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View Full Version : SPAS-12 for $1800. Good combat gun buy?


Lake713
March 07, 2015, 08:59
Recently found a SPAS-12 and a gun store for $1800. It has the 180° tab safety, folding stock, and hook. So far it looks to be in good shape but it hasn't been broken down and cleaned up yet as it was a recent consignment purchase for the gun store.

I really fell in love with the thing once I was able to hold it and handle it. Gun Homo. I'm not interested in any other versions of this kind of dual-purpose shotgun, so something like the Bonelli M4 is not on my radar. I just want a military grade 12 gauge shotgun that I don't have to baby and I won't be screwed if something breaks. I know about the breakages on the tab safeties causing accidental discharges and the recoil buffer wearing out that is common with these, so if everything looks to be in good fighting order, do you guys recommend this as a solid purchase? I'm not looking for something to hang in a museum as a showpiece nor my looking for something that has to be cleaned, maintained and babied after every shoot. I'm looking for a good war gun.

Thoughts? Opinions? RAnting raging raves?

SAFN49
March 07, 2015, 09:41
Run away. Run far away.

Cool looking shotgun for the movies. ZERO practical use. Parts are hard to find.

J. Armstrong
March 07, 2015, 09:46
Firstly, I have no direct experience with the SPAS, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

That's a lot of cash for a weapon that I always viewed as overly complicated - I seem to recall thinking it was pretty heavy for a shotty as well. Not sure what the spares availability is or how easy it is to maintain or repair in the field but I'm guessing it's no 870 or Mossy.

While I am of the school of thought that there are scenarios where a shotgun is the weapon of choice, its application is pretty narrow and specialized and I personally would be hard pressed to spend $1800 to cover those apps. ( although I do confess some years ago I was seduced by a Benelli M1S90 :) ). There are just too many well proven combat shotguns at 1/3 to 1/4 the price.

That said, If you really have bonded with the critter and have the budget, all bets are off :biggrin: We all have some floozies in the safe that are there just because they tickle our 'nads :beer:

Beryl
March 07, 2015, 09:49
What's wrong with an 870 for $300? Parts are everywhere, you can get boucoup accessories for them, and they are very reliable. With practice, you can shoot one about as fast as a semi-auto. Keep It Simple.

gunplumber
March 07, 2015, 09:54
My buddy's S.P.A.S. saved us from being robbed, or worse, late at night in Phoenix City Alabama - this was 1986. But any firearm would have.

I shot it a lot back in the day. I think it's a clunky piece of shit.

The Benelli M3 does everything the S.P.A.S. did, and is much more simple. And I'm not particularly impressed with it either.

If you think you need a semiauto, the recoil operated ones are brutal to shoot. But if you've got to have one, the Benelli M1 is decent. Not magical, but decent.

The gas operated ones are pleasant to shoot. I prefer the 1100 Remington, but it is maintenance heavy compared to a pump.

If you don't need it semiauto, then I prefer the Remington over the Moss 590. But I acknowledge the 590 is excellent.

And if you have some weird idea that your gun needs to be both, then the M3 is better than S.P.A.S.

I submit, there is no need for a "combat" shotgun. You'd do much better with a carbine in 5.56, 5.45, or 7.62x39. Heck, even a M1 Carbine would be better than a shotgun. Except if you're hunting little birdies.

The shotgun is simply obsolete in a combat role, and like the bayonet, the military just can't give it up.

Andy the Aussie
March 07, 2015, 16:02
I just want a military grade 12 gauge shotgun that I don't have to baby and I won't be screwed if something breaks. ... then the SPAS is NOT the shotgun for you. There are actually few "military grade" shotguns around, even ones used by armed forces have often been not really suitable. The SPAS was NEVER even close. It is a novelty at best these days, a bit fun perhaps, but a novelty.

W.E.G.
March 07, 2015, 17:07
I've already got a shotgun.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/ithaca37easyridershotgun.jpg

Bubacus
March 07, 2015, 17:34
I have a SPAS 12 that I bought around 1994 for $500. It is a folder with a factory hook. It has the old style safety and I had to replace the handgaurd (which the previous owner dented). They are a very fun gun indeed. But fun does not mean SHTF duty gun.

Parts are very difficult to find, it has an aluminum reciever that is known to crack if your buffer is worn out as well. I've replaced my factory buffer with a very nice aftermarket unit. There are also reproduction hooks for the gun. The hook's purpose is to fire the gun one handed (yes it actually works). It is a great conversation piece and if you have nostalgia for the 80's era guns, it is the crown jewel of the collection.

I would highly recomend Vepr-12 for social work or Benelli if you don't like magazine fed shotguns.

