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Chemechie
November 07, 2015, 22:55
So, I'm looking to buy a machine gun - my first one, though not my first NFA item.
I'm looking for some comments and feedback about my thoughts and choices:
- Due to weapon cost, ammo cost, and convenience I am looking to start with a pistol caliber weapon - they can be MUCH cheaper than a rifle caliber weapon.
- I am looking for a relatively new design in a common caliber because I want to shot it regularly and not have to worry about it breaking.
- I have semi auto handguns and carbines in several calibers; I am looking at either 9 mm or 45 ACP - any thoughts as to differences in wear, maintenance, or controllability between the 2?
- Any comments about the pros or cons of buying a FA only weapon versus one with a selector allowing SA as well?
- To create broad categories, my choices are: 1. Uzi/ MAC/ Cobray style magazine in grip single handed pistol type weapon, possibly with a folding stock. 2. A Sten gun, with sub options of foreward grip, wood stock, or metal stock - anybody have experience with different Sten handguards and stocks, and how hard are they to change or swap? 3. A forward magazine weapon such as a Tec 9/ KG-99 type weapon, this category also includes Thompson style weapons. 4. Carbine type weapons: Reising, M-2 carbine, etc.

I'm not a big fan of the Uzi/Cobray/ MAC type of weapon and would like to have an option for 2 hand use. I'm leaning away from the Reising and carbine types due to issues I've heard of with age, relatively small (and rare magazines), and feeding. Is anyone familiar with Spitfire Thompsons? I've seen several for sale surprisingly reasonable and WAAYY cheaper than a Thompson or Auto ordnance - which makes me wonder why the difference.

Please give me your thoughts and comment on any experience you have with any of the weapons mentioned here. Thanks for your input.

pre1989
November 07, 2015, 23:56
Im big into Class 3 stuff and Ill share what I have picked up ..

I would stick to guns that have options with them .. UZI /Mac OR m16 /hk auto sear we are talking endless fun ... Mac god the options you have now for them with stocks / mag conversion etc ...

If you can swing a M16 I would frankly do that .. For the money that is a great bang for your buck .. I mean a full auto 7.62x25 or a 5.7 or anything else a 556 AR lower can have slapped on it all aok

I would skip the Tec9 etc .. I own a open bolt one .. Great gun and I love it but on FA I would only get the real one the MP9 which should hopefully be a bit better built ...

The issue you will run into with the MAC and esp the TEC is mags .. Good ones that run are not easy to find esp for the tec9 .

UZI mags are cheep ... I love the UZI but it is very old school and heavy which is good to control but fire one fist the grip safty takes some getting use to .. Why a lot of people taped it down and carry unloaded and just cock and go so to speak ..

For the STEN well as my Class 3 dealer put it not ext a fun gun to fire and your limted on caliber etc

I had the pleasuer of firing a org full auto Sterling mk5 sileced recent I would add that to your list you can find mk5 on GB for not that much


Really if you can fire as much as you can


FYI if you want a MP5 you can get one for not a horrible price .. The catch is it is only a Res Reciver one meaning your stuck with it you cant pop it into say a hk91 or such why the RR guns go for 15 or so and the sear ones hit 20-30 k




oh and ps I owned a Spitfire .. Nice gun but I rather have a MAC10 in 45 ....

But if your looking for a tommy gun well the spitfire fits the bill


PS also bear in mind parts etc for the guns .. UZI/M16/MAC etc parts are pretty easy to find and cheep .. barrels etc .... Bear that in mind with the c&r stuf

BigBoy1
November 08, 2015, 06:41
I have many NFA weapons, both pistol and rifle caliber and they are all classed as Curio and Relics (C&R) by the BATF. The biggest advantage in them is the fact they can be transferred directly to the holder of a 03FFL. With my 03FFL, I can purchase any C&R NFA from any state in the union and have it transferred DIRECTLY to me, payng only one transfer fee. There are no double $200 transfer fees by going with the standard SOT route. (One fee from the holder of the gun to SOT holder in their state, the transfer between SOTs is tax free and then a second fee from the SOT in your state to you.)

