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Roadmarker
March 06, 2016, 23:29
Looking for a decent tactical shotgun. Want a pump for simplicity. I like the location of the safety on the 500 and 590, not so much on the Maverick 88.
Looking at a magpul SGA stock and maybe a flashlight. Still on the fence about a heat shield. Anyone have any ideas?

Roadmarker
March 07, 2016, 00:37
Ghost ring, red dot or what? I'm not too worried about anything past 50 yards as I'll transition to a FAL. A light or a laser may be more appropriate due to the home defense role. I guess I should have said that!
OK, I'm not a shotgun guy, but it seems to be a very powerful weapon until the reload, but if you have to fire 8 rounds of 12 gauge 00 buck in a home defense situation, you're in more of a fire fight. Time for the flamethrower and grenades...LOL.
What about carrying extra rounds? I see the left side of the receiver, the right side of the butt or the sling used a lot.
Is 00 buck the right HD load?

Jaxxas
March 07, 2016, 00:41
I have a Mossberg 590a1 with pistol grip for home defense. Nice shotgun though I vastly prefer my FN SLP.

Roadmarker
March 07, 2016, 00:56
Doesn't the recoil on the 590A1 slam your hand with just a pistol grip?
Do you prefer the pistol grip with butt stock on the FN? So many choices. The FN sounds nice, but I could buy 5 500s for the price of the quality FN.
Maybe a semi IS the way to go....

Jaxxas
March 07, 2016, 01:12
Doesn't the recoil on the 590A1 slam your hand with just a pistol grip?
Do you prefer the pistol grip with butt stock on the FN? So many choices. The FN sounds nice, but I could buy 5 500s for the price of the quality FN.
Maybe a semi IS the way to go....


Yes a bit, but if you are in tight quarters it may well prove worth it.

Yes my SLP has the pistol grip buttstock as I prefer! I paid about IIRC $1300 for my SLP and it is fast from any position.


https://www.fnamerica.com/products/shotguns/slp-series/slp-tactical/

Jarhead504
March 08, 2016, 19:08
Years ago, the 590 was the only shotgun that truly passed ALL mil-spec requirements. There ain't nothing wrong with a proper modified and maintained 590.

Jarhead

W.E.G.
March 08, 2016, 19:13
but if you are in tight quarters it may well prove worth it.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dk6Utpg5JcM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lh-dVYGwJB0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

gunplumber
March 08, 2016, 20:27
What does a shotgun do under 25 yards, that a carbine cant? (answer - nothing)

What does a carbine do past 25 yards, that a shotgun can't? (answer - everything).

Shotguns = good for shooting birds. Maybe rabits.

"Tactical?" What a joke.

Mebsuta
March 08, 2016, 20:55
What does a shotgun do under 25 yards, that a carbine cant? (answer - nothing)



If you have a spreader on it, I think hit a target that is running through the jungle at night.

Roadmarker
March 08, 2016, 23:23
No shit. The arrogant bastard has spoken.
Do you pack a light on your carbine? Tacticool your rails...LOL.
Maybe you need to paint some more pink dots on your fore ends.

EPC WN
March 09, 2016, 00:11
Roadie, I was thinking like you not too long ago. About a month ago, actually. I needed a shotgun. Had to have one. Nothing else would do. So if I'm going to go get a new boomstick I better over-research the subject, as I normally do when it's time to spend money. Wanted a Mossberg 590 A1 SPX. Might as well have a big fuggin' knife on the end of it since they already lugged it for me. This particular tacti-cool shotty was gently singing her siren song into my mind. I was entranced. Could this be a new love?

(Cue the film noir background music, and narrator in a smoke-filled dimly lit parlor...)

I felt like I might be moving too fast in our relationship, so I hit the pause button, and took a few days in the country to think it over, as I have been doing now that I'm a little older, a touch wiser perhaps. Meh, see; I've been burned a couple times in the past. A Colt Python, a Sig 556, a 40 cal Glock... all fire in the beginning, but soon that passion snubbed out like a post coital cigarette in cheap, speak-easy motel never to reignite. I don't know if it was me, or if it was them, but it was probably they faint recollection of my first true love seeping into my present day state of affairs. You see, I hadn't taken the FAL out in a very long time. Coming up on a year, maybe more. I digress... maybe.

