PDA

View Full Version : What do with a Scout?


TheOtherTinMan
October 04, 2015, 16:29
Say you got a NIB Springfield Scout.

What mods do you make?

Wood stock? Remove the scout rail? Replace the muzzle thingy? Any other parts that ought to be replaced?

Also, what field cleaning kit is recommended? The GI kit? An OTIS 30cal kit? Some hodgepodge of various pieces chosen for pure functionality?

Any other advice (besides get a FAL, already got one... or two... or three.. or something like that...)

spider991
October 04, 2015, 16:56
Shoot it as is....they are great rifles. Just decide what you like wood or plastic stock..love that gun

hardass
October 04, 2015, 19:04
If you're gonna get a scope I would recommend removing the forward rail and getting a conventional receiver mount. I shot one with a LER scope and I just didn't like the forward position. Didn't feel balanced. Just my preference, as the owner liked it.

I changed out a barrel on one of my Polytechs and made a scout out of it. I shoot it more then my full length ones. But I have a preference for shorter barrel rifles.

One thing I read alot about new Springfield rifles is they have a tendency to break extractors. Buy a USGI replacement with the spring and pin. Springfield uses cast ones from what I can gather reading from the m14forums. Even with a lifetime warranty, it's still a pain in the ass to send it back for something you can easily replace yourself if it does happen.

It's a fine rifle. Enjoy it like it is before going out and tacticooling it :eek:

EDIT; One more thing, if it's new in the box ,field strip it and remove the lube on it and replace with your favorite. I hear the grease on new rifles is just for packing/shipping.

TheOtherTinMan
October 04, 2015, 20:28
Who makes a decent scope mount? SEI has one for around 250, is that about the going rate for a decent rail?

TheOtherTinMan
October 04, 2015, 20:30
What about mags? Are the CMI stainless mags any good?

Illurian00
October 04, 2015, 22:43
From what I've read, your miles ahead w/ the composite stock. A wood stock will lose dimensional integrity over time. Climate and volume of shooting go hand in hand here. If you have the composite stock(GI fiberglass), I think your better off.

Here are some thoughts ;

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/jim-barrett/modifying-the-classic-m14m1a/

mack7.62
October 05, 2015, 03:11
Who makes a decent scope mount? SEI has one for around 250, is that about the going rate for a decent rail?

Sadlak makes a mount every bit as good as SEI, GDI also makes a decent mount.

BiGB808
October 05, 2015, 17:52
My cmi mags have been flawless

John Crusher
October 05, 2015, 18:03
First thing I'd do/did was shoot the crap out of it.
2nd was put a Promag mount on and a TA11H-308 on it.
3rd did not happen.
The CMI mags work just fine but I've got mostly USGI ones.

E5c03
October 05, 2015, 19:33
Sadlak Sadlax,,Sadlax,,,xtnd mag release,scope mount steel airborne,,,NM spring guide for,,

Bawana jim
October 06, 2015, 13:17
Scopes make you raise your head off the stock as you shoot. If you pad it up then it's a struggle to use the open sites. Love the gun but in its original configuration it's difficult to use both sites.

bubbagump
October 06, 2015, 17:10
If you're gonna get a scope I would recommend removing the forward rail and getting a conventional receiver mount. I shot one with a LER scope and I just didn't like the forward position. Didn't feel balanced. Just my preference, as the owner liked it.

I changed out a barrel on one of my Polytechs and made a scout out of it. I shoot it more then my full length ones. But I have a preference for shorter barrel rifles.

One thing I read alot about new Springfield rifles is they have a tendency to break extractors. Buy a USGI replacement with the spring and pin. Springfield uses cast ones from what I can gather reading from the m14forums. Even with a lifetime warranty, it's still a pain in the ass to send it back for something you can easily replace yourself if it does happen.

It's a fine rifle. Enjoy it like it is before going out and tacticooling it :eek:

EDIT; One more thing, if it's new in the box ,field strip it and remove the lube on it and replace with your favorite. I hear the grease on new rifles is just for packing/shipping.