Another advantage of the 03FFL, is if you cross state lines with your C&R NFA items, you do NOT have to complete the Form 5320.20 (Transportation of NFA Items). Your 03FFL is all you need as "permission" to transport inter-state with C&R NFA items

A third advantage is that you can get some really cool NFA items. How many MP40s or STEN guns or Beretta MP38s do you see at the range? Most of the time Uzis and MAC are the ones on the firing line. Another advantage is that the C&R NFA items were made to last. They were manufactured by machining the parts from blocks of steel, not by folding and welding sheet metal. In the 45 years I have owned my MP38/42 SMG, I have put many thousands of rounds through the gun and the only problem I have had the gun was the screw holding the sling swivel came out and was lost.

As far as I'm concerned, your can't go wrong by going the C&R NFA route.

K. Funk
November 08, 2015, 07:10
I would look at a Ruger Ac 556. You get a lot of gun for the money. For pistol caliber, Swedish K is a good one. Sterling is another good one for the money. I have had feeding trouble with my Stemple 76/45, it still is not right.

krf

SAFN49
November 08, 2015, 11:07
I agree with KF a Swedish K is a great subgun. You could also look at a S&W 76 or a MK76. They are a little cheaper than a Swedish K.

pre1989
November 08, 2015, 14:33
I would look at a Ruger Ac 556. You get a lot of gun for the money. For pistol caliber, Swedish K is a good one. Sterling is another good one for the money. I have had feeding trouble with my Stemple 76/45, it still is not right.

krf



Issue with the AC556 is ... Ruger will not fixed them .. And full auto parts for them ..Good luck finding them plus a lot of not fun stories of gas issues ... There is a reason they are cheep .

But yep the Swed K and the 76 are good guns .. I would got K as it is a cold war classic

Invictus77
November 08, 2015, 14:44
I know very little about personally NFA stuff, but my neighbor who does and has several just told me yesterday he has a Swedish K on the way. He said for dependability and "bang for the buck" they are awesome. YMMV.

mg34dan
November 09, 2015, 18:24
So, I'm looking to buy a machine gun - my first one, though not my first NFA item.
I'm looking for some comments and feedback about my thoughts and choices:
- Due to weapon cost, ammo cost, and convenience I am looking to start with a pistol caliber weapon - they can be MUCH cheaper than a rifle caliber weapon.
- I am looking for a relatively new design in a common caliber because I want to shot it regularly and not have to worry about it breaking.
- I have semi auto handguns and carbines in several calibers; I am looking at either 9 mm or 45 ACP - any thoughts as to differences in wear, maintenance, or controllability between the 2?
- Any comments about the pros or cons of buying a FA only weapon versus one with a selector allowing SA as well?
- To create broad categories, my choices are: 1. Uzi/ MAC/ Cobray style magazine in grip single handed pistol type weapon, possibly with a folding stock. 2. A Sten gun, with sub options of foreward grip, wood stock, or metal stock - anybody have experience with different Sten handguards and stocks, and how hard are they to change or swap? 3. A forward magazine weapon such as a Tec 9/ KG-99 type weapon, this category also includes Thompson style weapons. 4. Carbine type weapons: Reising, M-2 carbine, etc.

I'm not a big fan of the Uzi/Cobray/ MAC type of weapon and would like to have an option for 2 hand use. I'm leaning away from the Reising and carbine types due to issues I've heard of with age, relatively small (and rare magazines), and feeding. Is anyone familiar with Spitfire Thompsons? I've seen several for sale surprisingly reasonable and WAAYY cheaper than a Thompson or Auto ordnance - which makes me wonder why the difference.

Please give me your thoughts and comment on any experience you have with any of the weapons mentioned here. Thanks for your input.

