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sbl11
June 02, 2015, 01:53
So this looks to be a weld job? Or do I need some schooling? And is it legitimate to own even if I think the buy it now is ridiculous? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=485791371

Thanks for the help!

Sbl

AliYahu
June 02, 2015, 09:07
Yeah, no, that guy is high in more ways than one!

Eli

sbl11
June 02, 2015, 11:20
Haha! Thanks! I was just curious as to how it was made too. The fmp mag well markings are all intact, and from every barrel trunion/ receiver stub I have ever seen in parts kits, they are cut well in front of the marking. We're there ever any fmp non "g3s" or "xg3s" complete guns am led in that manner?

djfin
June 03, 2015, 14:50
It is not a reweld. It does have a paddle mag release that was added to it. Crappy weld on the bottom shelf area but it can be fixed easy enough. The pitting on the right side is also minor and can be fixed at the same time as the shelf area as this will require a refinish anyway. Buy it now price is a little high given the condition but not by much. Does not look like the factory semi trigger packs I have seen more like a home convert but a legal convert. From the pictures it appears to be a legal rifle why would you think it is not?

sbl11
June 03, 2015, 18:36
Well it seems to have been a factory made mg, converted into a semi gun. Sure in the configuration it is now it should be legal, but the only factory made fmp semi's I know of are not marked solely "G3".

jimmieZ
June 04, 2015, 07:56
A number of FMP complete receivers (minus gas block and charger tube) were imported years ago. It looks like one of those was cobbled into a complete rifle. My original FMP rifle is so much cleaner in construction.

G3isMe
June 04, 2015, 08:43
A number of FMP complete receivers (minus gas block and charger tube) were imported years ago. It looks like one of those was cobbled into a complete rifle. My original FMP rifle is so much cleaner in construction.

The imported FMP receivers came in both with and with out the charging tube already installed. I have one that was without the tube. I don't think any of the FMP import receivers were marked "G3" on the mag well like the one on Gunbroker. In addition all of those receivers should have import markings, "Interport ...." either on the magwell or on top of the receiver. There are some threads here with photos of both types of FMP imported receivers.

.

sbl11
June 04, 2015, 12:05
So, what the heck is this one? I am not the owner, nor do I think I could afford to bid on this auction. I merely am trying to educate myself and am not on some kind of smear campaign. I would love to have an FMP exactly like this, but I have my concerns on the legality. the only thing that could make this better is a little rhodesian provenance electro-penciled on the side. Are there such gun out there?

tywest
June 04, 2015, 13:04
That price is high and that trunnion area of the reciever looks like poo.

Ive never seen a reciever that poorly welded, even the magwell looks tweaked.

MJ1
June 05, 2015, 12:40
A number of FMP complete receivers (minus gas block and charger tube) were imported years ago. It looks like one of those was cobbled into a complete rifle. My original FMP rifle is so much cleaner in construction.

What is a gas block ? Is it adjustable ? All mine are delayed roller lock.

BIG50
June 06, 2015, 11:31
I have several FMP receivered G3s that i built over the years. Most are marked Interport delta and one is a century import. Some had the cocking tube already welded in some no tube. The one on gunbroker looks to be a kit build that was engraved G3 then reparked. I have one of my FMP G3 built into a G3K had the receiver engraved FMP G3K A3

21HK
June 06, 2015, 13:06
One thing for sure is they did a remarkable job replicating the two little stampings and the pitted metal....I wouldn't touch it.
The spot weld looks factory to me also.
http://i57.tinypic.com/ieia02.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/29ftvkz.jpg

Real FMP
http://i60.tinypic.com/1zmnq5t.jpg

FMP kit
http://i59.tinypic.com/rjdx1z.jpg

sbl11
June 06, 2015, 15:01
Thanks for the help! So is it a good build? Because I have now sort of heard both. Also, is there any chance this was a converted mg? And if so, would it be an issue? I am looking for an fmp build on a parts kit with rhodesian provenance, and so far this is the only fmp gun on gun broker that is built using a real kit( I need that barrel ring of authenticity that you don't get in the civilian guns..haha)

wkendwarrior2003
June 07, 2015, 06:06
Fellas,

Let's take a look at this, ok?