(Back to reality)

Blasted the FAL. The lust wore off... Decided it was an overpriced, overlapping idea that could be skipped. I've gotten this far without it, and you have too... A .45 and a FAL can cover just about everything a shotty can save for shooting fowl. And a 18.5-20 inch barreled tactical shotgun is kind of shitty for that anyway. Do yourself a favor. Think about it. You may get over it. You may want to go for it. For me it was just another beast to feed in a caliber I would need to stock up on. I only roll three, but they're the only three I need. Best of luck!

Roadmarker
March 09, 2016, 01:11
Thanks for that. There is a reason I haven't ever owned one as you say. I felt I had somehow been neglecting my home defense. Not much is comparable to a 12 gauge in a hallway. I actually changed over from .40 to 9mm after considerable thought. Never thought that would happen.
So with the downsizing to the 9mm I wanted something with some proven bad guy stopping power for myself or the wife. No need for a semi-auto, just a budget home defense shotty. It would have but one purpose. No need to get too carried away. Just something simple and reliable...$200-$300 after mods is a lot less than a pistol. A light, maybe some extra rounds...probably don't need the butt stock.
I'm still deciding.

gunplumber
March 09, 2016, 07:27
For those seeking "home defense" at close range, and want a tool limited to little birdies and close range, the Rem 870 20g youth meets all requirements. It is economical and lightweight. It is lethal in your home and yard (if you have a small yard).


Do you pack a light on your carbine?

Of course. I pack a light everywhere. Seeing in the dark has some favorable advantages. I prefer a QD light mount, as investigating a noise with a flashlight on a gun, and then finding the noise is the Sheriff's Department, can be awkward.

Tacticool your rails...LOL.

I don't know what this means.

Maybe you some more pink dots on your fore end.

illiterate much?

probably don't need the butt stock.

(sigh)

Mark IV
March 09, 2016, 07:35
I'm with Jarhead on the 590, and GP is correct regarding the capabilities of a SG versus a carbine.

At close ranges < 25 yards, if I were approached by a group of misguided youth, I'm inclined to think I'd like to have my 590 loaded with #4 buck rather than a carbine. There is no choke on a 590 (IDK about the 88 or 500) and at the range that I would begin firing, I'd get some spread in the pattern.

#4 buckshot pellets are .24 diameter, and there are 27 pellets in a shell: That's almost like firing a whole magazine out of an AR in one shot, and once the chunks of body start flying, and blood and parts of visceral organs spatter the other ne'er-do-wells, they may reconsider their indiscretion ... and I still have eight more shells to convey my sore displeasure.

Plus the 590 has a bayonet lug, and 7" of steel is a persuader to stand off.

If I were bugging out would I pack a SG? No. I'd rather carry more ammo, mags and other essentials.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/connie82/mossie_zpsxjfyc3ry.jpg

W.E.G.
March 09, 2016, 08:09
If you have a spreader on it, I think hit a target that is running through the jungle at night.


Ohhhhh that Charlie.

He sneaky.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TyDQs0ajxEc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Roadmarker
March 09, 2016, 10:10
Mark, your people skills are showing again. You could have just said you disagreed with the concept and moved on. (Sigh)
Anyway, this isn't about you...so thanks for your input.

I guess ammo selection and patterning would have big effects.
As to the #4 buckshot, that makes a lot of sense if you're worried about over penetration in an urban set up.
With an open or cylinder bore choke I'd get the spread I'd want at 10-15 feet. I keep envisioning being woken up in the middle of the night and having to confront someone at that range.
I just had a thought that a shot gun might be better at defeating body armor than a pistol! At least it could defeat the armor by hitting spots that were not covered by armor. A center mass shot might send projectiles into the neck or upper extremities. Yep, I'm still warming to the idea of a shotgun for home defense.

gunplumber
March 09, 2016, 10:17
Mark, your people skills are showing again. You could have just said you disagreed with the concept and moved on. (Sigh)
Anyway, this isn't about you...so thanks for your input.

Sand in you vagina again? I guess if you're desperately seeking offense, you'll find it.

As it is, I simply presented facts. It's what I'm known for.



