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gordonm1
November 10, 2015, 23:00
I'm "between jobs" and was going to sell a garand to an FALer so I was going to give him a choice of three service grades. I decided to see what the local Cabela's outpost store would offer for a service grade so I took one into their store to be evaluated. After a about ten minutes with them in the back room they came back out and said they can't offer anything close to the $3000 value they are getting. They suggested going over to the big store in Lacey as the small store is not authorized to offer enough money for it. They did say they offer 70% of the value they come up with.

I had to take this rifle out of the three I was willing to part with.

The rifle is a 1.8 million receiver with blackened heel maybe from lead dipping.
I came up with 1943 for this and the barrel is stamped 1944 and gauges 2. The wood has a lot of texture to it like it was not sanded much and it has a crisp stamp RRAD (Red River Army Depot) and crisp square box "P" over faint circle P and I can see a faint DAS type box where they usually show up that has been almost sanded away during obvious contouring of the stock at the receiver heel area. That's the only smooth area of the stock. The stock is lacking all the usual big dings from oprods and sights usually found on the service grades. It has a scratch along the top of the buttstock that could have been made during the "canning" process for garands put away in sealed barrels. It looks like a metal band that went around all the gun stocks could have made the scratch being removed or installed.

The bolt matches the receiver and it has some masking tape on it and there's lots of WW2 parts on it. The rear sights are updated and it has a later NM stamped oprod.

I figured this to be an unused fresh rebuild from Red River but maybe it was a canned garand also. I'm looking for more info on Red River history and maybe when and where the canning was done, what year's the DAS stamps were used on stocks, and how early a rebuild this could be. I'm curious if anyone else thinks the rifle has high value. I'm not sure why the Cabela guy saw high value.

I think it might be worth spending $25 to have CMP research the gun but maybe not since it's a rebuild. I'm not excited about driving over the Cascades and then maybe get a lowball offer/valuation. If it does have high value I will can it again in my safe.

Lastly, I'm posting here because my CMP Forum registration seems to have expired and registering again I am unable to post.

I'll try to get some pics up this week for those interested.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/gordonm1/IMG_0367_zpsv1e0g6sb.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/gordonm1/IMG_0369_zpsmhkm5nj2.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/gordonm1/IMG_0366_zpsa6kspw3n.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/gordonm1/IMG_0368_zps0h7qrt4t.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j122/gordonm1/IMG_0365_zpsylndpl5y.jpg

Orlando8
November 11, 2015, 07:11
It is nothing more than a common rebuild $900-$950 on a very good day depending on condition and if not Import Marked
Look around at Cablelas, you will see their firearms priced all over. They dont have a clue on value

SPEEDGUNNER
November 11, 2015, 09:07
What you have sounds like a fairly run of the mill post WWII rebuild and could be very desirable as a shooter or a potential restoration. For a shooter to be interested you will need to have the measurement for the Throat Erosion (also known as TE) and the Muzzle Erosion (ME). You can show the ME with a .30-06 round, but you will need a gauge for the TE. With an original barreled receiver you have a good start to a WWII restoration, and the parts needed are available. Depending on how the barrel gauges your rifle could be as low as $650 (if excessive wear) or as high as the $950 suggested if in excellent condition. Good luck with your sale.

Post up some pictures if you can, that will help.

SAFN49
November 11, 2015, 09:35
I have 3 Garands. One is almost exactly like yours, but had a Marlin bbl on it.
Most accurate Garand I have

I would say mine is worth somewhere between $900 ~ $1000.

Shag
November 11, 2015, 11:15
What you have sounds like a fairly run of the mill post WWII rebuild and could be very desirable as a shooter or a potential restoration.

I happen to be in the market for one like that and in state if it is priced reasonable....

gordonm1
November 11, 2015, 12:44
What you have sounds like a fairly run of the mill post WWII rebuild and could be very desirable as a shooter or a potential restoration. For a shooter to be interested you will need to have the measurement for the Throat Erosion (also known as TE) and the Muzzle Erosion (ME). You can show the ME with a .30-06 round, but you will need a gauge for the TE. With an original barreled receiver you have a good start to a WWII restoration, and the parts needed are available. Depending on how the barrel gauges your rifle could be as low as $650 (if excessive wear) or as high as the $950 suggested if in excellent condition. Good luck with your sale.

Post up some pictures if you can, that will help.

I have a throat erosion gauge and it reads 2. I thought it had gauged new until I just checked it again. This helps me accept the 1944 barrel is original to the 1943 receiver.

My reading last night on stocks revealed to me the DAS stamped stocks were put on new rifles in the 50's. My stock seems almost new and the DAS and circle P were sanded away and crisp RRAD and square box P stamped.
The smoother angle on the top of the stock matches an HRA stock in Duff's postwar book but he did not have many examples. There were also Overton rebuild stocks of which I know nothing about. There's no RRAD markings on the receiver legs so I would think its last rebuild came prior to receiver markings around 1964. It seems the 1950's stock post dates canning that went on in the late 40's so the stock scratch is probably not from canning. Kinda fun working through the history though.

