is welcome.

raexcct2
May 11, 2016, 17:36
Just posted my Shuff built BM59 (BM14) on the Marketplace and on Shuff's Battle Tested forum.

APEXgunparts
May 11, 2016, 19:36
I was contacted by James River Armory offering new made barrels for these kits.
Looks like they have already built BM59's on these Italian issue parts.

APEX has about 4 kits left in stock at this time, but I have another batch due in shortly.
I plan on having some of the new made barrels that are proper for these kits and the tri-compensator.

Richard

http://www.apexgunparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/1/21apr16_bm59-kit_mid01_1.jpg

Douglas Wozny
May 12, 2016, 07:33
Richard,
Is there any chance that Apex will ever get any of the detachable tri-compensators used on the paratroop model BM59?

Shuff
May 12, 2016, 16:05
What about 922(r) compliance on the kits the Italians shipped to Argentina? Are a lot or most of the parts originally US made Garand as well or are they Italian made?

Swap the trigger, if you have Italian trigger, hammer it it's Italian, done. You have three parts in those two items which gets you to ten. That's IF the bolt, oprod, trigger housing, and stock, don't already count as US.

Shuff
May 12, 2016, 16:08
I've always had a thing for the BM59, since I saw one as a kid. Not sure who's this is(saved pic off the innerwebz) but would love to have one just like it:

http://i64.tinypic.com/16h9tme.jpg

That rifle is one of mine that I made a few years ago for a customer. It is a mag fed Mini-G with American reproduction (Standard Parts) gas cylinder. The stock is a nutmeg laminate. This rifle uses M14 mags.

Shuff
May 12, 2016, 16:10
Talked to Tony today and he states receivers are not from drill rifles.
Also stated no problems with warpage and receivers are hardened to
original spec.

For the price they look good. Any advice is welcome.

Okay:whistling: I have no advice to give, you are the customer and I can only say Caveat Emptor.

kmurphy
May 12, 2016, 19:00
Just ordered a kit and hope it looks decent.

AliYahu
May 12, 2016, 20:30
Centerfire Systems (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/kit-bm59.aspx) shows them in-stock for $399.99 again...

Eli

APEXgunparts
May 13, 2016, 01:21
Richard,
Is there any chance that Apex will ever get any of the detachable tri-compensators used on the paratroop model BM59?

Interesting! I have had several inquiries for that paratroop tri-compensator.
The importer is telling me that all the material being offered is the standard Italian issue BM59.
I don't expect to see any variation from what I have now.

Richard

Near Sighted Sniper
May 13, 2016, 01:51
So Shuff,
Is there any benefit of buying an Italian kit & having you build it into a complete rifle vs sending you one of my Garand's & having you convert it to the Italian BM rifle?

And as far as authenticity goes the Italians took M1 Garand's & converted them into BM 59's & you take M1 Garand's & convert them into BM 59's, is authenticity a wash????

I'm waiting on 4 Service Grade M1's from the CMP, the wait is killing me.
How long does it take you to do this conversion?
Thanks, Mick/NSS.

AliYahu
May 13, 2016, 11:48
So Shuff,
Is there any benefit of buying an Italian kit & having you build it into a complete rifle vs sending you one of my Garand's & having you convert it to the Italian BM rifle?

And as far as authenticity goes the Italians took M1 Garand's & converted them into BM 59's & you take M1 Garand's & convert them into BM 59's, is authenticity a wash????

I'm waiting on 4 Service Grade M1's from the CMP, the wait is killing me.
How long does it take you to do this conversion?
Thanks, Mick/NSS.

I'm not Shuff, and don't speak for him, but assuming you're talking about the Shuff BM59 Program (http://shuffsparkerizing.com/bm59-program/) I believe he's using the same parts kits everybody else is. You're doing similar to what the Italians (and some other countries) did in the 1960s and 1970s, sending a complete Garand and funds in and receiving a BM59.
As far as turnaround:
Current turnaround time is 21 business days or less.
He's pretty quick but it's FIFO - and why he's oftentimes slow to respond online. I think the arrival of these kits has made for some long days!
I had Tim machine my bare Garand receiver into a BM59, to use with a BM59E kit I bought from the Garand Guy. The end result was a rifle similar to Rotor's BM59E seen in his thread, SARCO BM59 Type E Garand kit comes to life (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275989). With Tim's excellent machine work, I assembled the parts kit onto the receiver in less than 2 hours, including headspacing - my first build!
The cost and availability of these kits has never been better, get them while you can!

Eli

raubvogel
May 16, 2016, 13:55
Swap the trigger, if you have Italian trigger, hammer it it's Italian, done. You have three parts in those two items which gets you to ten. That's IF the bolt, oprod, trigger housing, and stock, don't already count as US.

Does the BM59 fall into the 922r hell? :sad:

rustypirate
May 16, 2016, 14:57
Does the BM59 fall into the 922r hell? :sad:

Really EVERY semiautomatic rifle falls into the 922r hell if it has been changed from the way it was manufactured. Mostly this only applies to imported rifles as they are the ones where a multitude of imported parts reside, but if your AR15 has a bolt and carrier made in Mexico, barrel made in China, and hand guards, butt stock, pistol grip made in Korea, then it too may fall under 922r if you start changing things up. Remember it is all about the number of FOREIGN MADE parts in your rifle.

AliYahu
May 16, 2016, 21:38
Does the BM59 fall into the 922r hell? :sad:

Really EVERY semiautomatic rifle falls into the 922r hell if it has been changed from the way it was manufactured. Mostly this only applies to imported rifles as they are the ones where a multitude of imported parts reside, but if your AR15 has a bolt and carrier made in Mexico, barrel made in China, and hand guards, butt stock, pistol grip made in Korea, then it too may fall under 922r if you start changing things up. Remember it is all about the number of FOREIGN MADE parts in your rifle.

Only if they don't meet 'sporting purposes' - which aren't defined. A wood-stocked, antique-design rifle ought to do the trick!

Eli

Shuff
May 17, 2016, 03:52
So Shuff,
Is there any benefit of buying an Italian kit & having you build it into a complete rifle vs sending you one of my Garand's & having you convert it to the Italian BM rifle?

And as far as authenticity goes the Italians took M1 Garand's & converted them into BM 59's & you take M1 Garand's & convert them into BM 59's, is authenticity a wash????

I'm waiting on 4 Service Grade M1's from the CMP, the wait is killing me.
How long does it take you to do this conversion?
Thanks, Mick/NSS.

I don't think I'm to awfully slow to respond, I think that I never got a computer update saying there was this post :mad: Everything Eli said is good, he's pretty smart for a Texan. I think my wait time could change soon. 21 business days will probably remain for all services EXCEPT the 59 or M14 conversions.

Near Sighted Sniper
May 17, 2016, 17:04
I don't think I'm to awfully slow to respond, I think that I never got a computer update saying there was this post :mad: Everything Eli said is good, he's pretty smart for a Texan. I think my wait time could change soon. 21 business days will probably remain for all services EXCEPT the 59 or M14 conversions.

Cool
Thanks for responding,I don't get the email updates to my (limited) posts either anymore.
Anyway I'm in no rush.But I'm starting to wonder if my Garands from the CMP will EVER ship.This is the longest I've ever waited for them to ship.The order was mailed out 2/16/16 didn't hit the e-store until 4/19,I know there busy but DAM!!! I hope I get a few nice ones when the wait is FINALLY over!!!

cherenkov22
May 18, 2016, 05:32
Anyone know what kind of wood these BM59 stocks are made of?

When I got my kit from Centerfire, all metal is excellent to like new - stock wood was dark and soaked/stained black-brown. After stripping, washing with solvent, boiling, steaming, and wood bleach (oxallic acid not household bleach) The wood is coming along. The upper hand guard appears to be walnut, while the buttstock is not - Looks like cherry or possibly birch, but it doesn't blotch like birch and has some decent figure in it Anyone got an educated guess?
Stock has many Beretta marks on it -Cool

I'll try to match both with a little walnut stain before finishing.