With an open or cylinder bore choke you'd get the spread I'd want at 10-15 feet. I keep envisioning being woken up in the middle of the night and having to confront someone at that range.

No, you won't. You'll have almost no spread. The shot cup will probably hit them.


I just had a thought that a shot gun might be better at defeating body armor than a pistol!

wrong again.

At least it could defeat the armor by hitting spots that were not covered by armor.

Probably the dumbest comment of the week.

You can also defeat body armor by hitting him in the head. With a rock.

A center mass shot might send projectiles into the neck or upper extremities.

Unlikely. Perhaps steel shot more than lead, but lead deforms - any soft covering will likely trap the shot. You'd need a relatively hard and smooth surface, a non-deforming projectile, and an angular vector.

Roadmarker
March 09, 2016, 10:32
:bow: Thanks for you highly thought out critique. :bow:
I feel humbled to have gained your attention.

One of your ideas did have merit and that was about the spread not opening up at that distance. Remember, the wife may be the one using this and I'd like a wall of shot covering about a 1 foot area.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset">I just had a thought that a shot gun might be better at defeating body armor than a pistol! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
GP, "wrong again."
How do you figure that? If you are a competent pistol shooter your first shot should be a center mass shot right? If your opponent has body armor that is in effect a wasted shot. With enough spread a shotgun blast could extend beyond the limits of said armor and provide a debilitating shot.

gunplumber
March 09, 2016, 10:52
GP, "wrong again."
How do you figure that?

physics.

gunplumber
March 09, 2016, 10:57
image links are dead, and I don't have time right now to redo them.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359119

Roadmarker
March 09, 2016, 11:23
I stand corrected. It looks like you actually did give this some thought at one point.
It might explain some of your "terse" replies. A lot of old people get that way when they have to repeat themselves...LOL.

Mebsuta
March 09, 2016, 17:27
If you get a shotgun, you can go shoot clay targets and have fun.

I like my MeXXican Mossberg Maverick 88 a lot. For $189 at Walmart, Academy or Dick's, it's not a huge investment. Once in a while I see used ones for less. If you want a Mossberg 500, it's not that much more.

If you shoot it a lot, the front sight bead will eventually fall off, but a solid brass replacement is cheap and easy.

http://i.imgur.com/UP5lv0C.jpg

gunplumber
March 09, 2016, 17:45
If you get a shotgun, you can go shoot clay targets and have fun.

I like my MeXXican Mossberg Maverick 88 a lot. For $189 at Walmart, Academy or Dick's, it's not a huge investment. Once in a while I see used ones for less. If you want a Mossberg 500, it's not that much more.

The Maverick is of significantly lower quality than a 500.

Mebsuta
March 09, 2016, 17:59
I luv mine. I like shooting it better than my 870s.

gunplumber
March 09, 2016, 18:17
That's great - just from my perspective as a gunsmith, the 500 is superior to the Maverick in manufacturing quality, that more than makes up for it's slightly higher cost.

Skilter
March 09, 2016, 18:42
590A1 no doubt.

Try loading a Winchester hen it is 12 degrees in snow.

Drop in and go... less stress during drills. Look up Vang Comp if you want to spend a little money.

J. Armstrong
March 09, 2016, 19:15
I used to be a believer in shotties for certain situations. Still have a couple around somewhere.

After much research ( although no first hand up close and personal type testing ;) ) I very reluctantly came to the conclusion that Mark is correct on all counts. Two misconceptions need to be set right before you decide. One is the "street sweeper" myth that you don't have to aim a shotgun ( or that at least you can get away with being a bit less precise ). Not even worth arguing, just go and pattern a shotgun some day.

The other is that a shotgun is safer in the house due to reduced penetration compared to a 5.56. Wrong again. I was truly surprised to see it demonstrated that 5.56 and virtually all 12ga self defense loads have essentially similar penetration through frame construction.

I can't say I was happy with these kernels of truth, but facts trump wishful thinking every time.

I will say that I do believe the sound of a racked pump gun is the universal signal for "go away", but upon consideration, I don't want to be meandering around with an empty chamber just to announce myself to some miscreant and ruining his underwear.

Mebsuta
March 09, 2016, 19:59
Well, there's this, from the Joint Service Shotgun report, but maybe this information is obsolete.

