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shep854
March 03, 2015, 12:52
I just picked up a WASR, NIB, and I like the idea of the bolt hold-open notch on the safety lever. Would simply filing a notch on the safety cause any problems? I don't see how, but I want to make sure.

gunplumber
March 03, 2015, 14:15
It doesn't cause any problems, but it's a pretty useless endeavor. It accomplishes nothing of value.

shep854
March 03, 2015, 15:01
Thanks for the fast reply; I just like being able to hold the action open, to show clear and safe.

gunplumber
March 03, 2015, 15:35
Thanks for the fast reply; I just like being able to hold the action open, to show clear and safe.

I suppose if that's a requirement of the range - mine accepts a flag or cartridge case.

Just pull the bolt carrier back try to engage the safety, and cut a "U" where it aligns with the charging handle.

shep854
March 03, 2015, 15:52
That's what I had in mind, but I've screwed up enough stuff with good ideas that weren't that I am willing to ask. :) I've seen notched safeties elsewhere, and it looks like a good idea--to me, anyway.
I've done flags and cases too; I just pulled up to the range and I'm going to have to stuff a napkin into the action to show safe.

DYNOMIKE
March 03, 2015, 15:55
While some have done this mod and some AK's have the hold open function a Fired Case or a flag is what I like best as well...
No mod and a quick visual will show the firearm is safe when the range goes cold of if I move the rifle..

mpnv
March 03, 2015, 16:35
My range insists on flags.

Timber Wolf
March 03, 2015, 19:10
I love my range, no flags, showing empty chambers, etc. But we do have multiple individual bays.:) And yes, it takes a heck of a lot of dirt to accomplish!

johndoe
March 03, 2015, 23:05
I did the safety cut on the Aks I built but not the ones I bought.

Sagerider
March 04, 2015, 18:13
Don't do it! I bought a PAP and it had the notch in the safety and it sucked!
It was not positive and would slip out at the most inconvenient time.
The purpose of the safety latch not only activates the safety it also closes up the huge gash open to the internals of your rifle. The AK will run with sand, mud and so forth in the guts but not so much with rocks.
If you want to hold the bolt open use a block of wood in the ejection port sort of like a flag if you will, pull the mag and insert from the bottom.
My 2 cents

paulb2112
March 04, 2015, 19:38
If you cut notch at a slight slant it would be very unlikely for it to slip out.
Also if you use bolt hold open mags the cut is very usefull.
When you remove the mag the bolt closes. If you notch lever right you can engage safety when mag locks back, change mag, then chamber next round as releasing safety.

shep854
March 04, 2015, 19:49
paulb2112, I have been thinking about placing a notch where a 'hold-open' mag would hold the bolt. It does seem like a good idea.
My main thought is simply a quick way to hold the bolt open for 'admin' purposes. It *might* also aid cooling after long strings of fire.
I am still hesitant, partly because I surely want to make sure it gets done right and neatly--once I start cutting, I OWN it... :p

DYNOMIKE
March 05, 2015, 10:00
I love my range, no flags, showing empty chambers, etc. But we do have multiple individual bays.:) And yes, it takes a heck of a lot of dirt to accomplish!

Flag or not clearing and showing an empty chamber is just good safety sense..
I would not like shooting at a range where the shooters didn't care about safety...

xtremerange
March 05, 2015, 12:14
Flag or not clearing and showing an empty chamber is just good safety sense..
I would NOT shoot at a range where the shooters didn't care about safety...

FIFY.

Seriously, I double check the chambers on my own weapons even when I am alone. Just good habit for when others are there.

We have a no RO range. When I double check things on my own I see the few others there take notice and be a little more conscious of there own weapons at down range time.

shep854
March 05, 2015, 12:44
I have a friend who blew his own leg off with an 'unloaded' shotgun. It was off-safe, and a fold of cloth got into the trigger guard. :sad:
Yes, I'm big on firearm safety.

DYNOMIKE
March 05, 2015, 13:07
FIFY.
Seriously, I double check the chambers on my own weapons even when I am alone. Just good habit for when others are there.

We have a no RO range. When I double check things on my own I see the few others there take notice and be a little more conscious of there own weapons at down range time.

Correction noted....
That is a proper fix...
One can never be too safe, I too double check all my guns when at the range be it private or public as well as at home.. In fact any gun I handle gets checked even if someone checked it before me.. If at a range with other shooters around me I observe them as well and have noted on many occasions unsafe practices including mags left in a gun and or chambers not being cleared..

