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View Full Version : Beware of a real nasty nutcase builder


jcrowl
July 20, 2015, 21:33
I was looking to have some modifications made to my old Century L1A1 sporter. I had had a redo done by Derek at Arizona expert arms..(AZEX)and was looking for him to make the new modifications installing a DSA L1A1 receiever and PAt Jones L1a1 barrel. I had emailed him in June and he said to contact him after July 15, because he was going on vacation. I emailed him on July 18 and received no response..I emailed again on july 19, said I understood he must be busy and that I would send the rifle to Gunplumber. In return I got this series of profanity laced emails"

From: azex@live.com
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎July‎ ‎20‎, ‎2015 ‎9‎:‎15‎ ‎PM
To: jcrowl@windstream.net


If you’re that much of a bitch I don’t need your business….I’m ******* broken down up here and need your whiny shit like I need another hole in my dick.





Sent from Windows Mail


From: James Crowley
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎July‎ ‎20‎, ‎2015 ‎7‎:‎11‎ ‎PM
To: azex


sorry…you had said to contact you after 7/15/now I won’ t contact you at all



Sent from Windows Mail


From: azex@live.com
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎July‎ ‎20‎, ‎2015 ‎8‎:‎36‎ ‎PM
To: jcrowl@windstream.net


I’m on vacation asshole



Sent from Windows Mail


From: James Crowley
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎July‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015 ‎10‎:‎22‎ ‎PM
To: azex

I wonder how such a person can stay in business.I will definitely be sending my rifle to Gunplumber

notfrommt
July 20, 2015, 22:44
Sounds like he's having fun on vacation...

Right Side Up
July 20, 2015, 22:53
Ha Ha, that guy was always a dick. :rofl:

If I were you I'd keep bugging him on his vacay.

jcrowl
July 20, 2015, 22:56
Yeah..well gunplumber had posted several years ago (which was years after I had Derek do work for me in 2003) that this guy was into drugs and committing crimes like assault and was of low character

garandguy10
July 20, 2015, 23:08
Sounds like he is dancing on the edge. He will not be a FFL for long with that attitude and I am pretty sure you don't want to be dealing with the feds trying to get your rifle back after he falls off that edge.

12v71
July 20, 2015, 23:17
I'm sure the first time I called a customer an asshole... he would be a customer no longer. But I have said that once or twice and the "assholes" still call me in. Go figure?

K.O.A.M.
July 21, 2015, 08:13
Nice to see that success and fortune haven't changed Derek at all.
:wink:

J. Armstrong
July 21, 2015, 11:27
Derek probably figured his customers should be able to smell when he is on vacation :confused:

It's what I call the "Why didn't you understand what I didn't say ?" syndrome. Usually applies to women, but obviously some (borderline ?) males qualify :)

That being said, mentioning GP pushed a guaranteed hot button :)

You're much better off sending it to Mark anyway.

4x401
July 21, 2015, 11:44
That being said, mentioning GP pushed a guaranteed hot button :).

Ya think?http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/FMA/anim_lol_zps8080610f.gif (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/4x401cj/media/FMA/anim_lol_zps8080610f.gif.html)

J. Armstrong
July 21, 2015, 12:49
Ya think?http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m44/4x401cj/FMA/anim_lol_zps8080610f.gif (http://s101.photobucket.com/user/4x401cj/media/FMA/anim_lol_zps8080610f.gif.html)

Just a wild guess :biggrin:

hagar
July 21, 2015, 14:28
Derek probably figured his customers should be able to smell when he is on vacation :confused:

It's what I call the "Why didn't you understand what I didn't say ?" syndrome. Usually applies to women, but obviously some (borderline ?) males qualify :)

That being said, mentioning GP pushed a guaranteed hot button :)

You're much better off sending it to Mark anyway.