Receiver marked "G3 FMP 180751 2/70" As in February 1970.

It's got the straight, non-tapered cocking tube. Like an original military FMP G3 would have. (Just keep it mind).

As far as we can see at least, all the marked parts are made by FMP, and seem consistent with what would have been used to build an FMP gun during that time frame. (Just keep it in mind).

The finish looks pretty much exactly like that which I have seen on every FMP parts kit that I've come across. IOW, to me it seems original, not that glitzy shiny glossy "HK" finish a lot of kit builds have had applied to them by smiths. (could be replicated, but just keep it in mind).

Now you will sometimes see non-tapered cocking tubes used in kit builds (I know I have two of them) so it's definitely not impossible that somebody built a semi rifle using a parts kit with the older style tube, but look at the date on the magwell again . 02/70! (DEFINITELY KEEP THIS IN MIND!)

Not for nothing, but FMP G3s were just starting to be made in Portugal on a large scale at this time, the earlier observed ones often had HK marked bolts, carriers, etc. Between Portugal's own military and the order from Germany for some FMP built G3s, I kind of doubt FMP had had much time to build any commercial/semi-auto G3s for anybody.

Do you really think this gun was originally built as a semi-auto??? Put it together!

*I will add, yes, dates can be "faked", and it is possible that someone wanted to build a clone of an FMP G3 from that era, just as it is possible the HK marked "semi" G3 (marked "1/73") he has in the other auction was built the same way, with the same meticulous attention to detail, from the HK stamping to the other markings on the gun...be honest now though--how likely is that?*

There's one way to be even more sure--has anyone asked to see a better picture of the other side of the magwell? The little that I can see of it, it looks blank.

wkendwarrior2003
June 07, 2015, 06:21
That price is high and that trunnion area of the reciever looks like poo.

Ive never seen a reciever that poorly welded, even the magwell looks tweaked.

Imagine if it were a real factory FMP...

21HK
June 07, 2015, 10:20
Do you really think this gun was originally built as a semi-auto??? Put it together!

Pretty much what I was trying to say... everything you pointed out is spot on.
I don't think there is any question about what it is.

:facepalm:I just noticed that I had a typo, would should of read "WOULD NOT" touch it.

wkendwarrior2003
June 07, 2015, 18:07
FWIW, here is what the seller told me via email a few hours ago:

ME:"Good Morning! Are you the first owner of this rifle, or know any of the history of its importation or its story from the previous owner? Also does the magazine well on the other side have any markings that you can see? I can't tell from the picture? Thanks!"

SELLER: "I bought it in the 90ís and used it twice. It has a SACO stamp."

I stand by my previous assertion, but I can very much believe that SACO did bring it in, just like Century brought in real Brit L1A1s (the LEO guns). So there it is--decide for yourself.

G3isMe
June 07, 2015, 18:17
Thanks for the help! So is it a good build? Because I have now sort of heard both. Also, is there any chance this was a converted mg? And if so, would it be an issue? I am looking for an fmp build on a parts kit with rhodesian provenance, and so far this is the only fmp gun on gun broker that is built using a real kit( I need that barrel ring of authenticity that you don't get in the civilian guns..haha)

I think everyone is saying to not trust that rifle on GB. I would not touch it with a ten foot pole. Here is my FMP Semi Build using an imported legal FMP receiver and an FMP HK mix Rhodie kit. Note the markings on mine compared to the one in question. The last photo I posted is the mag well which came with this kit. Look familiar?.....:uhoh:...


.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79662&stc=1&d=1433718639
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79664&d=1433718661
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79665&stc=1&d=1433718902
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79663&stc=1&d=1433718655
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?[IMG]http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79666&stc=1&d=1433718706
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79666&stc=1&d=1433718706
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79667&stc=1&d=1433718706
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79668&stc=1&d=1433718706

wkendwarrior2003
June 07, 2015, 18:20
Pretty much what I was trying to say... everything you pointed out is spot on.
I don't think there is any question about what it is.

