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View Full Version : Choises... To buy or not to buy this M14?


paco
August 27, 2015, 13:41
Hi folks,

I collect mostly FN and Belgian Army weapons.
I can also own (legaly) full auto weapons in .223rem 9para and 308Win.
So, clearly, i don't live in the land of the free...

A guy has this FA M14 for sale. It is complete, selective fire and the overal condition is very good. Comes with bayo, sling and 3 mags
Any toughts about this one (in better shape as that M14 without serials i spotted in may)

Rare item?
Thanks
Paco

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/20150827_200453_zps3f8wfdfz.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/20150827_200453_zps3f8wfdfz.jpg.html)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/IMG_1408_zpsvyy2b5ce.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/IMG_1408_zpsvyy2b5ce.jpg.html)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/20150827_201351_zpsppeagosb.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/20150827_201351_zpsppeagosb.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/20150827_201413_zpsgkzpcbeb.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/20150827_201413_zpsgkzpcbeb.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/IMG_1407_zpsj1pgc822.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/IMG_1407_zpsj1pgc822.jpg.html)



http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/20150827_200612_zpsf5sbo82v.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/20150827_200612_zpsf5sbo82v.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/20150827_200635_zpszhqpz5gd.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/20150827_200635_zpszhqpz5gd.jpg.html)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/20150827_200753_zpsqfec8unr.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/20150827_200753_zpsqfec8unr.jpg.html)

ArtBanks
August 27, 2015, 14:05
I like my Winchesters. I had to settle for one that is legal to own. Heel welded on new production semi-auto front half.
If I could, I would certainly buy it.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/nf1e/IMG_0150_zpstdzr1yl1.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/nf1e/media/IMG_0150_zpstdzr1yl1.jpg.html)

Semper Fi
Art

rbgonoles
August 27, 2015, 14:06
Buy it...I love my M1A and it does not have the M14 fun switch. After my FAL it is my favorite rifle.

paco
August 27, 2015, 14:19
Can somebody confirm this rifle had served or did it find its way by the civilian route?

HD-Ghost
August 27, 2015, 16:16
Very, very few ever made it into US civilian hands. One of the rarest FAs in America. And Winchesters are very popular.

Impala_Guy
August 27, 2015, 18:51
That rifle was in the UK at some point....BNP and crown is British proof mark on the left side of receiver. Bet there's an interesting story there. Likely owned by a licensed civilian shooter before their gun laws went stupid...or Metropolitan Police firearms unit as a marksmans rifle?

SPEEDGUNNER
August 27, 2015, 19:46
Oh Paco, you are truly killing me...

Impala_Guy
August 27, 2015, 20:43
Can somebody confirm this rifle had served or did it find its way by the civilian route?

Paco - all M14 rifles started out.as US military property. Some were later sold or given to foreign governments but none were sold directly to civilians or police straight from the manufacturer except a handful of presentation rifles.

Jarhead504
August 27, 2015, 21:23
My brother, I don't know how you do it, but buy that rifle as fast as you can. Over here, an all matching, original USGI, un-cut, un-molested, genuine WINCHESTER M-14 wold go between $25 -> $32K. Please get it so we can see it future pics with your other gorgeous family. That rifle would be a compliment to ANY collection this side of The Galaxy.

Jarhead

paco
August 28, 2015, 01:02
1.5K here...
There is nothing wrong with the M14, it has only been proofed as it entered Europe. That is standard procedure since the US has no universal proofingsystem.
Pitty, cause collectors can own the guns without the extra proofmarks. Prices drops if they have the extra stamps.
I have imported some 15 guns recently and went to the proofhouse. The guy wanted to proof'm and stamp'm. I labeled all my guns "property of a collector", no extra proofstamps ; )


Welcome to the land of the "unfree"...

Ok, i'll go for it. Will go and see it in a few weeks live and then make the call. He also had some FA FAL G-series and nice spare FAL wood....
My wallet will be runed (again)

LRRP7.62
August 28, 2015, 22:20
I hate you:wink: I say that in jest. That is a fine rifle. I laugh every time someone tells me we're so free here in America.

MistWolf
August 29, 2015, 17:27
Party at Paco's house! BYOA (Bring Your Own Ammo). I'll bring the potato salad, LRRP7.62, you get the ribs. SPEEDGUNNER said he'd bring Tannerite

paco
August 31, 2015, 12:34
Does anyone have a shitload .50 Cal ammo?
It is finaly running like a sewingmachine since i found a little cracked part ; )
Oh, and some 30-06 ammo too! I got some BAR's to test

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/50%20BMG/DSCF0002_zps7b652dc2.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/50%20BMG/DSCF0002_zps7b652dc2.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/FN%20BAR%20Mod%20D%20A1/DSCN9115_zpsicqj3ouf.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/FN%20BAR%20Mod%20D%20A1/DSCN9115_zpsicqj3ouf.jpg.html)
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn209/AK56Belgie/FN%20BAR%20D/IMG_7812.jpg (http://s305.photobucket.com/user/AK56Belgie/media/FN%20BAR%20D/IMG_7812.jpg.html)

paco
September 20, 2015, 02:43
tic tac tic tac, gonna get that M14 in 6 Hrs...
If it is still there :facepalm:

