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View Full Version : special M14 with no markings, full auto. Black ops? only M14+serial


paco
April 17, 2015, 10:34
Hi folks,
I live in Belgium, so no need to call the man in black.
Speaking about the man in black. Currently i'm alble to buy some special weapons from a testfacility. One of the guns is a M14. It has no other markings as M14 and serial. The thing fires full auto too.
So, what is it, rare item, vietnam black ops?

any good info in the next 24 hrs is welcome. I need to decide what i take with a limited budget. The other pieces i bought will be on the files soon.
Thx Paco
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/DSCN7736_zpsg30szf4g.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/DSCN7736_zpsg30szf4g.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/DSCN7735_zpsrbmjoeei.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/DSCN7735_zpsrbmjoeei.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/DSCN7734_zpsrsszun7u.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/DSCN7734_zpsrsszun7u.jpg.html)

ArtBanks
April 17, 2015, 11:13
Very interesting. If you have a chance, post the numbers on the bolt and trigger group. Could be just a Chinese copy.

hagar
April 17, 2015, 11:17
Not an expert, but I don't think that was "Made in the USA" either.

gtodan
April 17, 2015, 11:35
Looks like a polytech....

Topbanana
April 17, 2015, 11:41
It's neat though! BUY IT!

paco
April 17, 2015, 11:43
Be advised, these rifles came out a testfacility and all guns were tested around the 80's.
There are Mag58, galil 706 707... M16's AUG's FAL's FAMAS, L85 ...

In worst case, what is a copy worth?

Topbanana
April 17, 2015, 11:47
I'd get the L-85. :D

andresere
April 17, 2015, 12:55
Hi folks,
It has no other markings as M14 and serial. The thing fires full auto too.
So, what is it, rare item, vietnam black ops?



Paco, only if it was for sale on Gunbroker :biggrin:........ I agree with the others - I don't think that's 'Murican.

JonathanW
April 17, 2015, 13:32
I'd get the L-85. :D

I second this motion

skiprat
April 17, 2015, 14:28
I'd let the L85 rot........

Topbanana
April 17, 2015, 14:33
I'd let the L85 rot........

They are pretty cool rifles. And no one here has one! :D

2barearms
April 17, 2015, 15:57
The Chicoms made their M14's with a couple features that we didn't.
If you take the stock off and look at the Disconnector Pin that holds the
Op rod spring guide in place it will have a solid pin that keeps the pin
from coming out. The US Rifles would have a roll in them. Also the rear sight
elevation pinion will have a WRA type marking since the rifle they copied was a
Winchester. HTH

ArtBanks
April 17, 2015, 16:15
Another difference would be the right side of the receiver ring on a Chinese rifle would be drilled and tapped for a set screw.

paco
April 17, 2015, 16:29
Well i had a short timeframe to make the call.
I got 4 niw Dutch FALs, 1 Dutch FALO, niw L85+optics, niw FAMAS, Short AUG, HB AUG, a few Belgian mausers '89 and a H&K MP5 SEF. My bro got galils 706,707,708 and a didactical Dutch uzi.
Papers need to be done, lots of money too:facepalm:
I'll make detailed pics for the cloners out there.

Next time i'll take pics on that strang M14. I'm not in the M14 or MA1 branche so i don't want to burn my fingers...
If it is very special i would buy it and start digging for info. if common, just step away. You don't wanna hear what i didn't buy (due to money shortnes) out of the pile testing rifles.
Will get back to this if the items are in my mancave.
Thanks so far.
Paco

skiprat
April 17, 2015, 16:55
Any chance of a photo of the tin can Enfield? (L85) what's the serial number UE. Or UN ?
You wouldn't know where to get an original 4.85 IW magazine would you????:shades:

W.E.G.
April 17, 2015, 17:06
:homerdrool: I got 4 niw Dutch FALs.

paco
April 17, 2015, 17:08
Any chance of a photo of the tin can Enfield? (L85) what's the serial number UE. Or UN ?
You wouldn't know where to get an original 4.85 IW magazine would you????:shades:

