View Full Version : Need someone knowledgeable on higher end shotguns.

February 17, 2016, 07:59
The last of the guns from my friend's estate settlement have been released - they are mostly shotguns. The kinds that come in fitted cases.

I have been asked by the family to help liquidate them.

While I did fine with the rifles and handguns, I am out of my element here as to "opening bid" valuations. If there is anyone here who is particularly qualified in appraising higher-end shotguns, I need some help.

Let me know, I'll be taking hundreds of photos over the next few days.

For particularly qualified appraisals, I think we can work out some form of compensation for time and effort. (But if you've benefited from my free advise over the last 25 years, it's payback time, bitches!)

Much thanks.

February 17, 2016, 15:40
Well drat. Turns out there is one beat up field grade LC smith SXS with 30% bluing and buggered screws, sanded stock, and the rest are Perazzis and Winchesters and such.

I've got a lot research ahead of me.

February 17, 2016, 16:33
Awesome, they'll be the last I document, because of the accessories, multiple barrels, etc.

February 17, 2016, 16:59
I do NOT want a Perazzi for my son, but if there was a 12 ga o/u for less than 1k, I'd be game.

February 17, 2016, 20:39
I know a little about vintage European shotguns, if you come across any of those.

12 Guage LC ?

February 17, 2016, 21:33
Winchesters ?? As in M-21 ?

February 18, 2016, 07:44
Win Model 50 12 (2 barrel)
Win Model 50 12
Win model 50 20
Win Model 50 20
Win Model 59 w/ fiberglass? barrel
LC Smith Field 20
<s>Citori</s> Superposed Pigeon 12
Parrazzi TMX 12
Perazzi DB 81 3 barrel 12
Perazzi MT6 12
Perazzi MT6 12

February 18, 2016, 09:07
I've seen a number of Winchester model 50 12 ga @ Houston area gunshows in the neighborhood of $300/$600 .A pretty decent shotgun they have a Carbine Williams style "floating chamber" . The model 59 Has a "win lite" barrel a very thin steel tube wrapped with fiberglass and an alloy receiver I rarely see these so no clue on $. The Perrazis are out of my pay grade.

February 18, 2016, 10:04
I would have an interest in the Citori.

email coming.

February 18, 2016, 13:20
I'm still editing the photos.

Will e-mail them to you shortly.

February 18, 2016, 20:40
Nice guns.

The Model 50s might run from 250 to 500 based upon condition, chokes (open chokes bring more especially ws 1&2), vent rib barrels, wood etc. The 20 gauges would bring maybe 15 to 20 percent more. If the guns have factory engraving even more.

I love my 12 & 20 gauge Model 50s, the work of carbine williams.

MODEL 59s are under appreciated, so I swag 200-300 based on condition and if the barrel is equipped with a versa lite choke. The Model 59 was the first commonly available gun with removable chokes. I have a couple of those and I like them.

The LC is desirable in 20 gauge, if it isn't too whipped and if the barrels have not been cut, 450 and up.

Check the floating chamber on the 50s & 59 for corrosion and pitting, that would ding the price.

The Super Pigeon Grade value depends a lot on year of manufactor, barrel length configuration etc. The Salt Wood Era guns 1965-1970 are worth much less.

February 19, 2016, 07:49
I find the floating chamber quite interesting. What's the advantage of it? Wasn't there something similar on the Colt Ace .22/1911?

Some of the Model 50s have a wire at the bolt. I assume it is to catch the ejecting case for retention. It appears to be factory. Is it? Or is this an after-market mod?

February 19, 2016, 11:18
The Model 50 Winchester was design 65-70 years ago, and the developers of it are long gone.

So this is just a synopsis of what I recall reading, hearing first hand from old Winchester Collectors, and mythology passed on along beside the beef jerky tables at Gunshows.

Winchester wanted an autoloading shotgun with a fixed barrel, the common autoloaders of that time were all long recoil shotguns, based upon the Browning Autoloader design. Shooters complained of the odd feeling recoil of the moving barrels, and most were confused by setting up the friction rings for different loads.
Also they wanted stripping down the autoloaders of that

Winchester had two autoloading shotguns before the Model 50. The Model 1911 which was an attempt to get around the Browning Patten, it was not a great success, it is often called the Widow Maker because it lacks a charging handle, it has a knurled ring on the barrel that you grasp and shove the barrel back to charge it. It is a weird old gun, and I have one in my collection.

An even bigger Turkey was the Winchester Model 40 introduced in 1940. It is recoil operated and has a charging handle. But tended to wear quickly and then discharge when the bolt went forward. It is a beautiful example of machine work however. It was such a Turkey that Winchester “recalled” most of them and would send you a Model 12 Pump as a replacement. Also in the early 40s Winchester had other things on their mind, such as weapons for WW II. I have one of these also, a Skeet Grade even.

So here was Winchester without a successful Autoloading Shotgun, and they wanted one that was unique in not having a barrel that moved under recoil, simple to clean, and didn’t require fiddling with friction rings to function with various shotgun loads. IE Light Loads and Heavy Loads. Winchester had the Williams Patents and Williams on contract and he came up with idea of using his floating chamber in a shotgun. Williams was behind the Colt Ace floating chamber which was based upon his work in adapting a Browning .30 Caliber machinegun to use 22 LR as a training cartridge.

William’s said the Model 50 (and 59 which is the same design with aluminum alloy receiver and fiberglass wrapped barrel) was the toughest project he ever worked on. The Model 50/59 shotguns are nice well-made shotguns, just a little different, especially confusing is how the recoil buffer is adjusted. They are butt heavy and that turns some people of tem.

In the late 50s Remington came out with the Model 58 and 878 gas port operated guns, and later the improved 1100 and Winchester was shutout of autoloading shotgun market again. I believe that Benelli had to pay patent royalties to USRC for their inertia operated Montifeltro Bolt shotguns, that was the story I heard.

The Shell Catch probably is an aftermarket addition, that is and was very popular among Trap shooters. So you may have some guns that were set up for Trap.

The sad thing is shotguns of this era are not popular with younger shooters and most of the people that really appreciated them are dead, or fixing to be.

February 19, 2016, 11:21
Sorry for the redundant information SAFN49, I didn't refresh and missed your reply.

One other little tidbit. The ATF gave Winchester so trouble about the floating chamber as the gun maybe fired without the barrel attached. Winchester got past that somehow.

The Model 50 is a smooth running shotgun in my opinion.

Oh and yes I collect oddball shotguns :)

February 19, 2016, 11:32
One other little tidbit. The ATF gave Winchester so trouble about the floating chamber as the gun maybe fired without the barrel attached. Winchester got past that somehow.

I have never detail-stripped one, but I noticed a little plunger on the floating chamber (one of the guns has 2 barrels and 2 chambers). I suspect the default is a blocked trigger group, and this plunger deactivates the block only with a barrel installed.

February 19, 2016, 12:03
The 11-48 is recoil operated isn't ? Or am I having a senior moment ?😀

The old 59 sure is nice to carry and is great on flushing birds, especially Pheasants !

I will check my 50s for the block GP.

Something else I forgot, some Model 50 20 gauges had an aluminum receiver, those are especially nice to carry. And I need one of those for my collection.

February 19, 2016, 13:24
I have had the same thing ask of me when I have been shooting my Model 58.

I have also had people tell me you mean 870,
when I mentioned a 878.