"Shotguns and shotgun cartridges are designed or chosen to
produce a desired projectile pattern at a specific distance. Their
military purpose is the simultaneous projection in the direction
of a close-range target of a number of projectiles in order to
increase the probability of striking the intended target.

This objective has been borne out in combat. British examination of
its Malaya experience determined that, to a range of thirty yards
(27.4 meters), the probability of hitting a man-sized target with
a shotgun was superior to that of all other weapons. The probability
of hitting the intended target with an assault rifle was
one in eleven. It was one in eight with a submachine gun firing
a five-round burst. Shotguns had a hit probability ratio twice as
good as rifles.

A 1952 British study by the Commander of British
Security Forces, compiled from combat action reports, tests,
and other studies (including medical), reconfirmed the previous
finding that the shotgun was a highly-effective combat weapon
at ranges out to seventy-five yards (68.6 meters).13 Traveling at
velocities one-third to one-half that of a modern military rifle
bullet, with a poor ballistic coefficient (particularly when compared
to the good ballistic coefficient of modern military rifle
bullets), shotgun buckshot also diminish risk of injury from
projectile over-penetration (through walls or doors) to civilians
who are not taking a direct part in the hostilities or to friendly
force combatants during military operations in urban terrain.
These reasons confirm the military necessity for shotguns."

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/10-1997.pdf

fnogger
March 09, 2016, 20:14
For strict home defense or vehicle carry I'd go with 590a1 and then perhaps a speed feed stock (since I happen to have one) or a side saddle for extra/different ammo. I also could maybe be tempted by one of the SBS-but-not-NFA offerings based on the 500 action - short barrel but meets minimum OAL

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/RG500.11a1.jpg

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

Since a 12ga pump is the most versatile gun you can find I would instead recommend the 500 with the barrel combo - 26" or so vent rib w/ screw in chokes for sporting use, and a 18.5" smooth bore w/ sights for "social" purposes.

Jon Frum
March 09, 2016, 21:28
I bet good ole $5 fer 25 rd. bird shot will work good up close. Wal mart has the green military 00 for a buck apiece .

gunplumber
March 10, 2016, 07:34
The probability
of hitting the intended target with an assault rifle was
one in eleven (at 30 yards)

That's pathetic shooting.

It was one in eight with a submachine gun firing
a five-round burst.

Which translates to one out of 40 rounds at 30 yards.

Sorry - but these are so bad that I have to discount the study as bullshit - I can hit a target at 30 with a rock, with better odds than that.

Shotguns had a hit probability ratio twice as
good as rifles.

Which would be 1 in 5.5 rounds if one considers one shotgun round and one rifle round equivalent, but in buck loaded with 8 pellets, that's actually a 1 in 44 chance.

It is also set at 30 yards, which is probably the ideal distance for spread. Change the distance to 5 yards ant 100 yards and everything changes. For the shotgun. And maybe the subgun. Not for the rifle.

Nuttz
March 10, 2016, 08:04
http://cdn0.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/141.jpg

:biggrin:

Mark IV
March 10, 2016, 09:11
^^^^^^^^^^^

:rofl:

I just about pissed myself!

Can tell you're a lefty.

W.E.G.
March 10, 2016, 09:21
Brit shotgun test in Malaya?

I bet that was odd.

Nuts fails for not using more pink and purple duct tape.

Roadmarker
March 10, 2016, 11:27
...Nuts fails for not using more pink and purple duct tape.

And no RAIDERZ stickers!

Nuttz
March 10, 2016, 11:48
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/5a/7c/f5/5a7cf51fc109aad2fb985d6e88a79169.jpg

nopec
March 10, 2016, 17:09
Have and 870 tactical with screw in chokes and ghost ring sights. Meh. Got a Mossy 930 spx and it's more fun than a barrel full of vodka.

EPC WN
March 10, 2016, 17:52
Have and 870 tactical with screw in chokes and ghost ring sights. Meh. Got a Mossy 930 spx and it's more fun than a barrel full of vodka.

Now fun with a shotgun is a whole other topic of discussion. My buddy has a 930 and that thing is a blast!!!