I can hardly wait for receivers.

Douglas Wozny
May 18, 2016, 08:57
Thought this might be of interest:http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?&showtopic=19236

P.I. Staker
May 18, 2016, 20:48
I bought several parts and such over a couple of years to build a BM59. Many parts came from a contact in Italy.

Barrel I got from Standard Parts, and it is an excellent product and have no complaints at all, very pleased with Standard Parts products and their service.

The receiver.........well. At the time I was looking for a receiver, Tim Shuff was having some surgery done (like I said a few years ago) and being a dumbass, could not wait. Ordered a receiver from Garand Guy. Worn receiver. All the cuts on the receiver were NOT done. These were the 8mm hole for the front mag catch, and the angle cuts on the receiver legs. This really bothered me, I should have waited for Shuff.

http://enfielditis.net/BM59_build/receiver.jpg

I took a cutoff wheel to the legs and made the mods myself.

http://enfielditis.net/BM59_build/cut_receiver.jpg

The front 8mm hole, I ended up using a threaded rod connector (#10 IIRC) 3/4th of an inch in length and the original Garand pin.

http://enfielditis.net/BM59_build/smallhole.jpg

At the time there were no stocks available, so I made my own out of a USGI birch stock. Here is what I ended up with:

http://enfielditis.net/BM59_build/DSCF5607.jpg

Here is a link to my thread elsewhere on the 'files.


http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380045

bigstick61
May 19, 2016, 22:29
I just spoke to Sean Angott at The Stock Emporium, he says he has your tri-comp. http://www.thestockemporium.com/

They aren't on his site yet, just email him from his contact page and tell him you're the guy.

Oh, and Standard Parts has them too.

In the case of Standard Parts, is it something they don't display on their site (or haven't, yet)? If so, I wonder if maybe they still have some of those Santa Fe style charger guides in stock that comes up on their site via a Google search (but has no option to buy), but doesn't appear on their BM-59 page.

AZ Deuce
May 26, 2016, 18:47
Gentlemen, I am about to start my BM59 build, however, I'm an anal detail freak, and cannot live without a stripper clip guide. I had one on order from SARCO but after 3 weeks and it never showed up I asked them what was up? They said those are out of stock and we canceled your order... well THANKS for letting ME know!

I have a friend who is a machinist who is going to reverse engineer one for me, but before I put him thru this, I wondered if any one had one for sale, either a Beretta, or Golden State Arms will do?

If there is not one for sale, would somebody be willing to loan me one (again, either Beretta, or GSA will do) so my machinist could copy it, I can give you a deposit, if you like?

Thanks - AZ Deuce

raexcct2
May 26, 2016, 21:03
You might want to look at Shuff's Battle Tested forum first. I believe someone there was working on making a stripper clip guide.

AZ Deuce
May 26, 2016, 22:19
Thanks for that, I appreciate it, but I've looked at that thread a couple weeks ago and discovered that thread was about 2 years old, so I'm still looking....but THANKS for trying.

raexcct2
May 26, 2016, 23:02
http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/showthread.php?6389-Any-intrist-in-bm59-stripper-clip-guide-part-run

Thread from March 2016 on Battle Tested forum.

bigstick61
May 27, 2016, 00:30
Gentlemen, I am about to start my BM59 build, however, I'm an anal detail freak, and cannot live without a stripper clip guide. I had one on order from SARCO but after 3 weeks and it never showed up I asked them what was up? They said those are out of stock and we canceled your order... well THANKS for letting ME know!

I have a friend who is a machinist who is going to reverse engineer one for me, but before I put him thru this, I wondered if any one had one for sale, either a Beretta, or Golden State Arms will do?

If there is not one for sale, would somebody be willing to loan me one (again, either Beretta, or GSA will do) so my machinist could copy it, I can give you a deposit, if you like?

Thanks - AZ Deuce

The Sarco ones I believe were just the charger guide for speed-loading magazines outside of the rifle.

AliYahu
May 27, 2016, 08:42
Not all BM59s had them - I read somewhere that the crazy Italians only issued 1 magazine with each rifle, and troops were to 're-load' via stripper clip!
The BM59SL (modified, but Garand appearance - similar to the BM59E kits Sarco sells) didn't come with them standard per Beretta literature.

Eli

AZ Deuce
May 27, 2016, 18:44
Gentlemen thanks for all the responses, but I'm still looking for one....

As to that link on Shuff's Parkerizing that was different link from the one I found on Google, so THANKS for that link, a lot more current.

raexcct2
May 28, 2016, 08:14
Gentlemen thanks for all the responses, but I'm still looking for one....

As to that link on Shuff's Parkerizing that was different link from the one I found on Google, so THANKS for that link, a lot more current.

No worries. I was looking to get one installed on my BM59 clone also that is why I knew there was a more current thread.

Wish you the best. Have you tried any sources in Italy? I can try and go through my old emails and try to find you the source I used years ago for BM59 parts.

AZ Deuce
May 28, 2016, 09:22
Thanks, but don't go thru all that trouble, I'll try getting on e-bay and search for bm59 parts and see what happens (not much I'b expect). Another FALfiles member PM'd me that Mountainman made him one, from some original blueprints the member had. So I have a PM out to Mountainman to see if he can do the same for me.

The guy on the Shuff's board with the pictures of the several he made, hasn't been on that site in over 2 weeks (not a good sign), but I emailed him anyways, I figure this being a holiday weekend I won't hear from either of them until next week.

On a happier note (I hope) I read on Shuff's that SARCO received their BM59 barrels 2 days ago (I think), I got one back ordered, so HOPEFULLY I'll get it. They said they were being made with the Beretta style mating area for the handguard ferule and not the pinned in Golden State/Garand pin on style.....we'll see.

If worse comes to worse my machinist friend told me he'd reverse engineer me one from the pictures that come up when you use Google Images and type in BM59 stripper clip guide. I figured all NATO ammo being standardized, that we'd get the internal dimensions off of a M1A/M14 stripper clip guide, where the stripper clip actually fits, as an actual measurement, and then work our way to the outside by guestimating the rest.

Desperate times require desperate actions!

I've also had the thought to see if I could trade one of my FALs for a Golden State Arms BM59 and put my correct parts on it's receiver. YES, I know they are mostly rewelded, I don't really care if it hasn't cracked, or blown apart by now, it isn't going to. As long as you can't tell it's rewelded from the outside - some of them look VERY well done - I don't care if the reweld is visible with the bolt back or out of the stock.

But in the end if I don't find a receiver guide, I'll just have my buddy make one for me, I know it was a Beretta offered option not to have the clip guide, but I used to own 2 REAL BM62s 30+ years ago, and to me it isn't a BM59 without the clip guide....I did mention I'm an anal retentive detail freak right? I have this nasty habit if something isn't 100% correct, I get dissatisfied with it, and end up selling or trading it off. I can't really afford to be doing that anymore.

I'm getting ready to retire in a year and a half, and am trying to own some of the stuff that I really liked 30-40 years ago when I used to have a high paying job, and thought the pay and guns would never end (MORON!). So now I'm content with just building up clones of the stuff I used to have because I can no longer afford to own the real stuff, but I'm now a shooter, not a collector, so clones, if done 100% correct, will suffice for me, and I can actually shoot them, not just hide them in the safe.

AliYahu
May 29, 2016, 10:09
Go for it! I was a bit OCD about having one, but relented after realizing that it was going to be a lot more trouble than it was worth. It also didn't hurt that I never used stripper clips with the M14 I previously had, and Beretta made this good looking thing:
http://i65.tinypic.com/65sc54.jpg

Eli

AZ Deuce
May 29, 2016, 22:30
Thanks everyone, I got one on the way, from a gentleman here on the Files, life is good again.