He told me he was going to be gone, I did not have a problem with it. And yes, GP does push his hot button. There are numerous reasons for it, some I cannot mention on this board because it involves the owner and a beachball.:facepalm:

Don't agree, Derek does fine work, on time. He built 3 FAl's for me already, and refinished a Garand and a Glock that was in an accident that Glock USA did an absolutely horrible job on. Top notch work on all, and never had to wait more than a couple of weeks. Unlike a lot of smiths here that will take on work and you never see the finished product, and will be lucky at best to get your parts back after a year wait.

gunplumber
July 21, 2015, 16:07
There are some people I do not want as customers. The customer is not always right. Sometimes he's an asshat.

I'm fortunate to have enough success, that I don't need to pander to those I really don't want to work for.

Over the years I have told such people that I don't want their business, and I've done so with flowering metaphors of a type that would make a sailor blush.

Some are surprised when I say "not interested" after only hearing their name. I guess they don't realize that this is a small community, and many in the business send courtesy alerts to others about "problem customers." Some of these guys are a lot more gregarious and personable than I am, and if they won't take someone's work, you can be damn sure we would not be a good match either.


Fortunately, it's been few and far between.

I'd be happy to do your rebuild. You're looking at $350 labor, $35 ship. Add $100 for Parkerizing and $200 for paint over park. Currently, I'm guestimating 8-12 weeks.

J. Armstrong
July 21, 2015, 17:39
He told me he was going to be gone, I did not have a problem with it. And yes, GP does push his hot button. There are numerous reasons for it, some I cannot mention on this board because it involves the owner and a beachball.:facepalm:

Don't agree, Derek does fine work, on time. He built 3 FAl's for me already, and refinished a Garand and a Glock that was in an accident that Glock USA did an absolutely horrible job on. Top notch work on all, and never had to wait more than a couple of weeks. Unlike a lot of smiths here that will take on work and you never see the finished product, and will be lucky at best to get your parts back after a year wait.

I have heard that Derek does good work, I am am pleased that you received good service. However, I have seen some of the comments he has made on other boards regarding the Files and some of the people thereon, and I choose not to do business with anyone as childish, petty and vindictive as I perceive him to be. Just my preference, no intention to impugn your choice or experience.

I also hear from many sources that GP does great work and havehandled several outstanding examples. To date, I have not had a need for his services but I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to send a job to him. I have recommended him on several occasions, with the caveat that the prospective customer not expect hearts and flowers or smoke blown up their azz to be part of what they pay for ;):D

ExCdnSoldierInTx
July 22, 2015, 21:35
There's plenty of good builders out there, and 3 or 4 true experts. GP is an expert, so is Sledgehammer here in Tx.

Randy Sledgehammer finished my C1, and did EXACTLY what I asked, my way.

They don't come any finer than that.

E

DakTo
July 23, 2015, 07:11
I'd be happy to do your rebuild. You're looking at $350 labor, $35 ship. Add $100 for Parkerizing and $200 for paint over park. Currently, I'm guestimating 8-12 weeks.

Holy shit Mark. That is going to be a very expensive Century build. :wink:

I say if you are dissatisfied with a smith's non-performance just have them send the work back to you. The mention of sending it to someone else will usually piss them off and the work may not be returned to you in the condition you had sent it.

gunplumber
July 23, 2015, 07:32
Holy shit Mark. That is going to be a very expensive Century build.

He's converting an L1A1 Sporter (IMBEL or Argy) to a DSA, There is no Century receiver.

I say if you are dissatisfied with a smith's non-performance just have them send the work back to you. The mention of sending it to someone else will usually piss them off and the work may not be returned to you in the condition you had sent it.

I guess if the smith you have chosen is of low character, you'd have to worry about that. Which begs the question - why send your stuff to someone like that?

jcrowl
July 23, 2015, 12:48
He's converting an L1A1 Sporter (IMBEL or Argy) to a DSA, There is no Century receiver.



I guess if the smith you have chosen is of low character, you'd have to worry about that. Which begs the question - why send your stuff to someone like that?