Mebsuta
March 10, 2016, 19:02
Sorry - but these are so bad that I have to discount the study as bullshit - I can hit a target at 30 with a rock, with better odds than that.


lol yes but how many people can do that in PvP, or the 2-way range as EMDII would say.

garandguy10
March 10, 2016, 21:16
What does a shotgun do under 25 yards, that a carbine cant? (answer - nothing)

What does a carbine do past 25 yards, that a shotgun can't? (answer - everything).

Shotguns = good for shooting birds. Maybe rabits.

"Tactical?" What a joke.

I use a 12 Gauge pump loaded with the first two shots with #7 low base bird loads for inside the home defense. The first two shots will get my point across to any hostiles at close (living room, much less than 25 yards) range without some of the threat of over penetration of walls, the second three rounds are high base 00 buck that will further enforce my point should things get more sporty, and if that should happen, over penetration will be less of a concern. I can always transition to a .45 1911 or any number of much higher power semi auto rifles should the situation (range, multiple hostiles) call for it.

But each his own.

nyalaman
March 11, 2016, 12:38
What does a shotgun do under 25 yards, that a carbine cant? (answer - nothing)

What does a carbine do past 25 yards, that a shotgun can't? (answer - everything).

Shotguns = good for shooting birds. Maybe rabits.

"Tactical?" What a joke.

In general I agree with this statement and theory as it pertains to stopping humans in a fight. However, A 1 oz slug accurately delivered 1400-1500 fps at 100- 140 yards has superior incapacitation, yes even over .7.62 x 51. Iv'e hunted whitetails with slugs and various .30 caliber rifles for 30 years +. I've seen many (well over a dozen) misplaced torso hits with slugs, that have all resulted in found deer. Iv'e seen many equally bad hits with high quality .308/30-06/300 mag that have resulted in lost deer. Yes, I know it's all about shot placement.

STGThndr
March 16, 2016, 06:24
OP. I have a couple of personal-use 12 gauges that retired with me as a former park ranger in rural Rocky mtn park. One is a very nicely done at my own expense Remmie 870 and the other is an off the shelf 500 Mossberg "riot gun". Both have extended mag tubes, the Remmie with ghost sight and tritium front bead, the Mossie with stock front bead. I spent some $$$ on that 870.. but I like shooting/carrying the Mossberg better.. one big reason being the location of the safety- Mossie safety is close to my thumb whereas I must move my hand ever so slightly to access the Remmie safety. Also, I shoot the Mossberg with slugs very well even with the front bead sight.
I would advise that you get one of the higher-quality Mossbergs, I would advise NOT getting a folding stock or a pistol grip. Standard shottie stocks are waaaay better in my personal experience than any pistol grip and the folder can wrack your face and wrist if you don't hold it right.. Best wishes as usual, IME, YMMV

0302
April 08, 2016, 20:33
winchester 1300 with 18" barrel & slugs. plenty of range & terminal performance. use 3" brenneke black magic, The Black Magic Magnum Ammunition features the CleanSpeed Coating that reduces lead fouling inside the barrel and muzzle. One of the heaviest slugs on the market, it offers excellent accuracy and flatter trajectory with moderate recoil. Ideal for large and dangerous game. Can be used in all barrel types. In testing, it achieved 2" groups at 50 yards and 3" groups at 100 yards in smoothbore barrels." it ain't no flippin .22.

the 1300 has a rotating bolt, alum receiver, & is reasonably priced.

grumpy1
April 09, 2016, 00:39
Mark, your people skills are showing again. You could have just said you disagreed with the concept and moved on. (Sigh)
Anyway, this isn't about you...so thanks for your input.

I guess ammo selection and patterning would have big effects.
As to the #4 buckshot, that makes a lot of sense if you're worried about over penetration in an urban set up.
With an open or cylinder bore choke I'd get the spread I'd want at 10-15 feet. I keep envisioning being woken up in the middle of the night and having to confront someone at that range.
I just had a thought that a shot gun might be better at defeating body armor than a pistol! At least it could defeat the armor by hitting spots that were not covered by armor. A center mass shot might send projectiles into the neck or upper extremities. Yep, I'm still warming to the idea of a shotgun for home defense.