Ohh, he also had a full auto G FAL, let's see i can give that one a new home with friends

John Crusher
September 20, 2015, 10:53
You really know how to make an old grunt cry.:bow: I was a HW specialist.

paco
September 20, 2015, 14:15
Well, it turned out that the guy had some more nice items...
Walked home with 5 different FN High powers, a AFN49 and a G FAL plus a unknown to me Bergmann "destroyer" 9mm para bolt action rifle...

Pics will follow.

(And yes, i didn't forget the M14)

paco
September 20, 2015, 16:13
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1706_zpsx1w58cnw.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1706_zpsx1w58cnw.jpg.html)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1705_zpsleow4vbj.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1705_zpsleow4vbj.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1703_zpsaz9ilcrt.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1703_zpsaz9ilcrt.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1701_zpsgty5xahx.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1701_zpsgty5xahx.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1700_zpslmgbkkhm.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1700_zpslmgbkkhm.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1698_zpsr0te2kef.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1698_zpsr0te2kef.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1697_zpsonymkxwo.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1697_zpsonymkxwo.jpg.html)

Bergmann destroyer rifle
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1709_zpsdwlablds.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1709_zpsdwlablds.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1707_zps7vvwunx7.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1707_zps7vvwunx7.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/tekoop/DSCN1708_zpsck5lgszc.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/tekoop/DSCN1708_zpsck5lgszc.jpg.html)

K. Funk
September 20, 2015, 18:07
Ah yes, the Destroyer Carbine. Been a while since I have seen one. Go for about $250-$350 here. The M-14 can be a handful to shoot FA. I have a factory select fire Springfield M1-A rifle and it is a handful compared to the FAL.

krf

SAFN49
September 20, 2015, 19:22
PACO you such a tease.

Jarhead504
September 20, 2015, 20:40
I was told that the Destroyer Carbine in 9mm Largo was used in Spain to shoot people in crowds without raising a lot of noise. They are also recommended to to be in a prepper's armory for serious poaching of deer as the 9mm Largo is 165g bullet. You did very well, as always.

Anyone know any more about this?

Jarhead

randy762ak
September 20, 2015, 21:51
I have 2 of those Spanish destroyers and a handful of mags --The worst problem is they all seem to have been fired with corrosive ammo and not cleaned !!

Indeed PACO is making us all envious !:bow:

paco
September 21, 2015, 00:36
I have 2 of those Spanish destroyers and a handful of mags --The worst problem is they all seem to have been fired with corrosive ammo and not cleaned !!

Indeed PACO is making us all envious !:bow:

Hey,
Any source for more mags?
thx
Paco

K. Funk
September 21, 2015, 11:13
They are available. Numrich has them for $11. Liberty Tree has them as well as others.

krf

LRRP7.62
September 22, 2015, 20:04
paco, are your firearms operational and can you own ammo and go to a range and shoot them ? Sorry if this has been asked before. I don't know your laws and was curious if you get to shoot these treasures or just fondle them. Regardless you have a beautiful collection.:beer:

paco
September 23, 2015, 01:03
paco, are your firearms operational and can you own ammo and go to a range and shoot them ? Sorry if this has been asked before. I don't know your laws and was curious if you get to shoot these treasures or just fondle them. Regardless you have a beautiful collection.:beer: They work, yes i have tons of ammo, yes i can fire them.
No, no great outdoor Knob Creek alike firingrages in Belgium since there are some 400 people in every square kilometer...

But hey, no sear BS here. A 50Cal BMG cost some 3500-5000$ in mint condition.
A M16 perhaps 2000

And the good old FAL 1000-1500 for a common FAL, The UK L1A1 =500$

Choises, choises and so less budget :biggrin:

LRRP7.62
September 24, 2015, 17:57
Nice !

You have a beautiful collection. Thanks for sharing.

JWH
September 24, 2015, 22:20
I had no idea that I wanted to move to Belgium.

Until I opened this thread.... sigh

Illurian00
September 25, 2015, 01:08
I hate you:wink: I say that in jest. That is a fine rifle. I laugh every time someone tells me we're so free here in America.


WTF,,,,that furrinerz 'second amendment ' seems to be working so much better than mine,,,WTF.....

LRRP7.62
September 25, 2015, 21:11
WTF,,,,that furrinerz 'second amendment ' seems to be working so much better than mine,,,WTF.....

Indeed ! I saw videos of Czechs with AKs, G3s and FALs and then paco with his outstanding collection and thought how we are the Land of the Fee and Home of the Slave.

