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View Full Version : Was the Black Elk reciever issue ever resolved?


AZ Dave
November 28, 2015, 09:51
I think it was Denaliakitas that got screwed and was wondering if this issue ever was resolved.

308/223shooter
November 28, 2015, 09:54
Don't know, but anouther group buy would be stellar.

AZ Dave
November 28, 2015, 09:56
It would be good except if you paid for one and never got it...That would suck no matter how cheap they were!

munchoman
November 28, 2015, 10:00
last I heard it was resolved with a big FU

AZ Dave
November 28, 2015, 10:10
I was wondering if this could be reported to local L.E. or BATF as a stolen firearm? If I were the one that got screwed by Black Elk, I would not let it die. This is THEFT pure and simple!

tdb59
November 28, 2015, 13:44
Don't know, but anouther group buy would be stellar.


Hmmmm...




.

notfrommt
November 28, 2015, 14:34
Why is this still a thing? Neither party is represented here.


:deadhorse:

AZ Dave
November 28, 2015, 16:52
If the buyer hasnt recieved his goods it's still "a thing."

kwthor
November 28, 2015, 16:56
I was just wondering if it had been resolved. Is that ok with you?

Do you have a loss in this issue? What is your motivation here?
Others have interceeded and taken it as far is it could go.

Are you trying to accomplish something or just stir things up?

2barearms
November 28, 2015, 17:10
Do you have a loss in this issue? What is your motivation here?
Others have interceeded and taken it as far is it could go.

Are you trying to accomplish something or just stir things up?

Somewhere along the way Honor lost it's top spot around here. I just got screwed on deal in the MP today by a TedIII who's been a member for 14
years! He Couldn't wait till I replied after he waited almost 2 hours not that
that should matter.

So was this resolved?

AZ Dave
November 28, 2015, 17:12
Well...I guess it has not been resolved. The only issue I have is a member getting ripped off. It's B.S. Maybe I should check with you guys before posting anything. Dont want to ruffle any feathers.......:bow: I think Black Elk should be banned for outright theft! Everyone sings the " We police our own" crap here bla bla bla...B.S........I want everyone to know who the thieves are on this board so we can avoid them.

Right Side Up
November 28, 2015, 23:19
I'm guessing it hasn't. I asked the guy to keep me updated. I like to know who the "un-trusted sellers" are around here so I don't get bent over for $450.

I doubt Black Elk will be doing any more group buys. His FFL expired.

4x401
November 29, 2015, 00:15
I doubt Black Elk will be doing any more group buys. His FFL expired.

You actually have the facts strait here, congrats.

As far as the deal between BE & Danali goes, there's alot of pertinent info missing from both sides of the argument..neither of which can prove unfortunately. :sad:

4x401
November 29, 2015, 01:23
Hmmmm....



You should do it!

What could possibly go wrong? :whistling:

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 01:44
What could possibly go wrong? :whistling:



Like the temptation to steal? :(

tdb59
November 29, 2015, 13:02
You should do it!

What could possibly go wrong? :whistling:


Hmmmmm....

ftierson
November 29, 2015, 13:33
Like the temptation to steal? :(

Must be more of a problem for some than others...

Just sayin'...

Forrest

4x401
November 29, 2015, 16:46
Like the temptation to steal? :(

Jeez your full of yourself.:rofl:

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 17:45
Just reporting the news. I always thought an FFL was supposed to set a standard for honesty.

meltblown
November 29, 2015, 17:57
Just reporting the news. I always thought an FFL was supposed to set a standard for honesty.

Interesting point. I'm sort of neutral on this. I forget to pick up a gun for 2 years and go back and expect it to be there is one thing. Most every business has a limitation as to when the property becomes forfeited. Didn't go back to the original thread and forget the particulars.

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 18:12
I have parts that have been in my shop for 20 years. Not mine to sell. They're paid for. So was that receiver.

There is a specific legal procedure for a business to follow when selling people's parts, and it includes contacting the owner. I wonder if it was adhered to? I doubt it.

Edit to add: The buyer (according to him) didn't wait two years to get the receiver, he waited two years to go public with it.

meltblown
November 29, 2015, 18:38
I have parts that have been in my shop for 20 years. Not mine to sell. They're paid for. So was that receiver.

There is a specific legal procedure for a business to follow when selling people's parts, and it includes contacting the owner. I wonder if it was adhered to? I doubt it.

Edit to add: The buyer (according to him) didn't wait two years to get the receiver, he waited two years to go public with it.

Like I said old man, I'm neutral. I never understood a group buy. If I want a receiver or 5, I'll go buy em.

4x401
November 29, 2015, 18:41
I always thought an FFL was supposed to set a standard for honesty.

The logic of this statement alludes me. Human beings, regardless of any assigned title should set a standard for honesty. The elected officials of this country should be setting the standard for honesty but obviously don't, so your point is moot.

"Just reporting the news"? Yes you are...just like reporters that spew whatever is splayed across their teleprompter..no fact check, just say it 'cuz its on the screen.:facepalm:

The fact is BE facilitated a MASSIVE 300+ Imbel receiver group buy. Everyone but ONE person received their goods.

And you believe he singled ONE guy out and Stole the receiver for his own use..right.:]

But being the typical Reporter you are, you'll keep spewing the same headline news...even when you have no fugging clue what the facts are.

You said that Denali was keeping you updated, has he provided additional info that would implicate BE as a thief other than a 2 1/2 year old email?? If so, you haven't shared it here.

Come'on Cronkite, spew the news...

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 18:59
I admire your loyalty, but this is black and white, we have each chosen our side.

Where is the guys' receiver? Why has he not yet received it? There is no excuse. Where is the receipt for the certified letter sent to Denali, if Black Elk sold it? If he sold it why did he not send denali his money back? The e-mails Denali posted before show that Black Elk did in fact finally receive the FFL info he needed, Why was it never shipped?

4x401
November 29, 2015, 19:04
Edit to add: The buyer (according to him) didn't wait two years to get the receiver, he waited two years to go public with it.

And there you go spew'in...

FACT:

There is information of pertinence missing from Both parties involved due to computer issues...

But you go on believing what you want. :D

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 19:10
There are only two facts to know.

1. A receiver was paid for.

2. It was never shipped.

4x401
November 29, 2015, 19:13
I admire your loyalty

No you don't. :D

And you didn't answer a single question I posed. :confused:

Spew much?

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 19:21
Spew much?



When can the buyer expect to see his receiver?

4x401
November 29, 2015, 19:25
There are only two facts to know.

1. A receiver was paid for.

2. It was never shipped.

Indeed, both are facts.

But you don't know the circumstances surrounding the transaction do you?

You still aren't providing any proof (from Denali) that there was anything stole..

4x401
November 29, 2015, 19:26
When can the buyer expect to see his receiver?

We're chasing our tails at this point...

Right Side Up
November 29, 2015, 19:30
This has been going on for a few months. If you, as a good friend of Black Elks, don't have any information on if or when this is going to get settled then odds are, especially in light of Black Elk's FFL not getting renewed, that it isn't going to happen.