Ok, to start off with, find the video of the LA bank robbery shoot out. The cops where armed with pistols & 12 ga shotguns (Ithica M37). As you watch the video you can see the bad guys getting hit with round after round from the cops from both shotguns and pistols. Neither has what it takes to get through a bullet proof vest. What gets a bullet threw a vest is a small frontal area and speed (over about 1200 fps ish). If you do a good search, there isn't a level I to IIIa vest that will stop a 22LR bullet, its got the speed and is small enough to get threw.

As far as spread at 25 yards, it isn't good with 00 buck. When I worked for the DOD we patterned 7 different M590 with the 20 inch barrel. Not one made it to 25 yards, the closest was a 36 inch spread at 20 yards. Basicly, one could miss a person completely 20 yards with 00 buck while aiming directly at them. Some where so bad at 15 yards, we took them out of service.
There have been sevreal tests done, which have shown that the 556 round penetration is less than a handgun round or shotgun in a house. They set up a mock walls, made like real wall, and shot them with different types of guns and the 556 penetrated less than the others because they found it started to tumble when it made contact with the wall. The tumbling caused the bullet to lose energry faster, which equals less penetration. This is why every policeagency has moved away from subguns and shotguns.
On a side note, I was involved in a shooting where a blast from a 12 gauge with 00 buck when 18 feet threw the middle of a wall before hitting a solid wood door.

EPC WN
April 09, 2016, 01:32
So what's up Roadie? Ever pull the trigger?

Tuhlmann
April 09, 2016, 18:40
If you call a shotgun a "shottie/shotty", I call you "douchie/douchey".


Just needed to grt that off my chest. Carry on.

SAFN49
April 10, 2016, 22:01
What gets a bullet threw a vest is a small frontal area and speed (over about 1200 fps ish). If you do a good search, there isn't a level I to IIIa vest that will stop a 22LR bullet, its got the speed and is small enough to get threw.



I have read some absolute stupid shit on this forum, but this has to take the cake.

No wonder I don't visit that often anymore.



and it's through, not threw

through

THro͞o
preposition & adverb
1. moving in one side and out of the other side of

0302
April 11, 2016, 18:27
i axed the local gun dealer, "why you no sell mossbergs" & he said the mossberg safety is prone to breaking & mossbergs are cheap & a pain to deal with.

i have never any civvie with body armor. just aim for the base of the neck.

open ear shooter
April 12, 2016, 07:43
ive owned many pump shotguns Military and Police and the fav is always the 590, ive shot thousands of rnds through them the only real fault ive always encountered with the 590 was the magazine end cap coming loose its locked in place by a brass spring loaded detent pin that can wear down over time how ever that was on a high mileage 590 and not a difficult part to replace
i also had a high mileage 500 Duck gun that the safety flaked out on but i got my moneys worth out of it so no big deal
IMHO the 88 is a P.O.S brought one only be cause it was cheap

munchoman
April 12, 2016, 08:05
I replaced my broken plastic safety, with this metal one I bought from Brownells


http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/safety-parts/safeties/500-safety-button-prod9476.aspx

Roadmarker
April 12, 2016, 14:20
So what's up Roadie? Ever pull the trigger?

Still looking at options. I'm really not a shotgun guy, but I think I will get a 500 or 590 if the price is right. My wife would be more comfortable with a 20 gauge. A shorty 20 with #4 shot might be the best option for the particular situation of a home invasion at night when they are coming down the hall scenario...lol. There would still be plenty of lead going down range.
I don't know why I always thought that the spread would be greater. Too many movies I guess.
A single #4 in an extremity might incapacitate an intruder so I'm sure a blast to the head area would be totally horrific and require fingerprints or DNA to ID the recipient.
I won't get a Maverick 88 because of quality issues, but for under $200 it would be some pretty cheap insurance if that is all you could afford. I'm still a rifle guy, and my pistol is used as a last resort or to help me get to my rifle.