Actually it is a Century receiver, it was one of those thumbhole stock Century L1A1s, bought back around 2000. I'm replacing the receiver with the DSA

gunplumber
July 23, 2015, 13:22
Actually it is a Century receiver, it was one of those thumbhole stock Century L1A1s, bought back around 2000. I'm replacing the receiver with the DSA

The Century thumbholes came in between 89 and 94. The first that said (nothing) / C 1234, or later said L1A1 Sporter / C1234 were Argentine receivers. After that, were IMBEL receivers.

Must differentiate imported by CAI and manufactured by CAI.

In 1994, ATF reversed the former Assault Weapons exemption that applied to thumbhole stocks.

If you have a CAI manufactured receiver from 2000, and it is a thumbhole, I strongly suspect someone affixed the thumbhole after the fact.

If the markings are on the right rear, it's only imported by CAI. If on the mag well, made by CAI.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/l1a1-markings-cai-types-01.jpg

jcrowl
July 23, 2015, 19:00
The Century thumbholes came in between 89 and 94. The first that said (nothing) / C 1234, or later said L1A1 Sporter / C1234 were Argentine receivers. After that, were IMBEL receivers.

Must differentiate imported by CAI and manufactured by CAI.

In 1994, ATF reversed the former Assault Weapons exemption that applied to thumbhole stocks.

If you have a CAI manufactured receiver from 2000, and it is a thumbhole, I strongly suspect someone affixed the thumbhole after the fact.

If the markings are on the right rear, it's only imported by CAI. If on the mag well, made by CAI.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/fal/l1a1-markings-cai-types-01.jpg

Thanks for the info. Mine is the last photo, made in USA on the magwell

Impala_Guy
July 23, 2015, 19:29
I know I shouldn't laugh at this thread, but being a one man small business owner I couldn't help myself. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

This has got to be the only industry in America where businesses seldom meet promise dates and tell their clients they are full of shit and to stick it up their keester. I have some tough clients and if I did that I'd be on welfare or stacking Old Roy dog food on the shelf at Wal*Mart within 3 months

Gun builders of America, I salute you. :bow::bow::bow:

DakTo
July 23, 2015, 20:35
I believe that is exactly why some of us do our own builds, refinishing both metal & wood and don't take in other's work.
We don't need gun shop people with bad behavior or gunsmith's who act like they are doing us a favor. If you can't get a decent timeline estimate the gunsmith is not effectively managing their time and may tell us anything to get our business.

1911Ron
July 25, 2015, 02:21
Some how i knew you were talking about Derek:rofl: I have had one interaction with him, he fixed a FAL for me many years ago, it worked better so i was happy.

Thorack
July 25, 2015, 04:27
Yeah,

About 8 years ago I had Derek redo a SAR for me. I couldnt be happier.

Thorack

wanneroo
July 25, 2015, 11:30
I know I shouldn't laugh at this thread, but being a one man small business owner I couldn't help myself. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

This has got to be the only industry in America where businesses seldom meet promise dates and tell their clients they are full of shit and to stick it up their keester. I have some tough clients and if I did that I'd be on welfare or stacking Old Roy dog food on the shelf at Wal*Mart within 3 months

Gun builders of America, I salute you. :bow::bow::bow:

Yes. It is too funny. I can believe the OP's post but almost can't believe it:facepalm:. As a one man shop myself if I did any sort of this unprofessional behavior I'd get dropped like a hot potato and I'd do the same for anyone that did that to me. These days with modern communications, the pedantic little children acting in such a way can't hide and that's a good thing. Word travels fast.

hueyville
July 25, 2015, 13:38
According to which business of mine, customer relations can either not matter or be make or break. Try pissing off Ma Bell in the telecom business. Every job done even if it's a battery change, power plant service, inspection or simple as light bulb change the invoice is required to have techs name and certification number for every tool. Each job has to be done with calibrated meters and torque wrenches. Once tool with serial number x is calibrated it's known who owns that tool. Numbers submitted on tools are spot checked against database which has name attached and if tools are not right, jobs not paid. If screw up one site, doesn't matter which company you move to, name still comes up as tech when invoice submitted and no way to work under false name. I like working in that environment as screw ups and get purged from sub list pretty quick. Can pick up a little Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon or private work but the real bucks are in Ma Bells pocket book.