AZ Deuce
June 04, 2016, 10:02
Received my SARCO BM59 barrel yesterday. Times on to my '45, SA receiver around 10:00 O'clock. It has the correct Beretta milled feature for the handguard ferrule and it's locking ring, plus the barrel correctly extends past the muzzle threads, and has the five rings machined into it that fits up and under the Tri-compensator. I saw NO markings anywhere on the barrel, but my work bench is not lit as brightly as I'd like it to be.

All my front end parts fit on the barrel with ZERO issues, the gas cylinder went on about 1/3rd of the way by hand, I then put the Tri-compensator on and screwed it on by hand - NO Tools - and it pushed the gas cylinder in place. Had to tap it off that last 2/3rds with a brass hammer, and it came off the last 1/3rd by hand. I think this will make for a perfect fit of the gas cylinder with no wobble/movement.

I so far am VERY happy with this barrel, seems there are no compromises on this one, it is as close to original as one could get. I think on original Beretta BM59 barrels there are lightening cuts in the chamber area based on a few pictures I saw on Google Images. The SARCO barrel has the standard M1Garand profile.

If ordering one make sure you don't order the BM59E barrel, they are at the top of both their website, and Firearms News ad....go down a bit and you will find the correct one I think they call it the "Ital" barrel or something like that. I don't know how many they had made, I back ordered mine (took 3 lonnggg weeks), so they may have some, or they may be out. But I got mine and couldn't be happier.

Good Luck on your builds. I have Mountain man milling me a stripper clip guide for the receiver once that arrives the build will begin.

K. Funk
June 05, 2016, 09:48
You guys suck!! I need another project like I need a hole in the head. I bought a kit.

krf

Parga
June 05, 2016, 12:11
I ordered one of the E type barrels ($135 option) and a E type stock set from Sarco. The barrel might as well gauge as new with a TE of .5 The buttstock had maybe 2 very small dings and after stripping revealed great figure
http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1910&d=1465067811

I finished all the mods to the receiver, project should be done by end of the month

K. Funk
June 09, 2016, 17:21
Got my Centerfire kit. Parts look good, stock is beat up and hand guard is cracked. I'll wait for the barrel and see how it pans out.

krf

bigstick61
June 09, 2016, 17:49
Got my Centerfire kit. Parts look good, stock is beat up and hand guard is cracked. I'll wait for the barrel and see how it pans out.

krf

My wood furniture is in pretty much the same condition. Got my kit from The Stock Emporium. I've heard of Sarco kits being in the same condition. I suspect that the majority of them are like this. The metal is in much better shape by contrast, although the bipod, gas cylinder, and tricompensator have seen better days for sure.

kmurphy
June 09, 2016, 19:35
My metal looks new, wood is beat, but servicable.

dirtyrice
June 11, 2016, 20:21
Where did you order from kmurphy?

kmurphy
June 11, 2016, 22:25
Centerfire. Wish I ordered from AIM as they list a second magazine with it.

dirtyrice
June 12, 2016, 09:59
Yeah aim doesn't say if their kits are ital or argy. I've always thought the bm59 was a sweet looking rifle. But admittedly am just now learning about them.

kmurphy
June 12, 2016, 10:48
Appears that they are the Ital.

R_Lloyd
June 12, 2016, 12:09
does any body have a link to these kits on aims site?

mp
June 12, 2016, 13:29
does any body have a link to these kits on aims site?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XBM59RK

R_Lloyd
June 12, 2016, 16:44
thanks

dirtyrice
June 12, 2016, 19:13
Where can you get a normal bm59 barrel? All I see are the argentine version on sarco. Will those work? I guess i'd prefer an ital version to go with an ital kit though.

Frenchkat
June 12, 2016, 20:09
Sarco has the Ital barrel for $195.

dirtyrice
June 12, 2016, 21:34
Their site almost made me think those are u.s. made?

Frenchkat
June 13, 2016, 06:21
They are. I got into the BM59 several years ago and have an E Model I bought as a completed gun and a BM62 I built from parts I had to search around for.

Italian barrels are very rare except for the E barrels being sold by Sarco.

I guess I misread your post.

There are a few out there, but it doesn't appear anyone is giving any up. People talk about having some, but no one is letting them go.

Frenchkat
June 13, 2016, 06:34
There is a whole discussion on barrels over on Shuff's Parkering "Battle Tested" forums.

2barearms
June 13, 2016, 14:23
I have the parts from a BM59 build to trade for something AR if anyone is
interested.

Frenchkat
June 13, 2016, 18:27
What parts?

2barearms
June 13, 2016, 20:33
What parts?

Op Rod
Gas Cylinder (low profile like the BM62)
Short Muzzle Brake
Gas Plug
Stripped Bolt
Front and Rear Sights
Bolt Stop
Mag Catch/Release assembly
Spring Guide
Bipod
Wood Hand Guard

raexcct2
June 13, 2016, 21:58
Op Rod
Gas Cylinder (low profile like the BM62)
Short Muzzle Brake
Gas Plug
Stripped Bolt
Front and Rear Sights
Bolt Stop
Mag Catch/Release assembly
Spring Guide
Bipod
Wood Hand Guard
How much for the low profile (like BM62) gas block? PM or e-mail me.

2barearms
June 13, 2016, 22:08
How much for the low profile (like BM62) gas block? PM or e-mail me.

I'd like to get rid of the whole pile. Want to trade for AR stuff.

raexcct2
June 13, 2016, 22:52
I'd like to get rid of the whole pile. Want to trade for AR stuff.

The only AR stuff I have is all .308 AR DPMS pattern parts. All new NOS, Rainier Arms SS 5R 18 inch barrel, JP Enterprises handguards (midlength and extended length), AR PERFORMANCE lightweight .308 16 inch nitrided barrel, JP Enterprises enhanced .308 bolt, DPMS upper receiver, DPMS .308 bolt carrier, Fulton Armory .308 bolt and bolt carrier set, Precision Reflex low profile adjustable. 750 gas block, A2 buttstock, Rock River Arms .308 LPK, DPMS .308 LPKs, DPMS carbine and rifle length circular free floating handguards, gas tubes, AR15 midlength and carbine length A2 type handguards. .308 buffers, springs,

Also have NOS DPMS .308 carbine lower receiver assembly with Magpul CTR buttstock. Will sell this last or keep to use with a PWS .308 piston upper.

2barearms
June 14, 2016, 12:56
I will also throw in the wood for a para stock.

dirtyrice
June 23, 2016, 20:29
I got my kit in from aim today. The mags are brand friggin new, glad it included 2. The stock is in great shape, maybe just a little steaming to make it look even better.

My stock says BM 59 with PB below it. What does the PB mean?

raexcct2
June 23, 2016, 21:33
I got my kit in from aim today. The mags are brand friggin new, glad it included 2. The stock is in great shape, maybe just a little steaming to make it look even better.

My stock says BM 59 with PB below it. What does the PB mean?

Pietro Beretta

dirtyrice
June 23, 2016, 21:49
Lol yeah I feel like a dunce, I realized that after seeing beretta on the buttplate. Every single part in my kit is marked BP BM59. The only u.s. part I saw is the SA marked op-rod that looks practically unfired.

Everything else is brand new bm59. There was a little carbon on the front sling/stock ring and that was it. Stock will clean up nicely. I got one parked mag and one blued mag? The parked one has a different floor plate and slightly different construction on the spine. The blued one is marked BR BM59, the parked mag says PB BM59

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/whitearican/P_20160623_215140_zpsbccp0vwx.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/whitearican/P_20160623_215117_zpseh5aeru5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/whitearican/P_20160623_215234_zpsydjmt0f5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/whitearican/P_20160623_215259_zpsxtdrweoa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/whitearican/P_20160623_222619_zps9afhocei.jpg
I'm assuming this is my bolt.