Well Cooper's thing about the scout rifle was to have the scope forward and at low magnification to facilitate quick acquisition, that's probably why the mount is forward, it's a more classic implementation of the concept. But if it ain't workin' for ya it ain't workin'.

b.

hardass
October 06, 2015, 18:34
Cooper's Scout rifle was also a bolt action, under 7 lbs, with the scope mounted with sling. My scout without the scope,[but a USGI wood stock] weighs 9.7lbs. It was also conceived before the use of red dot sighting systems which allow for quick target acquisition with both eyes open. It also took him..Cooper.. awhile to come around to a forward mounted scope as his first versions had a rear receiver mounted ghost ring.

But back to the OP.

Does it have a polymer or wood stock? Wood looks nice but does add weight and if you hunt with it you have to be more carful about inclement weather, bumping and bruising.

The GI cleaning kit is convienent cause it fits in the buttstock and has the combination gas plug, bore brush and bolt dis-assembly tool, but I can't say that I ever had to use it in the field in 25 yrs of owning M1a's.

I wouldn't make any changes until you do some shooting as is.

Lots of shooting.:)

HD-Ghost
October 08, 2015, 14:05
There are many things that can be done with an M1a/M14 that were not available during the Nam war.

As to the barrel mounted scope mount. If you like red-dots, a Bushnel TRS-25 adds almost no weight. Many don't like this mount due to the heat transfer from shooting to the scope.

As to receiver scope mounts, Smith Enterprises and Sadlak make identical styled and quality mounts.

As to "muzzle thingies", I find that SEI's Coast Guard model is the best. They make a number of other flash-hiders/muzzle breaks that look cool too.

As to stocks, SAI's plastic stocks are terrible, and can effect the accuracy greatly. A USGI fiberglass stock is the toughest, and can be painted any way you choose. But wood............., well its beautiful.

As to the Taiwanese parts that SAI uses, replace them with USGI when they break. Nam era USGI mags are the best. There are other upgrades, but these will get you started. And USGI cleaning kits are just fine.

PM me if you want the going prices on anything M14.

bubbagump
October 09, 2015, 12:39
There are many things that can be done with an M1a/M14 that were not available during the Nam war.

As to the barrel mounted scope mount. If you like red-dots, a Bushnel TRS-25 adds almost no weight. Many don't like this mount due to the heat transfer from shooting to the scope.

As to receiver scope mounts, Smith Enterprises and Sadlak make identical styled and quality mounts.

As to "muzzle thingies", I find that SEI's Coast Guard model is the best. They make a number of other flash-hiders/muzzle breaks that look cool too.

As to stocks, SAI's plastic stocks are terrible, and can effect the accuracy greatly. A USGI fiberglass stock is the toughest, and can be painted any way you choose. But wood............., well its beautiful.

As to the Taiwanese parts that SAI uses, replace them with USGI when they break. Nam era USGI mags are the best. There are other upgrades, but these will get you started. And USGI cleaning kits are just fine.

PM me if you want the going prices on anything M14.

The right stock is possibly the most important component there is to any rifle insofar as getting one to shoot right is concerned.

b.

B Wood
October 10, 2015, 16:43
Say you got a NIB Springfield Scout.

What mods do you make?

Wood stock? Remove the scout rail? Replace the muzzle thingy? Any other parts that ought to be replaced?

Also, what field cleaning kit is recommended? The GI kit? An OTIS 30cal kit? Some hodgepodge of various pieces chosen for pure functionality?

Any other advice (besides get a FAL, already got one... or two... or three.. or something like that...)

Could trade it to me for one of my FAL Para's! ;)

TheOtherTinMan
October 10, 2015, 20:46
It's got the original SA plastic stock. So I reckon I'll be looking for a USGI fiberglass stock to replace it with.

I notice SEI says I need one of their proprietary gas blocks to use their Vortex? Or did I read that wrong?

What is the best flash hider to use? Original USGI? Vortex? Something else? Looking for flash reduction more than noise increasion...

The receiver scope mounts look strange to me: they attach in the middle and just sit at each end? Is that really stable enough?

What optic goes best with an M1a? 4x fixed? 1-4x? 3-9 with mildot?

Thanks for the replies so far, any and all advice appreciated.

(trade for Para? Hmm... I'll keep that in mind... I am addicted to FALs... heheh)

akinnepa
October 10, 2015, 21:00
Following because I have a savage model 10 fcp scout in 7.62x39. I'd like to mod (bolt on) the rifle to take single stack ak mags.

B Wood
October 11, 2015, 05:57
It's got the original SA plastic stock. So I reckon I'll be looking for a USGI fiberglass stock to replace it with.