Primary sign business have a reputation of doing top quality work for decades. Have multi-generational client list of good people, their referrals are generally good too. Being in business since 1952 every job is still tough to get now due to change of business dynamic. With a storefront shop on every corner now, established shops are hurting due to economy so every client has to be treated like a king and prices have to be competitive. Been doing this full time myself since 1983, part time since elementary school. Amazes me to see how industry has changed. Funny thing is never know what will change next and how quickly it happens.

Dental Hygiene used to be great. Only eight schools in Georgia and limited graduates from each. All graduates had jobs waiting when passed board exams. Now number of schools in Georgia doubled and existing doubled in size. Instead of having job waiting, most dentists have filing cabinet full of applications and large percentage of graduates may take years to find job if ever. Average pay has gone from $35 to $40 per hour now it's $20 to $25.

Same happening to motorcycle techs. Number of motorcycle mechanic schools saw big surge in motorcycle popularity so increased programs. Tech schools started adding motorcycle repair programs. Economy slowed and now most of those new professional wrenches are looking for jobs. With all the television shows that have run lately all we need is one out of ten tech schools to add gunsmith programs, graduate dozen or more per year per program and in five years we have dozens of new smiths popping up around every town with tech school. I see so many industries change, usually surrounding a surge in pop culture or technology that I don't see how any are bullet proof.

Alternative energy, off grid energy, power backup, security and off grid communications are hot now. My business works on referrals only thus any new client call is usually good. Its been best of all I have including my 63 year old family business. Don't have advertising or website but get a job almost weekly. Having my Grenn Energy Certification from E.P.A. is huge on closing deals. Thursday got call from lady building a "tiny house" wants it to be bullet resistant, off grid and has no cell reception where located. Having already gotten quotes on solar my rough prices based on photos she sent of stream and mountain location my hydro/wind rough estimate plus installation of personal cell Hotspot was ready to send deposit check after first call. Solar is goofy when someone has moving water and windy mountain location.

About tired of it all though. Want something simple can do close to home so better able to keep eye on wife. My pistol smith and rifle smith are both retiring this year. Said realize spending so much time building guns that no longer shooting and life is short. Has me thinking same thing. Trying to put back enough ammo, components and parts along with specialty guns that once kick it all to curb and on somewhat fixed income can shoot without worrying about cost. Maybe pick up a security or energy job on occasion that can be done with minimum tools as selling shop will have to be done or place will bleed me dry keeping insurance, occupancy permits, maintenance and taxes. Set up one truck for energy work, one for telecom and let everything else go. Then it's just Ma Bell and repeat customers/referrals for off grid or energy backup. Security work will come about as much as normal, third job of year just came in and only do it for very select clients and all this year pro bono thus far.

Really enjoy working but to do things totally legal with licenses, permits, liability and other insurances, Sales Tax, Dept. of Labor, Witholding, Medicare, Social Security and more it's losing its shine. Especially competing against people who mostly work without licenses, permits, insurance or proper tax paperwork filed.

Alternative power people are off grid and according to municipality, most fly under code requirements. Security work is consulting or training only so all the permits and actual construction work necessary done by companies I refer and Ma Bell is all subcontract work for other companies that handle all the legals. A simple 1.5 million, two incident per year liability policy and keeping applicable licenses active would be simple. Losing the hard location knocks 75% of required work to pay overhead off the table. Two trucks house all tools and anything need to be made sent to sub.

