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View Full Version : ME & TE on an M1


BruceHMX
November 27, 2015, 11:40
A few days ago I decided to sell one of my M1's and a Remington 03. I've had them for years. Never checked the ME & TE on either. Naturally that is one of the first questions that come up when they are for sale.

So I start this am on the hunt for someone local who has the gauges. I have now called 3 gunsmiths and visited one gun shop. The shop looked at me like I had three heads. Know one there knew what ME & TE meant.

I got the same response from the 3 gunsmiths:facepalm: Needless to say they will not be working on any of my guns.

Does anyone have a point of contact for someone in the NOVA, Fredericksburg, Va. area that has these gauges and can check my rifles?

Thanks

gordonm1
November 27, 2015, 13:28
I just bought the throat erosion gauge and I have been able to satisfy buyers on the muzzle condition by sticking a ball round into the muzzle to show how deep the bullet goes.
I'm not near you but I thought you might also be able to sell your gun better if you only find a guy with the throat erosion gauge.

BruceHMX
December 01, 2015, 18:25
Ok so my local FFL that I use for non C&R transfers had the gauges. Took 5 min's if that. Both TE and ME are a tad over 1. It's a 5.8 mil serial range gun that has all Springfield parts and a 55 dated barrel. Nice DAS stock with circle P. Dealer classified it as collector grade. What are these things bringing now? Don't want to act like I have a key to the golden crapper but don't want to be taken advantage of. In other words a fair price.

bubbagump
December 01, 2015, 19:31
Ok so my local FFL that I use for non C&R transfers had the gauges. Took 5 min's if that. Both TE and ME are a tad over 1. It's a 5.8 mil serial range gun that has all Springfield parts and a 55 dated barrel. Nice DAS stock with circle P. Dealer classified it as collector grade. What are these things bringing now? Don't want to act like I have a key to the golden crapper but don't want to be taken advantage of. In other words a fair price.

Ok.

First off I will not comment on the 'collector' value as that is not my game and I could give a flying fark.

That said, the high number receivers are in my experience the best ones, functionally speaking anyway. The low TE and ME numbers, while not guaranteeing that it's a shooter are at least encouraging.

My advice is do not sell.

b.

gordonm1
December 02, 2015, 00:18
CMP doesn't list a price for collector grade any more. They only sell them at auction. I think the last price I saw for them was $1100 a few years back when they had a lot of Greek rifles that had not seen much use.

I would feel safe setting min price at $1100 and going to auction. You can also do the research and see what CMP is getting now at auction. That's more than you paid right? Your gun might not be a true "collector" and just a good shooter. You might get more doing many auctions with a higher minimum.

Impala_Guy
December 02, 2015, 21:32
If you're going to own M1 Garands its best to have a TE gauge yourself if the number is important to you. I can generally tell the condition of a Garand barrel closely enough by the the breech face, the muzzle, and the lands and grooves. post 1947 rifles can have a TE reading of up to "2" when brand new, but a Garand thats been fired any significant amount will show some peening of the breech by the bolt rim / extractor.

BruceHMX
December 03, 2015, 20:34
Thanks for the replies.

I listed the gun on GB today. Started at $1000 no reserve.

See where it goes. If no takers back into the safe.

Don't need the gauges but knew folks would want that information to purchase. My other two Garand's are a 1942 which is all correct and a Navy contract in 7.62. I don't collect Garand's and just felt it was a shame for this one to sit in the safe.

NATIONALIST
December 04, 2015, 18:40
TTI 804- 459-1190 in Ashland will have the gauges you seek ...

Orlando8
December 07, 2015, 19:10
So how can the "Dealer" know its in original configuration? Thats what a Collector Grade is.
It is possible the rifle is a correct grade but how does he know this? Does he know how to identify the manufacture of unmarked Garand parts?? I doubt it
Even if the rifle is a collector or correct grade rifle, without the CMP paperwork stating the grade they wont bring the same $$$as a papered CMP rifle

bubbagump
December 08, 2015, 07:37
So how can the "Dealer" know its in original configuration? Thats what a Collector Grade is.
It is possible the rifle is a correct grade but how does he know this? Does he know how to identify the manufacture of unmarked Garand parts?? I doubt it
Even if the rifle is a collector or correct grade rifle, without the CMP paperwork stating the grade they wont bring the same $$$as a papered CMP rifle

Well, to that the CMP doesn't know if the parts are in fact the original parts the rifle was built with or not. With very, very few exceptions, like for example the two M1s still in grease paper hanging in the Anniston store, these guns are repatriates from overseas. And nobody really knows for sure whether anything has ever been replaced on these guns. It's not like they are nuclear cooling water pumps whose parts and maintenance are cradle-to-grave documented and vaulted.