I would do the same things if I was by myself & at my very own range if I had one.. Walking downrange (or sending your kids downrange) and NOT following such a basic safety rule is inexcusable..

paulb2112
March 05, 2015, 13:08
Safety levers are cheap and easy to get. Pick up a spare and try it.
If you do a search you will find past posts with pictures.

shep854
March 05, 2015, 13:11
Safety levers are cheap and easy to get. Pick up a spare and try it.
If you do a search you will find past posts with pictures.
Thanks!

jam762
March 06, 2015, 11:58
Krebs makes one but they're about $45 or so.

shep854
March 06, 2015, 13:36
Krebs makes one but they're about $45 or so.

'Zakly...that's a tad high for five cents' worth of metal--though I concede that what's done with that bit of metal adds to its value. ;)

jam762
March 06, 2015, 14:02
Pick one up in the MP here or at akfiles and hack it up. I wouldn't hack my origional lever.

shep854
March 06, 2015, 17:48
That thought has crossed my mind also, Jam762! :)
I need to make sure I can install a new lever before I do anything drastic...;)

gunplumber
March 06, 2015, 18:11
If you cut notch at a slight slant it would be very unlikely for it to slip out.
Also if you use bolt hold open mags the cut is very usefull.

Why?

Lets look at the manual of arms.

AK does not go bang. 99% of the time, this is because the gun is empty.

Normal immediate action = reload.

Regular AK.
Remove mag
insert new mag
rack action
(this also clears 90% of AK malfunctions, as rare as they may be)

Safety Mod AK
Pull bolt back with one hand and with your other hand
Activate Safety
remove mag
insert new mag
disengage safety against the force of the return spring (have fun with that).

BHO AK
Remove mag (which closes bolt)
insert new mag
rack action

You gain exactly what over no BHO?

BHO AK + safety mod
Bolt locks open
manually pull bolt back further, hold it with one hand and
Activate Safety with your other hand
remove mag
insert new mag
disengage safety against the force of the return spring.

BHO and safety lever mod are answers to a non-existent problem.

hueyville
March 06, 2015, 19:07
If range is worried about status of firearms a standard accepted color range flag is the least likely to cause issue. Seen people show up with yellow, orange, white and even camo versions. Camp is stupid as not using a flag in the woods and entire point is easy verification that gun is unloaded. If I ran range would have a standard color of say yellow or orange, no shell cases, blocks of wood or anything that could cause my R.O. to miss something.

At some ranges I see no need, others participants can be so stupid I want chamber flags big red flag with rod blocking bore saying remove before firing, magazines separated from bench and R.O. assigned to everyone referred to as Bubba or other hillbilly nickname. Others as long as operators declare weapon safe I am good. Dynamic of crowd is very important. Have left ranges with working R.O. due to morons that are too stupid to follow instructions. Came close to shooting a guy who screamed "weapon hot, ready to fire. Ears?" when three people still setting targets on far end from him.

Luckily public ranges are not something I have to use often. Have 75 yards with backstop in yard. 60 feet indoor at work and 400 meters/yards at farm. Very nicely run range 90 minutes from home with 1,000 meter rifle range, inexpensive and easy for non members to get access. Manage two to four trips there per year which is enough to keep me dangerous at extended range. My 400 meter personal range allows enough distance for any gremlins in stance, grip, trigger control, etc to show up. If keeping it tight at 400 then the trips to kilometer range are more to test ammo, equipment and remind yourself that can still dope for distance and wind.

Thus my trips where shoot with strangers are very few. Usually its me, wife sometimes and nephew on occasion. He is my saving grace with four wheeler swapping targets and placing random size and distance objects for me. While can judge distance pretty well as know how far to specific trees lining one side of range, often use a blinder to reduce ability to see off lane. Almost done with indoor ranges. Have one that allows early morning or after hours private time if pay for priveledge. Some of my clients can afford and if question why, take them in mid day on Saturday or after 5:00 pm on weekdays. Next trip usually arrange schedule and check book for private range time for class.

shep854
March 06, 2015, 19:21
Thanks for all the replies. Also, I'm glad to have gotten some thinking and comments on safety. I'm not sold on any action, just gathering information.

Mention was made of the Krebs safety. I just came across a site dedicated to the WASR 10, and they have an article on the Krebs safety and a bolt hold-open notch in general. I'm not taking sides, just sharing for general info:
http://wasr-10.com/KrebsMKVI

paulb2112
March 06, 2015, 21:00
Why?

Lets look at the manual of arms.

AK does not go bang. 99% of the time, this is because the gun is empty.

Normal immediate action = reload.

Regular AK.
Remove mag
insert new mag
rack action
(this also clears 90% of AK malfunctions, as rare as they may be)

Safety Mod AK
Pull bolt back with one hand and with your other hand
Activate Safety
remove mag
insert new mag
disengage safety against the force of the return spring (have fun with that).

BHO AK
Remove mag (which closes bolt)
insert new mag
rack action

You gain exactly what over no BHO?

BHO AK + safety mod
Bolt locks open
manually pull bolt back further, hold it with one hand and
Activate Safety with your other hand
remove mag
insert new mag
disengage safety against the force of the return spring.