K. Funk
June 26, 2016, 06:54
Life is good. I just picked up a donor M1 Garand at auction for $450. The barreled action will go fine with my kit and the rest of the parts will go in the spares bin. Also picked up a BM59 stock at the same auction that is better than the one in my kit for $40. Still looking for a nice hand guard.

krf

raexcct2
June 26, 2016, 07:38
$450 for a Garand is a great price. I can't even find a Garand parts kit close to that price.

rbgonoles
June 26, 2016, 10:12
Just ordered a kit from AIM:biggrin:

Is this the correct barrel to get and send with kit to Shuff?

https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=464&idcategory=47

Also, where is everyone finding Garand receivers?

Cheers

raexcct2
June 26, 2016, 10:37
Just ordered a kit from AIM:biggrin:

Is this the correct barrel to get and send with kit to Shuff?

https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=464&idcategory=47

Also, where is everyone finding Garand receivers?

Cheers

Standard Parts used to sell a BM59 builder barrel specifically for the BM59. It appears they are out. You should contact Tim Shufflin at Shuff's Parkerizing to find out which is your best option for you build.

AZ Deuce
June 26, 2016, 14:30
Your best option is to order the one from SARCO it is more correct, I've had mine for 2 weeks so they might be sold out, check out their website.

raexcct2
June 26, 2016, 14:36
Your best option is to order the one from SARCO it is more correct, I've had mine for 2 weeks so they might be sold out, check out their website.

I wish they would hurry up with their Bren L4A3 barrels. My order has been on backorder for months.:sad:

R_Lloyd
June 27, 2016, 00:43
Is anyone considering the James River Armory cast receiver( they are offering 100.00 off if you preorder) or is a converted Garand receiver the way to go?

AliYahu
June 27, 2016, 11:44
Is anyone considering the James River Armory cast receiver( they are offering 100.00 off if you preorder) or is a converted Garand receiver the way to go?

I used a receiver from Shuff to build my BM59E, it went together easily. With that said, the JRA does intrigue me at that price!

Eli

olddominion
June 27, 2016, 12:00
Is anyone considering the James River Armory cast receiver( they are offering 100.00 off if you preorder) or is a converted Garand receiver the way to go?

I am afraid of cracked heels. Shuff received my BM59E kit today.

He has an outstanding reputation.

rbgonoles
June 28, 2016, 11:32
Kit $400
Bbl $225
Rcvr $400-600
Gunsmith $500-700

Total $1525- $1700

Is my cost analysis close or did I miss something?


Here's my assessment. I bought an AIM kit. In for a penny in for a pound, so they say. So I spent the last few days researching and talked to Shuff about the options to build the BM59.

Kit: $400
Rcvr: $500
Bbl: $360 (includes $200 for barrel conv.) ($260 if you can find a Standard Parts BM59 barrel, they are out and not making any more)
gunsmith: $650 (receiver mods, assembly and Parkerizing)

I found Garand receivers listed on GB as well as Garand Guy and Riverbank Armory. The prices on GB were high. I looked at Garand Guy first. He advertised a sale for Garand "grade 2" receivers. $425 marked down to $375. However, when you put it in your cart, shipping was $60:facepalm: That type of bait and switch will not get my coin.

Shuff mentioned Riverbank Armory. They have P.B. Beretta Garand receivers for $499 and others. I liked the idea of a Beretta receiver, so that's what I ordered. (They shipped the day I ordered)

The real problem is the barrel. Per Shuff and others reporting on his forum, the Sarco advertised BM59 barrels gas port is too large. Which will require a Shuster gas plug to function without blowing off the heel.

BM59E barrels (sold by Sarco) will not work on a BM59 kit. Also, Standard Parts is not making the converted barrels. So that really leaves a Garand barrel in .308. Standard Parts was $154. Criterion barrels are about $250. So I went with Standard Parts. Shuff converts Garand barrels to BM59 for $200.

Overall this project is about $1,910 plus shipping and transfer fee. But the heart wants what the heart wants.;):fal:

GrrArgh
June 28, 2016, 14:18
Anyone know how to install the upper hand guard retainer ring without breaking it? Built my kit on a Garand Guy receiver and a Sarco barrel. It went together just fine except for the retainer ring.

gvguns
June 28, 2016, 20:44
Anyone know how to install the upper hand guard retainer ring without breaking it? Built my kit on a Garand Guy receiver and a Sarco barrel. It went together just fine except for the retainer ring.

There is a tool for this, but I've had good luck by installing the hg on the barrel without clip, insert the clip into the slot on the barrel on the shorter leg side of the clip then carefully pull around the hg while putting pressure on the clip away from the wood until you make it into the other slot.

AliYahu
June 28, 2016, 21:35
Anyone know how to install the upper hand guard retainer ring without breaking it? Built my kit on a Garand Guy receiver and a Sarco barrel. It went together just fine except for the retainer ring.

From the muzzle, not over the top - I think there's a trick with PVC pipe and a hammer.

Eli

GrrArgh
June 29, 2016, 11:29
It breaks if you try it over the top. I'll have to give the PVC pipe a try. Tried using a punch and grease and almost got it. But while with the grease it slides easier toward the groove, it also slides easily away from the groove.:facepalm:

R_Lloyd
July 02, 2016, 15:52
Received the BM59 parts kit from AIM both mags appear to be unused, the metal parts are excellent with what looks to be a fresh repark in black, and the wood isn't too bad either. They did short me a couple small parts, sent them an email. Hope their customer service is good.

rbgonoles
July 02, 2016, 17:05
Mine arrives Tuesday. Hope the wood is nice.

raubvogel
July 03, 2016, 12:48
I used a receiver from Shuff to build my BM59E, it went together easily. With that said, the JRA does intrigue me at that price!

Eli

And I myself found about that just 15 minutes ago. :facepalm:

Frenchkat
July 04, 2016, 12:42
I put one of the Sarco E kits together a couple of years ago. I thought that stock was bad.

I got my Aim kit on Friday and like everyone else that got one, I'm impressed with the metal, however I'm not happy with the stock.

Fortunately, I have a very good condition folder to use until I can do something with the Aim stock.

APEXgunparts
July 04, 2016, 13:21
In case anyone is looking for the correct issue bayonet for their Italian issued BM-59, APEX Gun Parts has them in stock:

http://www.apexgunparts.com/bm59-bayonet-w-scabbard-very-good.html

http://www.apexgunparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/9/29jun16_bm59-bayo_mid01.jpg

These are designed to mount onto the Tri-Compensator:

http://www.apexgunparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30jun16_bm59-bayo_mid.jpg

Richard

raubvogel
July 05, 2016, 09:51
Richard,

I did notice you are selling the ITAL parts kit (http://www.apexgunparts.com/bm59-parts-kit-7-62nato-complete-minus-barrel-and-receiver-good-w-downloadable-manual.html) for under $390 right now. I take it comes with one mag, right?

APEXgunparts
July 05, 2016, 15:54
Richard,

I did notice you are selling the ITAL parts kit (http://www.apexgunparts.com/bm59-parts-kit-7-62nato-complete-minus-barrel-and-receiver-good-w-downloadable-manual.html) for under $390 right now. I take it comes with one mag, right?

APEX does not usually include magazines with any kit that we sell.
There are about 10 states we couldn't sell the kit to if the magazine was included.
We handled all these kits, the ones with broken handguards, etc were used to stock the parts bins plus a few others were used to ensure we have a good supply of the parts.
The rest of the kits I am selling out, we have some other deals coming and will use the funds towards those products.
In fact, the BM-59 bayonets were a part of one of the other deals we just received, along with CETME Model L bayonets.