Invictus77
March 07, 2015, 17:45
A Remington 870 Wingmaster with a 28" mod barrel and a 20" slug barrel will accomplish 90%+ of any task you will ask from a shotgun. IMHO.

mpnv
March 07, 2015, 17:50
I've already got a shotgun.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/ithaca37easyridershotgun.jpg

They know......
78977
:D

tdb59
March 07, 2015, 17:55
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fkLkPjVsQpQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lake713
March 08, 2015, 10:17
Wow, I'm kind of surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction but very appreciative to everyone for taking the time to steer me clear. Thank you, all!

Bubacus
March 11, 2015, 06:28
I forgot to mention, that I really love firing the SPAS once in a while, but the VEPR-12 with a 10 shot magazine brought a bigger smile to my face.

For the money you are talking about you could go with one for $800 Shipped:

https://www.classicfirearms.com/vepr12gashotgun-1

or

The Mosberg 930:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Mossberg-trade-SPX-Special-Purpose-Tactical-Semiautomatic-Shotgun/1367699.uts

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/P6080009-900x675.jpg

paulb2112
March 11, 2015, 07:46
Had one back when they came out. ''Terminator'' days.
Was cool looking for sure but very heavy and as mentioned not reliable.
Hey, if you like it enough and can afford to have it as a conversation piece go for it.
I see them for sale at high prices but dont know if they are actually selling.
Hell, my ex-wife was great looking too but ...........

SAFN49
March 13, 2015, 19:46
The cool thing was the stock hook. I would hang it in the closet between clothes on hangers.
I ended up slinging on my back and selling it at Knob Creek back in the mid 90's. I think I got around $1200 for it back then.

wanneroo
March 14, 2015, 21:55
I remember holding one in a gun store in Alabama back around 1989 when I was in high school. I used to lug "Janes Infantry Weapons" around school for instance, so I knew exactly what it was as soon as I saw it. Definitely wanted one. It looked cool.

Years later I found out about all the dramas and issues with this gun and it was kinda like finding out my favorite pin up girl from that era, Samantha Fox, was a lesbian(turns out she is). Things are not always what they seem.

AliYahu
March 15, 2015, 00:12
You could buy an A-5 and have it fully customized out, and have two more done just like it, for less money!

Eli

Barbcue
May 29, 2015, 13:33
For $999 you can get a Vepr -12 with fixed folder or for $799 a "non folding" folder type (without the hinge to fold)..Atlantic Firearms has both

i have 2 of the fixed folders they are reliable as all get out once broken in CSSPEC make really nice all steel mags for them which i like alot more than the issue mags.

if you want a combat style shotgun i advise one of these over anything else including the cheaper built Saiga 12's the V-12's are really well built. but a little bulky like the spaz 12 (but a much better gun)

if you want light and slender like a pump but in semi auto i would look for a Beretta 1201 -FP the one i picked up at the gun shop was light, pointed nicely and seemed well built..i really liked the way it felt and its weight..

(my two bits)

andresere
May 29, 2015, 17:20
Years later I found out about all the dramas and issues with this gun and it was kinda like finding out my favorite pin up girl from that era, Samantha Fox, was a lesbian(turns out she is). Things are not always what they seem.

I am so all right with that it makes me feel funny.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll166/andresere/259_zpsbztb6prf.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/andresere/media/259_zpsbztb6prf.jpg.html)

MajHenryWest
May 29, 2015, 18:27
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fkLkPjVsQpQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Steve McQueen using the relatively unknown yet excellent High Standard Riot Gun. I think the one he is using in this clip from "The Getaway" is a Flite King K-1200 Standard Riot Gun (catalog # 8113).

The gun used in the movie was later auctioned off for several thousand dollars.

gates
May 30, 2015, 01:54
"clunky piece of shit" is spot on - I opted for a B M-4 and a M-930 SPX - two is one, one is none:wink:

gates
May 30, 2015, 02:18
And they BOTH drop an inch+ at 25yds with slugs... know your weapon systems and their limitations before you have to use them for real...

USMCGrunt
May 30, 2015, 13:59
Sorry to say but the SPAS is like the exact opposite of what you're after. The SPAS-12 isn't so much of a "good war gun" as it is a good movie prop. You already are aware of the parts breakage issue and the problems of getting spare parts so I'll avoid that here. They do have an intimidating military style to them with a high "chicks dig it" factor going for it but that's where things end. In reality, they are heavy, bulky, awkward and overly complex. NOT something you want in a fighting shotgun.
The heavy and bulky part of my statement speaks for itself when you compare it against other designs. The awkward part comes in when you have to reload it. You need to depress the carrier latch button in order to load the magazine tube and the easiest way to do that is to flip it upside down held at waist level with your left hand depressing the button while the right hand stuffs in shells. With most other designs, (Benellis and most every pump shotgun designs) you can keep the butt in your shoulder, weapon leveled downrange at the threat and still reload with your weak hand.
I would also say the overly complex part comes in with the problems of do I use the cross bolt safety or the quick employment safety? Is it in pump or auto? Now which was the magazine cutoff button and which is the carrier latch button again? Now how do I unlock the bolt without dropping the hammer? Oh yeah, use the quick action safety but wait, why is that the safety and not the bolt unlock button and if I unlock the bolt to say select slugs, did I remember to turn the safety back off again before I can fire it? Shotguns are best employed at shorter ranges and at shorter ranges, things happen pretty damn fast. Having to stop and think about what does what and did I push the right button or what mode I'm in is NOT something you want to have to stop to think about.
If you want a "go to war" shotgun, I would suggest looking at a pump like a Mossberg 590 or Remington 870. Both have extensive usage by the military and have stood the test of time. Also, an automatic like the Benelli M4 also has a US military history behind it and has fared quite well for the Marines. If you must have a pump/auto selectable shotgun, go with the Benelli M3.