What is your budget? That's the biggest determining factor.

mg34dan
November 09, 2015, 18:27
Issue with the AC556 is ... Ruger will not fixed them .. And full auto parts for them ..Good luck finding them plus a lot of not fun stories of gas issues ... There is a reason they are cheep.

But yep the Swed K and the 76 are good guns .. I would got K as it is a cold war classic

Colt won't work on civilian owned M16s either. There are plenty of qualified gunsmiths who will work on ACs. As for spare parts, look over on GB. AC556 parts kits are always available.

ncjeeper
November 09, 2015, 19:29
Good entry level squirt gun.
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/ncjeeper-1/DSCF1112_zpsubzfgz8s.jpg (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/ncjeeper-1/media/DSCF1112_zpsubzfgz8s.jpg.html)

Bawana jim
November 10, 2015, 00:43
I like the vector Uzi registered in 22lr,9mm and 45acp. Lots of parts available, magazine are not expensive in 9mm and 9mm is about as cheap a shooting you can reload for. Biggest deal with any full auto is does it run. To many guys fight trying to get guns to run when they could have bought a decent one to begin with.

Will it stay running? No it won't and you need parts like ejector and extractors. All guns break so extra parts are a big deal. Subguns are cheaper to shoot and lots of fun. If I wanted to step up and buy better I would get a Colt M16. No end to the configurations you can make out of them. Cost a lot more but so much more you can do with them.

Zimm
November 10, 2015, 12:13
I used to have an mk760
As far as historical ,it was originally smith&wesson m76 used by seals in nam
600 rpm 36rnd mags Suomi mags work in it .only downside was the stock would wobble on full auto( has full,semi switch).i welded slot to tighten up.wish I still had it:sad:

gska3873
November 10, 2015, 20:25
No experience with them but have you looked at these:

http://www.brpguns.com/stg-u9/

wanneroo
November 10, 2015, 21:15
What I would do if you don't have much experience with these guns is find a place that does machine gun rentals and try as much as you can out. That's what I have been doing, when funds allow I go and shoot all the machine guns I can and now I have a better idea of what would work for me and what makes the most sense.

As far as subguns go, I think a registered receiver Uzi makes the most sense. Very easy guns to understand, plenty of knowledge out there for troubleshooting, tons of parts out there(compared to most other transferables), cheap magazines, etc.

Next I would say one of the MACs with a Lage upper receiver. The Lage receivers revitalized the MAC line of guns.

The MP5 guns are accurate and good fun to shoot. But by the time you get the gun and all the accouterments and such you are probably looking at $30k.

SAFN49
November 10, 2015, 21:43
A MAC was my first full auto. Fun bullet hose, but the trigger sucked. I also had the original Sionics can for it. Wish I still had the can.

I would not recommend a MAC. Get a tube gun, anything except for a Stemple in .45

ercrossfire
November 10, 2015, 23:13
You are in WV. Do yourself a favor and go to the Knob Creek MG Shoot, Apr 8-10, 2016 in KY. You can watch the subgun matches and rent nearly everything you have already mentioned. It's a small investment in time and money, before you make a much larger investment in waiting time and money. You might even find a good deal on something there.

tommygun2000
November 11, 2015, 00:28
Vector full size Uzi is all you'll ever need. Unlikely you'll break it and if you do there are lots of parts available.
They can be changed from 9mm to .45acp to .22LR with barrel bolt and mag and maybe the lighter recoil spring for the .22 (mine runs with the 9mm spring)

Stay away from Macs, they shoot way too fast and are NOT a gun you want to be handing inexperienced shooters.

STENs are another good subgun, they just chug along and are simple. Mags are abundant.

MK760s can be finicky and might require some tweaking. Never cared for the stock on them either, they feel like they're going to collapse when you're shooting.

Thompsons are pricey and heavy, but they are ALL C&R guns and can be brought interstate without a 5320.20

Beltfeds, expensive to feed but very effective for defensive position if ever needed.