:facepalm:I just noticed that I had a typo, would should of read "WOULD NOT" touch it.

Your attention to detail with the things you pointed out is pretty damn sharp, I have to give you credit there!:bow:

G3isMe
June 07, 2015, 18:28
FWIW, here is what the seller told me via email a few hours ago:

ME:"Good Morning! Are you the first owner of this rifle, or know any of the history of its importation or its story from the previous owner? Also does the magazine well on the other side have any markings that you can see? I can't tell from the picture? Thanks!"

SELLER: "I bought it in the 90’s and used it twice. It has a SACO stamp."

I stand by my previous assertion, but I can very much believe that SACO did bring it in, just like Century brought in real Brit L1A1s (the LEO guns). So there it is--decide for yourself.

If it is legit it is probably a pretty good deal. I would like to see the import markings before I bought it.

.

sbl11
June 07, 2015, 22:26
Yea, so where there is one there is another, and if no one has ever heard of these marked in this fashion brought in by such a large import company, then I highly doubt it is of leagl origin. Dang nice example g3isme!

d762nato
June 14, 2015, 09:51
Well it looks like the seller dropped his price some on GB.

G3isMe
June 14, 2015, 16:37
I think it is rather telling that he has not received one bid on this rifle. I would like to buy it but there is that little voice in the back of my head telling me to stay away from it....:|

.

01BIRDDOG
June 14, 2015, 18:03
On one hand if it were not legit. he would not be so in the public if you will with this rifle. You just cant be this way if it is something other than legal can you? Kind of like a "G" not on the list.........you would be afraid to push a deal.

sbl11
June 14, 2015, 18:28
Totally agree...it is just a little too grey area for me...it is exactly what I want, but what I want is as close to the real deal as possible...that is why this is such tease and yet potentially taboo....after all if it wasn't at one time the real deal, whoever did it did too good a job

Lee Carpentieri
June 14, 2015, 19:45
I've owned a few FMP G3'S and the post ban XG3'S. On these kit builds, If their ISN't 7 US made compliance parts, It's ILLEGAL. Personally I wouldn't spend 800.00 on this one. You have to ask yourself this, It's a former Portugese G3 MG kit, Do you know what the barrel looks like? Throat erosion? Proper gap on bolt roller's.Overall condition of the weapon inside and out.

sbl11, Hang on to your money and do some serious searching of the Web, News papers if still around your area, Gun Digest, Shotgun News at News stands and other rag magazines. You should be able to find a real HK-91 for 2500.00 or less if someone is hurting bad enough for money.;)

AliYahu
June 14, 2015, 22:27
...If their ISN't 7 US made compliance parts, It's ILLEGAL...

That's not true, it is illegal to manufacture a gun without compliance parts; there is no issue with possession nor is the weapon contraband.

Eli

21HK
June 14, 2015, 22:44
It's not a question of whether or not its a kit, it is... but more so the concern about the receiver.

All the signs are pointing that the receiver is illegal, US parts count doesn't really matter at this point.

Questions about the the Bw marked G3 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=487647554)that he has for sale brought up the same concerns over on HKPRO.

sbl11
June 15, 2015, 02:51
Yea, I don't much care fore HK-91's in that they are a commercial venture all along. what I want is a parts kit(specifically FMP) that has been built into a clipped and pinned complete rifle. Now, this rifle with what we are referring to as a questionable reciever fulfills that. Legally speaking, whether it is legitimate to own and not take a walk down butt pound prison lane for a few years is where the discussion is taking place.

G3isMe
June 15, 2015, 22:44
It's not a question of whether or not its a kit, it is... but more so the concern about the receiver.

All the signs are pointing that the receiver is illegal, US parts count doesn't really matter at this point.

Questions about the the Bw marked G3 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=487647554)that he has for sale brought up the same concerns over on HKPRO.

On the HK in the last picture of his ad you can see, barely, the importer name and information on the right side magwell.

sbl11
June 15, 2015, 23:36
I saw that but was a bit skeptical being that no one had heard of any being imported like this