Story
June 01, 2015, 10:30
I've already got a shotgun.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/shotguns/ithaca37easyridershotgun.jpg

Just don't bring a knife.

https://501mustseemoviesproject.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/untouchablesconnery.jpg

AM1958
June 04, 2015, 04:48
Back in the late 70's/early 80's the SAS selected the Remington Wingmaster over the SPAS 12...

I'd suggest that says it all...

gunplumber
June 04, 2015, 07:39
Back in the late 70's/early 80's the SAS selected the Remington Wingmaster over the SPAS 12...

I'd suggest that says it all...

Yeah, it would say they selected "high polish blue", as Wingmaster is a grade, not a model.

Were they 870 Wingmasters or 1100 Wingmasters?

I wonder what they used them for that they couldn't accomplish with their G3Ks.

AM1958
June 04, 2015, 07:46
I believe they were 870's but it was a long, long time ago...

Lake713
July 07, 2015, 22:46
Thanks for the input everyone.

My SPAS-12 currently hangs from the headboard of my bed as I type. I named him Behemoth. It has some new absorbers (receiver and stock) and has been a blast. Slugs and buckshot, PDX loads, and even (most) birdshot cycle the semi-auto action. The pump mode is easy and the weight makes recoil not an issue (70+ rounds its first outing...all in probably half an hour tops).

The reloading method for me, as a right-handed shooter, is to flip the gun over and hold it upside down with my strong hand (right hand). While my thumb depresses the lift gate release button, my left hand loads shells. I don't have big hands so the only time this gets to be a bit of a stretch is when the stock is folded. I concede that being able to reload while pointing downrange is probably not possible (or at least not easy...and certainly not yet tested by myself), but I've had a helluva lot of fun with it thus far.

Unfortunately mine has the original tab safety that is ironically defective. But I ignore it entirely and just use the quick action safety. I have not yet experienced any issues with this method.

While I regret selling my Mossberg 590 Mariner and wish to own another, my SPAS-12 has proven to be a joy and a blast and has not been overly complicated. I know of a Navy Corpsman who used his during Fallujah in the mid 2000s and if it was good enough for him during wartime over there (where he apparently used it..."often") then it's good enough for me. Am I that level of expertise? Certainly not. But training is a good thing and I look forward to gaining more of it in time.

While it's not the most practical or lightweight, I DO love this thing and know, should I ever want to sell it, I could get my money back on it. Plus, there are only 1850 in the US and, by now, I wonder how many of those are still operational/intact. I enjoy training with the gun. I like the feel of it. I like the novelty of it. And I don't see its value depreciating. And with a couple SPAS-12 websites making parts for them, I'm confident in parts availability in the future.

I only wish someone would start making them again. With everything else that's out there, I'm sure there's a market for it.

GOVT1911
July 08, 2015, 06:42
Hey, it's your gun and you enjoy it, so that goes in the WIN column.

You do have me curious about your Corpsman friend that used one during Fallujah. Generally speaking, Personally Owned Weapons are strictly forbidden on deployments (not to say that some haven't been used) by "regular" type US Mil. It'd be cool to see a pic of someone carrying/using a SPAS 12 downrange, just because.

Lake713
July 08, 2015, 21:03
I wish I could say he was my friend. I have never met him. I know of him via my best friend who was a sniper in the Marines during the mid 2000s and was in Fallujah for a few months before getting injured. He told me his Corpsman was this monstrous dude who toted one around. That's what initially interested me in the gun; if it was good enough for that guy in those conditions, it's good enough for me.

As far as a personal weapon, I'm told it's a Class C license which allows you to transfer one personal weapon while on duty. Apparently there was also a member of the 82nd Airborne which my friend ran into who chose a Ruger Mini-14 over a tent on missions. It's a whole world to me that I can't really argue against, not being able to serve due to a permanent medical DQ. And I'm naturally inclined to agree with my friend.

Nuttz
July 09, 2015, 07:05
:facepalm:...Apparently there was also a member of the 82nd Airborne which my friend ran into who chose a Ruger Mini-14 over a tent on missions...

http://www.myateamvan.com/images/with_guns.jpg

Lake713
July 09, 2015, 14:18
Who doesn't love it when a plan comes together? ;)

I wonder how well the Mini-14 would've held up though. Seems that Garand style design lends itself to a lot of fine grit interference, lubed or not. Same goes for the M1A, though I guess Army DMs have been using it over there, so I don't know what to think there.