I notice SEI says I need one of their proprietary gas blocks to use their Vortex? Or did I read that wrong?

What is the best flash hider to use? Original USGI? Vortex? Something else? Looking for flash reduction more than noise increasion...

The receiver scope mounts look strange to me: they attach in the middle and just sit at each end? Is that really stable enough?

What optic goes best with an M1a? 4x fixed? 1-4x? 3-9 with mildot?

Thanks for the replies so far, any and all advice appreciated.

(trade for Para? Hmm... I'll keep that in mind... I am addicted to FALs... heheh)

I am serious......;)

built by Adam762 here Beautiful shape....

gunplumber
October 11, 2015, 09:59
Is there something about this old design that has you enamored?
Imagine you do not have any .308s.


Your rich uncle says - I'm sending you a .308 rifle for your birthday, which one do you want?

Would you pick the scout?

If not, sell it. And buy what you want. Why put any money into something that you know ahead of time doesn't suit your desires?

Are you in a position financially to have multiple rifles that do not have anything in common other than the same role? Some people want to a have a FAL, AR, SAIGA, HK, M1A etc,all in the same role, with different mags. It makes no sense to me. I pick the best one and dump the rest. For the me, the best was the FAL, replaced later by the SCAR. In fact, a defect in my first Bush rifle (Scout predecessor) was what got me traded into my first FAL.

If you want to keep the Scout, I'd keep it exactly as it is with a red dot on the forward mount. M1As suck with rear scopes, but if you want to make a high, cumbersome mount for it, and then have to modify the stock for cheek weld, then I'd go with the Sadlak. I would not buy anything from that piece of shit Ron Smith, and anyway, the scope mount is mediocre at best. There are some interesting comparisons of Chinese ones and "his". They look identical, with the Chinese marks milled off. I just know that in 25 years I've never found one that fit well without modification, and the Sadlak have always been perfect.

I did the SOCOM thing and didn't care for it either. If I had to do it again, I'd go with the 18" over the 16".

If you want to build an iron sight target gun, it will be cheaper to sell what you have and buy what you want, than to try to alter what you have into what you want. Let someone else pour a bunch of money into something, hoping to get it to do something for which it was never intended.

gunplumber
October 11, 2015, 10:12
Coopers concept of a lightweight, short-range, hunting rifle, was kindof neat.

His naming it "scout" and pretending it had any value whatsoever, aside from a short range, lightweight, hunting rifle - that's where the concept fell apart.

If we call it a general-purpose rifle, or an across-the-board rifle, and accept that it is not refined for either CQB or long range - then what would it be?

Scout implies it is for a scout. But what is a scout? Recon? They need the firepower to break contact, which may suggest a 5.56 over a .308. They are not engaging at long distance. The difference in role today is more a matter of optic than rifle.

TheOtherTinMan
October 11, 2015, 13:54
Is there something about this old design that has you enamored?
Imagine you do not have any .308s.


Your rich uncle says - I'm sending you a .308 rifle for your birthday, which one do you want?

Would you pick the scout?

If not, sell it. And buy what you want. Why put any money into something that you know ahead of time doesn't suit your desires?

Are you in a position financially to have multiple rifles that do not have anything in common other than the same role? Some people want to a have a FAL, AR, SAIGA, HK, M1A etc,all in the same role, with different mags. It makes no sense to me. I pick the best one and dump the rest. For the me, the best was the FAL, replaced later by the SCAR. In fact, a defect in my first Bush rifle (Scout predecessor) was what got me traded into my first FAL.

If you want to keep the Scout, I'd keep it exactly as it is with a red dot on the forward mount. M1As suck with rear scopes, but if you want to make a high, cumbersome mount for it, and then have to modify the stock for cheek weld, then I'd go with the Sadlak. I would not buy anything from that piece of shit Ron Smith, and anyway, the scope mount is mediocre at best. There are some interesting comparisons of Chinese ones and "his". They look identical, with the Chinese marks milled off. I just know that in 25 years I've never found one that fit well without modification, and the Sadlak have always been perfect.

I did the SOCOM thing and didn't care for it either. If I had to do it again, I'd go with the 18" over the 16".

If you want to build an iron sight target gun, it will be cheaper to sell what you have and buy what you want, than to try to alter what you have into what you want. Let someone else pour a bunch of money into something, hoping to get it to do something for which it was never intended.