Richard

rbgonoles
July 05, 2016, 17:36
Got my AIM kit. Metal looks great. 2 mags appear NOS. Stock has a few dings and one small gouge in the grip area. It's covered in dark brown paint. Stripping the paint off now. Very happy with the kit.

AliYahu
July 05, 2016, 23:46
I put one of the Sarco E kits together a couple of years ago. I thought that stock was bad.

I got my Aim kit on Friday and like everyone else that got one, I'm impressed with the metal, however I'm not happy with the stock.

Fortunately, I have a very good condition folder to use until I can do something with the Aim stock.

The Stock Emporium - http://www.thestockemporium.com/stock-pricing - does BM59 conversions on Garand stocks. I had him do a 7.62 Italian birch stock to a Bm59E, it came out very nice! He can do anything from minimal conversion - I wanted mine to use standard Garand hardware - to full-spec BM59.

Eli

Headhunter11
July 06, 2016, 20:18
Had my receiver engraved at Veritas engraving before shipping it to Tim. Came out great!
https://s32.postimg.org/5dx9nxkat/IMG_2218.jpg

Womper
July 06, 2016, 20:43
I also used Veritas and I'm very happy. Good price and fast turnaround!

raexcct2
July 06, 2016, 20:54
Here's my assessment. I bought an AIM kit. In for a penny in for a pound, so they say. So I spent the last few days researching and talked to Shuff about the options to build the BM59.

Kit: $400
Rcvr: $500
Bbl: $360 (includes $200 for barrel conv.) ($260 if you can find a Standard Parts BM59 barrel, they are out and not making any more)
gunsmith: $650 (receiver mods, assembly and Parkerizing)

I found Garand receivers listed on GB as well as Garand Guy and Riverbank Armory. The prices on GB were high. I looked at Garand Guy first. He advertised a sale for Garand "grade 2" receivers. $425 marked down to $375. However, when you put it in your cart, shipping was $60:facepalm: That type of bait and switch will not get my coin.

Shuff mentioned Riverbank Armory. They have P.B. Beretta Garand receivers for $499 and others. I liked the idea of a Beretta receiver, so that's what I ordered. (They shipped the day I ordered)

The real problem is the barrel. Per Shuff and others reporting on his forum, the Sarco advertised BM59 barrels gas port is too large. Which will require a Shuster gas plug to function without blowing off the heel.

BM59E barrels (sold by Sarco) will not work on a BM59 kit. Also, Standard Parts is not making the converted barrels. So that really leaves a Garand barrel in .308. Standard Parts was $154. Criterion barrels are about $250. So I went with Standard Parts. Shuff converts Garand barrels to BM59 for $200.

Overall this project is about $1,910 plus shipping and transfer fee. But the heart wants what the heart wants.;):fal:

Makes me wish I had Shuff build mine to use the original BM59 magazines versus the M14 mags that I had him use.

Even with an NOS Beretta receiver and a Silma marked barrel, detachable para tricompensator, 4 magazines and carry case, it still sits unsold at $2050 shipped in the Marketplace.

Maybe, it's a hint that I need to sell something else.

Wish those parts kits had come in 5 years ago when I had this rifle built.:cry:

ALL FAL
July 08, 2016, 23:56
Got a bad taste in my mouth for anything Italian, even their women have No appeal.

I would like to see Tuscan Raider Sit on a bayonet though. :rofl:

P.I. Staker
August 31, 2016, 18:55
August 31 and no word from James River regarding their BM59 receivers. Still show on website for delivery late August. I preordered back in June. Sent a message to them a few days ago and no reply.

Hope this doesn't end up as another vapor waffen. Best case is they are working long hours to get the project finished.

AZ Deuce
August 31, 2016, 21:28
Yeah, I'm a bit bummed about this predicament too, been checking my spam/trash mail so I wouldn't miss the announcement. Such is the unpredictable dealings within the firearms community. I'm still hoping for the best...maybe a few more weeks, or months and years? I have a Plan B, just don't really want to cut up a historical Garand receiver, for a clone.

P.I. Staker
August 31, 2016, 21:32
Yeah, I'm a bit bummed about this predicament too, been checking my spam/trash mail so I wouldn't miss the announcement. Such is the unpredictable dealings within the firearms community. I'm still hoping for the best...maybe a few more weeks, or months and years? I have a Plan B, just don't really want to cut up a historical Garand receiver, for a clone.

Yup, that's my dilemma too. Would rather build another Garand with the receiver.

AliYahu
August 31, 2016, 23:20
August 31 and no word from James River regarding their BM59 receivers. Still show on website for delivery late August. I preordered back in June. Sent a message to them a few days ago and no reply.

Hope this doesn't end up as another vapor waffen. Best case is they are working long hours to get the project finished.

I tried calling them several times. I have a receiver modified by Shuff's, but was thinking a beater for less than $1,000 would be cool. No answering calls, no returning calls, and I recall somebody saying the photo they'd released of a pre-production sample had obvious issues.
Shuff, last I heard, was backed up from under 15 days to over 90 - but his work is superb! I'd send another to him without hesitation, BM59s are historic rifles and there are millions of Garands out there.

Eli

P.I. Staker
September 02, 2016, 15:51
Got hold of someone on the phone. They said they are working on finishing up the receivers and it should not be too much longer.

olddominion
September 02, 2016, 18:52
Just need barrels now.

Shuff built a BM59E for me and it works great!

Orlando8
September 02, 2016, 19:25
From the muzzle, not over the top - I think there's a trick with PVC pipe and a hammer.

Eli

Rear handguard clip is installed over the top

BM59
September 02, 2016, 19:34
Tim built for me a BM14 with BM59 looks and recently a BM59 from a centerfire kit. Outstanding work and customer service. I used one of the Sarco barrels and he mentioned the slightly oversized port - I just ordered a Schuster valve, which I believe it is a good idea regardless. The BM59 is the best ever version of the Garand, and as such should sit in the hall of fame of battle rifles with the FAL and the Galil (You would have guessed I said so).

rbgonoles
September 09, 2016, 17:49
I would like to thank this thread and Shuff for this....

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag403/burker2525/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshqggh7yj.jpeg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/burker2525/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshqggh7yj.jpeg.html)

Headhunter11
September 09, 2016, 18:35
Same here^. Tim does excellent work.
https://s18.postimg.org/5ayd1mk7d/IMG_2488.jpg
https://s18.postimg.org/f9nx1uj0p/IMG_2493.jpg
https://s18.postimg.org/gpzfjzlxl/IMG_2496.jpg

rbgonoles
September 09, 2016, 18:42
Beautiful. How did you do your stock?

Headhunter11
September 09, 2016, 18:51
Beautiful. How did you do your stock?

Didn't touch it. Just rubbed some oil on it. I love off the rack rifles so I didn't want to mess with.

rbgonoles
September 09, 2016, 19:04
Mine was covered in brown paint, so I have to strip and apply BLO.

ServiceRifle
September 20, 2016, 17:22
AIM has the kits with 2 mags back in stock for $369 shipped

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XBM59RK

AliYahu
September 21, 2016, 00:29
AIM has the kits with 2 mags back in stock for $369 shipped

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XBM59RK

Those are missing small parts! I plan on buying a couple, though.

Eli

Eyeguy
September 21, 2016, 00:55
Centerfire Systems is still showing complete kits at $399 and kits with the same missing 3 parts for $369. These come with only one mag though. Mine arrived last week. Stock is a converted SA in good condition with beautiful grain. Handguard was rough but usable; chip missing from the ferrule collar and around one side of the rear band

rbgonoles
September 21, 2016, 07:52
Those are missing small parts! I plan on buying a couple, though.

