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base704
June 22, 2015, 09:40
...so, where to start?
Bird gun and convert?
Or ""Police" gun already "there"?
Thinking about stock, and pistol grip, along with mag capacity...
Was checking "gunbroker", and there is a big diff in price.
Opinions?
TIA...

-704

Jaxxas
June 22, 2015, 09:50
I like a folding stock with pistol grip and a flashlight on the front. I converted my Mossberg 590a1.

Fn/form
June 22, 2015, 13:42
Non-paperwork rifles can be shorter length, as or more reliable, better range of ammo, familiar controls, wider range of white or low light options.

If you're sold on the shotty and are dedicated to practice, in pump action I prefer the increased durability of police/mil models like Rem 870 Police and FN P-12. The 870 has the lion's share of aftermarket support.

The older Rem Wingmasters are solid, smooth with durable parts and the base for most of the old police shotguns.

I think the Wichester 1300 is now made in Turkey. At least the low end ones are.

The only shorter semi-autos I have experience with are FN SLP and Beretta 1301 Tactical. The Beretta comes with oversize controls snd a half-decent loading port. The FN was very reliable but that lifter can draw blood if you're in a hurry loading. The bolt release is small. C-Rums can weld up the lifter at a reasonable price, Nordic has a big bolt handle, but the FN seems to cost more already. I haven't yet shot a Beretta with the Kick Off recoil system, but the guys that have them like them.

The Stoeger 3000 is a huge favorite with the budget minded 3-gunners. I'm not sure what they run in the shorter lengths. MOA Precision (http://moaprecision.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=3) is the go to, might be a great resource.

Decide on usable range and pick sights accordingly. I strongly prefer a regular stock, gives an instant index and excellent recoil/follow through control compared to a pistol grip. I do have an old Wingmaster in the old Knoxx recoil reducing top folder. Compact, just not my first choice for serious use.

VALMET
June 22, 2015, 14:19
I've had an 870 Police Mag for HD for 15 years and although I've never HAD TO use it (thankfully) I've been very happy with it. Mine sports the factory 18" bbl with the bead sight, wood stocks and polished blue finish- I've owned 2 more current mfg 870s (2007 and 2013) with the factory parkerized-type finish (although it's not technically parkerization apparently) and had them both duracoated as they were rust-o-matics (even after thorough cleanings).

I'd be a tad cautious about buying anything new from Rem these days (just my opinion) but you'd do well to find a slightly used 870 and accessorize as you go. I'm a less is more guy when it comes to shotguns personally. A used 870 outfitted with an aftermarket stock, PG, saddle holder, etc can likely be had for around $500 or slightly under.

croftonaviation
June 22, 2015, 14:31
870's for home defense are fine. I have the first one I bought new in 1995. 20" barrel with sights, fixed wood stock, side saddle for shells, and a 2 round mag extension. It lives with six rounds of very, very stout #6 shot loaded in it and 3 slugs/3 oo buck in the side saddle. We live out in the country and it will deal with anything that might normally happen. If it gets too bad, that's what fal's are for.

Good luck in your search

Tom

Gazz
June 22, 2015, 18:48
I bought my first 870 new in 1970 at Beikirchs in Roch. ny. I hunted that shotgun every year for nearly 40 years with only one malfunction, and that was because I had screwed up putting it back together after cleaning. The older ones are rock solid but I would be leery of a new one. Good used ones can be had for short money (well under $200) if you pay attention and beat the bushes properly. Either cut the barrel to your desired length or buy a new one along with all the other HD parts that you might want. The older ones are usually very slick and smooth from use too. There is nothing as nasty as a
12g slug at close range if you consider commonly available firearms.

Nuttz
June 22, 2015, 19:01
Yup!!! Early 1990s 870, two shot extender, Blackhawk Knoxx furniture, Streamlight, 6 shots Milsurp 00Buck, and plenty backup on left thigh!

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img540/2697/s2h0R9.jpg

Invictus77
June 22, 2015, 19:05
I'm not gonna turn this into a "what is best" thread, but for me the 870 is hard to beat for home defense. An 870 was the first gun I purchased for myself at about age 14 or 15 and have hunted with one for most of 40 years since. I still have the one I bought as a young teen in one of my safes.