So, back to the Vector Uzi......you'll like it.

AliYahu
November 11, 2015, 01:02
Go shoot some of them, and see what you like. Then, price out replacement parts or parts kits. Then, buy one!
My personal preferences - in no particular order - are Beretta 38A, Uzi, Sten, MG 08/15, MP41, and Beretta BM59.
There's plenty of options out there for less than $10K, especially if you stay away from popular or modern designs. A Sten and MP5 are both 9mm, but the Sten is easy and cheap to fix and a lot less expensive buy-in.
The Stemple/BRP guns are certainly worth a look, as they're designed for the budget-minded.

ETA: There's also the JMB Stemples, SW 76, only $5400: http://www.jmbdistribution.com/class3_guns_forsale.htm
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1732

Rifles are a different situation, and tend to be more expensive to buy and more expensive to feed.
'Crew-served' stuff is remarkably affordable, all things considered. The old, reliable 1919 is still chugging along, with a variety of calibers and readily available parts. The Maxims - the MG08/15 being the most common - are oftentimes less expensive to purchase but much more finicky and fewer available calibers.
The Spitfire, by the way, is based on the M3 'Grease Gun' design, only made up to look like a Thompson. They were open-bolt, and the BATF declared them all to be machine guns and required registration many years ago due to ridiculously easy full-auto conversion: remove pin, remove sear, replace pin, GO!

Eli

ercrossfire
November 11, 2015, 08:27
A MAC in 9mm with a Lage slow fire upper meets all of your requirements.

perryturner
November 11, 2015, 10:19
A MAC in 9mm with a Lage slow fire upper meets all of your requirements.There's one posted on subguns.com NFA ad board for $6500.

Bubacus
November 18, 2015, 06:52
A MAC in 9mm with a Lage slow fire upper meets all of your requirements.

I would agree with this...An Uzi would be great, but if you are looking to tinker with it and have more options for uppers, the M-11 with a Lage upper is a bargin.

nopec
November 19, 2015, 18:56
Loading m11 mags sucks. But the lage slow fire upper makes them very controllable and accurate.

ICOM7800
November 24, 2015, 21:37
So, I'm looking to buy a machine gun - my first one, though not my first NFA item.
I'm looking for some comments and feedback about my thoughts and choices:
- Due to weapon cost, ammo cost, and convenience I am looking to start with a pistol caliber weapon - they can be MUCH cheaper than a rifle caliber weapon.
- I am looking for a relatively new design in a common caliber because I want to shot it regularly and not have to worry about it breaking.
- I have semi auto handguns and carbines in several calibers; I am looking at either 9 mm or 45 ACP - any thoughts as to differences in wear, maintenance, or controllability between the 2?
- Any comments about the pros or cons of buying a FA only weapon versus one with a selector allowing SA as well?
- To create broad categories, my choices are: 1. Uzi/ MAC/ Cobray style magazine in grip single handed pistol type weapon, possibly with a folding stock. 2. A Sten gun, with sub options of foreward grip, wood stock, or metal stock - anybody have experience with different Sten handguards and stocks, and how hard are they to change or swap? 3. A forward magazine weapon such as a Tec 9/ KG-99 type weapon, this category also includes Thompson style weapons. 4. Carbine type weapons: Reising, M-2 carbine, etc.

I'm not a big fan of the Uzi/Cobray/ MAC type of weapon and would like to have an option for 2 hand use. I'm leaning away from the Reising and carbine types due to issues I've heard of with age, relatively small (and rare magazines), and feeding. Is anyone familiar with Spitfire Thompsons? I've seen several for sale surprisingly reasonable and WAAYY cheaper than a Thompson or Auto ordnance - which makes me wonder why the difference.

Please give me your thoughts and comment on any experience you have with any of the weapons mentioned here. Thanks for your input.

Well M16 UZI Sterling M10 hell was class 3 since 1983 .Have fun with the hobby. James