UN93A3xxxxx
But hey, let's wait untill all this is on my desk. I wouldn't challange the karma gods to punish me because i'm showing off to much...
Paco

Story
April 17, 2015, 21:49
That serial number does not compute
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php

It's even higher than the post-war serial # range assigned to Springfield Armory for the M1 Garand.

paco
April 18, 2015, 02:38
That serial number does not compute
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/mildateslookup.php

It's even higher than the post-war serial # range assigned to Springfield Armory for the M1 Garand.
What to think about?
All the other items in there bunker are top condition or rare.

HD-Ghost
April 18, 2015, 05:04
Lucky you. Nice score; can't wait for the pics.

Mark IV
April 18, 2015, 06:30
Is it FA only? Don't see the selector on the starboard side.

ArtBanks
April 18, 2015, 09:16
Without the connector link and selector gear, it would be semi only. Looks like a couple of parts and it would be select fire again.

paco
April 18, 2015, 10:59
Without the connector link and selector gear, it would be semi only. Looks like a couple of parts and it would be select fire again.
Yep
It is just not present at this point. All the others are rock and roll and that ain't a problem here :D
But, i skipped this one till i know what it is...

Warbirds Custom Guns
April 18, 2015, 11:02
That rifle is made by Polytech.
I've seen 1 other like it marked the same way.


.

ArtBanks
April 18, 2015, 13:31
Thanks Tim. About time for you to come out of hibernation.

paco
April 18, 2015, 17:06
That rifle is made by Polytech.
I've seen 1 other like it marked the same way.


.
What is the value in the US?

Warbirds Custom Guns
April 18, 2015, 21:01
Thanks Tim. About time for you to come out of hibernation.
Funny you mention that.
Spring came a month early this year & caught me off guard as I had a couple of projects I wanted to do while it was real cool in March.
It got to 85 degrees here March 1rst this year.
Now I'm sweating to get the outdoor work done.




What is the value in the US?
Since only a very small hand full are here, I couldn't begin to give a value.
Maybe less than 5 I'm aware of.
One thing to consider is the heat treatment on the receiver.
If the heat treatment is correct, I would pay $10,000 $15,000 for a nice transferable select fire Chinese M-14.

Transferable M-14's are selling for $20,000-$25,000 for the few that are on the market.

Did you know that a Taiwan company is making the M-14.
I have a pic if I can find it.


.

Super B
April 18, 2015, 22:20
four??? FOUR??? NIW Dutch FALS??? I wish I were a quarter as lucky.........

paco
April 19, 2015, 02:39
four??? FOUR??? NIW Dutch FALS??? I wish I were a quarter as lucky.........
Sorry, but true. I was looking 25 years for it and beng, jack pot.
There are many Dutch FAL's in the collectors community. And they all have got there FAL's for free straight from the army. What's the catch? They are to be returned after the collector stops. The army gave'm new FAL's M1 carbine, garands and so on.


These 4+1 came from a testfacility and are the only one's i know that can escape...
Just paying the paperwork doesn't go wrong.
Just like my Belgian Army FAL's, i'll make a nice technical photoshoot with all details. Gunporn cost nothing, even in the land of the free...
Paco

paco
April 19, 2015, 02:44
Funny you mention that.
Spring came a month early this year & caught me off guard as I had a couple of projects I wanted to do while it was real cool in March.
It got to 85 degrees here March 1rst this year.
Now I'm sweating to get the outdoor work done.





Since only a very small hand full are here, I couldn't begin to give a value.
Maybe less than 5 I'm aware of.
One thing to consider is the heat treatment on the receiver.
If the heat treatment is correct, I would pay $10,000 $15,000 for a nice transferable select fire Chinese M-14.

Transferable M-14's are selling for $20,000-$25,000 for the few that are on the market.

Did you know that a Taiwan company is making the M-14.
I have a pic if I can find it.