NC Rifleman
April 12, 2016, 15:17
If you decide on a 500 I have a couple older ones, a blue 18" and a parked 20" I'm willing to part with if you're interested.

fnogger
April 13, 2016, 16:20
Still looking at options. I'm really not a shotgun guy, but I think I will get a 500 or 590 if the price is right. My wife would be more comfortable with a 20 gauge. A shorty 20 with #4 shot might be the best option for the particular situation of a home invasion at night when they are coming down the hall scenario...lol. There would still be plenty of lead going down range.
I don't know why I always thought that the spread would be greater. Too many movies I guess.
A single #4 in an extremity might incapacitate an intruder so I'm sure a blast to the head area would be totally horrific and require fingerprints or DNA to ID the recipient.
I won't get a Maverick 88 because of quality issues, but for under $200 it would be some pretty cheap insurance if that is all you could afford. I'm still a rifle guy, and my pistol is used as a last resort or to help me get to my rifle.

Re: spread... My Mossy 500 has what used to be a 28" barrel, cut down to 19". 00 buck at 15 yards can end up on either side of a full size silhouette target with only 2 or 3 pellets in any place important. A bit *too* much spread. Using bird shot shooting skeet, getting both targets with one shell on the doubles station happens so frequently that if I use it I bring along plenty of extra shells, even though I'd only need 25 for a full round, getting a double hit happens often enough that a round is really 28 or 29 shells....

If you get something with screw in chokes, and you put in a rifled choke (ie, for sabot slugs) you can get super amounts of spread, especially with smaller shot. Bad part about that is at a distance you end up with a hole in the middle of the pattern, and on a patterning board it can look like a donut.

gates
May 11, 2016, 16:04
The 590 is good kit, I have had one for a LOOOONG time and never had any problems with it - plus you can hang a cool pig sticker off the front end:-)

Roadmarker
May 11, 2016, 20:33
I decided on the parked 20" 8 shot Mossberg 500 with bayonet lug. Thank you, NC rifleman. I should be picking it up this weekend. :rofl:

Bakwa352
June 02, 2016, 10:29
None of you know what you're talking about. You don't need any of the above mentioned guns. The best HD gun is a double barrel 12ga. Enough said...
If you don't believe me, there's proof right here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrzyRXSxuAg

EPC WN
June 02, 2016, 14:07
None of you know what you're talking about. You don't need any of the above mentioned guns. The best HD gun is a double barrel 12ga. Enough said...
If you don't believe me, there's proof right here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrzyRXSxuAg

Good shit right thar! Pure facts from the most expert of experts. You'll fit in good around these parts.

BUFF
June 03, 2016, 01:00
Inside a typical house, birdshot will penetrate several drywall and stud walls. Up close, even small birdshot acts almost as a slug, you would be surprised at the distance you need to get much spread and then, how fast that spread is useless for many hits on a person.

My department carried #4 buck, the 27 pellet load, and we shot a few people with it while I was there and we didn't seriously disable any of them. At 25 yards, you are almost safe from it unless a pellet catches you in the eye.

Inside a house-sized building, any shotgun with a buttstock gets clummsy fast and without one, placement gets bad fast unless you shoot it a lot, which your wife and/or girlfriend won't.

While the cops aren't generally the experts at gunfighting, we accumulated a lot of experience through volume. There is a reason most departments have abandoned shotguns for anything but specialty rounds and gone to .223 carbines.

Bakwa352
June 03, 2016, 09:14
Inside a house-sized building, any shotgun with a buttstock gets clummsy fast and without one, placement gets bad fast unless you shoot it a lot, which your wife and/or girlfriend won't.

While the cops aren't generally the experts at gunfighting, we accumulated a lot of experience through volume. There is a reason most departments have abandoned shotguns for anything but specialty rounds and gone to .223 carbines.

Well put. This is my experience too having worked/trained with paramilitary groups.

Slow
June 03, 2016, 10:35
i bring this out of the safe during the drunk fest holidays ( May 5th as an example ) in my newly diversified neighborhood, just in case some one liquored up and thinks his balls are brass wants to mess with the gringo at the end of the street .

while really useless, Nothing says "get the Fu*k back" like a bayonet.
it has to have some physiological value. besides i like the look, and get look at the range, yes i shoot it with the bayonet attached, Ask Sigg220.:biggrin:

Moss 590

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k466/SlowModem/Mos590l.jpg

Nuttz
June 03, 2016, 10:42
...Nothing says "get the Fu*k back" like a bayonet...
...unless you are a "Mosin Man"! :wink:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MHJSu_GLfzc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:facepalm:

...and here is a guy with a similar setup as yours with not as much luck it seems:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/reIsKkdM-uE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Slow
June 03, 2016, 10:54
...and here is a guy with a similar setup as yours with not as much luck it seems:



LOL

Probably a Chinese knockoff bayonet.......

also if you dont have a gun rack or tree to lean the shotgun against the bayonet makes for a neat kickstand....:fal::wink:




.