Right now I would much prefer this rifle over the CMP rebuilds for all the interesting history and good USGI wood and refinished greenish metal. Just knowing this I would value it $100 over their rebuilds and might get more if auctioned. I should take a $2100 offer from Cabela's if I can get it or auction it off or keep it untouched.

Orlando8
November 11, 2015, 17:22
I have collected , fired and built Garands for many years and have a very good grasp on actual values.
While your rifle is a very nice RRAD rebuild it is not worth anywhere near $2100. If Cabelas will pay that RUN THERE NOW before they change their mind.
I have a RRAD Garand rebuild in every bit as nice condition as yours I received from CMP

gordonm1
November 11, 2015, 21:24
Orlando post a pic if you like. I enjoy garand eye candy.

This is my second best looking service grade over about 10 years of purchasing 11 service grades. They were all purchased over the mail system so I had little say in what came in the box. Most were beat up a lot more but they generally had very good barrels. It's kind of what a lot of people hope to get playing the lottery via mail.

My best looking was the last purchase when they had a ton of Greek rifles that had seen little use. That one looks good and hasn't been rebuilt. There's not much to complain about on it.

Orlando8
November 12, 2015, 05:51
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04854_zps03c5443e.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04854_zps03c5443e.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04857_zps3eff7ae8.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04857_zps3eff7ae8.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04864_zps4cf8811f.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04864_zps4cf8811f.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04855_zps8686d4f9.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04855_zps8686d4f9.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04860_zps3e98133c.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04860_zps3e98133c.jpg.html)

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04858_zps6c80b0d6.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04858_zps6c80b0d6.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04863_zpsdc99340a.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04863_zpsdc99340a.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04861_zps950b9739.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04861_zps950b9739.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04859_zps4c03a0e1.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04859_zps4c03a0e1.jpg.html)

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04863_zpsdc99340a.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04863_zpsdc99340a.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04862_zps1ee5a4a0.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/Garandlover/media/RRAD%20Rebuild/DSC04862_zps1ee5a4a0.jpg.html)

bubbagump
November 12, 2015, 11:13
I have collected , fired and built Garands for many years and have a very good grasp on actual values.
While your rifle is a very nice RRAD rebuild it is not worth anywhere near $2100. If Cabelas will pay that RUN THERE NOW before they change their mind.
I have a RRAD Garand rebuild in every bit as nice condition as yours I received from CMP

Yeah, this is right. If you can get $2k for the rifle take it and don't look back. $900 is more like it.

Insofar as a shooter Garand is concerned, recall that M1 throat erosion gauges indicate per 1/10 of an inch. So a rifle gauging a '2' has 200 thousandths of wear in the throat which is definitely not new condition. Not that some heavily worn barrels don't shoot well, some do but more often they do not. CMP is selling 'special grades' which include a brand new military profile barrel for, I think, $1030.

You're probably right about being an unissued arsenal rebuild. I have one too except mine came in a Korean war era stock. Same poisonous green parkerizing on it. I can't talk to the parts value as I'm not a collector. I've been told that the NM stamped op rods were pretty much standard on the later rebuilds as that's the inventory they had but I cannot confirm this. I did get a Greek repatriate a few years ago from CMP that had a NM op rod, go figure. As near as I can figure it operates pretty much the way they all do.

SteelonSteel
November 12, 2015, 12:31
That's a very nice rifle, a rebuild and ordinary other than the exceptional nice condition and quality wood. I like that color and it is mostly matched in tone.

To me it's a $800-1000 rifle too. If you can get $2k take it and run!!!!!

I hand picked some HRA's with LMR barrels at Perry with they had all the nice Greek AF rifles out. I intended to buy a SA inc. and an HRA, they were selling as new rifles with only the stocks swapped somewhere along the way, pretty much everything else was correct. A guy could buy an HRA and a SA with careful picking in the well filled racks and get them home and swap the stocks and have "correct" rifles.

bubbagump
November 12, 2015, 16:11
That's a very nice rifle, a rebuild and ordinary other than the exceptional nice condition and quality wood. I like that color and it is mostly matched in tone.

To me it's a $800-1000 rifle too. If you can get $2k take it and run!!!!!

I hand picked some HRA's with LMR barrels at Perry with they had all the nice Greek AF rifles out. I intended to buy a SA inc. and an HRA, they were selling as new rifles with only the stocks swapped somewhere along the way, pretty much everything else was correct. A guy could buy an HRA and a SA with careful picking in the well filled racks and get them home and swap the stocks and have "correct" rifles.

I should add that, to me, real USGI Garands are worth every nickle of $2k. Fulton Armory is currently selling 'new' M1s in that price range but these are built on USGI receivers, not built up on new ones. If you figure in what it might cost for a brand-new forged receiver built to US drawing numbers and specs I would guess the cost of making a new one from the ground up might easily top $3k. Ain't nothing simple about a GI receiver, there was a reason they had all the drawing revisions they did.

Point is, while the going rate for these sort of rifles is in the $800-900 range the going rate, imo, does not reflect what it would cost to reproduce the thing in it's entirety. As such I don't plan on parting with any of mine in the near future. And anyone who doesn't own a couple of 'em ought to be asking themselves why not.

b.