Have enough spare room in basement to move my thermal digital print equipment and darkroom stuff. Also high resolution film and large format flat substrate scanners. Only item will really miss is 8"×50""100" CNC router and big welders. Can keep gas powered stick with 8Kv generator and one other, just decide if small MIG, big MIG or TIG. Whichever keep, will miss others. Laying in bed for almost two weeks, knowing will be in bed next week and unsure how much longer, knowing all the bills are spinning at work it's starting to make sense to cut loose from cost of operation of big office/manufacturing facility except for my motorcycle lift where do motorcycle restorations, machine shop used for motorcycles and guns, ham radio shack completely stacked out like doing at home would aggravated wife and neighbors (people don't like antenna farms or hearing transmissions through television, radios, etc) gunsmithing room, tons of specialty tools won't be accessible along with metal working and woodworking shop. Now to decide if health is bad enough to pull the trigger on cashing out and whether to keep as hobby shop if decide to just cut back but have too really cut expenses from tax, permits, occupancy permits, business licenses all without infringing on new rules that will be enforced if not legitimate business. Won't even be able to take in a small welding or sheet metal job no matter how tempting.

AZGummieBear
July 25, 2015, 14:02
Greetings from northern az. We had had a weeks worth of outages and failures of land lines cell service cable tv and internet up here after some jerk shot up a fiber optic junction. Lots of folks had serious issues and even 911 was down in Show Low Pinetop Heber Snowflake And the whole area. It contributed to the death of at least one person when first responders never got the call to help.

Many folks were in serious stress when the atms and debit systems didnt work for a few days.

So to the OP Maybe. Just maybe its not all about you and your sense of entitlement. I will call him and find out the rest of the story. As it takes real lack of character to attack someone in a forum where they cannot defend themselves. The rest of you gossiping old women should be ashamed of yourselves for engaging in childish speculation and slanderous rumor mongering.

I dont think i want to be part of this community any longer. I am disgusted. This is why i live out in the sticks and keep to myself. Because of people like some of you.

jugrunner
July 25, 2015, 14:20
The rest of you gossiping old women should be ashamed of yourselves for engaging in childish speculation and slanderous rumor mongering.

I dont think i want to be part of this community any longer. I am disgusted. This is why i live out in the sticks and keep to myself. Because of people like some of you.



Oh well ... and I didn't even post ... :eek: ... you got mighty thin skin so's you might get hurt with your FAL ... Shirley you shouldn't be building or doing maintenance ... farm it out ... don't start collecting Bayonets ... you'll Shirley cut yourself ... bleed out in the "sticks" ... not good ...

problem is ... cutting off your nose to spite your face ... man-up, hang around and learn something ... even from people you might not like ... :wink: ... that happens to me on occasion ... :devil: ... some really smart people here ... :bow:




ETA: Hmmm ... after re-reading your post ... and looking at your screen name ... it's possible you're a woman ... or a child ... if that's the case please excuse the "man-up" comment ...

GSP228
July 25, 2015, 18:21
Greetings from northern az. We had had a weeks worth of outages and failures of land lines cell service cable tv and internet up here after some jerk shot up a fiber optic junction. Lots of folks had serious issues and even 911 was down in Show Low Pinetop Heber Snowflake And the whole area. It contributed to the death of at least one person when first responders never got the call to help.

Many folks were in serious stress when the atms and debit systems didnt work for a few days.

So to the OP Maybe. Just maybe its not all about you and your sense of entitlement. I will call him and find out the rest of the story. As it takes real lack of character to attack someone in a forum where they cannot defend themselves. The rest of you gossiping old women should be ashamed of yourselves for engaging in childish speculation and slanderous rumor mongering.

I dont think i want to be part of this community any longer. I am disgusted. This is why i live out in the sticks and keep to myself. Because of people like some of you.

Well...........Bye!

Right Side Up
July 25, 2015, 19:11
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MBfYQOSSPqc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

J. Armstrong
July 25, 2015, 20:05
As it takes real lack of character to attack someone in a forum where they cannot defend themselves. The rest of you gossiping old women should be ashamed of yourselves for engaging in childish speculation and slanderous rumor mongering.

I dont think i want to be part of this community any longer. I am disgusted. This is why i live out in the sticks and keep to myself. Because of people like some of you.