Nuttz
July 09, 2015, 14:41
Sorry to point this out, but it is doubtful that either of these tales your best friend is telling you is anything more than just that, tales. Were you having a beer or two down at the local VFW? Never heard of any such "Class C" license authorizing any Service Member to carry a personal weapon in either of the gulf wars.

leek
July 09, 2015, 22:59
Ok, quick quiz. Which president banned the SPAS 12 , LAW- 12, and Street Sweeper via Executive order? tick, tick, tick ,tick.
BTW, it caused the demise of Franchi.

Lake713
July 10, 2015, 01:07
Sorry to point this out, but it is doubtful that either of these tales your best friend is telling you is anything more than just that, tales. Were you having a beer or two down at the local VFW? Never heard of any such "Class C" license authorizing any Service Member to carry a personal weapon in either of the gulf wars.

That is, admittedly, a lurking fear for me. I choose to believe him because

A) He kept his service a secret from me for ten years (it occurred while we were both in college and living in different states, so at the time we would only see each other every year or two. I'm sure most of you know what that phase of life is like).

B) It explains much in the way of his quirks, skills and style.

And C) I have no actionable evidence that disproves it.

I don't blame others for not believing it because I have often been skeptical myself. But I choose to believe him based on my extensive time with him over the years. But at this point in my life, very little would surprise me.

Lake713
July 10, 2015, 01:09
Ok, quick quiz. Which president banned the SPAS 12 , LAW- 12, and Street Sweeper via Executive order? tick, tick, tick ,tick.
BTW, it caused the demise of Franchi.

I'm going to guess Reagan, Clinton or Bush? Every President is a rights-robbing sack of monkey cum in their own special way...some more inventive/effective than others.

Speaking of Executive Orders, does anyone know if Legion Arsenal SGLs have been banned from importation? I have an SGL-21 that I like to shoot and often toy with trading/selling but probably won't if it's going to be another firearm like the SPAS-12, how there are only a set number of them in the States due to an importation ban.

Nuttz
July 10, 2015, 12:15
That is, admittedly, a lurking fear for me...I don't blame others for not believing it because I have often been skeptical myself. But I choose to believe him based on my extensive time with him over the years. But at this point in my life, very little would surprise me...
Sorry for possibly reinforcing the fear about your buddy. Hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. You sound prepared.

…In any event enjoy your Tank of a Trunk Monkey and put up some pictures or video of that beast putting holes in stuff!!!

GOVT1911
July 10, 2015, 13:15
As far as a personal weapon, I'm told it's a Class C license which allows you to transfer one personal weapon while on duty. Apparently there was also a member of the 82nd Airborne which my friend ran into who chose a Ruger Mini-14 over a tent on missions. It's a whole world to me that I can't really argue against, not being able to serve due to a permanent medical DQ. And I'm naturally inclined to agree with my friend.\

Your friend is mistaken about getting a "license" to carry a POW (Personally Owned Weapon) while on duty.

With the extremely rare exception (NOT authorized, but has been overlooked) of a SFOD-D guy carrying whatever he wants on a mission, and General Officers authorized to carry a Personally owned handgun (off topic, but they're allowed to actually mail handguns using USPS, but that's a whole nother topic), NOBODY is allowed to carry a POW downrange or even while training Stateside.

There have been many instances of Troops picking up and using captured/confiscated weapons "In Theater", (I carried a sweet suppressed Stirling around in my truck for awhile in Baghdad in 04), even that practice is frowned upon and can result in charges against the individual. I've seen a couple people actually get charged, and have seen MANY more get their ass chewed and given Nonjudicial punishment under ART 15 UCMJ. I personally was just told to "get rid of that damn SMG in your truck, or I'll hammer you."

Just my .02 and worth exactly what you've paid for it.

On the other hand, if you or anyone else can provide links to regs or policies that authorize a Service Member to carry or even possess a POW while on duty, I'd be very interested to see it so I can become further educated on the subject.

Lake713
July 10, 2015, 16:42
Sorry for possibly reinforcing the fear about your buddy. Hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. You sound prepared.

…In any event enjoy your Tank of a Trunk Monkey and put up some pictures or video of that beast putting holes in stuff!!!

I do have a video on Facebook but I guess I should upload it to YouTube.

Also, I'd never heard of "trunk monkey" before and subsequently laughed my ass off. Learn something new every day. Thanks, DzNutz! You rock, dude!

Lake713
July 10, 2015, 16:46
\

Your friend is mistaken about getting a "license" to carry a POW (Personally Owned Weapon) while on duty.