.
It is compairing apples with coconuts since you have that importban. When did the chinese copied these M14 and what army used them? How many? ...
A full auto niw MP5 cost 2500$ and a M16 some 2000... you guys have an extra digit for the rock&roll only.:facepalm:
Thanks so far

mack7.62
April 19, 2015, 06:35
Being a Chinese copy of a M14 value would be around 1/2 to 2/3's of the value of a U.S. based on stateside semi prices.

Warbirds Custom Guns
April 19, 2015, 13:47
What is the value in the US?



It is compairing apples with coconuts since you have that importban. When did the chinese copied these M14 and what army used them? How many? ...
A full auto niw MP5 cost 2500$ and a M16 some 2000... you guys have an extra digit for the rock&roll only.:facepalm:
Thanks so far

You asked for a value in the U.S.
I gave you the info. you asked for & you give a statement about compairing apples with coconuts ? Really ?
Don't bite the hand that gives you the info. you asked for.

BTW, the Chinese made 100's if not 1000's of full auto M-14's & they have been shipped to countries all over the world.
That info. is available on the web if you look for.









The mention that Taiwan was making M14's now makes sense as bound to have a lot of parts laying around.

Here ya go......................



http://s2.postimg.org/bqto3bxjt/Taiwan_M14_markings.jpg (http://postimage.org/)





.

paco
April 19, 2015, 14:20
You asked for a value in the U.S.
I gave you the info. you asked for & you give a statement about compairing apples with coconuts ? Really ?
Don't bite the hand that gives you the info. you asked for.

BTW, the Chinese made 100's if not 1000's of full auto M-14's & they have been shipped to countries all over the world.
That info. is available on the web if you look for.











Here ya go......................



http://s2.postimg.org/bqto3bxjt/Taiwan_M14_markings.jpg (http://postimage.org/)





.

Thx
I'm gonna skip that one, might thinking about that M16A2 US Gouv property orso instead.
Those Chineses copy everything, ain't nothing holy anymore.

To be continued.

garandguy10
April 19, 2015, 14:22
What the OP posted is a Chinese select fire M14. If it is legal in your country, and the price is right, you should buy it.

skiprat
April 19, 2015, 16:03
That L85 is one of the last ones to be made (by Royal Ordnance in Nottingham) a bit late to be testing how bad they were, we already knew........ Or is it an A2!!!!!!!!!!

andresere
April 19, 2015, 19:22
You asked for a value in the U.S.
I gave you the info. you asked for & you give a statement about compairing apples with coconuts ? Really ?
Don't bite the hand that gives you the info. you asked for.

.

Did you ever think that English is a second language for some people and his words might be taken out of context?

Warbirds Custom Guns
April 19, 2015, 21:54
Did you ever think that English is a second language for some people and his words might be taken out of context?
Yep I did.
He speaks good English huh ?
No harm no foul.



.

paco
April 20, 2015, 01:05
English is not my second language. French is...
German and English are beside Dutch and Flemmish the others.
My excuses if something sounds funny.
Shit happen :D

Paco

garandguy10
April 21, 2015, 20:29
That rifle is made by Polytech.
I've seen 1 other like it marked the same way.



Many years ago I looked at one just like it in a LGS. The one I looked at had the selector lug cut from the receiver but was otherwise identical including the large font "M14" long serial number on the heel.

mack7.62
April 22, 2015, 05:09
Thx
I'm gonna skip that one, might thinking about that M16A2 US Gouv property orso instead.
Those Chineses copy everything, ain't nothing holy anymore.

To be continued.

Picture is of a Republic of China (Taiwan) Type 57 made with Springfield Armory tooling and dies the US provided. Not to be confused with the Chicom reverse engineered clone that is for sale. Supposedly the Chicom's got into the M14 business to make rifles to provide to Philippine insurgents.

Douglas Wozny
April 23, 2015, 16:13
Picture is of a Republic of China (Taiwan) Type 57 made with Springfield Armory tooling and dies the US provided. Not to be confused with the Chicom reverse engineered clone that is for sale. Supposedly the Chicom's got into the M14 business to make rifles to provide to Philippine insurgents.