I have an 870 upstairs in the bedroom and one downstairs in the garage, both with 20" slug barrels. The thing about the 870 for me (which could be applied to other guns for other people) is that it is "brainless" for me. If I am half-asleep, half-drunk, half-scared, half-anything, I don't have to "find" any controls or figure it out in the dark. The safety, the slide release, the trigger pull, hell everything about it is an extension of me with no thought. The same holds true for 1911s.

As others mentioned above, stick to the older Wingmasters. A little diligence will score you one for $200 to $250 in great condition.

Yes I am certain there are better choices for many folks, but these two choices fit me. Slugs or buckshot are arguable I suppose, but for me an 870 is perfect for this purpose.

W.E.G.
June 22, 2015, 19:09
Buy one that already is configured with the stuff you NEED on it.

For most folks, the most basic version of home defense shotguns is all you need.

The cheese-graters, fancy sights, bayonet lugs, etc will offer very little added utility to the ordinary homeowner.

What else do you need?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=489489890

Invictus77
June 22, 2015, 19:14
For most folks, the most basic version of home defense shotguns is all you need.

The cheese-graters, fancy sights, bayonet lugs, etc will offer very little added utility to the ordinary homeowner.



Good point. Mine I mentioned are the original Wingmaster configuration, blued with wood furniture. There is nothing "tacticool" about them.

They do have the short 20" slug barrel and a nylon shell-holder sleeve on the stock with an additional 5 rounds.

Blue Monster
June 23, 2015, 08:56
Buy one that already is configured with the stuff you NEED on it.

+1

As purchased, other than the shucker and CCCG loop... still looking for an upland plastic stock (never). Operates flawlessly, has successfully scared the bear... twice. Plain and simple, plus it's an 870, plug and play barrels for birding. 20 ga. for me though, personally I like it WAY over 12, but I like 'em light.

<a href="http://s141.photobucket.com/user/bluemonster2003/media/DSCN6349%20470x1024_zpsotydqeyb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/bluemonster2003/DSCN6349%20470x1024_zpsotydqeyb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSCN6349 470x1024_zpsotydqeyb.jpg"/></a>

Old LW wingmaster mod tube.

<a href="http://s141.photobucket.com/user/bluemonster2003/media/guns/DSCN6001_zps1f7cd645.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r61/bluemonster2003/guns/DSCN6001_zps1f7cd645.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSCN6001_zps1f7cd645.jpg"/></a>

c0wb0y84
June 23, 2015, 09:06
If you need ideas or want to buy already configured check out AI and P Tactical. There's some good info about the 870 from a guy that knows a lot about them.

nearmisses
June 23, 2015, 13:41
The 870 is a very good gun, extended mag, maybe a 22-21"?"rifle sight barrel with extended tube to fit and last but not least, Aguilla makes some short shot shells that work well in these guns, more rounds on hand in an extended tube. I am looking for an 1100 I can fix up and same plan for home defense.

nopec
June 23, 2015, 21:29
The 870 tacticals with factory extended tube, bead or ghost rings, and screw in chokes perform very well. Have one. That said, the Mossberg 930spx runs rings around it. It eats everything from target loads on up and I've found it to be very versatile with the federal tru-ball slugs and flite control buckshot.

base704
June 23, 2015, 22:27
Buy one that already is configured with the stuff you NEED on it.

For most folks, the most basic version of home defense shotguns is all you need.

The cheese-graters, fancy sights, bayonet lugs, etc will offer very little added utility to the ordinary homeowner.

What else do you need?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=489489890

Lotsa good info/opinions...
I fully agree with the lack of need for all the silly shit.
The Gunbroker link is almost exactly what i'm looking for.
Thanx for all the input...