With the extremely rare exception (NOT authorized, but has been overlooked) of a SFOD-D guy carrying whatever he wants on a mission, and General Officers authorized to carry a Personally owned handgun (off topic, but they're allowed to actually mail handguns using USPS, but that's a whole nother topic), NOBODY is allowed to carry a POW downrange or even while training Stateside.

There have been many instances of Troops picking up and using captured/confiscated weapons "In Theater", (I carried a sweet suppressed Stirling around in my truck for awhile in Baghdad in 04), even that practice is frowned upon and can result in charges against the individual. I've seen a couple people actually get charged, and have seen MANY more get their ass chewed and given Nonjudicial punishment under ART 15 UCMJ. I personally was just told to "get rid of that damn SMG in your truck, or I'll hammer you."

Just my .02 and worth exactly what you've paid for it.

On the other hand, if you or anyone else can provide links to regs or policies that authorize a Service Member to carry or even possess a POW while on duty, I'd be very interested to see it so I can become further educated on the subject.

It was while he was in Fallujah back in the mid 2000's. I don't remember if it was 2004 or a little later. He just started opening up to me 1.5 years ago about his experiences over there, at first in tears, so I am just doing my part to listen. Judgment comes later, I suppose. But I don't blame you for not believing it.

I did look up this license and could not find anything but perhaps I am mistaken in what it was called. Neither my friend's corpsman or the paratrooper he met carried their non-issue weapons stateside; this was all "in theater". Who knows if that makes a difference or not but I could see people getting away with it more over there. But again, it may just be called something else.

Nuttz
July 10, 2015, 16:56
...I'd never heard of "trunk monkey"...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JV-XEiUOjYE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Andy the Aussie
July 10, 2015, 17:03
I would suggest as others have that your friend is gilding the lilly a little, it may be as a result of his service or from somewhere else, you don't need to judge him for it, he may need the outlet with his friend. The mind, after significant events can also play tricks and not everyone is a firearm expert, a Benelli or M590 (that was issued) gets called a SPAS and the "Mini14" was perhaps an M14. Not a huge leap either way if you see my logic.

I would also suggest that GOVT1911 above will be one of the better authorities on the subject of the legalities and process in the ME around the concerned periods.

Lake713
July 10, 2015, 19:30
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JV-XEiUOjYE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This made my day. Monkeys have the strength of 6 grown men and therefore scare the shit out of me but this was hilarious. Thank you!

Lake713
July 10, 2015, 19:33
I would suggest as others have that your friend is gilding the lilly a little, it may be as a result of his service or from somewhere else, you don't need to judge him for it, he may need the outlet with his friend. The mind, after significant events can also play tricks and not everyone is a firearm expert, a Benelli or M590 (that was issued) gets called a SPAS and the "Mini14" was perhaps an M14. Not a huge leap either way if you see my logic.

I would also suggest that GOVT1911 above will be one of the better authorities on the subject of the legalities and process in the ME around the concerned periods.

I just love this comment for the simple fact that you used the term "gilding the lily". Haven't heard anyone else use that adage in ages.

And yeah, I've often had my moments of suspicion when it comes to certain recollections of events and stories (a near death accident when you're a teenager and a traumatizing divorce ten years later can do that to a human brain) but never having the ability to serve in the military, I have nothing to compare it to so I guardedly believe. But I appreciate all opinions to the contrary and enjoy hearing about all things military related, even red tape topics.

GOVT1911
July 12, 2015, 23:28
No worries, memories fade and get jumbled up. I've seen more than a few vets "spice up" their stories trying to impress others. It doesn't make sense to me, if you busted your butt and did your JOB to the Best of your abilities, you're a Rock Star to me. Super Secret Squirrels need mechanics to keep them mobile, cooks to fill their bellies and supply monkeys to get them gear and ammo. NOBODY fights on their own.
I spent a bit of time in and around Fallujah during that time, as well as playing in other exciting places. (Over 82 months total deployed) and the Files ALWAYS took INCREDIBLE care of me and my guys. From Aussie 4x4 magazines and vids, to some God Aweful Vegamite ;) to licky-chewys and even weapons parts, I was WELL cared for by my Family here. ;) Hell, I even got into SHOT Show with a Vendor's Pass from a Friendly Filer while on R&R in 06! I never saw ANY personally owned weapons in theater being carried on missions (it COULD have happened, though). Well, one exception to that last statement was when I had to take a Glock 22 from a famous Country Artist that came over on a USO tour, but that was literally for his own good. If I hadn't have taken it from him (over his objection), he would have gotten hemmed up for a felony and hour later when US Customs searched him. Long story. Lol

Andy the Aussie
July 13, 2015, 01:48
to some God Aweful Vegamite ;) ... axle grease, yep that's the stuff... ;) Better you than me ;) :beer:

Lake713
July 13, 2015, 02:03
... axle grease, yep that's the stuff... ;) Better you than me ;) :beer:

LMAO beautiful. Is it weird that I actually kind of like vegemite? I worked with a guy who was Australian Special Forces (okay, now I'm sounding ridiculous to even myself). He was older but had photos to prove it. He gave me some Vegemite and I would sometimes put it on toast with butter. Nothing fancy but it woke me up!