Eli

Here are the parts missing. Think SP is the only place that has them.

https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/shownewarrivals.asp

kwthor
September 21, 2016, 08:12
Kit does not include Receiver or Barrel. It also does not include Lower Sling Swivel Screw and Retainer, Spacer and Upper Butt Pad Screw.

These are the missing parts.
I don't see them on the SP web site ??

AliYahu
September 21, 2016, 10:03
Here are the parts missing. Think SP is the only place that has them.

https://www.standardpartsllc.com/productcart/pc/shownewarrivals.asp

Not only do they have the missing parts - likely NOS - those bayonets are about 1/2 the cost of most!

Eli

rbgonoles
September 21, 2016, 11:41
Kit does not include Receiver or Barrel. It also does not include Lower Sling Swivel Screw and Retainer, Spacer and Upper Butt Pad Screw.

These are the missing parts.
I don't see them on the SP web site ??


Parts are there, nomenclature is different.

Lower Sling Swivel Screw = "BM59 Long B-Plate Screw"
Retainer = "BM59 Retainer, R-Swivel Nut"
Spacer = "BM59 Nut, Pivot for Swivel"
Upper Butt Pad Screw = "BM59 Short B-Plate Screw"

kwthor
September 21, 2016, 22:31
Parts are there, nomenclature is different.

Lower Sling Swivel Screw = "BM59 Long B-Plate Screw"
Retainer = "BM59 Retainer, R-Swivel Nut"
Spacer = "BM59 Nut, Pivot for Swivel"
Upper Butt Pad Screw = "BM59 Short B-Plate Screw"

Thank you!

thisismyboomstick
September 26, 2016, 01:03
Anyone heard if sarco is going to do another run of barrels?

AliYahu
September 26, 2016, 09:14
Anyone heard if sarco is going to do another run of barrels?

From what I understand, they're having issues with their barrel supplier(s). There's been a couple of rumors about somebody else making barrels, and Shuff can cut one down from a 7.62 Garand barrel.

Eli

Eyeguy
September 26, 2016, 16:18
AIM sold out again.

ServiceRifle
September 27, 2016, 18:56
My AIM kit came today. The mags are virtually new. The bolt is in a sealed vapor factory bag, all the small parts are in great condition. Stock has a few minor dings that should steam right out. Buttpad is virtually new. I would love to have the receiver that these parts were taken from.

rbgonoles
September 27, 2016, 19:00
You and me both. Get a nice Garand reciever and a barrel and send to Shuff. You won't regret it.

BM59
September 28, 2016, 15:26
Only APEX seems to have kits in stock but with no mags. Garand receivers prices on GB have gone up since these BM59 were decommissioned from army reserves and kits were made available. It seems that many got the BM59 bug. Meanwhile, original rifles modified semiauto sell in Italy for a little more than $1200....

http://http://www.nuovajager.it/scheda.asp?id=10453045201545154548 (http://www.nuovajager.it/scheda.asp?id=10453045201545154548)

Eyeguy
September 28, 2016, 15:53
Centerfire still has their partial kits with one mag in stock and on sale at $339. Kits are missing 3 small parts and those are available at Standard Parts LLC for $36 shipped. (See post from Rbgonoles in this thread for missing part identification)

I picked up a complete kit from Centerfire 2 weeks ago. All metal in great shape, bolt was new in packaging and the stock was a modified SA in walnut that was beautiful once stripped and reoiled.

BM59
September 28, 2016, 17:36
AIM kits back on stock.

AliYahu
September 28, 2016, 23:49
AIM kits back on stock.

AIM shows 'SOLD OUT' on their page - I might've gotten the last 2.
Centerfire's only have 1 magazine, and are missing pats.
Standard Parts is back-ordered for the small parts!

Eli

tlock
September 29, 2016, 19:38
Not only do they have the missing parts - likely NOS - those bayonets are about 1/2 the cost of most!

Eli

Got bayonet from Standard today, every bit as good as Apex's offering. Blade unsharpened, scabbard very good condition, I'm happy thanks for heads up

AliYahu
September 29, 2016, 23:32
I'm told The Stock Emporium - http://www.thestockemporium.com/ - has some kits available.

Got bayonet from Standard today, every bit as good as Apex's offering. Blade unsharpened, scabbard very good condition, I'm happy thanks for heads up

Standard Parts has a great reputation, always glad to hear it's earned!

Eli

dogboysdad
September 30, 2016, 01:06
I spoke with Sean at thestockemporium.com H still has some kits available. I bought one from him earlier this year. It was in great condition. I handpicked a great stock. I haven't made it out to see Tim Shufflin yet.

dogboysdad
September 30, 2016, 01:11
I also used Veritas and I'm very happy. Good price and fast turnaround!

Can I ask what this cost you?

ServiceRifle
October 01, 2016, 13:08
I bought a 2nd KIT from AIM a couple of days ago. Its in transit to me now.

Just figured out I really don't need it for what I want to do. So if anyone wants to buy it from me for what I paid for it - $370 shipped, I will sell it for that price and I will pay for the shipping.

You can email or PM me and when it gets here early next week I will contact you and we can work out the payment/shipping details.

So basically a recent AIM kit (complete as they described it with two 20rd mags) for $370 shipped.

Item is listed in the Marketplace and currently is SPF

Womper
October 01, 2016, 22:28
Can I ask what this cost you?

If I'm remembering correctly, it was $87? I'll look for my receipt when I get home to confirm. I think you can usually expect it to be right at $100.

BM59
October 08, 2016, 09:10
I.O. plans to sell assembled BM59s:

http://http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/)

the question is quality of those builds - fine tuning a BM59 is not a straightforward task. Hopefully this will not be similar to what CAI did in recent past with their Golanis.

hansellhd
October 08, 2016, 16:33
I.O. plans to sell assembled BM59s:

http://http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/)

the question is quality of those builds - fine tuning a BM59 is not a straightforward task. Hopefully this will not be similar to what CAI did in recent past with their Golanis.


Forget that, This JRA looks nice.

https://www.classicfirearms.com/bm-59-semi-auto-rifle-308-caliber

Eyeguy
October 08, 2016, 18:54
Forget that, This JRA looks nice.

https://www.classicfirearms.com/bm-59-semi-auto-rifle-308-caliber

Nice find Dave. Had not seen the classic offering.

Thanks

AliYahu
October 08, 2016, 21:58
I.O. plans to sell assembled BM59s:

http://http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/)

the question is quality of those builds - fine tuning a BM59 is not a straightforward task. Hopefully this will not be similar to what CAI did in recent past with their Golanis.

The BM59 has the same (extremely hard to duplicate) bolt geometry of the M1 (and M14), there have been lots of M1 and M14 receivers made but very few that could be called good or successful. I'm not optimistic.

Forget that, This JRA looks nice.

https://www.classicfirearms.com/bm-59-semi-auto-rifle-308-caliber

JRA receivers are vaporware! Classic is likely full of shit for saying the rifles are the 'one of the softest shooting rifles I have ever held' - and the reviews are bolshevik. Nobody's seen any JRA BM59 receivers except a photo or two of a pre-production sample that was obviously out-of-spec.

Eli

olddominion
October 08, 2016, 23:04
Yeah, the receivers are advertised as G.I. M1 Garand but The million dollar question is, Who did the machine work?

BM59
October 10, 2016, 13:06
I just took my chances and placed an order with Classic. They told me the receivers are M1 garand modified by JRA, stocks are new or like new and rifle is parkerized. Will let you know when I receive it.....

kwthor
October 10, 2016, 14:31
I just took my chances and placed an order with Classic. They told me the receivers are M1 garand modified by JRA, stocks are new or like new and rifle is parkerized. Will let you know when I receive it.....