4x401
November 29, 2015, 19:44
This has been going on for a few months. If you, as a good friend of Black Elks, don't have any information on if or when this is going to get settled then odds are, especially in light of Black Elk's FFL not getting renewed, that it isn't going to happen.

Well-
If you, as a Good friend of Danali's haven't any information to support the case he was "Stole" from, your probably correct. :]

tdb59
November 29, 2015, 19:55
33




.

IRONWORKER
November 30, 2015, 09:51
Well-
If you, as a Good friend of Danali's haven't any information to support the case he was "Stole" from, your probably correct. :]

Touché!

Erik the Red
November 30, 2015, 12:47
I know David very well and he's one of my best friends. I remember a fair amount about this transaction. The person that bought the Receiver did not communicate with David for over a year. During that time David tried contacting the buyer several times and didn't hear a thing from them. During that time, David let the buyer know that there was going to be storage fees. These fees eventually added up to over the cost of the receiver. At that point, it became the property of Revolution Arms Yard. It was completely legal for him to do this. The only person to blame in the whole situation is the buyer, for not doing their part in communicating with David. Its unfortunate to see anyone lose out on a Receiver, but they were informed of the situation and did nothing about it for almost 2 years.

David transferred over 500 Imbel Receivers in 5 group buys. It was a huge undertaking for one man. He is not a thief, just a good business owner trying to help out everyone in the FAL community. He only made $15 off of each receiver, so this was not a big profit venture for him. Hopefully he will be renewing his FFL again in the future. This witch hunt has really soured him from wanting to ever do another group buy.

I would suggest giving this a rest. This is all I know.

Thank You,
Erik Ernst

Ernst Armory LLC

Right Side Up
November 30, 2015, 12:51
$450 to store an Imbel receiver for a year? Shady business practices.

If you think that is ok, you will never have to worry about doing business with me.

Black Elk is the one who needs to "give this a rest" and do the right thing, which is give the man his receiver or his money.

Right Side Up
November 30, 2015, 13:02
I know David very well and he's one of my best friends. I remember a fair amount about this transaction. The person that bought the Receiver did not communicate with David for over a year. During that time David tried contacting the buyer several times and didn't hear a thing from them. During that time, David let the buyer know that there was going to be storage fees. These fees eventually added up to over the cost of the receiver. At that point, it became the property of Revolution Arms Yard. It was completely legal for him to do this. The only person to blame in the whole situation is the buyer, for not doing their part in communicating with David. Its unfortunate to see anyone lose out on a Receiver, but they were informed of the situation and did nothing about it for almost 2 years.

David transferred over 500 Imbel Receivers in 5 group buys. It was a huge undertaking for one man. He is not a thief, just a good business owner trying to help out everyone in the FAL community. He only made $15 off of each receiver, so this was not a big profit venture for him. Hopefully he will be renewing his FFL again in the future. This witch hunt has really soured him from wanting to ever do another group buy.

I would suggest giving this a rest. This is all I know.

Thank You,
Erik Ernst

Ernst Armory LLC

Erik, the buyer claims it is David that had the mixup, admitted it, and told the buyer there would not be any storage fees. Also, the buyer claims that he has not heard back from David since April 2013, after the FFL info was supposedly straightened out.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390686



Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Elk
Please email me at info@338fal.com (or PM) with ALL of your information ASAP.

Your receiver has been sitting here but we can't find a dealer's FFL to attribute to your account in order to ship it.

because of all the mixups we are not charging you the storage fees so please get me:
Your Name
Your Email
Your Phone #
Dealer's Name
Dealer's Email

David

Erik the Red
November 30, 2015, 13:13
I'm not getting involved any further. All I know is what I heard from David. David chose the storage fees, and let the customer know. Beyond that, i have nothing to add. Its not my deal, so I'm gonna stay out of it from here on out.
Just my 2 cents.

AZ Dave
November 30, 2015, 17:51
Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right! No honor!

Right Side Up
December 01, 2015, 00:11
I'm not getting involved any further. All I know is what I heard from David. David chose the storage fees, and let the customer know. Beyond that, i have nothing to add. Its not my deal, so I'm gonna stay out of it from here on out.
Just my 2 cents.

Black Elk doesn't seem to have a problem talking to you or 4x401, yet won't respond to the one person he has the most responsibility to respond to....the buyer.

308/223shooter
December 01, 2015, 00:37
Black Elk doesn't seem to have a problem talking to you or 4x401, yet won't respond to the one person he has the most responsibility to respond to....the buyer.

I have to wonder about something. Out of all the receivers he transferred through that buy, why did he pick the ONE guy to screw? He could've ripped off any one of the buyers, but it was just the one bloke. There just HAS to be something more to the deal, which we likely will never know. I mean seriously, who pays for a receiver, then waits so bloody long to go public with his complaint? Shit, is there ANYONE else on this board that'd wait more than a few weeks before calling the Oregon DOJ, State Police, or county Sheriff? How about calling the ATF? Just wondering you know?

Right Side Up
December 01, 2015, 00:42
I can't believe you would even say that.

I think Black Elk's friends have their minds made up already. Doesn't matter when the buyer said something. It was either going to be too soon or too late.

I'd like to see Black Elk's response too. He's had every chance the last few months to clear himself, but nothing. Looks like he's pleading "No Contest".

one hand clapping
December 01, 2015, 08:31
Both times I participated in a group by, put together by black elk, the process was seamless. He posted what we needed top do, and having done that ,wait, recieve reciever and twist.
It is unfortunate that for WHATEVER reason Denalli didn't get his info to D within the prescribed timeframe is sad. I think there is reasonable expectation of a storage fee, as was stated in the OP, IF you didn't get your info to him in a timely fashion.
I have no personal knowlege of the coms between buyer and seller, BUT as I say I followed the directions and recieved my recievers ,well packaged, both times I joined in.

I can't imagine having to deal with all the emails ,questions and potential stings ops from barry's kids for a $15.00 per unit profit.

IF you guys can't see that BE was hooking us up with Pars recievers for a good bit less than Pars was getting from his peicemeal gunbroker sales. I don't know what to say.
I'm sorry Denalli didn't get his reciever, but it takes TWO to make a deal.
Why should someone being legaly responsible, hang on to a registered item for someone else for free ,after the origional paperwork was not in order and harsh words have been spoken?

I do think Denalli should have eventualy got his reciever, OR funds back minus the pain in the ass fee deduction.
BUT after doing 499 of us a real square, I can understand BE's position as well.

Sad that this is what gets remembered. BE did alot of us real good, and my current comp FAL is built on one of those recievers, with an Imbel kit I got from Pat bout a month before he left us.

308/223shooter
December 01, 2015, 09:47
I can't believe you would even say that.

I think Black Elk's friends have their minds made up already. Doesn't matter when the buyer said something. It was either going to be too soon or too late.