The ROC used machinery purchased from Harrington and Richardson to produce their Type 57 (M14) rifle. See U.S. Rifle M14, from John Garand to the M21 by R. Blake Stevens page 317. It was NOT provide by the U.S. government, although they might have facilitated the purchase and it did NOT come from Springfield Armory.

Topbanana
April 23, 2015, 16:42
Pics of the L85 right now Paco. :o

paco
April 24, 2015, 14:11
Pics of the L85 right now Paco. :o
You will have to wait untill all paperwork has passed the chain.
I do not want to risk anything due to some stupid picture.
There are sharks out there with more money in that country then i can dream off and i need to get it out that country.
Not gonna wake up the "others".
Hang in, they will come...

JonathanW
April 24, 2015, 17:10
You will have to wait untill all paperwork has passed the chain.
I do not want to risk anything due to some stupid picture.
There are sharks out there with more money in that country then i can dream off and i need to get it out that country.
Not gonna wake up the "others".
Hang in, they will come...

If you need back up let us know ;) well group-buy plane tickets to deal with the "others":bigangel:

paco
April 24, 2015, 18:09
If you need back up let us know ;) well group-buy plane tickets to deal with the "others":bigangel:
I allready missed that boxed MAG58 under the AUG

Jarhead504
April 25, 2015, 14:30
It is said that communist China made/makes un-serialized M-14's for the Mook Rebels, the communist rebels fighting the Philippine government and other terrorist groups. "S.O.F. Magazine" had pictures of M-14's with no markings used Mook pirates. The rifle in the pics look it might have been a Polytech that someone modified. My Polytech has no markings on the heel but the serial number is roll-marked on the left side of the receiver underneath the rear sight.

I think MARSTAR of Canada still imports a Chinese M-14 clone but the new ones are reputed to be of better quality than those imported into the USA during the '80's and '90's with the alleged 'soft bolt' problem now resolved/corrected. They also offer a gas cylinder lock dove-tailed for a front sight, as made by Ron Smith Enterprises of Tempe,AZ. These would be an interesting modification since the Chinese clones have metric threads for the gas cylinder lock and you can't use Ron Smith's mod.

HTH
Jarhead504

paco
April 29, 2015, 16:05
some extra pics
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/M14-1_zpsdarpecpi.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/M14-1_zpsdarpecpi.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/M14-5_zpsvyl80wqy.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/M14-5_zpsvyl80wqy.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/M14-4_zpsw6w3etzv.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/M14-4_zpsw6w3etzv.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/M14-3_zpsxapohwnm.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/M14-3_zpsxapohwnm.jpg.html)
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/joeplf/m14/M14-2_zps9vhmqhe1.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/joeplf/media/m14/M14-2_zps9vhmqhe1.jpg.html)

garandguy10
April 29, 2015, 21:10
Chinese (PRC) select fire M14. Looks like it had a scope mount on it at one time.

paco
April 30, 2015, 04:59
Chinese (PRC) select fire M14. Looks like it had a scope mount on it at one time.

so, leave it an buy some other nice things :D

garandguy10
May 01, 2015, 09:00
so, leave it an buy some other nice things :D

If it is legal for you to own it and the price is right, buy it.

paco
May 01, 2015, 09:20
If it is legal for you to own it and the price is right, buy it.There is simply to much to buy on the full auto market here. Choises, choises, (and a wife that keeps an eye on the budget)

Different
May 16, 2015, 17:07
Chinese (PRC) select fire M14. Looks like it had a scope mount on it at one time.

This, manufactured in the 1960s at State Arsenal 356, Kunming, Yunnan, People's Republic of China, one of 100,000.

AliYahu
May 16, 2015, 21:41
http://s2.postimg.org/bqto3bxjt/Taiwan_M14_markings.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I have Garand clips with that same mark - cool!

Eli