So yeah, it's a 'if it looks like a duck' process to identify if the parts match. The main diff between correct grade and collector grade is condition. And as to value, well, hard to say which is why CMP sells 'em at auction.

Orlando8
December 08, 2015, 21:02
From the CMP website :
Collector Grade rifles have all original parts as they came from the manufacturer
Correct Grade rifles will have all correct parts for the date of manufacture

There is a big difference between "original" and "correct"

You missed my point though, I doubt the dealer would know the difference between a mixmaster and a correct grade let alone be able to indentify unmarked parts as to manufacture

BruceHMX
December 09, 2015, 16:01
From the CMP website :
Collector Grade rifles have all original parts as they came from the manufacturer
Correct Grade rifles will have all correct parts for the date of manufacture

There is a big difference between "original" and "correct"

You missed my point though, I doubt the dealer would know the difference between a mixmaster and a correct grade let alone be able to indentify unmarked parts as to manufacture

You are assuming a lot about my dealer. The rifle is collector grade. The certificate was lost years ago. The original buyer is currently on the U.S. Army Marksmanship Team. Said rifle was hand picked at Camp Perry in 1997 from several other Collector Grade rifles.

It's up for auction. If know one bids it goes back into the safe. There's no blood in the water, don't have to sell, was just a shame for it to sit in the safe. End of story.

bubbagump
December 09, 2015, 16:38
You are assuming a lot about my dealer. The rifle is collector grade. The certificate was lost years ago. The original buyer is currently on the U.S. Army Marksmanship Team. Said rifle was hand picked at Camp Perry in 1997 from several other Collector Grade rifles.

It's up for auction. If know one bids it goes back into the safe. There's no blood in the water, don't have to sell, was just a shame for it to sit in the safe. End of story.

Yes, the certificate is a non-issue. Even if you had it your average dealer who is not an expert on M1s isn't gonna be able to determine whether the follower, bullet guide or, for that matter, the trigger group even matches, let alone is original. Could have easily been swapped at a later date. And to that the CMP does not even warrant that the parts are original to that rifle, just that they are correct for the rifle. CMP prints lots of certificates, if you buy a service grade rifle you'll get one with your serial number and it'll say on it 'service grade' somewhere. They run 'em off on an HP pen plotter right there at the store when you buy one. In fact if they can authenticate the original sale it would not surprise me if you were able to call 'em up over in Anniston and get 'em to print ya a new one. Especially if you talk nice to the secretaries.

What matters to a collector is the 'correctness' of the parts, are they the right manufacturer, date range, heat lot, revision number etc etc for the rest of the rifle, and of course the condition.

BruceHMX
December 09, 2015, 18:23
Exactly. I have already had a few folks PM me on the auction. The real collector types are asking specific questions. Getting back and saying yup that's what it is and going to watch the auction. Probably not to buy but what their rifles are bringing. Just a thought.

I have only had one guy who did not ask parts questions but only if I had the certificate. I said no, he said fine.

Again if it sells both parties will be happy. If not it awaits another day.

Hollis Wood
December 09, 2015, 18:29
This got me to thinking.

I don't know if I even got a certificate with mine. At least not in the same sense that they do now. I bought it in 1995. I have no memory of any "Certificate" coming with it.

I'll have to look around. I've had a few beers and moved twice since then.:facepalm:

bubbagump
December 09, 2015, 18:39
This got me to thinking.

I don't know if I even got a certificate with mine. At least not in the same sense that they do now. I bought it in 1995. I have no memory of any "Certificate" coming with it.

I'll have to look around. I've had a few beers and moved twice since then.:facepalm:

Give 'em a call. Again if they have a record of the sale they might print ya one.

b.