BHO and safety lever mod are answers to a non-existent problem.

Youre usually a pretty sharp guy. Youll figure it out.

gunplumber
March 07, 2015, 09:37
Also if you use bolt hold open mags the cut is very usefull.

It is not, for the reasons I provided

Youre usually a pretty sharp guy. Youll figure it out.

I did. Translation follows.

Mark - your simple and logical analysis demonstrated that my new widget is actually much slower than the way Kalishnikov designed it 60 years ago. You have shattering my illusion of sophistication, and I am mad at you for doing so. I just have to change parts on the gun and pretend it's an improvement, and I don't need you pointing out my fallacies.

cavegeo
March 07, 2015, 09:58
It is not, for the reasons I provided



I did. Translation follows.

Mark - your simple and logical analysis demonstrated that my new widget is actually much slower than the way Kalishnikov designed it 60 years ago. You have shattered my illusion of sophistication, and I am mad at you for doing so. I just have to change parts on the gun and pretend it's an improvement, and I don't need you pointing out my fallacies.

FIFY

gunplumber
March 07, 2015, 10:24
Argh! Started with , shattering my illusion,"; tried to change to ", you have shattered . . "

Will flog myself in penance.

flopshot
March 07, 2015, 10:56
i never saw the value or utility of a safety BHO on an AK nor the need to spend money on the other solutions. i like the BHO on ARs but hell, it's an AK and fine the way it is.

Sagerider
March 07, 2015, 16:21
Just had a thought about painting the hammer bright yellow. If you see yellow with the safety off the hammer is not cocked. Maybe stupid but maybe not.

gunplumber
March 07, 2015, 16:29
Just had a thought about painting the hammer bright yellow. If you see yellow with the safety off the hammer is not cocked. Maybe stupid but maybe not.

Hmmm. Interesting. Not a loaded round indicator, but possibly useful.

BUT - a hammer forward does not mean the chamber is empty. It could still have a live round, an empty case, or a dud.

If the hammer is back, then it also doesn't mean there is a round or empty case in the chamber. You still have to pull the bolt back to see.

And if there is enough light to see, you can see the hammer. And if there is not enough light to see . .. .

I'm just not seeing where it would tell you anything other than the hammer is forward. And that's only half the question. Both from a safety and an operational standpoint.

Sagerider
March 07, 2015, 17:13
All true.

paulb2112
March 07, 2015, 19:04
Damn,
Zastava could have saved millions checking with some here first.
I guess rebuilding someone elses engineering from 60 years ago leapfrogs you to same credentials.
To choose against the bho function personally is reasonable. To say it has no tactical value as a stated fact ridiculous.

gunplumber
March 07, 2015, 19:20
Damn,
Zastava could have saved millions checking with some here first.
I guess rebuilding someone elses engineering from 60 years ago leapfrogs you to same credentials.
To choose against the bho function personally is reasonable. To say it has no tactical value as a stated fact ridiculous.

I have no emotional interest in what shit people put on their AKs, but I learned long ago that hanging fuzzy dice from the rear-view mirror just doesn't make the car go any faster.

But I'm eager to enhance my knowledge, so please tell me:

1) What is the "tactical" value.

2) Which point in my analysis do you find in factual error?

tdb59
March 07, 2015, 19:38
Argh! ...

Will flog myself in penance.


Penance- is that a new designer label ?


.

Timber Wolf
March 07, 2015, 19:53
Flag or not clearing and showing an empty chamber is just good safety sense..
I would not like shooting at a range where the shooters didn't care about safety...

And just how did anything I said indicate not caring about safety? At my club each shooter or small group has their very own three sided bay to shoot in. You CAN NOT even see the shooters in the next bay let alone look over there to see if they have a flag in or bolt locked back.

mpnv
March 07, 2015, 20:08
Damn,
Zastava could have saved millions checking with some here first.
I guess rebuilding someone elses engineering from 60 years ago leapfrogs you to same credentials.
To choose against the bho function personally is reasonable. To say it has no tactical value as a stated fact ridiculous.

What is the "Tactical" advantage with a BHO if when you remove the magazine it does the same thing as not having on at all?? Please educate me on this.. I don't get it??

flopshot
March 07, 2015, 20:09
To say it has no tactical value as a stated fact ridiculous.

we were talking about a notch in the safety lever. not familiar with the million dollar Zestava feature but the notched lever has zero advantage.

shep854
March 07, 2015, 21:19
Can somebody lock this thread? It's done.

shep854
March 15, 2015, 10:49
FINISHED!! And I didn't ruin the lever! Using a Dremel very carefully, I managed to cut a neat notch that's easy to use.

Thanks again for all the comments. I understand the differing viewpoints and suggestions; I took them all under consideration.:smile: