PDA

View Full Version : Getting into Ak's.....5.45 or 7.62?


CivyBlue
April 29, 2015, 00:03
Definitely want a AK....had an AR rifle, have an AR pistol and a FAL, buying a bolt action and shotgun....but want a new flavor of rifle....

So my question is...which is superior and why?

Max effective range?
Mag prices?
Best model for each? (budget minded, don't need an Arsenal)
......

Bubacus
April 29, 2015, 06:05
I have AKs in both calibers. I bought had a really nice AK-74 built up off a Bulgarian parts kit at a time 5.45x39 was very cheap. It is a great shooter. If you are looking to keep shooting costs down and are looking for easily available ammo, a 7.62x39 might be the way to go. Both are fun to shoot...tons of options with configuratons..they are kind of like potato chips...you just cant have one.

gunplumber
April 29, 2015, 08:09
5.45 is superior to 7.62x39 in almost every respect. It used to be half the cost to shoot, but now the price has risen to the same as 7.62x39.

Mags will cost more, but you only need to buy those once.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ak/ak-family-01.jpg

CivyBlue
April 29, 2015, 09:40
5.45 seems to be the fan favorite....

What's a reasonable price for a good medium quality build/buy? (Links)

And yes a suchka just sounds plain sexy!

gunplumber
April 29, 2015, 09:45
Just buy an Arsenal 104 FR from Atlantic. About $1100. Solid folder or triangle is personal preference.

Add:

trigger job
ultimak rail
micro red dot
2 point sling
rattle-can camo.

Or spend $500+ for an original barrel 74 kit, $250 for the folder, $100 receiver, $550 build, $100 in US parts, and wait 4+ months.

I build rifles for a living and I'll be happy to do the work; but if I were in the market, I'd just buy the 104.

CivyBlue
April 29, 2015, 09:53
Thanks Gunplumber.

But on the other side of the spectrum...thoughts on the RAS47 from Century?

gunplumber
April 29, 2015, 10:00
Thanks Gunplumber.

But on the other side of the spectrum...thoughts on the RAS47 from Century?

Minimally altered CAI IMPORTED stuff may be fine on the cheap side - WASR-10s, for example. Sometimes sloppy work, but not too high a risk for the price.

Anything BUILT by the angry-beavers and drunken-monkeys at CAI should be avoided. "All American Parts" is not a virtue.

The only AKs I recommend are the Arsenal 107 FR in 7.62x39 or the 104 FR in 5.45, and I have no financial interest in either. Actually, my financial interest is in talking you into having me do a custom build for you. But I can't build one for less than buy price. It's up to you whether more attention to detail, better off-the-shelf trigger, and vastly superior finish is worth the 30-50% higher price and delayed gratification.

I do not let my objective evaluation of products be influenced by anything other than the product's merits. My ego is bigger than my wallet. And the 107 and 104 are, in my professional and vastly experienced opinion, the best AKs currently on the market.

CivyBlue
April 29, 2015, 10:31
You ever use to sell cars? Lol

And thanks again, by your wall pic I'm surprised your not running a lil whorehouse down there with all the lil suchkas hanging around. (Gotta run em hard and dirty! Lol jk)

Sorry I tend to go off on tangents sometimes. Anyway thank you for your expertise and I'll definitely keep you in mind for a build after. :bow:

rbgonoles
April 29, 2015, 11:40
Here is my Arsenal SLR-104fr. Listen to what GP says. You won't be disspointed. Still plenty of surplus 5.45 to had. Check Dan's Ammo.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag403/burker2525/image.jpg2_zpsyklvjkgp.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/burker2525/media/image.jpg2_zpsyklvjkgp.jpg.html)
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag403/burker2525/image.jpg1_zpsbuenjqbe.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/burker2525/media/image.jpg1_zpsbuenjqbe.jpg.html)

Kingtubby
April 29, 2015, 11:41
This would be the best lower end kit build 74 - https://www.classicfirearms.com/ak74-rifle-bulgarian-us-parts

DDI took over for a firm that went down in flames - Waffen Werks. They seem to be building solid rifles, and stand by making their mistakes right. This sale is hard to beat. Definitely go that way over a century build. You never know who actually built it and their us made rifles have shown themselves to be less than stellar.

rbgonoles
April 29, 2015, 11:44
Thanks Gunplumber.

But on the other side of the spectrum...thoughts on the RAS47 from Century?

Junk.

Get a WASR for less if you are looking for a lower cost AK. At least you'll be getting a eastern european build AK with a chromlined CHF barrel and receiver. Reports on newly purchased WASRs are very positive. I picked on up in January when they were $499. Here is mine with some Romanian furniture.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag403/burker2525/6a579406ba11888cd90b2306b95e87ac_zps8cfac8ca.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/burker2525/media/6a579406ba11888cd90b2306b95e87ac_zps8cfac8ca.jpg.h tml)

Timber Wolf
April 29, 2015, 18:47
I have AKs in both calibers, and like shooting both and have found no real difference to a plinker (like me). I did load up on 5.45 ammo when it was cheap so there is that going for it though.:) I would say don't over look a good SAR-2 if one comes along at a fair price. I have two and they are great shooters. Of course I bought back in the day when they were cheap ($275), as were mags ($14 for four, in a pouch!). I agree with GP that the 104 FR is a great gun, and a fellow would not go wrong buying one. But, I also have a 106FR (5.56, and yes I know an AK in that caliber is an abomination) and my one-third the cost SAR-3 (also 5.56) is more accurate, and just as reliable. I don't know if my experience with 5.56 AKs can be translated to their 5.45 brothers but it does keep me from springing for a 104FR (at least so far, I have been a VERY good boy this year, and have a "milestone" birthday coming up).

SAFN49
April 29, 2015, 21:36
I'm still payin $0.19 a round for 7n6.

MajHenryWest
April 30, 2015, 08:37
Nice Side Folder 74 with Mags for Sale here in Marketplace -

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385470

def90
April 30, 2015, 09:43
I like my 74's, don't have a 47 so can't really contribute to the 5.45 vs 7.62 discussion. Between the 74s and my AR I like the 74s better. Don't listen to the anti corrosive ammo guys, I can shoot 7n6 all day and put my rifle away for a month and come back and not see any evidence of corrosion, the carbon build up gets pretty nasty though. I got stocked up on surplus and even with the ban it's still cheaper than commercial ammo.

Built these in my garage.. plan on building a side folder this summer and will be buying a couple polish 47 kits in the near future so I will have some 7.62 experience in the future.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iZog95ZxEp4/UhkxPmKv1tI/AAAAAAAAC0c/cVHcX4aaWsA/s800/IMG_20130824_160408_114sm.jpg

nopec
May 01, 2015, 12:55
I agree that 5.45 has many advantages. But supply isn't one of them. There are at least options for domestic 7.62. 5.45 could go away if Russian commercial ammo gets banned from import. I don't sweat it much. I just buy and shoot when it's available and cheap, then switch to what's available and cheap in the next panic.

gunplumber
May 01, 2015, 12:58
I agree that 5.45 has many advantages. But supply isn't one of them. There are at least options for domestic 7.62. 5.45 could go away if Russian commercial ammo gets banned from import. I don't sweat it much. I just buy and shoot when it's available and cheap, then switch to what's available and cheap in the next panic.

If twenty cents a round is too much for you, you're in the wrong hobby. Bulgarian and Romania export 5.45.

Arik
May 02, 2015, 09:32
I own both. Like both. 5.45 surplus got banned but there is still plenty around for $200 a tin of 1080 rounds.So while its not as cheap as it once was, its still fairly cheap

Whydah
May 02, 2015, 19:08
I have several AKs, all in 7.62. A Hungarian that is very accurate. A converted Saiga that is almost as good. A Zaztava that is well made, a pleasure to shoot, and is also very accurate for what we have become to think of as AK accuracy. I also have a Romanian side-folder built by ARS. It shot to the right first time out. After drifting the front site as far right as I could, its still hitting 2" to the right at 25M. Nice looking rifle, though, but relegated to storage as I hope I never need it.
The 5.45 is a tempting purchase. But I can buy 7.62X39 almost anywhere, even Dick's. Not so with the 5.45, which should be a consideration.

hueyville
May 03, 2015, 00:07
I have a stack of 7.62 x39 steel core corrosive ammo that am sure is responsible for all the weird earthquakes, tidal waves and avalanches due to it throwing the earth's spin into a wobble like a misbalanced wheel. Do I shoot it? Not often, saving it for a rainy day when having more steel core ammo than can count accurately might be useful. Shot a lot in the past when could buy for next to nothing. Never hurt any of my rifles but usually tried to clean them within a week of shooting the nasty stuff. Unless steel core, would not invest heavy in corrosive. Buy what attracts you, upgrade it to suit you and when done will actually know much better what you want in your next rifle and this one will warm your heart because it was your first.

gunplumber
May 03, 2015, 08:05
I can buy 7.62X39 almost anywhere, even Dick's. Not so with the 5.45, which should be a consideration.

I guess if you buy it by the box.

CivyBlue
May 03, 2015, 09:50
I have a stack of 7.62 x39 steel core corrosive ammo that am sure is responsible for all the weird earthquakes, tidal waves and avalanches due to it throwing the earth's spin into a wobble like a misbalanced wheel. Do I shoot it? Not often, saving it for a rainy day when having more steel core ammo than can count accurately might be useful. Shot a lot in the past when could buy for next to nothing. Never hurt any of my rifles but usually tried to clean them within a week of shooting the nasty stuff. Unless steel core, would not invest heavy in corrosive. Buy what attracts you, upgrade it to suit you and when done will actually know much better what you want in your next rifle and this one will warm your heart because it was your first.

Very true Hueyville....that's basically how I got into AR's....miss my first. But glad to know she's killing coyotes and crack heads in Cali....(not kidding)

And soon as I get my finances back in order (after vacay and a new job) , I'm probably pick up one of each...for comparative results of course! :cool:

CG&L
May 03, 2015, 11:00
On the Arsenal 104, a Krinkov is an AK with the short gas system?

Is there any reliability problems with the shorter gas system?

If someone chose to SBR a 104, would there be any need enlarge the gas port on their Krinkov or would it work as is ?

Whydah
May 03, 2015, 18:41
I guess if you buy it by the box.

Better than not being able to buy it at all.

gunplumber
May 03, 2015, 20:12
Better than not being able to buy it at all.

And that's happened when? Heck, I had a pallet delivered a couple weeks ago for a customer. Bob Williams has 16 cases (34 thousand rounds) for sale for less than $0.20/rd. Where is this hard to find thing?

gunplumber
May 03, 2015, 20:16
On the Arsenal 104, a Krinkov is an AK with the short gas system?

Is there any reliability problems with the shorter gas system?

If someone chose to SBR a 104, would there be any need enlarge the gas port on their Krinkov or would it work as is ?


R = side rail
F = 16"
C = 12" (SBR-ready, with barrel extended to 16")
U = 8" (SBR-ready, with barrel extended to 16")
104 =5.45
106 = 5.56
107 = 7.62.

The gas port does not need to be altered. On some models, there is a restrictor pressed into the underside of the gas block. When the barrel is cut off upon registering as an SBR, the restrictor is removed. This involves unpinning and pressing off the front sight/gas block combo, removing the doughnut restrictor, and remounting. That's why gun #3 is silver behind the front sight - I hadn't yet touched up the finish after removing the restrictor.. I have seen 104 URs with and without the restrictor. A gas port made for an 8" barrel, combined with a 16" barrel, will make for more pressure than necessary (velocity increase). reducing the effective port size with a doughnut in the gas block hole, is a very simple fix.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/wp/ak/ak-arsbuild-bulgy-47-family-plum.jpg

d762nato
May 04, 2015, 05:29
How do you like the folding stock on the 74 GP, as they look uncomfortable kind of like an underfolder stock to me. The mujahideen called those little bullets from the 74 the stinging death needles and hated them. You've sure got some nice weapons GP. Thanks for the great pics too.

Whydah
May 05, 2015, 07:09
And that's happened when? Heck, I had a pallet delivered a couple weeks ago for a customer. Bob Williams has 16 cases (34 thousand rounds) for sale for less than $0.20/rd. Where is this hard to find thing?

Great! I hope it stays that way. But how much Norinco ammo are you buying? Russian-built AKs/parts? Supply can dry up overnight with the stroke of someone's pen. Of course, you know that.

I'm not aware of any domestic manufacture of 5.45, and that is a red flag to me. To each his own.

gunplumber
May 05, 2015, 07:45
Great! I hope it stays that way. But how much Norinco ammo are you buying?I'm not aware of any domestic manufacture of 5.45, and that is a red flag to me. To each his own.

There isn't much that is wholly made in the USA any more. Does that stop you from buying a TV, refrigerator, or automobile?

There are more than 1 supplier of 5.45. None of mine has ever been Russian. It's Bulgarian, and Romanian. No sanctions there. Should all import be stopped, then it will be made here. But nobody is making it here when it's $0.11/rd to import. Who would buy it? The price only jumped to $0.22 when the panic buying kicked in over the Haughty Prince's "sanctions".

Taquero07
May 06, 2015, 01:51
doesn't Hornady make steel cased 5,45?

chet
May 06, 2015, 06:42
Yes, a 60 grain Vmax doing about 2800 from a 16" barrel. The bullet is LOOOONG.

http://www.hornady.com/store/5.45X39-60-gr-V-MAX-Steel-Case/

Blackmore
May 06, 2015, 06:45
doesn't Hornady make steel cased 5,45?

It appears they do:

http://www.hornady.com/store/5.45X39-60-gr-V-MAX-Steel-Case/

shep854
May 07, 2015, 19:55
I don't know how much company I'm in, but I'm financially constrained from bulk ammo buys, so box price is important, and for the here and now, 7.62x39 is the best center-fire price going.

paulo
May 09, 2015, 11:29
Nice Side Folder 74 with Mags for Sale here in Marketplace -

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385470

Still for sale?

grumpy1
May 09, 2015, 14:05
While I don't have much experience with the 5.45 I have shot a few and like them. However, 20 years ago I rolled the dice on the 7.62 x39 and haven't given up on it. I own two poly-techs AK-47 and three SKS. So to me it makes since to keep the 7.62.

I could do like Gunplumber did and sell off my AK47 and SKS and then buy Ak74. But there is something about a .30 cal bullet that I like.

MajHenryWest
May 09, 2015, 18:10
Still for sale?

Yes, sent you a PM

MistWolf
May 31, 2015, 13:29
How hard would it be to have an AK configured like a Galil?

PARA FN FAL
June 02, 2015, 09:17
Some people have converted Norinco hunter model 7.62x39 rifles into galil copies but I don't remember who or what was involved. A company called Elite Firearms is said to have made a very nice version but I didn't find much info.

FALfan4011
June 09, 2015, 13:57
For an AK, I prefer 7.62. To me, while 5.45 is better than 5.56 in destabizing it's not enough to make me chose it before an AR.

LKY_13
June 09, 2015, 15:58
destabizing

De-stab-izing eh? Does this term refer to the amount of force required to remove the bayonet from a corpse?

gunplumber
June 09, 2015, 16:16
De-stab-izing eh? Does this term refer to the amount of force required to remove the bayonet from a corpse?

What do you think Corpsemen are for?

shep854
June 09, 2015, 16:57
What do you think Corpsemen are for?

Set to Gunplumber! :bow:

FALfan4011
June 09, 2015, 16:58
De-stab-izing eh? Does this term refer to the amount of force required to remove the bayonet from a corpse?

lol, destabilizing. ******* auto-correct.

shep854
June 09, 2015, 17:07
lol, destabilizing. ******* auto-correct.
Thanks for the chuckles:)