I appreciate your no-bs direct approach!

I fired a partner's m1a at a class several years ago and I liked it. I liked how it handled and how it shot. I love FALs but I do like the m1a. I already have my 'needs' taken care of, this was a 'want' more than anything else. I found a source for mags at 9 bucks each (steel, seller gave me a money back guarantee, he's local, all face to face, reputable local business guy, he's been shooting m1a for decades, it's all he cares about, blah blah blah).

After working with her for awhile I may decide I have no practical use for her (already calling it a her? hmm...) and may sell or trade.

So far I like how it handles, it balances different than my FAL. I'm going to put it through some paces and comparisons to see if it works better or worse for me.

partisan50
August 14, 2016, 17:37
I just bought a scout and turned it into a Bush rifle to go with my pre-ban M1A.:biggrin:

BiGB808
August 15, 2016, 23:09
that is a bit funny. If I was scouting out alone or just a few folks. When discovered by an enemy with any sort of equal or larger advantage..its high tale time!

a sbr 5.56 with a drum might be better: )

I do love me the looks of those midget .308's though.

01BIRDDOG
August 16, 2016, 07:46
Who makes a decent scope mount? SEI has one for around 250, is that about the going rate for a decent rail?

Use a Smith mount that channels an Acog deeper for a better cheek weld. Same secure attach points as other mount they made. Use the 308 Acog with longer eye relief.

BiGB808
August 16, 2016, 09:26
Smith? Isn't that that pos that sues over someone using bad words? F him
..I have no money so molo rolo

01BIRDDOG
August 16, 2016, 12:03
Smith? Isn't that that pos that sues over someone using bad words? F him
..I have no money so molo rolo

Not sure.........Never heard this before but stranger things have happened.

ArtBanks
August 16, 2016, 12:24
Sadlak makes a great rail for the M14.

hueyville
August 16, 2016, 20:27
Currently own and have owned more M1a's than made any sense at all. Of all the models offered the Socom and Scout are the only two have never had any desire for. A battle rifle is supposed to be big. If want a short and handy rifle it's called the AR 15. Built myself a scout rifle as the Colonel Cooper defined. A shorter barrel, turn bolt with low power scope mounted in forward position. M

Built my scout rifle on a Savage Model 11 Lightweight in 7mm-08. My smith cut the barrel to 18", threaded for one of his proprietary combination flash hider/muzzle brakes. Added a heavier recoil lug to replace the thin stamped Savage factory lug. Bedded the action to his specifications along with some other modifications to the stock. Ponied up for two Darkeagle 10 round magazines, their extended magazine release and a handful of factory magazines. Topped the rig off with a Leupold 1.5x-4x Scout Scope mounted just forward of the bolt. Entire rig came in just under seven pounds (unloaded). Even with the lighter recoil of the 7mm-08 and Pachmyer Decellerator recoil pad it is snappy to shoot but the brake keeps it on target pretty well for quick follow up shots and can carry it all day without fatigue.

As to scope mounts for the M1a, Sadlak is your answer if mount to rear and go with the Bobro if mounting forward. If your doing the scout deal then shaving weight is part of the equation. If use the Sadlak pony up for their titanium mount or try the aluminum. Go ahead and get one of their tactical magazine releases so your not fumbling when swapping mags. I would be tempted to totally forgo any optics and if have the over 40 issues with iron sights stick a red dot optic. If just have to get a scope use the Leupold 1.5x-4x Scout model. As to swapping stocks, shoot the crap out of the factory stock and save the money. If shoot it till bedding turns loose then look at aftermarket stocks. Less is more, don't fix it till you break it unless something adds significant capabilities to the rifle.

Personally would have built a true scout rifle or bought an AR in 6.8 for a lightweight heavy hitter. When I think of M1a's, National Match and Super Match configurations are what get me excited. Also like to take the Basic models that came in synthetic stocks and let a smith tune them without changing appearance then suprise folks on the range with the cheap model. The fiberglass stock really does good if bedded properly buy a professional. Otherwise just get optic of choice mounted for now, shoot it then modify to suit as you and it adapt to each other. Found a NIB Basic built in late 1990's recently that was mostly USGI parts. Have several and all have turned into good shooters with minimal tuning. Almost any magazine works near as I can tell but prefer real military 20 rounders.