Anyway, military friends and their stories aside, I agree that anyone who goes overseas is pretty damned brave in my book, even if all they did was stir 50 gallon drum cauldrons of burning shit. I wanted to be in the military but a permanent medical disqualifier (colon resection surgery when I was 2 yrs old) killed it for the Marines and that took the wind out of my sales. Still trying to get in as a corpsman with the Navy but the military life and its people (especially your sense of humor) has always enamored me.

Also, here's a link to me shooting the SPAS-12. I think I called it "Behemoth's Virgin Run":https://www.facebook.com/lake713/videos/10206879018876561/?l=5082548393954467068
https://www.facebook.com/lake713/videos/10206879018876561/?l=5082548393954467068

EDT: Not sure if that link will work but if not I can try and upload it to YouTube or something.

cowbilly
July 13, 2015, 07:22
All we needed was the CDR's permission on a letterhead and your firearm's serial number was entered into the inventory for the weapons on a separate form. So you could draw it from the arms room when you wanted it but they wanted you to turn in it whenever you where done with it. I have a Fulton Armory Peerless M1A I was going to bring but changed my mind. It was not practical, my job did not require it and it would have been one more thing to keep up with, so I it did not go. Mainly Officers and senior NCOs could request it and usually it was approved, no license required.

As far as the SPAS goes, it is a heavy, bulky, overpriced collectors item. It can be hard to find spare parts for it. It was not adopted by any military or major PD that I know of but it is high on the cool factor. That being said, there are better combat shotguns out there for much less.

It is your money and if that is what you want, have at it and enjoy, you can find one for less though.

Lake713
July 13, 2015, 07:33
All we needed was the CDR's permission on a letterhead and your firearm's serial number was entered into the inventory for the weapons on a separate form. So you could draw it from the arms room when you wanted it but they wanted you to turn in it whenever you where done with it. I have a Fulton Armory Peerless M1A I was going to bring but changed my mind. It was not practical, my job did not require it and it would have been one more thing to keep up with, so I it did not go. Mainly Officers and senior NCOs could request it and usually it was approved, no license required.

Thank you for your input.

Considering the job my buddy had over there, I would not be surprised if accommodations were made. Again, I have only his word (which I choose to take because I honor the man) and zero personal experience, but there certainly seems to be some wiggle room on the subject itself. He wasn't in long enough to attain rank but he was pretty instrumental in operations for his unit. I think there's a bit of "fog of war" that clouds all memory in traumatic events like that though; even in my civilian life, the really tough times have some sketchy spots in my memory...while others are branded into the flesh of my brain and will never scrub out. Go figure. So I can only imagine what it's like for guys who experience war.

biohawk1
July 13, 2015, 22:15
$1800 woooo I bought mine last year brand new in box, unfiired for $1000. Has the folding stock with the hook and the shitty lever style safety.
While I want to fire this thing I cant get past the fact that its BNIB. Maybe ill find a used one cheap and buy that to have as a range toy. For now mine will be a safe queen.

Lake713
July 13, 2015, 22:29
$1800 woooo I bought mine last year brand new in box, unfiired for $1000. Has the folding stock with the hook and the shitty lever style safety.
While I want to fire this thing I cant get past the fact that its BNIB. Maybe ill find a used one cheap and buy that to have as a range toy. For now mine will be a safe queen.

......(wait for it)...::BIG breath::...AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nuttz
July 14, 2015, 06:42
All we needed was the CDR's permission on a letterhead and your firearm's serial number was entered into the inventory for the weapons on a separate form. So you could draw it from the arms room when you wanted it but they wanted you to turn in it whenever you where done with it. I have a Fulton Armory Peerless M1A I was going to bring but changed my mind. It was not practical, my job did not require it and it would have been one more thing to keep up with, so I it did not go. Mainly Officers and senior NCOs could request it and usually it was approved, no license required...
Are you referring to storing your personal weapons in the armory on a military base here stateside or deploying overseas, in the past 10 or so years, with a personal weapon? The first mentioned here is no problem and if you live in the barracks and in some base housing it is required. The second however is not as simple as you have explained or even realistic. There are a metric sh!t-ton of international and UCMJ laws that are play in the situation you are referring explaining, not to mention the liability issues for the government allowing the use of a potentially “non-milspec” or approved weapon to be used by a service member in and around other service members.

cowbilly
July 14, 2015, 11:58
Yes, it is easy in garrison if you have a good CDR. As far as over the pond, maybe with CABs or INF there are issues but in my unit (which is very small) it was CDRs discretion and a few pieces of paper. Once it was logged in armory inventory it was not an issue, now carrying one on your person back and forth would be and was not allowed, but locked in the armory for trasport no issue. Been in 20 years active and reserve Army, I know several that carried personal sidearms.