I'd like to see Black Elk's response too. He's had every chance the last few months to clear himself, but nothing. Looks like he's pleading "No Contest".

Wouldn"t consider myself his friend, I've never met nor spoken to him. I think there were a couple Emails back and forth for the transfer and payment info is all. I'm just typing my views on the matter. If Denali wanted a refund after he didn't get his receiver, he should've been a hell of a lot faster in pursuing it via legal means.

embatp
December 01, 2015, 16:01
33




.

Hmmmm.....

308/223shooter
December 01, 2015, 17:59
Forty six.

Flypaper
December 01, 2015, 19:04
47

I sure wouldn't of waited a year let alone two years... I would have started calling when other people received theirs.

Not every deal goes smooth but they should at least get done.

(.02)

meltblown
December 01, 2015, 19:29
+/- 0 Yeah, I don't forget about that type of money. Like I said before, a group buy just does not appeal to me. Too much waiting and too much having to keep up with stuff. Time has a value.

308/223shooter
December 01, 2015, 20:47
+/- 0 Yeah, I don't forget about that type of money. Like I said before, a group buy just does not appeal to me. Too much waiting and too much having to keep up with stuff. Time has a value.

Not to mention dealing with all of the wrapping, and boxes, and running to the bloody post or UPS to ship, then there's all the room the boxes take up pissing off your missus. Been there once with the metric mag group buy. I should've bought anouther 1,000 mags and stored them.
So just for speculation, if I put together a receiver group buy, how many of you would be on board?

Roadmarker
December 01, 2015, 20:58
Both times I participated in a group by, put together by black elk, the process was seamless. He posted what we needed top do, and having done that ,wait, recieve reciever and twist.
It is unfortunate that for WHATEVER reason Denalli didn't get his info to D within the prescribed timeframe is sad. I think there is reasonable expectation of a storage fee, as was stated in the OP, IF you didn't get your info to him in a timely fashion.
I have no personal knowlege of the coms between buyer and seller, BUT as I say I followed the directions and recieved my recievers ,well packaged, both times I joined in.

I can't imagine having to deal with all the emails ,questions and potential stings ops from barry's kids for a $15.00 per unit profit.

IF you guys can't see that BE was hooking us up with Pars recievers for a good bit less than Pars was getting from his peicemeal gunbroker sales. I don't know what to say.
I'm sorry Denalli didn't get his reciever, but it takes TWO to make a deal.
Why should someone being legaly responsible, hang on to a registered item for someone else for free ,after the origional paperwork was not in order and harsh words have been spoken?

I do think Denalli should have eventualy got his reciever, OR funds back minus the pain in the ass fee deduction.
BUT after doing 499 of us a real square, I can understand BE's position as well.

Sad that this is what gets remembered. BE did alot of us real good, and my current comp FAL is built on one of those recievers, with an Imbel kit I got from Pat bout a month before he left us.

Exactly, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

12v71
December 01, 2015, 21:12
So just for speculation, if I put together a receiver group buy, how many of you would be on board?

I would be on it. But certain members have impugned that this is just a chance to steal now. Sad.
I think Denali screwed himself, you don't wait 2 years to start squalling, and I think he is the one with the comm problem.

Erik the Red
December 02, 2015, 10:16
I would be on it. But certain members have impugned that this is just a chance to steal now. Sad.
I think Denali screwed himself, you don't wait 2 years to start squalling, and I think he is the one with the comm problem.

Exactly! David had hundreds of thousands of dollars go through his company bank account and then right back out, to buy the receivers. If he was a thief, wouldn't you think that he would have kept all of that money? Nope he didn't.
He produced several outstanding group buys and this is the only thing that anyone has a complaint about. I'm sure there's a lot more to this "receiver issue" then what Denali is saying. I know David, and he is not the kind of guy to get into a shouting match on a forum about this sort of thing. This is between the two of them. It would be nice to see David respond on here, but honestly, I don't think it would help at all.

-Erik

DENALIAKITAS
December 09, 2015, 10:32
No this has not been resolved. To date nothing. He has screwed me, period. Once again I will clarify that I did not wait all this time to contact him, I have been trying to contact him all along with no replies, not one since april of 13 when he admitted he f'd up. He messed up on my order and he ADMITTED in a PM he messed up on my order and then stated that he wouldn't charge me any storage fees because of it. (I still have the PM) After saying he wasn't charging me storage fees, which I have his statement in writing in a PM from him, he is now according to his "buddy" Erik the Red using storage fees as his excuse for not sending me my receiver. Its bullshit either way and to this day he has never replied to any of my PM's emails etc. He is a COWARD of the first order for not even facing me here or in private.

AZ Dave
December 09, 2015, 11:51
I'm amazed at how people justify theft. It's not like storing a vehicle. Throw the frame in the safe and lock it up! I would involve every law enforcement agency possible even BATFE. This is theft of a firearm. I guess his honor means nothing to him. I would turn up the heat and smoke this pos out!

2barearms
December 09, 2015, 15:28
I can assure you that my reputation is worth a whole helluva lot more than any
$500.00 deal. If there is another side to this story I'd damn sure like to read
it right here. Silence in this case is an indictment.

notfrommt
December 09, 2015, 15:41
even BATFE. This is theft of a firearm.


I would disagree with this assertion and advise caution when making this claim. If the receiver never transferred, Black Elk could claim that he felt that the recipient was disqualified from purchasing this item (based on behaviour or language) and stopped the process. If there was no transfer there wouldn't be anything for the ATF to do other than verify disposition, and if he gave up his FFL there would be even less for them to look at.

Good luck getting local LEO to do anything with a civil claim such as this.

Black Elk's response would carry a lot of water in my opinion, but I understand why he doesn't reply. This topic is starting to get a Judge Mablean feel to it.

Flypaper
December 09, 2015, 15:45
I would disagree with this assertion and advise caution when making this claim. If the receiver never transferred, Black Elk could claim that he felt that the recipient was disqualified from purchasing this item (based on behaviour or language) and stopped the process. If there was no transfer there wouldn't be anything for the ATF to do other than verify disposition, and if he gave up his FFL there would be even less for them to look at.

Good luck getting local LEO to do anything with a civil claim such as this.

Black Elk's response would carry a lot of water in my opinion, but I understand why he doesn't reply. This topic is starting to get a Judge Mablean feel to it.

There is still theft.... Or was the money returned ?
Either way it's a bad deal.

notfrommt
December 09, 2015, 18:26
Either way it's a bad deal.

Yes, it looks like nobody is happy with this deal.

meltblown
December 09, 2015, 18:42
Never understood group buys here. :circlejerk: If the sponsor or whomever makes a little no foul. Time is money. If that receiver existed and payment was tendered, I would gladly pay the $500 back. Because in my mind, $500 is never lost in the innies and outies.

richbug
December 10, 2015, 07:45
Black Elk had time to leave negative feedback a month ago, but none to offer any insight on this issue. Fairly damning from my perspective as an outsider.


That said group buys on here seem to turn into a big circle jerk.

one hand clapping
December 10, 2015, 08:39
I must dissagree with that. I have been in three group buys here, and it went quite smoothly. several recievers per GB

notfrommt
December 10, 2015, 10:06
I must dissagree with that. I have been in three group buys here, and it went quite smoothly. several recievers per GB

+1

I have done two; one for Surefire flash hiders and one for Israeli bipod couplers. I thought both went well, but neither were on the scale of Black Elk's. I guess thats why I respect what he pulled off, despite this latest revelation.

djfin
December 10, 2015, 12:38
I would disagree with this assertion and advise caution when making this claim. If the receiver never transferred, Black Elk could claim that he felt that the recipient was disqualified from purchasing this item (based on behaviour or language) and stopped the process. If there was no transfer there wouldn't be anything for the ATF to do other than verify disposition, and if he gave up his FFL there would be even less for them to look at.

Good luck getting local LEO to do anything with a civil claim such as this.

Black Elk's response would carry a lot of water in my opinion, but I understand why he doesn't reply. This topic is starting to get a Judge Mablean feel to it.

Do you really believe what you just posted ? Based on the PM's that have be posted he would have a very hard time with a claim as you suggest. Based on his PM's where he stated that "He screwed up and would not be charging any storage fee on this deal" he has a real problem on his hands if the matter is pressed. He took the money and did not deliver the receiver. That's the very definition of theft. The fact that his license is now expired does not matter. At the time of this transaction he did have a license. When a member here tried to rip me off I had no problem getting the feds involved and that was a "parts" kit and not a firearm. If it was my money/receiver I know that I would pursue this.

notfrommt
December 10, 2015, 13:58
Do you really believe what you just posted ?

Yes, that's why I posted it.



I had no problem getting the feds involved

I can believe that, but it sure as hell wouldn't be my way to solve issues. Of course, both recievers I was sold by Black Elk showed up as expected because I can follow simple instructions, and I can demonstrate patience without being a dick about it.



I know that I would pursue this.

I probably would too, but I don't see how calling the ATF on a failed transaction is going to resolve this, particularly when an FFL has every right to shut down a transaction if they want to.


Black Elk, please pay the man, and if you did please let us know.

djfin
December 10, 2015, 16:21
I can believe that, but it sure as hell wouldn't be my way to solve issues. Of course, both recievers I was sold by Black Elk showed up as expected because I can follow simple instructions, and I can demonstrate patience without being a dick about it.

As has been shown by the postings of the PM'S Black Elk sent he admitted the he screwed up to the point that he was not going to charge any storage charges on this transaction. After he admitted he was at fault why is the OP being a dick about anything. The OP has been trying for two years to get his property. I think that shows a lot of patience on his part. And any bullshit about Black Elk being able to refuse the transfer because the buyer was not "fit" is just that BULLSHIT. Black Elk sent PM's admitting his error. Way past time to make this right. Send the receiver or the money with two years interest or just admit to the theft. And FYI getting the fed's involved is not my first or even my second choice but after two years it would be my next choice.

fireplug
December 16, 2015, 18:39
I agree,a theft does not go away even 2 year's later.Black Elk need's to pay the man now.I can believe that, but it sure as hell wouldn't be my way to solve issues. Of course, both recievers I was sold by Black Elk showed up as expected because I can follow simple instructions, and I can demonstrate patience without being a dick about it.

As has been shown by the postings of the PM'S Black Elk sent he admitted the he screwed up to the point that he was not going to charge any storage charges on this transaction. After he admitted he was at fault why is the OP being a dick about anything. The OP has been trying for two years to get his property. I think that shows a lot of patience on his part. And any bullshit about Black Elk being able to refuse the transfer because the buyer was not "fit" is just that BULLSHIT. Black Elk sent PM's admitting his error. Way past time to make this right. Send the receiver or the money with two years interest or just admit to the theft. And FYI getting the fed's involved is not my first or even my second choice but after two years it would be my next choice.

2barearms
December 17, 2015, 11:33
I agree,a theft does not go away even 2 year's later.Black Elk need's to pay the man now.

Yep. You screw me out of $500.00 and it is still stolen 2 years later. However
He actually didn't wait 2 years he simply brought it to our intention at that
stage of the game. I can't imagine being so hard up that I couldn't come up
the guys money to save my reputation or to defend my action or lack there of.

notfrommt
December 17, 2015, 11:42
A response from Black Elk would require NO effort on his part and would go a long way toward correcting everyones growing negative perception of this singular transaction.

fireplug
December 18, 2015, 18:08
I am actually surprised he has not said anything yet,maybe he never even come's on this site anymore.All this over $500.00,Black Elk need's too just give a receiver or refund the money simple stuff.

gunplumber
December 18, 2015, 18:46
I don't get it either. I don't know either party and personally avoid group buys (personal preference). But it seems to me that people are trying to make this far more complicated than it is.

The buyer either

A. got the item he paid for or
B. got his purchase price refunded.

If A or B happened, the seller fulfilled his contract.

If neither A nor B happened, the seller did not fulfill his contract. And is therefore, a cheat and thief.

If a member is a cheat and a thief, that bears periodic reminder, so that others can consider that fact in their buying and selling decisions.

I'm really not seeing how anything other than A or B is relevant. That the buyer sent the money, and the seller received the money, does not appear to be in dispute.

That one or both parties are nice guy, and kind to puppies and kittens - so what? What possible bearing does it have on fulfilling A or B?

gunplumber
December 19, 2015, 09:59
State probably has something along the lines of a mechanics/artisans lean.

I know there are abandoned issues with storage and rentals. But they all start with something like "payment is more than 10 days in arrears". At that point it becomes abandoned. But here no payment was in arrears.

Arizona requires unclaimed property to be turned over to the state, where they will auction it and keep the money. Pretty cool racket.

juanni
December 19, 2015, 14:32
State probably has something along the lines of a mechanics/artisans lien.



You, your, you're and all. :p



.............juanni

gunplumber
December 19, 2015, 14:39
(GP's face reddens in embarrassment)

tdb59
December 19, 2015, 15:14
(GP's face reddens in embarrassment)

Is self cudgeling in order ?


:angel:

fireplug
December 19, 2015, 16:17
The buyer in this instance did not abandon his receiver,the seller never shipped it too him,so that's theft plain and simple.Anything over $250.00 is GRAND THEFT.....The seller is a thief.I own a family business started in 1952. We build all kinds of stuff, repair, service and install. Currently four businesses under one corporate name. I have a sign posted on premises that states our policy for abandoned items. What it says and what I do are not always the same. Have some items have not heard from customer in years waiting safely for them to call. Others adhere to the six month of no contact storage fees begin and at 18 months item is forfeited for storage. All it takes to avoid that is a phone call or email explain issue and won't enforce.

Recently gave an item to the son of a man who didn't know died five years ago. His property has been in my storage rack for over a decade. Was always a good client, wondered why dropped off radar. His son was stunned still had his dad's item and returned in restored condition and didn't even charge for what I did. Made big money off his dad while alive. Some clients according to situation will dispose of their items exactly one year from point are considered legally abandoned.

Now have a bunch of batteries that belong to a major telecom. One of their subcontractors hired me to install and then bankrupted. Have contacted the telecom three times in writing have their property and want to return or will install if they will pay for labor. Due to bankruptcy issue they say can't take back as off their books and on subcontractors books as inventory. Judge says he is not interested in some batteries and I should dispose of them. Problem is its over $10,000 worth of high end batteries that require specialized hazmat disposal. Don't want to pitch 10k in batteries, don't like having someone else's property and have no idea how to handle. Afraid to sell, longer they sit more they are damaged, have exceeded telecoms date for installation as not allowed to install batteries over a year old, afraid when judge gets around to finally disposing of case may change mind when sees actual value.

Everyone needs a written and posted procedure for abandoned property. Leave a car at a mechanic for six months and see if still there. It won't be. Dealers have signs say not responsible for items left in car. Every case is different and without all facts, hard to judge someone a thief.

notfrommt
December 19, 2015, 22:37
The buyer in this instance did not abandon his receiver,the seller never shipped it too him,so that's theft plain and simple.Anything over $250.00 is GRAND THEFT.....The seller is a thief.

We know very little of what actually happened, but perception is reality.

Right Side Up
December 19, 2015, 23:40
Give it up. There is enough info to make an informed decision.

gunplumber
December 20, 2015, 09:21
We know very little of what actually happened

A. The buyer paid for the item
B. the seller did not ship the item

Which of these two , do you believe to be in dispute? What additional information do you need to determine that the seller is a cheat and a thief?

fireplug
December 20, 2015, 11:07
It's amazing how many folk's here on this site actually have no problem with someone stealing a member's bought and paid for item.

gunplumber
December 20, 2015, 11:21
Or the amount of equivocation and obfuscations submitted, if the member in question is perceived as a "nice guy" or "fun to drink beer with."

I guess that's one of the advantages of me being and anti-social curmudgeon. My analysis remains unadulterated.

slavicshooter
December 20, 2015, 12:20
"An":biggrin:

gunplumber
December 20, 2015, 12:35
(sigh)

I've been editing blueprints since 0500. Not an excuse, but perhaps mitigation?

fireplug
December 20, 2015, 12:44
It does have it's benefit's Mark,even though you come off on some people the wrong way,at least you are honest and fair about your dealing's with the member's.Word's are just that,but stealing from somebody like Black Elk did
is just wrong..... Or the amount of equivocation and obfuscations submitted, if the member in question is perceived as a "nice guy" or "fun to drink beer with."

I guess that's one of the advantages of me being and anti-social curmudgeon. My analysis remains unadulterated.

ftierson
December 20, 2015, 15:24
(sigh)

I've been editing blueprints since 0500. Not an excuse, but perhaps mitigation?

:)

Forrest

notfrommt
December 20, 2015, 16:02
A. The buyer paid for the item
B. the seller did not ship the item

Which of these two , do you believe to be in dispute? What additional information do you need to determine that the seller is a cheat and a thief?

All I have read is one side of the story. Black Elk won't respond publicly to these allegations, so that means the allegations are true? I'm finding it hard to believe based on my doing business with him twice without an issue, and not because of friendship. I have never met the man.

I am interested in this topic only to see where it ends up. If it should prove true that Black Elk is a cheat and a thief then I won't buy anything from him again. I will say that his silence is disappointing; it seems uncharacteristic. I hope it's not due to illness.

4duece
December 20, 2015, 16:22
The hell with him. He doesn't have the balls to show up here after the fact. Most thieves dont. I'm glad you can piss $500 away and shrug it off. Us common folks cant.

308/223shooter
December 20, 2015, 16:51
All I have read is one side of the story. Black Elk won't respond publicly to these allegations, so that means the allegations are true? I'm finding it hard to believe based on my doing business with him twice without an issue, and not because of friendship. I have never met the man.

I am interested in this topic only to see where it ends up. If it should prove true that Black Elk is a cheat and a thief then I won't buy anything from him again. I will say that his silence is disappointing; it seems uncharacteristic. I hope it's not due to illness.

So, what if he is quite ill and unable to respond? What if he has been in hospital the past few months and we didn't know? Perhaps a member who knows him well enough, can contact him and check to see that he's ok, and ask why he won't respond?

4x401
December 20, 2015, 21:08
So, what if he is quite ill and unable to respond? What if he has been in hospital the past few months and we didn't know? Perhaps a member who knows him well enough, can contact him and check to see that he's ok, and ask why he won't respond?

To my knowledge he's neither ill, nor hospitalized...as to why he won't respond I can't say because I don't occupy his brain..:|

brunop
December 21, 2015, 11:48
The seller told me in writing that he stated (in writing) to participants of the group buy that they would provide an FFL and shipping directions in an expeditious timeframe, or he would charge a $5/day "storage" fee. He claims that he stored said item for more than 100 days, so he owes the buyer neither a refund nor a receiver.

It's clear to me that he's embarrassed by the fact that he thinks he doesnt have the $500 to do the right thing. I would never do business with him - in spite of the fact that he got me my receivers without delay.

djfin
December 21, 2015, 12:08
The seller also sent PM's were he admitted that he screwed up to the point that he was NOT charging ANY storage charges on this transaction. Check earlier posts for copies of his PM. After stating that he was not charging storage because of "his screw ups" it is pure bullshit to use storage charges as a excuse for stealing. Send the receiver or the money period.

DENALIAKITAS
January 02, 2016, 23:03
Just and update.......


Still nothing to date no response no nothing. His last activity here on this forum as of this writing was December 30, 2015 20:49 so he continues to check in on this forum but hasn't the honesty, integrity, morality, or the intestinal fortitude to respond to any of my PM's or posts.

2barearms
January 03, 2016, 00:28
Just and update.......


Still nothing to date no response no nothing. His last activity here on this forum as of this writing was December 30, 2015 20:49 so he continues to check in on this forum but hasn't the honesty, integrity, morality, or the intestinal fortitude to respond to any of my PM's or posts.

Seems to me that there is something wrong with this guy. Why would you
come on here (log in) and not reply with your side of this. Apparently He's
gone over to the Dark Side.

fireplug
January 03, 2016, 09:05
Nothing wrong with him he just does not care about making it right.Washed his hand's of this event.....Seems to me that there is something wrong with this guy. Why would you
come on here (log in) and not reply with your side of this. Apparently He's
gone over to the Dark Side.

2barearms
January 03, 2016, 10:23
Nothing wrong with him he just does not care about making it right.Washed his hand's of this event.....

So......if I steal something from someone here I can just wait it out and
wash my hands of it?

gunplumber
January 03, 2016, 10:26
So......if I steal something from someone here I can just wait it out and
wash my hands of it?

Apparently.

I don't understand why he hasn't been banned.