So I guess we are just supposed to sit back and tolerate poor business practice?

I'm thinking no tears will e shed at your departure :rolleyes:

Don't let the screen door hit you..........

slavicshooter
July 25, 2015, 22:48
RSU, that cat slayed me.:biggrin:

MistWolf
July 25, 2015, 22:49
So I guess we are just supposed to sit back and tolerate poor business practice?

No. But discussing it in an unprofessional manner is a poor practice as well

AZGummieBear
July 25, 2015, 23:48
Grow some balls and call him yourselves, cowards.

Unless youre afraid to get the whole story instead of the edited version youve been fed.

Right Side Up
July 26, 2015, 02:17
Ok. Ok. We get it. So there are two azzholes in AZ that do great work but are dickheads to people.

1911Ron
July 26, 2015, 03:33
Grow some balls and call him yourselves, cowards.

Unless youre afraid to get the whole story instead of the edited version youve been fed.

I have done business directly with him once. Before he was banned from Arizona Shooting forums he went off and started his own forum and called people that defended Azshooting many things which most of which can't be repeated.

This place has more knowledge about FALs than he will ever have. I think you need to grow some balls and grow up quit yer whining!:fal:

J. Armstrong
July 26, 2015, 06:52
I have done business directly with him once. Before he was banned from Arizona Shooting forums he went off and started his own forum and called people that defended Azshooting many things which most of which can't be repeated.

This place has more knowledge about FALs than he will ever have. I think you need to grow some balls and grow up quit yer whining!:fal:

This +1.

As I mentioned, he did the pretty much same thing here.It ain't hearsay. I don't see anything wrong with exposing that fact to others here to factor into their own decision.

gunplumber
July 26, 2015, 10:57
As it takes real lack of character to attack someone in a forum where they cannot defend themselves.

Why can't he defend himself here? Oh yeah, he was banned. His racist & inflammatory posting was too over-the-top for even dumping brass. It was a long history of pushing the limit. And after he was banned, he snuck back under fake names. Bragged about using spoofed IPs on Bower's site, so he got banned from there and he'd already been banned from Sturm. So yeah, he is a liar, a cheat, and a thief - and the owner threw his ass out. THAT is why he can't "defend himself" here. Or much of anywhere - because he burns those bridges.

The guy is a petty, vindictive, sociopath, and a pathological liar. The greatest shame of my professional career was teaching him gunsmithing, and allowing him to help me build FALs. He helped me make a lot of money twenty years back - in those days of $250 StG kits and $189 Imbels. But looking back, I'd have been better off sweeping my own floors, and doing my own sandblasting, and letting him stick to selling frozen steaks out of the back of a pickup truck.

slavicshooter
July 26, 2015, 12:59
Ftierson, if I may......' bout sums it up.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^;)

AZGummieBear
July 26, 2015, 16:20
Ah yes the Legend in his own mind speaks.


If memory serves you were a Taco bell employee after Robar canned your ass. Who was fired for sexual harassment.

I wouldnt break my arm jerking myself off if i were you. After talking with the grumpy guy he says the OP has conveniently left out an email apology just to cause trouble here. Where the dude cant defend. Of course. Because thats what passes for ethics these days.

I didnt want to pass this part on but Legend should probably hope that grumpy guy lives a long and healthy life. Because he made it known that this constant libel will eventually be settled. Personally and permanently. If grumpy guy is everything that you contend maybe you might think better than to provoke? Ya think? Some folks are best left alone.

gunplumber
July 26, 2015, 16:39
Because he made it known that this constant libel will eventually be settled. Personally and permanently. If grumpy guy is everything that you contend maybe you might think better than to provoke? Ya think? Some folks are best left alone.

Passing on threats of violence from a banned member? (Sigh)

What's he going to do, sneak up behind me and try to hit me with a sap?

That didn't go so well for him last time he tried it on someone.

W.E.G.
July 26, 2015, 16:47
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80035&stc=1&d=1437947235