We actually had several non US Mil issued weapons in inventory.

GOVT1911
July 14, 2015, 14:23
Are you referring to storing your personal weapons in the armory on a military base here stateside or deploying overseas, in the past 10 or so years, with a personal weapon? The first mentioned here is no problem and if you live in the barracks and in some base housing it is required. The second however is not as simple as you have explained or even realistic. There are a metric sh!t-ton of international and UCMJ laws that are play in the situation you are referring explaining, not to mention the liability issues for the government allowing the use of a potentially “non-milspec” or approved weapon to be used by a service member in and around other service members.

Yup

GOVT1911
July 14, 2015, 14:28
Yes, it is easy in garrison if you have a good CDR. As far as over the pond, maybe with CABs or INF there are issues but in my unit (which is very small) it was CDRs discretion and a few pieces of paper. Once it was logged in armory inventory it was not an issue, now carrying one on your person back and forth would be and was not allowed, but locked in the armory for trasport no issue. Been in 20 years active and reserve Army, I know several that carried personal sidearms.

We actually had several non US Mil issued weapons in inventory.

That's strange. I'm not saying it's not true, but your Commander is violating about 4 different Articles of the UCMJ by allowing it. POWs are strictly forbidden while deployed. I've actually seen a Soldier get Court Marshaled for possessing a POW downrange.

The method you mention IS generally allowed on base in the States and even overseas in some locations like Germany (Much tighter restrictions in the last 10 yrs though).

Nuttz
July 14, 2015, 14:37
Yes, it is easy in garrison if you have a good CDR. As far as over the pond, maybe with CABs or INF there are issues but in my unit (which is very small) it was CDRs discretion and a few pieces of paper. Once it was logged in armory inventory it was not an issue, now carrying one on your person back and forth would be and was not allowed, but locked in the armory for trasport no issue. Been in 20 years active and reserve Army, I know several that carried personal sidearms.
I would say this is and was a circumvention of several rules and laws that are in place for various reasons. I understand what you are saying, but if one of these personally owned weapons was ever used in combat by or caused harm to a US service member, the commander that authorized such use would find him/herself in a world of sh!t. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying it is/was wrong.

We actually had several non US Mil issued weapons in inventory.
This is why I said "potentially “non-milspec” or approved weapon". I should have said "use of non-approved" but I think the point was clear regardless of my mis-spelling.

I get that many small "very unique" units/organizations had the ability to get away with some under-the-cuff or shady-behind-the-scenes stuff/things, but a standard USN Corpsman with a USMC Scout Sniper BN, STA Platoon, or even with snake eating MARSOC cats, did not get authorization to carry their personal weapons in theatre. Like it was mentioned earlier, maybe a seizure from a raid or something, but again this was highly frowned upon in every AOR in Iraq from Al Anbar all the way down to Basrah (and yes, was all over that sh!thole). Where there is a slim possibility, I still am inclined to lean to the side of either BullSh!t or mis-identification of the weapons carried in the OPs friend's observations (this was also mentioned earlier).

cowbilly
July 14, 2015, 15:18
Legalisms can be funny (or deadly) in a combat zone and Article 15s can be a dime a dozen depending on the unit.

Some units are laid back high speed, some are wound tight and regular speed, some just suck. I'm going to mark it as METT-TC dependent.

flopshot
July 14, 2015, 20:08
Remington 11-87 with a mag extension. or, i could sell you this gem for one large.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b142/jgaito/10b_zps2lfjb2rk.jpeg

low brass need not apply.

Nuttz
July 15, 2015, 06:45
Legalisms can be funny (or deadly) in a combat zone and Article 15s can be a dime a dozen depending on the unit.

Some units are laid back high speed, some are wound tight and regular speed, some just suck. I'm going to mark it as METT-TC dependent.http://www.outofregs.com/postImages/1360803017.jpg

:whistling:

Lake713
July 15, 2015, 22:03
http://www.outofregs.com/postImages/1360803017.jpg

:whistling:

That's ******* hilarious.

PACKIN' PLASTIC
July 24, 2015, 22:01
Italian rubbish.

Yes they are cool as heck but easily one of the worst "combat guns" in history. They are clumsy, complicated and completely unnatural to operate, semi function is marginal at best, pump action is sticky/draggy, stock is flimsy and uncomfortable (mine was hook folder)

Worst of all they are poorly made and certain parts (internal buffer-custom order $$$), sling mount (I couldn't even find a new stock piece) etc just fall apart with age and light use.

If you have buckets of money to spend on cool toys and "conversation pieces" by all means buy one and hang it on the wall but I would never consider using one as a for any practical purpose. Pretty much any functional US made double, pump or auto is a better shotgun for hunting or defensive use.