Or at least a "THIEF" label placed under his icon.

2barearms
January 03, 2016, 11:58
Apparently.

I don't understand why he hasn't been banned.

Or at least a "THIEF" label placed under his icon.

It appears that doing the right thing doesn't mean much to the younger
folks anymore. The Thief moniker would be interesting.

EPC WN
January 03, 2016, 12:07
It appears that doing the right thing doesn't mean much to the younger
folks anymore.

This part of your statement is wrong. You can check my feedback and others to get back on track.

brunop
January 03, 2016, 12:53
Apparently.

I don't understand why he hasn't been banned.

Or at least a "THIEF" label placed under his icon.

Gary's point is that if he gets banned, he's 'off the hook' here - like "done and dusted...".

The "Thief" thing is interesting, but I don't know what the legal liability with libel or slander claims would be. None of this is my call - I already asked Gary why we didn't ban him.

gunplumber
January 03, 2016, 13:11
The "Thief" thing is interesting, but I don't know what the legal liability with libel or slander claims would be.


Based on the evidence provided, Black Elk is a liar, a cheat and a thief.

In cases of libel & slander, truth is an affirmative defense (except in England).

ftierson
January 03, 2016, 13:19
In cases of libel & slander, truth is an affirmative defense (except in England).

Well, I'm not so sure that such is the case here in the good ole US of A anymore either.

Just sayin'...

Forrest

2barearms
January 03, 2016, 14:02
This part of your statement is wrong. You can check my feedback and others to get back on track.

I don't have to check anything. Just because a 20 something like you does
the right thing doesn't mean there aren't issues. It also doesn't mean that old goats won't try to screw you either js.

4duece
January 03, 2016, 19:32
Seems to me that there is something wrong with this guy. Why would you
come on here (log in) and not reply with your side of this. Apparently He's
gone over to the Dark Side.

Maybe he is Cate Jenner in disguise, and ashamed to post here anymore .

EPC WN
January 04, 2016, 13:07
I don't have to check anything. Just because a 20 something like you does
the right thing doesn't mean there aren't issues. It also doesn't mean that old goats won't try to screw you either js.

This is true. Blanket statements are almost always bunk. I'd bet that Black Elk is older than I, so if I said "It seems like old guys just don't do what's right anymore" that you and almost everybody on this site would be included in that statement as well. Jussayin'. This is a great place. Weeding out the fuggs is something that gets done by the folks that dwell here fairly well. It sucks the OP has been screwed over, but he also just saved a countless number of boofings by outing the guy.

308/223shooter
January 04, 2016, 18:15
This is true. Blanket statements are almost always bunk. I'd bet that Black Elk is older than I, so if I said "It seems like old guys just don't do what's right anymore" that you and almost everybody on this site would be included in that statement as well. Jussayin'. This is a great place. Weeding out the fuggs is something that gets done by the folks that dwell here fairly well. It sucks the OP has been screwed over, but he also just saved a countless number of boofings by outing the guy.

Still have to wonder, why just this ONE member? He sold a lot of those receivers, to many of the members here, including myself. Far as I know the only member who got beggered was Denali.

2barearms
January 04, 2016, 20:20
Still have to wonder, why just this ONE member? He sold a lot of those receivers, to many of the members here, including myself. Far as I know the only member who got beggered was Denali.

You'd have to ask him. He apparently acknowledged the problem and refused
to deal with it.

Right Side Up
January 04, 2016, 20:31
Still have to wonder, why just this ONE member? He sold a lot of those receivers, to many of the members here, including myself. Far as I know the only member who got beggered was Denali.

The prisons are full of guys that only committed one crime.

Jaxxas
January 04, 2016, 20:52
Don't know any of the parties involved, and though I'm normally quick to judge, the only vote I have is with my $, and I don't risk $ needlessly.

DENALIAKITAS
January 05, 2016, 18:26
Again he has checked in on this site (Last Activity: January 03, 2016 02:31 ) but nadda.

brunop
January 06, 2016, 02:32
What pisses me off is him telling me that he had the "I'm charging storage fees" excuse when, in fact, he actually stated that due to his mistake he wasn't charging those.

Like I wouldn't find that out?


He knows he's done wrong, or he would say something when he checked into the Files and looks at this thread. JMNSHO.

DENALIAKITAS
January 06, 2016, 15:39
Anyone know of any other forums he frequents? THanks

fireplug
January 06, 2016, 18:41
Even if he did,$500.00 dollar's to store a little receiver.And it's funny how he say's the storage fee amounted too exactly what the receiver cost....LOLWhat pisses me off is him telling me that he had the "I'm charging storage fees" excuse when, in fact, he actually stated that due to his mistake he wasn't charging those.

Like I wouldn't find that out?


He knows he's done wrong, or he would say something when he checked into the Files and looks at this thread. JMNSHO.

fireplug
January 06, 2016, 18:43
I would look for him on ARF com. I am not a member there,but I will bet he is...Anyone know of any other forums he frequents? THanks

DENALIAKITAS
January 10, 2016, 22:49
Black Elk keeps checking in but to yellow to respond Last Activity: January 08, 2016 13:42

fireplug
January 23, 2016, 14:28
Looks like you can forget about a refund or the receiver,sad I know that's why I will never do a group buy ,to many chance's of a mix-up or theft.

12v71
January 23, 2016, 16:24
Looks like you can forget about a refund or the receiver,sad I know that's why I will never do a group buy ,to many chance's of a mix-up or theft.
So... Before you get too judgemental, you want to tell us about your L1A1 buy where you just disappeared? It's in your reviews and I remember the sale thread.

Flypaper
January 23, 2016, 16:32
So... Before you get too judgemental, you want to tell us about your L1A1 buy where you just disappeared? It's in your reviews and I remember the sale thread.

I remember that also.
The thread might disappear but the memory doesn't.

2barearms
January 25, 2016, 07:53
So... Before you get too judgemental, you want to tell us about your L1A1 buy where you just disappeared? It's in your reviews and I remember the sale thread.

Yes, I'd like to know.

4x401
January 25, 2016, 17:42
So... Before you get too judgemental, you want to tell us about your L1A1 buy where you just disappeared? It's in your reviews and I remember the sale thread.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yup, we all have skeletons...

"Let he who be Without sin, cast the first stone." :]

raubvogel
January 25, 2016, 20:32
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yup, we all have skeletons...

"Let he who be Without sin, cast the first stone." :]

That so makes me think of a Monty Python and the Life of Brian scene

4x401
January 26, 2016, 23:49
Looks like you can forget about a refund or the receiver,sad I know that's why I will never do a group buy ,to many chance's of a mix-up or theft.

What, no more helpful Insight there buttplug??:confused:

DENALIAKITAS
April 18, 2016, 19:05
Just dropping in with an update.......... still no response from the coward.

fireplug
April 18, 2016, 19:39
Another smart comment by a fagg..t that hide's behind his computer.What, no more helpful Insight there buttplug??:confused:

12v71
April 18, 2016, 20:04
Another smart comment by a fagg..t that hide's behind his computer.
So, you here to tell us about the L1A1 buy?