Douglas S Graham
June 24, 2015, 17:47
I bought mine as a police version, and promptly put a wood stock set on it to make it sexy. A side saddle, left handed safety, flashlight and we are GTG. 00 buck for teh night. :biggrin:

STGThndr
June 24, 2015, 19:25
This has been a popular topic over the years- goes to show that new people have been touching base here, that's a GOOD thing!
I used several 12ga pumps as duty weapons. Retired now but keep a couple around still. First off I prefer a semi-auto carbine in my trunk over a shotgun, that said a shotgun can defuse a situation simply by it's presence. There seems to be a move toward AR15's in patrol vehicles these days.
For home defense, a 12ga pump with light and shorter barrel- 20 inch works for me- and extended magazine works well. Buckshot can over-penetrate thin walls... "BB" shot strikes me as safer than the heavier buck for penetration...
One thing I personally insist upon is a "two-rail" pump design- Ive had a one-rail snap, rendering the shotgun useless. Two rails are very much stronger and more reliable. I prefer the black nylon "plastic" NON pistolgrip. Feels better in the hand and doesnt recoil into my thumb-index finger web.
The Mossberg 500 series are good shotties, and natural pointers. I have carried them for "business" with no issues. Make sure to check the cap on the end of the tube, I had one work loose. Healed it with a VERY SMALL dot of loc-tite. I like the controls of the 500 better than the 870.
I have 2 870's, older, and they have never ever failed. Both have extended tubes, one with sights, the other the bead. Very reliable...
Enjoy, and enjoy...

raubvogel
July 06, 2015, 08:49
http://summitgunbroker.com/870-mag.html perhaps?

W.E.G.
July 06, 2015, 08:58
http://summitgunbroker.com/870-mag.html perhaps?


Looks like just the ticket there.

Dunno if the rear sight adjusts by using tiny, fine-thread screws.
I've got an old S&W 3000 that has such screws in the sights, and I discovered the hard way that the screws can fail (snap) even if you are careful in adjusting them.

If you think you might be dicking with the sights, my advice is to keep a couple spare sight-screws handy. The gun is certainly still "useable" if the rear sight craps-out, but it sure is annoying.


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/DSCN3238.jpg

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79948&stc=1&d=1436191328

Artful
July 06, 2015, 13:08
I like my 870
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Remington8703gunshotty_zpsb267d37e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Remington8703gunshotty_zpsb267d37e.jpg.html)

I tried a Folder / Pistol Grip and don't like it for home defense

W.E.G.
July 06, 2015, 14:13
I tried a Folder / Pistol Grip and don't like it for home defense

I carried an 870 top-folder as a duty gun back in the 80's.

High marks for intimidation.
Low marks for shootability.

Like this.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79951&stc=1&d=1436209796

abbynormal
July 06, 2015, 22:32
Sorry Gary, but mine's longer!!!!!!!!!!!:uhoh:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93662986@N04/19298168139/in/dateposted-public/

Artful
July 07, 2015, 01:35
I carried an 870 top-folder as a duty gun back in the 80's.

High marks for intimidation.
Low marks for shootability.

Like this.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79951&stc=1&d=1436209796

Yeah, I tried Remingtons top folder - My Dentist loved it - me not so much
Then tried Choate Side folder - better but still not as good as just
standard stock configuration - I did change from wood to plastic
as it stands up to abuse better.

I did put a Choate pistol grip non-folding stock on an 1100 for 3 gun
http://www.thecountryshed.com/SPG0200.jpg

BillBuckley
July 18, 2015, 11:20
most of this seems like good advice:

http://www.aiptactical.com/

legion489
July 18, 2015, 15:20
Got a 1958 Rem 870 that works fine. Got a Pistol Grip only (police turn in) gun and do not care for the pistol grip. Looks "mean" and it is, when shooting it!! Hitting anything with it is another matter. At a local auction I bought a beater 870 Wingmaster and like new 870 Express with scope, both for about what the Express would cost new. Both seem fine.

The Mossberg 500s I and a bunch of friends bought back in the mid-late 1970s were junk. We bought them because they were cheap, and CHEAP is exactly the right word for them! We shot them into the ground and were constantly repairing and replacing parts until the guns literally fell apart. I have never bought a Mossberg since. Quite possibly the newer guns, and/or the 930 series are better, but that "first new gun" left a bitter taste in my mouth that I never got over.