Do you know what barrel JRA is using on these ?

def90
October 10, 2016, 15:23
I.O. plans to sell assembled BM59s:

http://http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/07/beretta-bm59-de-mil-rpg-2-launcher-valkyrie-revolvers-io-writers-event-2016/)

the question is quality of those builds - fine tuning a BM59 is not a straightforward task. Hopefully this will not be similar to what CAI did in recent past with their Golanis.

Based on the quality of their AKs I would stay as far away as possible from anything they put their fingers on. IO makes Century look like equal competitors to Izhmash..

BM59
October 10, 2016, 16:33
Do you know what barrel JRA is using on these ?

Classic told me newly US made ones.

hansellhd
October 11, 2016, 12:12
Based on the quality of their AKs I would stay as far away as possible from anything they put their fingers on. IO makes Century look like equal competitors to Izhmash..

+1

Yes avoid IO at all cost.

James River makes a very nice M14 clone, (way better than a Springfield M1a) if they can do that I see no problem whatsoever with the BM59 clone.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/DSCN3323_zpsv63sk6w9.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/DSCN3323_zpsv63sk6w9.jpg.html)

hansellhd
October 11, 2016, 12:17
I just took my chances and placed an order with Classic. They told me the receivers are M1 garand modified by JRA, stocks are new or like new and rifle is parkerized. Will let you know when I receive it.....

Let us know how you make out, If you like it I may order one for myself.
I like the Idea of just ordering a complete Rifle and not having to bother with getting parts/builders together then waiting for weeks/months to get the final product.
I have no patience for that. If others do that's wonderful, go for it.:D

BM59
October 11, 2016, 20:50
I actually did that too - two very nice Bm59 builds by Tim Shufflin, one accepting M14 mags and a standard one, thus I have a good reference to evaluate the JRA. Do not get me wrong, I like to buy assembled rifles too, and they are offen cheaper. However some quality builds are masterpieces, second only to original factory rifles (which I noticed you have quite a few of ;) ).
Will keep you posted on the JRA.

kwthor
October 14, 2016, 11:20
I actually did that too - two very nice Bm59 builds by Tim Shufflin, one accepting M14 mags and a standard one, thus I have a good reference to evaluate the JRA. Do not get me wrong, I like to buy assembled rifles too, and they are offen cheaper. However some quality builds are masterpieces, second only to original factory rifles (which I noticed you have quite a few of ;) ).
Will keep you posted on the JRA.

Any update on the one made by JRA ?

Parga
October 14, 2016, 15:11
Just finished one for myself when I had bits of down time in the shop. I had a re-weld receiver in the shop so I thought I'd experiment.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/RMPSTRAT/BM59E1.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/RMPSTRAT/media/BM59E1.jpg.html)
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/RMPSTRAT/BM59E_1.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/RMPSTRAT/media/BM59E_1.jpg.html)

BM59
October 14, 2016, 18:01
just picked up JRA. Great finish and stock. Springfield receiver looks excellent. Tested magazine fit, feeding and extraction - all ok. Soon to the range for live fire test. :biggrin:

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/para1962/D43A2F90-2DFB-4EE7-BD6B-F426DF978CB4_zpsaoaprzho.jpg[/URL][/IMG]

ServiceRifle
October 14, 2016, 18:45
I got one from Classic yesterday too - just like the one in the photo above - plastic case and everything.

25 years ago I paid $1500 for an Italian BM59. In todays economy this is a bargain. The BM59 parts will not last forever. If you want one you should bite the bullet now. You won't be able to find one after November 8 - and you won't be able to buy one a year from now.

rbgonoles
October 14, 2016, 19:04
just picked up JRA. Great finish and stock. Springfield receiver looks excellent. Tested magazine fit, feeding and extraction - all ok. Soon to the range for live fire test. :biggrin:

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/para1962/D43A2F90-2DFB-4EE7-BD6B-F426DF978CB4_zpsaoaprzho.jpg[/URL][/IMG]

More pictures!!!!

hansellhd
October 14, 2016, 23:06
Very nice, I just ordered one for myself. :) James River does nice work.

I also ordered up a BM59 Bayonet to go with it. I figure once the parts kits dry up that will be the end of these things,

ServiceRifle
October 15, 2016, 07:28
Classic Firearms is OUT OF STOCK on the JRA BM59s.

They basically sold 6 in the last 12 hours.

rbgonoles
October 15, 2016, 08:19
Classic Firearms is OUT OF STOCK on the JRA BM59s.

They basically sold 6 in the last 12 hours.

Have a feeling these were the last by JRA on original Garand receivers. Next lot will likely be on JRA receivers. Not that it's a bad thing. I have a JRA M14 that's sweet.

ServiceRifle
October 15, 2016, 08:34
Have a feeling these were the last by JRA on original Garand receivers. Next lot will likely be on JRA receivers. Not that it's a bad thing. I have a JRA M14 that's sweet.


I have a feeling you're right - that's why I went bought the 6th and last one they had this morning.

BM59
October 15, 2016, 08:49
I am not surprised they all went overnight. When I started looking for a BM59 clone two years ago, the only good option was a custom BM14 from Tim Shufflin, with M14 mags. He did a great job but price tag was nearly twice than this.

I am glad to see the BM59 taking her well deserved place in the battle rifle community. It's a strange feeling to hold one again 35 years later... and somehow comforting to know that I can enjoy her at the range but I do not need to haul her in ruck marches.:)

I also bought the bayonet and scabbard on Standard Parts, excellent grade and very good price.

I will have to wait a couple of weeks before a range test. Curious to see how the barrel performs and if they got the right gas settings, or if I have to put a Schuster plug on it like I did for the one with the Sarco barrel.

hansellhd
October 15, 2016, 09:37
I have a feeling you're right - that's why I went bought the 6th and last one they had this morning.

So you purchased two of them?

ServiceRifle
October 15, 2016, 10:16
So you purchased two of them?


A small hedge against the economic collapse that is bound to come if "crooked" Hillary gets elected. The Justice system is perverted and the political elites think they have a perpetual oligarchy. Money is soon going to be worthless - I'd buy 10 if they had them and IF I had the money.

hansellhd
October 15, 2016, 14:02
A small hedge against the economic collapse that is bound to come if "crooked" Hillary gets elected. The Justice system is perverted and the political elites think they have a perpetual oligarchy. Money is soon going to be worthless - I'd buy 10 if they had them and IF I had the money.

Well nothing wrong with that, I've been investing in collectible Firearms for years.:D

0007
October 15, 2016, 21:27
FWIW I took mine to a shoot in SC. Never had put a round in it let alone through it. First round down range without doing any sighting it I hit a snack-size baggie(~2"X6" sitting on a camera tripod) of Tannerite at ~80 yards. Very soft recoil. I put a female friend on it and she was hitting 10" and 8" gongs at 100 yards after about four rounds. I think it's a keeper...

olddominion
October 17, 2016, 19:59
just picked up JRA. Great finish and stock. Springfield receiver looks excellent. Tested magazine fit, feeding and extraction - all ok. Soon to the range for live fire test. :biggrin:

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/para1962/D43A2F90-2DFB-4EE7-BD6B-F426DF978CB4_zpsaoaprzho.jpg[/URL][/IMG]


Nice rifle. Was there a modification done to keep bolt hold open pin from walking
out?

Also if you could post pics of JRA next to Shuff build so we could see machining
differences that would be much appreciated.

Cheers

BM59
October 17, 2016, 21:03
Sure - will do in a couple of weeks when I am back from a business trip.

Parga
October 20, 2016, 02:17
This is what I did to mine to keep the pin from walking

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j102/RMPSTRAT/20160620_183652.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/RMPSTRAT/media/20160620_183652.jpg.html)

kwthor
October 20, 2016, 08:10
This is what I did to mine to keep the pin from walking

http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1918&d=1466492433

What ??

AliYahu
October 20, 2016, 11:17
What ??