Personally I like the Remington 870 wingmaster and the model 11 auto which are not expensive or "sexy" shotguns but they more than make up for it in ergonomics and reliability. Besides there is something to be said for a gun that will run for 50+ years without any new parts.

nearmisses
August 31, 2015, 13:32
I have to agree with Packin' Plastics comments above. I worked for Stoeger in the early 70's and Franchi's are crap! Alloy receivers are junk on a recoil operated shotgun and more busted ones all over the shop than you could imagine. We tested their new 530 Gas gun at the time and had the barrels blow off and stick in the target barriers due to faulty solder job tpo the gas sleeve. We fired 20 shotguns and all but one failed against one Rem 1100 which NEVER failed to feed or fire anything that fit in it 2000+ times! Even mixes! Sad company, their Double barrel O/U sucked just as bad. Selectors never worked right, didn't fire second barrel you name it. Franchi is how you spell suck in Italian.

Mindfield
August 31, 2015, 13:40
For the cool collecting factor, sure. For serious use benelli m1/2s90

randy762ak
September 01, 2015, 09:13
I have a SPAS =12 New in box and a LAW 12 NIB .
I bought a used spas 12 for $900.00 to shoot /resell//save for someday something!

I took it to the range put 1 Hi brass slug in and took careful aim over the bench and FIRED-- My eyes rolled in my head my shoulder hurt and I put it back in the truck and got something out that kicked less my M44 Russian .

Id gladly sell It to fund my shop im building !:wink:

djfin
September 01, 2015, 16:41
Yes, it is easy in garrison if you have a good CDR. As far as over the pond, maybe with CABs or INF there are issues but in my unit (which is very small) it was CDRs discretion and a few pieces of paper. Once it was logged in armory inventory it was not an issue, now carrying one on your person back and forth would be and was not allowed, but locked in the armory for trasport no issue. Been in 20 years active and reserve Army, I know several that carried personal sidearms.

We actually had several non US Mil issued weapons in inventory.

Can you provide unit names/numbers, form name/numbers and exact dates and bases involved in your claim? Your statements are very strange in that what you claim is forbidden by the UCMJ. It was not allowed when I was in during the seventies and according to a very good friend of mines daughter who is currently a army lawyer it would land you in a world of shit. So please provide a little more info so that facts can be checked

mrfixinthangs
September 12, 2015, 00:14
When I bought one in the 80's i read an article that it was not designed for military use but rather police escorts of Italian (in Italy) mobsters it was meant to be intimidating and has more than one safety so as to help prevent it from being used on the officer should he have it taken from him.

pre1989
September 13, 2015, 16:58
I have looked at getting one a lot seen them for 1k or so .. I have past as well it would be a range toy .. Overly part filled .. No real support for it anymore and heavy and bulky talked to people who owned them and they hatted them

Look just get a M1 super 90 .. Fires as fast as heck fire and it is a movie cool combat gun

Plus you can get a true pre ban HK import ( org 7+1+1 loading ) for under 1k if you look ...

.30-06
September 15, 2015, 21:41
The shotgun is simply obsolete in a combat role, and like the bayonet, the military just can't give it up.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

GOVT1911
September 18, 2015, 16:03
The shotgun is simply obsolete in a combat role, and like the bayonet, the military just can't give it up.


I disagree to a point. The shotgun, IN MY OPINION, still fills an important role in combat, and more so in daily Military Operations. The bayonet? Yeah, I'll give you that. LOL

ColeKira
September 18, 2015, 17:29
I had 2 of them, bulky, heavy and not nearly as reliable as an 870!

Lake713
February 07, 2016, 00:18
After nearly a year with my SPAS-12, I can positively affirm you are almost all entirely wrong. "Behemoth" as I have named her, has been 100% RELIABLE with full power loads, cycles easily and quickly in pump mode with all loads, is NOT HEAVY ON RECOIL, is NOT DIFFICULT to understand or operate, is every bit as DURABLE and MANAGEABLE as my Mossberg 590 Mariner, and thanks to a handful of websites the SPAS-12 now has more domestically made new parts available for very fair prices.

Benellis are unreliable sacks of shit and those of you who like them should be ashamed of yourselves.

Also, the recoil buffer and stock shock absorbers are easily replaced and affordable.

Fin.

SAFN49
February 07, 2016, 00:33
and how is your $1000, weighs a ton, boat anchor any better than a $450 11-87?

Oh, it's tacicool.

J. Armstrong
February 07, 2016, 08:31
Benellis are unreliable sacks of shit and those of you who like them should be ashamed of yourselves.


You've obviously never met an M1S90. Mine, at least, has been dead nuts reliable with any reasonable load, and while it has more perceived recoil than a gas gun, is not at all bad inthat department. WAAAAY better than the one SPAS I shot !!!!

Sounds like you got one of the few good SPAS's - congrats and enjoy, but I'm afraid you are one of the few :beer: Based upon the overwhelming evidence, I would personally be unwilling to bet on your continued good fortune, but I hope i'm wrong :)