My view is look at what the pros use and when I lived on the Mississippi I could go duck hunting with friends very day of the season. NONE of them used a Mossberg anything. Ithaca 37s, Rem 870s, Winchesters, Brownings, etc. NO MOSSBERGS! Same with any other duck hunting area I went, NO ONE who hunted much used a Mossberg.

Bruce Allen
July 18, 2015, 17:19
...so, where to start?...-704
At the beginning... :biggrin:

Forgive me, but I am not familiar with you and do not know what your experience or training has consisted of as far as firearms or firearms tactics.

Have you considered what the tactical layout of your house is, and are you the only person that lives there?

Since we are discussing the means to use deadly force there is much that needs to be soberly considered..

garyd1961
July 18, 2015, 20:45
I think the 870 makes a nice home defense gun. I just have the plain jane version with an 18 inch police barrel. I still have the factory 28 inch barrel that I can use for hunting if I like.
It sits in the back of my safe now as I use my Glock 22 backed up by one of my FALs for home defense.
This is one of the newer models and I had problems with it until I took sandpaper to the rails.
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff398/garya1961/041_zpsuaerqtpk.jpg

BillBuckley
July 19, 2015, 08:51
...so, where to start?
Bird gun and convert?
Or ""Police" gun already "there"?
Thinking about stock, and pistol grip, along with mag capacity...
Was checking "gunbroker", and there is a big diff in price.
Opinions?
TIA...

-704

Do you bird hunt? Even that one gets in to something that flies(longer barrel a plus for follow through) vs. turkey(more like a shooting a rifle so barrel length not as critical) as to what you want to go with.

Chokes are not as big of an issue any more since Federal Flite Control wads(and what ever Hornady uses that perform the same) typically do best out of cylinder bores to avoid stripping the wad off. If you are planning on using one for turkey hunting the 3" chamber is almost a necessity for ammunition. The flexi tab is really a good idea too since the malfunction that can occur with the old system is hard to clear.

Other than smoothing up the inside of the receiver & finishes, there are only a few bucks worth of difference in the parts between an Express, Wingmaster, and police gun. AI&P even prefers the cheap plastic trigger group housing of the Express to the aluminum group of the Wingmaster/Police.

Illurian00
July 20, 2015, 11:58
Any recommendations for mag extensions?

BillBuckley
July 20, 2015, 16:59
Working a spring back and forth(unloading and loading) creates heat which is what wears springs out.

http://www.rem870.com/2011/01/27/magazine-extensions-for-remington-870-shotgun-nordic-components-choate-tacstar-remington-ati/

AI&P is very in to the Wilson Combat extensions.

ByrnieMac
July 22, 2015, 21:42
I'll throw my hat into the ring. The 870 is fantastic gun for home defense.

12ga pump, in my opinion, is the perfect home defense weapon. I have a Mossy 500 chainsaw that I put a comfy grip and a shell carrier on. The shell carrier isn't necessary whatsoever, and the comfy grip is for when I want to range shoot. Comfort doesn't matter for a few adrenaline fueled shots at a home invader.

The flashlight, I feel is almost a must-have for home defense. Provides positive identification for what you are targeting and most tac lights on the market are affordable and bright enough to do the job. They intruder's eyes will be adjusted for low-light, so these super bright flashlights (led or halogen, either is fine) will temporarily blind the individual, giving you the upper hand.

I use #4 law enforcement buck (in the pic i have 00 in the holder, but I typically have blue shell #4's), so it doesn't over penetrate through walls and neighbor's houses, and I keep the chamber empty so I can rack the action as loud as possible and hopefully deescalate the situation right then and there. Everybody knows that sound.

Here's mine, for what it's worth. The chainsaw grip makes it fun as hell to shoot, and I rather like it. Just know for the sake of conversation that I would be just as happy and prepared with any off-the-shelf 870
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg492/Byrnie_Mac/2012-11-28_17-38-13_180_zpscf713cec.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/Byrnie_Mac/media/2012-11-28_17-38-13_180_zpscf713cec.jpg.html)

Nuttz
July 24, 2015, 08:27
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MprVOZrB2rY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:love:

jyo
August 12, 2015, 21:50
Well, I like older 870s---have three---and I like Farm Girl...