Some guys have drilled and tapped the bolt hold-open for a set screw to keep the pin from walking out.
Another guy notched the pin and used an E-clip for an AR-15 trap door pin.
I used a different stock.

Eli

Parga
October 21, 2016, 00:27
What ??

Drill and tap at 4-40, a dab of loc tite and it's good to go

ServiceRifle
October 21, 2016, 11:56
Drill and tap at 4-40, a dab of loc tite and it's good to go

This seems to defeat the original design of the BM59 - which has the bolt hold open device pivoting on the long retention pin. By locking the pin to the BHO device you are changing how the unit functions. You are now making the BHO device and retention pin one unit - and the combined assembly pivoting on the two receiver protrusions holding the pin at either end.

I have no doubt that the pin will be retained - but in the long run its going to be at the expense of BHO functioning - as the spring now has to move the assembly against the receiver. How long the spring can do that remains to be seen. How long the receiver can do that also remains to be seen

Parga
October 21, 2016, 14:18
It actually works quite well and the only difference now is that the pin doesn't walk

ServiceRifle
October 21, 2016, 14:47
SARCO has a sale on Italian BM59 20rd mags - as low as $25 each if you buy 10 or more - WITH free shipping.

Eyeguy
October 21, 2016, 15:51
Curious about the mix of stocks that have shown up in the kits from AIM, Standard and others. Heard mixed reviews. I've purchased 2 kits to date and the first included a beautiful SA takeoff. Has anyone else gotten one of these? I did a little steaming and added oil. Very pleased with the results.

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b435/MHagin57/FalFiles/IMG_2473_zpsi0yotshs.jpg (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/MHagin57/media/FalFiles/IMG_2473_zpsi0yotshs.jpg.html)

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b435/MHagin57/FalFiles/IMG_2548_zpsxnuvbt7f.jpg (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/MHagin57/media/FalFiles/IMG_2548_zpsxnuvbt7f.jpg.html)

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b435/MHagin57/FalFiles/IMG_2549_zps4mvvd30g.jpg (http://s1043.photobucket.com/user/MHagin57/media/FalFiles/IMG_2549_zps4mvvd30g.jpg.html)

hansellhd
October 21, 2016, 16:58
James River BM59 from Classic.

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3672_zpsr8vqfra1.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3672_zpsr8vqfra1.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3674_zpsj3xtj98t.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3674_zpsj3xtj98t.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3660_zpskhekvibp.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3660_zpskhekvibp.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3657_zpsnbcdl4vq.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3657_zpsnbcdl4vq.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3656_zpsk1b7hkkw.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3656_zpsk1b7hkkw.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3661_zpsgkuy72ou.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3661_zpsgkuy72ou.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3663_zpsmyuuszif.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3663_zpsmyuuszif.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3670_zpstp82km7q.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3670_zpstp82km7q.jpg.html)

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd011/DSCN3664_zpsr3fcjzgf.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd011/DSCN3664_zpsr3fcjzgf.jpg.html)

I plan on shooting it sometime next week.:]

Eyeguy
October 21, 2016, 17:04
Very nice sir. Looking forward to your range report.

cherenkov22
October 21, 2016, 18:59
My JRA Receiver came home today! It looks great and hand fitting parts it looks like its going to work great. I did a review with photos at Ar15.com
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1860218_.html&page=12&anc=62605249#i62605249

kwthor
October 21, 2016, 20:36
Anyone know how many of these kits came in?
It looks like JRA and Sarco are both working on making/getting receivers.
There may be others.

Is kit, receiver, barrel and builder the way to go or just get the assembled rifle?

olddominion
October 21, 2016, 20:45
Some guys have drilled and tapped the bolt hold-open for a set screw to keep the pin from walking out.
Another guy notched the pin and used an E-clip for an AR-15 trap door pin.
I used a different stock.

Eli

What type of stock? Mine looks like it was drilled and had a roll pin installed.

Thanks

olddominion
October 21, 2016, 20:52
Anyone know how many of these kits came in?
It looks like JRA and Sarco are both working on making/getting receivers.
There may be others.

Is kit, receiver, barrel and builder the way to go or just get the assembled rifle?


Depends on what you want. If your looking for a forged receiver then having
rifle built is the way to go. Also you can have a Criterion barrel machined to
BM59 specs.

Shuff does great work but you have a 90 day wait.

Cheers

ServiceRifle
October 22, 2016, 12:27
Picked up my JRA BM59 today. Beautifully built rifle on Oct 41 Springfield Armory receiver. Beautiful BM59 marked stock. Count yourself lucky if you bought one of these built on Garand receivers

hansellhd
October 22, 2016, 16:07
Picked up my JRA BM59 today. Beautifully built rifle on Oct 41 Springfield Armory receiver. Beautiful BM59 marked stock. Count yourself lucky if you bought one of these built on Garand receivers

You know it. :whiskey:

http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a443/hansellhd/hansellhd012/DSCN3687_zpsajsfq0om.jpg (http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/hansellhd/media/hansellhd012/DSCN3687_zpsajsfq0om.jpg.html)

AliYahu
October 23, 2016, 07:38
This seems to defeat the original design of the BM59 - which has the bolt hold open device pivoting on the long retention pin. By locking the pin to the BHO device you are changing how the unit functions. You are now making the BHO device and retention pin one unit - and the combined assembly pivoting on the two receiver protrusions holding the pin at either end.

I have no doubt that the pin will be retained - but in the long run its going to be at the expense of BHO functioning - as the spring now has to move the assembly against the receiver. How long the spring can do that remains to be seen. How long the receiver can do that also remains to be seen

The problem is the pin is retained by the selector parts, which are no longer on your semi-auto. If you don't retain the pin, it'll quickly walk out and send parts flying!

What type of stock? Mine looks like it was drilled and had a roll pin installed.

Thanks

I had Sean at The Stock Emporium (http://www.thestockemporium.com/) modify a 'Tipo II' stock I bought here on the 'Files. It now uses standard Garand butt parts, and the pin is retained like new.

Eli

ServiceRifle
October 23, 2016, 08:02
The problem is the pin is retained by the selector parts, which are no longer on your semi-auto. If you don't retain the pin, it'll quickly walk out and send parts flying!



I had Sean at The Stock Emporium (http://www.thestockemporium.com/) modify a 'Tipo II' stock I bought here on the 'Files. It now uses standard Garand butt parts, and the pin is retained like new.

Eli



I am not doubting that the pin walks - I'm only saying that by locking the BHO to the pin with a set screw you are creating a whole different set of problems with the functioning of the rifle. The BHO was designed as a long tubular sleeve to move smoothly around the long pin that holds it in place. Now when locked together its moving at two small receiver points (the little receiver protrusions at either end of the pin). The mass of the BHO has been increased - and the focus of the movement has been transfered to the receiver and the two little holes. Whether the spring is strong enough to overcome this increased mass remains to be seen. But I can assure you that there will be increased wear to the receiver as the pin moves back and forth with the BHO device.

BM59
October 23, 2016, 08:19
My JRA Receiver came home today! It looks great and hand fitting parts it looks like its going to work great. I did a review with photos at Ar15.com
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1860218_.html&page=12&anc=62605249#i62605249

Are these marked BM59? Would sadly be a no-no in ban states....

ServiceRifle
October 23, 2016, 08:51
Are these marked BM59? Would sadly be a no-no in ban states....

If you look at the left side of the receiver at the heel you will see the following marking

James River Armory
Burgaw, NC
BM-59 Cal 7.62 NATO

The original M1 Garand markings remain unaltered on the heel of the rifle.

I think the mystery is why they are there in the first place. If the receiver were purpose built from the ground up as a BM-59 I could understand it. The original receiver is still there and intact as a firearm and I am not sure that there is a law that covers changing a fixed magazine rifle into one that accepts a detachable mag - and thus requires some remarking of the receiver