Impala_Guy
June 04, 2016, 22:26
#4 buckshot and 000 or 00 buck are wholly different rounds. Managed to kill several deer with large buckshot over the years including a nice running buck during a dog drive at over 30 paces with two shots from a A5 with a 24in rifle sighted barrel. Slugs accurate enough for 100 yard shots through a smoothbore with sights and at 200 yards you can still keep their heads down. 1 oz of lead at 1400 fps nothing to scoff at.

Cava3r4
September 02, 2016, 13:21
This objective has been borne out in combat. British examination of
its Malaya experience determined that, to a range of thirty yards
(27.4 meters),

you must have a BIG house !

0302
September 03, 2016, 10:57
the average trailer house is about 10' wide & 40' long, well within spec (i do not live in a trailer so just estimating).

Ironhandjohn
September 23, 2016, 23:49
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/1472422387_zps87ag91hy.jpg
http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq355/Ironhandjohn/1472422390_zpssxkjkq3o.jpg


My 2003-dated 590 means business out to around 100yds with slugs.

GIshooter
September 24, 2016, 19:43
I keep a 590A1 with ghost ring sights (no pistol grip) around the house. OOO buckshot and 1 oz slugs. I prefer the tang mounted safety.

Bug Tussell
September 25, 2016, 10:06
https://youtu.be/uv66RiFC4T0

Democrat1
September 25, 2016, 20:22
There is a very long thread on AR15.com, started by a guy who has a machine-gun rental range in Las Vegas. He also rents other things. Much of what he rents is to video gamers, so they can see what firing their favorite video weapon is actually like. One thing he says breaks a lot is Remington 870 and Mossberg 500/590 shotguns. He gives a description for some of the things that break on page 43 of the thread:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_roun ds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html&page=43

I've never had a Remington 870, but my Dad has two, and he shot Skeet with two of them for many years and never broke anything. I've had several Mossberg 500 type shotguns and shot them for years, and the only thing that ever broke on the two of them was an action bar on a single-bar 20 gauge. On the 12 gauge Mossberg, nothing ever broke, and I fed a literal ton of Skeet loads through it, as well a lot of really high performance steel shot handholds.

Maine1
September 25, 2016, 21:01
Have several 500's, and a 590, and shoot them retty often, mostly with slugs and 00 buck.

I have found the 18" bead sighted, cylinder bore barrels- on the Mossberg anyway- to be pretty capable out to 100 yards with slugs with a bit of practice. With a good load of buck, one that the gun likes, 35 yards or so is possible. The ghost ring sights on my 590 occlude a lot of target, moreso than the bead.

A shot gun is not a rifle, and never will be. But they can cover some bases if one has limited funds/interest.

I'll never replace my rifles with a shotguns, but shotguns do have their place- staic defense, taking out coyotes in the night, saying a big "**** you" to hostile groups- though i'd prefer a rifle with a more copious mag for it- it wil do the job.
Plus, not knowing how to use a pump 12 GA is just silly- they are one of the most common guns in America.
There are better tools out there, but the pump is pretty good.

Heat
September 28, 2016, 20:16
Still looking at options. I'm really not a shotgun guy, but I think I will get a 500 or 590 if the price is right. My wife would be more comfortable with a 20 gauge. A shorty 20 with #4 shot might be the best option for the particular situation of a home invasion at night when they are coming down the hall scenario...lol. There would still be plenty of lead going down range.
I don't know why I always thought that the spread would be greater. Too many movies I guess.
A single #4 in an extremity might incapacitate an intruder so I'm sure a blast to the head area would be totally horrific and require fingerprints or DNA to ID the recipient.
I won't get a Maverick 88 because of quality issues, but for under $200 it would be some pretty cheap insurance if that is all you could afford. I'm still a rifle guy, and my pistol is used as a last resort or to help me get to my rifle.

Get something old, made of steel and wood--no MiM parts!!!!!!!!!!