Elkaholic
April 18, 2016, 20:53
Another smart comment by a fagg..t that hide's behind his computer.
I've met the man in person, and a couple of his kids. I did not get the impression that he liked other men in a gay kind of way. I am here to say that the man would say to your face anything he types.

I'm sensing a little :butthurt: with you

tdb59
April 18, 2016, 21:09
Another smart comment by a fagg..t that hide's behind his computer.

What would have shlomo done with this ?

hmmmmm...

The apostrophe would denote possession, so maybe a hide owns a behind ?

What type of hide ?

Cow hide ?

Horse hide ?

Both would have a behind, usually called the rump...

Yup.

Must be possession of :butthurt:



....

4x401
April 18, 2016, 21:38
This so called "jackass" , wants to know which of you knuckleheads kicked over a rock today??:rofl::rofl:

4markk
April 18, 2016, 21:58
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yup, we all have skeletons...

"Let he who be Without sin, cast the first stone." :]

OK .....

Where's the stoning????? :rumprider: I haven't been to a good stoning in awhile!!!!:fugkallyall:

4x401
April 18, 2016, 22:15
OK .....

Where's the stoning????? :rumprider: I haven't been to a good stoning in awhile!!!!:fugkallyall:

:idea: Start your own in the basement! :D

4x401
April 18, 2016, 22:18
What would have shlomo done with this ?

hmmmmm...

The apostrophe would denote possession, so maybe a hide owns a behind ?

What type of hide ?

Cow hide ?

Horse hide ?

Both would have a behind, usually called the rump...

Yup.

Must be possession of :butthurt:



....

The depth of your thinking is awe inspiring some times. :bow:

gunplumber
April 19, 2016, 08:09
What would have shlomo done with this ?
....

Did you mean . . .

What would shlomo have done with this?

meh, I've been parsing this one and can't decide. modal + past participle (conditional).

Past perfect should be in the “if” clause, and the conditional perfect in the “then” clause, but as a question, it doesn't 'zactly apply.

4markk
April 19, 2016, 08:41
:idea: Start your own in the basement! :D

I was expecting better. So disappointed!!!! :whiskey:


Did you mean . . .

What would shlomo have done with this?

meh, I've been parsing this one and can't decide. modal + past participle (conditional).

Past perfect should be in the “if” clause, and the conditional perfect in the “then” clause, but as a question, it doesn't 'zactly apply.

I prefer the archaic form. Conversation sounded so much more elegant in the 18th century. Besides, it makes me sound like a much more learned man (that's ˈlɜrnəd as opposed to ˈlɜrnd).

gunplumber
April 19, 2016, 08:52
it makes me sound like a much more learned man (that's ˈlɜrnəd as opposed to ˈlɜrnd).

I take offense at your assumption that "learned" need etymological erudition.

ETA Or do I take offense by your assumption. . .. ?

Hmm. I was out feeding the horses after writing that and it was nagging me (the grammar, not the horse).

I am offended by . ..
I take offense with . . .
I take offense at . . ..

notfrommt
April 19, 2016, 09:41
it was nagging me

Nice!!

raubvogel
April 19, 2016, 10:55
I take offense at your assumption that "learned" need etymological erudition.

ETA Or do I take offense by your assumption. . .. ?

Hmm. I was out feeding the horses after writing that and it was nagging me (the grammar, not the horse).

I am offended by . ..
I take offense with . . .
I take offense at . . ..

Do your horses speak old or modern English?

tdb59
April 19, 2016, 11:01
Did you mean . . .

What would shlomo have done with this?

meh, I've been parsing this one and can't decide. modal + past participle (conditional).

Past perfect should be in the “if” clause, and the conditional perfect in the “then” clause, but as a question, it doesn't 'zactly apply.

That is the manner in which I first typed the phrase. I was uncertain, so altered it.


:)

Forgive me, as I scored a measly 78th percentile in the English portion of the ASVAB, and it seems as if that were 4 decades ago....


oh.....

:wink:

tdb59
April 19, 2016, 11:02
Do your horses speak old or modern English?

Perhaps Old English with an island accent ? Shetland ...?




.

4x401
April 19, 2016, 11:25
ASVAB, and it seems as if that were 4 decades ago..

I took that my junior year to get out of class. Ended up being in the top 5% of the 230 that took it....That Summer I received a multitude of unannounced visits from every branch of the military laying down the hard sell to join. Scared the crap out of me. :rofl:

slavicshooter
April 19, 2016, 12:58
" Scared the crap out of me, so, I shit my pants".:):tongue:

4x401
April 19, 2016, 15:18
Well....different stories, but essentially the same result. :D

4x401
April 19, 2016, 15:21
So, you here to tell us about the L1A1 buy?

I've met the man in person, and a couple of his kids. I did not get the impression that he liked other men in a gay kind of way. I am here to say that the man would say to your face anything he types.

I'm sensing a little :butthurt: with you

What would have shlomo done with this ?

hmmmmm...

The apostrophe would denote possession, so maybe a hide owns a behind ?

What type of hide ?

Cow hide ?

Horse hide ?

Both would have a behind, usually called the rump...

Yup.

Must be possession of :butthurt:



....

Buttplugs sending his vitriol through pm as opposed to speaking in thread. Hope you guys are getting his love too. :love::rofl:

2barearms
April 19, 2016, 18:59
Buttplugs sending his vitriol through pm as opposed to speaking in thread. Hope you guys are getting his love too. :love::rofl:

I suppose this portends hurt butt.

4x401
April 19, 2016, 19:07
I suppose this portends hurt butt.


I suppose. But its not really importend to me. :whistling:

brunop
April 19, 2016, 19:37
:]

ALL FAL
April 20, 2016, 00:25
So None of the Oregon bunch has had contact with him? Rich? do you know where he lives??

Bad deal when this kind of thing happens, why did he skip like that with No answers?

4x401
April 20, 2016, 10:33
So None of the Oregon bunch has had contact with him? Rich? do you know where he lives??

Bad deal when this kind of thing happens, why did he skip like that with No answers?

I know he moved. Haven't heard from him in several months.

Trypcil
April 20, 2016, 11:09
Sometimes people move on. If I order an item, I pay for it and take delivery. I will not leave an item with a vendor, after I have paid for it - nor will I expect another to look after my stuff - unless I am married to them(!). Perhaps BE just moved on, I suspect that he did - to leave your stuff at another's, whatever it maybe, is simply asking for trouble - I call it taking responsibility for MY stuff - there are way to many covetous cretins out there to be casual with one's valuables. I suspect BE is simply done with this, probably isn't even concerned - after all it is a little late!
Moral of the story is - If you pay for something, take immediate possession of it!