But of course I was assured by the NRA and their fudd membership that Europe was disarmed and could only own butter knives which were soon to be banned

Guy-epic
September 25, 2015, 21:18
I wish I could be of help as you heave helped me often. I hope it works out well for you and my wife will be thankful as I will likely be in a rather frisky mood after all the gun porn LOL

Illurian00
September 25, 2015, 21:46
Indeed ! I saw videos of Czechs with AKs, G3s and FALs and then paco with his outstanding collection and thought how we are the Land of the Fee and Home of the Slave.

But of course I was assured by the NRA and their fudd membership that Europe was disarmed and could only own butter knives which were soon to be banned

Indeed Indeed !! Videos of Mooselimb wedding guests firing full autos into the sky. And of course, this oldie but goody :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FinRqCocwGE

Thye 'west' is fookqed.....

Guy-epic
September 25, 2015, 22:01
Great video

easttex
September 25, 2015, 23:06
If I happen to be in Europe when the zombie apocalypse or WWIII begins, I'm totally finding paco's house and holing up there.

I believe he is presently better equipped than the average Belgian Para battalion...

paco
September 26, 2015, 00:57
I have, for sure, more guns&ammo as the local policeforce.

The para Bn went out of my town a few years ago:sad:
So, i needed to find a new unit.

I was talking yesterday in the military school to a professor in Ballistics.
They got a huge laballistic lab and a 700 pieces testfiringweapon collection. Including 2 of those 20mm Vulcans (VADS).

He need a guy to sort there collection. So, i think i'm gonna move over from para trooper to there facility.

paco
September 26, 2015, 14:43
I found some friends and a brother for the M14.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/DSCN1765_zps6uhn7t5b.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/DSCN1765_zps6uhn7t5b.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/DSCN1767_zpsgzyjxjv9.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/DSCN1767_zpsgzyjxjv9.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/DSCN1768_zpscgazj1d3.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/DSCN1768_zpscgazj1d3.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/DSCN1771_zpsd8ffvmii.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/DSCN1771_zpsd8ffvmii.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/DSCN1772_zpse6dgvwfc.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/DSCN1772_zpse6dgvwfc.jpg.html)

gates
September 26, 2015, 19:21
So what hoops do you have to jump through to be able own those FAs in Belgium?

denny
September 27, 2015, 00:09
I love the m 1As .
As for the 14 terrible in full auto.
shot 1 on target shot 2 1:30 and 3 way high and right to totally uncontrollable.
Denny

paco
September 27, 2015, 02:18
So what hoops do you have to jump through to be able own those FAs in Belgium?

Be a, adult Belgian citizen.
own 5 fire arms in some kind of theme. ("German army" or "FN" or so)
Pay 350
Ask several "good behavior" notes rom a service and send to several services :facepalm:
Wait, wait some more.
Receive your permit and register.
Go to your bank, get a visa.
Go to gunshop, explain your wife "it is the same for me as shoes and purses to you, so, i really need (all of) them".

Enjoin gun the rest of your life... :biggrin:


1st amendement, "All Belgian citizens have the same rights..."
If i can, so do you...

Welcome in Belgium, no need to jump.
And yes, you can fire them too

Invictus77
September 27, 2015, 02:33
The 350 Euro and permit.

Is it for only the one specific FA, or is it a permit allowing you to own numerous FAs?

paco
September 27, 2015, 10:09
The 350 Euro and permit.

Is it for only the one specific FA, or is it a permit allowing you to own numerous FAs?

You have to pay the 350 for a 5 year license.
You can buy as many weapons that you want. Semi, bolt, full auto, DD, handguns...

The only strange restriction, you can only have ons identical postwar gun.
So, you can own like50 prewar HiPowers model 1935's with no issue, but you can own only one postwar FN Mark3 HiPower. Makes sence right :facepalm:?

It is difficult to date some guns so you need to watch out on that.

Beside that, no problem. There are more guns out there as you can afford...
Choises, choises.

gates
September 30, 2015, 00:48
So Paco... what happens when that 5 year, 350 Euro, permit expires and you don't renew (I know stupid question) does that mean you can't buy anymore guns? not that you don't already own the equivalent of several million dollars worth of class III here in the US...

paco
September 30, 2015, 01:05
So Paco... what happens when that 5 year, 350 Euro, permit expires and you don't renew (I know stupid question) does that mean you can't buy anymore guns? not that you don't already own the equivalent of several million dollars worth of class III here in the US...

You need to sell your items, or turn them in to a dealer...
you can keep the non FA guns on a normal permit (also 5 years valid)
But then again, what is 350$ in 5 years to own all this...
I'm happy to pay my taxes in this country.

I'm off to the range now :D

gates
October 01, 2015, 22:55
Good for you - I'd gladly pay that tax forever to be able to collect and shoot what you have collected...

jaybo785
October 22, 2015, 20:11
Paco, you kind of remind me of Burt from Tremors; and I mean that in the best way possible. Cause Burt is awesome.