Impala_Guy
November 12, 2015, 20:20
The Garand barrels that SA made after about 47 or so had TE that could go up to "2"....when they were brand new. Post war Garands are known for this. Muzzle wear and the overall quality of the bore are a bigger determinant of accuracy IMO.

gordonm1
November 13, 2015, 13:04
Orlando8 it looks like a nice SG but it looks to be a rebarrel, birch stock with walnut handguards, refinished stock. That would put some distance between my gun and yours, in my opinion. I'd take CMP's new wood over what you have there.

The gun I ended up selling was a Danish return with VAR barrel. It came with a "maggot filled looking" Danish beech stock. I bought a CMP stock set for it and turned it from a toad to a princess.

Thanks for chiming in. I think the real important parts of the thread here are that the local Cabela guys are kinda funny and this was a nice looking service grade rifle compared to the ugliness you can get.

gordonm1
November 13, 2015, 13:18
$900-$1000 is what I was originally thinking but the Cabela guy made me stop and write the thread. Maybe this nice SG will go up in value more than the rest. Nice wood is nice to keep and look at too.

bubbagump
November 13, 2015, 17:58
$900-$1000 is what I was originally thinking but the Cabela guy made me stop and write the thread. Maybe this nice SG will go up in value more than the rest. Nice wood is nice to keep and look at too.

Nice wood is definitely, well, nice but until it becomes 'collectible' it probably wont mean much. Not saying it is not collectible it may be for all I know. But given that brand new laser cut stock sets can be had for $150 or so from CMP and really beautiful stocks are available from makers like Wenig for not a lot more it's probably not going to make a huge difference, at least not one measured in thousands.

I understand you needing to sell and all but the way M1s have gone up over the last few years I would hang onto it if at all possible. Sell something else if you can, you may very likely be able to get $2k for it before this is over.

b.

Mark IV
November 19, 2015, 07:38
Read it and weep.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/connie82/garand-ad_zps1sksaefl.jpg

gordonm1
November 19, 2015, 16:17
I'll cry harder for G1 kits from $100 to $800 in 20 years sans receiver.

fnogger
November 20, 2015, 12:01
If we are gonna start crying about old prices I've got a ton of car magazines from teh 50s on. One of my early 70s vintage Road and Tracks has several ads for former race cars like a Porsche 550 for $500... or a 1955 Corvette for the same.

gordonm1
November 23, 2015, 01:00
Nice wood is definitely, well, nice but until it becomes 'collectible' it probably wont mean much. Not saying it is not collectible it may be for all I know. But given that brand new laser cut stock sets can be had for $150 or so from CMP and really beautiful stocks are available from makers like Wenig for not a lot more it's probably not going to make a huge difference, at least not one measured in thousands.

I understand you needing to sell and all but the way M1s have gone up over the last few years I would hang onto it if at all possible. Sell something else if you can, you may very likely be able to get $2k for it before this is over.

b.

I think the point you are making here is a new stock is worth just what a 50 year old stock in new condition is worth. I disagree. What is a 1955 corvette with 0 miles worth today?

Also, I have bought CMP wood and DuPage wood for garands and I'd take a new walnut stock set from the 50's and 60's any day. My pictured gun is not sporting a new unused stock but I do like its condition for it's age. Same age as me and doing better I think.

bubbagump
November 23, 2015, 06:32
I think the point you are making here is a new stock is worth just what a 50 year old stock in new condition is worth. I disagree. What is a 1955 corvette with 0 miles worth today?

Also, I have bought CMP wood and DuPage wood for garands and I'd take a new walnut stock set from the 50's and 60's any day. My pictured gun is not sporting a new unused stock but I do like its condition for it's age. Same age as me and doing better I think.

Well first of all we're not talking about vettes. I have only used about three or four CMP stock sets but they've all been excellent in terms of profile and grain, and they fit nice and snugly. They do need a bit of finish work but that's all I've had to do to them. Have a Boyds set too but it is the larger Korean-era profile, or it was until I took it back down to the normal dimensions but it too is straight-grain solid wood, no jazz at all in it. If you like the old wood, by all means but every one I've ever seen has been a rattle fit and shoots like crap. Wood wants to be a tree after all. Ymmv and probably will.

Orlando8
December 09, 2015, 06:31
Orlando8 it looks like a nice SG but it looks to be a rebarrel, birch stock with walnut handguards, refinished stock. That would put some distance between my gun and yours, in my opinion. I'd take CMP's new wood over what you have there.

.
Stock is not refinished, thats what a original finish birch stock looks like.
FYI its normal to have abirch stock with wlanut handguards on rebuilds. They didnt throw ut perfect;y good handguards when the stock was replaced. That RRAD stock and handguards is worth over twice of what a CMP commercal stock sells for.

SBH
January 05, 2016, 10:52
All Cabela's stuff are over priced. Those guys probably couldn't find a book that had Garand info in it. They ain't got a clue. My friend took an original 1873 Winchester in to get appraised, and they told him it was a real good Italian copy! It had been in the family for over 100 years!? WtH!