4x401
April 20, 2016, 18:54
Sometimes people move on. If I order an item, I pay for it and take delivery. I will not leave an item with a vendor, after I have paid for it - nor will I expect another to look after my stuff - unless I am married to them(!). Perhaps BE just moved on, I suspect that he did - to leave your stuff at another's, whatever it maybe, is simply asking for trouble - I call it taking responsibility for MY stuff - there are way to many covetous cretins out there to be casual with one's valuables. I suspect BE is simply done with this, probably isn't even concerned - after all it is a little late!
Moral of the story is - If you pay for something, take immediate possession of it!

Be careful friend, having such an opinion will bring the wrath of many here...Surprised it hasn't already...:) :shitstorm:

4x401
April 20, 2016, 20:27
So where's that mouthy punk Buttplug?? Seems all he can do is call people fags and :blahblah:...Whats his L1A1 story??

Crazy 8's in this post....:)

12v71
April 20, 2016, 23:42
So where's that mouthy punk Buttplug?? Seems all he can do is call people fags.Whats his L1A1 story??

Crazy 8's in this post....:)

IIRC, He posted "I'll take it" and just disappeared. Can't remember who the seller was. But, Mr. Plug just walked out on it.

4x401
April 21, 2016, 07:09
IIRC, He posted "I'll take it" and just disappeared. Can't remember who the seller was. But, Mr. Plug just walked out on it.

Nice! Obviously that makes him uniquely qualified to comment about integrity. :rofl:

Exit308
April 24, 2016, 17:28
I just saw this thread. I have done business with BE on several occasions and all was well. No problems.
The group buys went well except for "one" person. 299/1. .0033% unhappy.

Except that one guy that thought he got a fu$#ed up receiver and raised holy hell, only to post later that he chased the barrel threads and all was well, oops.

What strikes me about this is that those that are bitching the loudest about stealing and lack of honor and such, are the same guys that don't mind letting other people pay for the maintenance of this site. Welfare queens. Taking what others pay for. Is there a difference? Hypocrites.

2barearms
April 24, 2016, 17:46
I just saw this thread. I have done business with BE on several occasions and all was well. No problems.
The group buys went well except for "one" person. 299/1. .0033% unhappy.

Except that one guy that thought he got a fu$#ed up receiver and raised holy hell, only to post later that he chased the barrel threads and all was well, oops.

What strikes me about this is that those that are bitching the loudest about stealing and lack of honor and such, are the same guys that don't mind letting other people pay for the maintenance of this site. Welfare queens. Taking what others pay for. Is there a difference? Hypocrites.

So I accuse you of theft. You then say nothing? Really? What does this say
about your character in general. This board isn't about doing a perfect deal
and nothing ever goes wrong, it's how you handle it afterward that makes
you a man of standing (or woman of standing).

Exit308
April 24, 2016, 18:35
Are you accusing ME of theft?
If you are referring to Black Elk, I have no FU%^ING idea why he is not responding to the accusations and bad mouthing. I'm not him, nor do I speak for him. But you and the others have NO first hand knowledge of the transaction.

Here's a thought, maybe after babysitting a couple of hundred transactions, many of those with people completely unable to read and follow simple instructions, or with incompetent transfer agents that don't know the law but think they do, he got tired of it and just said FU^& IT.

But I don't know, just speculating.

I'm not saying what is going on is right, but the people that won't help support this site should fu&*ing relax and take a deep breath.

munchoman
April 24, 2016, 18:41
Here's a thought, maybe after babysitting a couple of hundred transactions, many of those with people completely unable to read and follow simple instructions, or with incompetent transfer agents that don't know the law but think they do, he got tired of it and just said FU^& IT.


Then return the money or ship the receiver, anything else is theft

Exit308
April 24, 2016, 19:08
Then return the money or ship the receiver

That is what I would do.

gunplumber
April 25, 2016, 07:26
Then return the money or ship the receiver, anything else is theft

yep.

Strip away all the bullshit, and that's what remains. Black Elk is a thief. He should be banned.

2barearms
April 25, 2016, 12:54
Are you accusing ME of theft?
If you are referring to Black Elk, I have no FU%^ING idea why he is not responding to the accusations and bad mouthing. I'm not him, nor do I speak for him. But you and the others have NO first hand knowledge of the transaction.

Here's a thought, maybe after babysitting a couple of hundred transactions, many of those with people completely unable to read and follow simple instructions, or with incompetent transfer agents that don't know the law but think they do, he got tired of it and just said FU^& IT.

But I don't know, just speculating.

I'm not saying what is going on is right, but the people that won't help support this site should fu&*ing relax and take a deep breath.

I think you know how to read and comprehend English.

To say that non contributors are stealing is a little over the top. Not shipping a
$500.00 firearm IS however. BTW his ability to multitask was severely inhibited as well. He is not a people person and when confronted with simple
issues blew them up completely out of proportion to the problem at hand.

I don't have any sympathy for BE as He acknowledged the issue and the screwed the guy, it's all documented, so stop with the idea that He didn't
know the issue was unresolved. He has actually logged in numerous times
and choses not to defend himself. This essentially is admission by omission.
If he couldn't handle the task he chose to engage in He should've stayed the hell away from it.

tdb59
April 25, 2016, 16:06
yep.

Strip away all the bullshit, and that's what remains. Black Elk is a thief. He should be banned.

An interesting premise.

No response from BE to defend himself.

Impose a ban, and prevent him from being able to defend himself.

No net result, other than masturbation for the IT department.


:)


.

gunplumber
April 25, 2016, 16:11
Are there any facts in dispute?

Apparently, some here believe that being a thief is ok, if the "excuse" is good enough.

I don't really care what his rationalization for his theft is.

tdb59
April 25, 2016, 16:35
Are there any facts in dispute?

Apparently, some here believe that being a thief is ok, if the "excuse" is good enough.

I don't really care what his rationalization for his theft is.

No dispute of the facts.

Whether it be a case of two fools colliding in the atmosphere, lack of a calendar, theft, mopery with intent to creep, or circumcision of a dangling participle, a $.06 recoupment per view of this thread would reimburse the (delinquent ) injured party.

We could call it the BlackElkBern.

Beating a dead horse and CPR may include similar actions, but no better result.



.

4x401
April 25, 2016, 17:44
No net result, other than masturbation for the IT department.


:)


.

:D:D

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OM5ZXNkWTdE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Exit308
April 25, 2016, 20:43
So if I accused someone of theft and then they say nothing? Really? What does this say
about their character in general. This board isn't about doing a perfect deal
and nothing ever goes wrong, it's how you handle it afterward that makes
you a man of standing (or woman of standing).

fifty, not that hard really, you just forgot to include some critical words.
The correct words in the correct place makes comprehension much easier.

Exit308
April 25, 2016, 20:55
I don't think anyone here thinks theft is OK.

Exit308
April 25, 2016, 21:09
I think you know how to read and comprehend English.

To say that non contributors are stealing is a little over the top.

.

I didn't say it was stealing.

DENALIAKITAS
July 20, 2016, 18:20
Just keeping this alive, still nothing out of him, not a peep.