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embatp
February 12, 2015, 01:53
Here is the thread that kinda started this whole thing.....

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381763

Long story short....I bought a barrel from him in a private sale via pm....received the barrel and suspected it was not advertised so I sent it off to adam762 to verify....barrel was scrubbed instead of un-numbered....yes it was 4 months after the sale that I contacted the seller to inform him that it was not as advertised and asked for a partial refund ($100) based on what I though the barrel was worth based on what it was and what similar barrel were selling for ($200)....

Buyer immediately starts "poor boy"ing it , saying it was gonna take him 4 months to come up with $100, I don't make much money etc....offered to trade parts but he didn't have anything I needed or wanted....

So the first of the year rolls around, we still are not straight on the barrel....he starts asking about parts, kits etc like he might be in the market for something....at least that's my impression....then he actually pm'd ME asking if I had any parts to sell!!! When I asked if we were gonna get straight on the barrel, he only offered $50 and that's all he could come up right now etc....

Well during the time this was going on here he is asking about ar15 kits ,

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/666169_Royal_Tiger_kits_under_400_00_yay_or_nay_.h tml

He must have bought them because here he is looking for buttstocks.....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/667276_Where_can_I_find_M16A1_Buttstocks_.html


I hope he enjoying the new UZI he bought, the one he is talking about doing an SBR on....

http://www.theakforum.net/forums/14-general-discussion/178052-bought-uzi-semi-auto-only.html


So I guess he either had the money, or got it...he just didn't want to give me $100 of it....

I will no longer do any business with him , nor will a few other members here that pm'd me and told me so.....if you buy/sell/trade with him I would be very careful....

Jaxxas
February 12, 2015, 02:11
I followed the original review, I won't do business with a man without integrity or honor.

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 03:04
Here is the thread that kinda started this whole thing.....

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381763

Long story short....I bought a barrel from him in a private sale via pm....received the barrel and suspected it was not advertised so I sent it off to adam762 to verify....barrel was scrubbed instead of un-numbered....yes it was 4 months after the sale that I contacted the seller to inform him that it was not as advertised and asked for a partial refund ($100) based on what I though the barrel was worth based on what it was and what similar barrel were selling for ($200)....

Buyer immediately starts "poor boy"ing it , saying it was gonna take him 4 months to come up with $100, I don't make much money etc....offered to trade parts but he didn't have anything I needed or wanted....

So the first of the year rolls around, we still are not straight on the barrel....he starts asking about parts, kits etc like he might be in the market for something....at least that's my impression....then he actually pm'd ME asking if I had any parts to sell!!! When I asked if we were gonna get straight on the barrel, he only offered $50 and that's all he could come up right now etc....

Well during the time this was going on here he is asking about ar15 kits ,

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/666169_Royal_Tiger_kits_under_400_00_yay_or_nay_.h tml

He must have bought them because here he is looking for buttstocks.....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/667276_Where_can_I_find_M16A1_Buttstocks_.html


I hope he enjoying the new UZI he bought, the one he is talking about doing an SBR on....

http://www.theakforum.net/forums/14-general-discussion/178052-bought-uzi-semi-auto-only.html


So I guess he either had the money, or got it...he just didn't want to give me $100 of it....

I will no longer do any business with him , nor will a few other members here that pm'd me and told me so.....if you buy/sell/trade with him I would be very careful....


Ok so let me get this straight? You contacted me after 4 months, sending it to a gunsmith without even telling me of the problem. You came up with 100.00 refund price based on your own views of what you thought the barrel was worth.

I did something that honestly was a big mistake on my part. I let you in on my financial situation which you've chosen to make a big joke out of.....And for the record asking about kits etc doesn't mean your going to buy them.....Which was where you first insulted me. Granted you apologized but still.

I did my best to meet you in the middle at 50.00 you declined. Against my better judgement I went up to 75.00 with a time limit. Even reached out to you via PM about the offer.....And instead of trying to meet in the middle you insulted me by saying "Well if you can up with 75.00 what's another 25.00?"

Oh and I never bought the m16 kits once again I asked about them and that was it....There is no crime in that despite what you think....OH and the money for the Uzi not that it's any of your business I sold this rifle to fund it......Which should be no problem finding the transaction since you are quite good at stalking on other boards. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/sablephoenixxm/IMG_0298_zpss6iw0noc.jpg

As far as dealing with me just look at my marketplace feedback....I've now had to add as is on anything I post now because of the childish behavior of someone I once respected as a member here..... This is simply a childish vendetta.

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 03:05
I followed the original review, I won't do business with a man without integrity or honor.

A man without honor or integrity would have told him after the crap he's pulled to pound sand.....I've tried to make it right with him. There is only one person being unreasonable here and it's not me.

embatp
February 12, 2015, 03:49
Wow....I get screwed and I'm being unreasonable ? And save the respect shit for someone else.....you have turned this thing around and came up with so many excuses for your actions it's not even funny....my story has stayed the same since this started....yours hasn't...."I don't have the money " " I sold this" etc etc.....no one believes you any more and you can't prove any of it anyway....and I'm not a stalker....a fellow member here turned me on to your other threads....

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 04:19
Wow....I get screwed and I'm being unreasonable ? And save the respect shit for someone else.....you have turned this thing around and came up with so many excuses for your actions it's not even funny....my story has stayed the same since this started....yours hasn't...."I don't have the money " " I sold this" etc etc.....no one believes you any more and you can't prove any of it anyway....and I'm not a stalker....a fellow member here turned me on to your other threads....

Honestly Emb you can believe whatever you want. I'm not in the business of trying to make you believe me...... My history on this board as far as transactions goes has been mostly positive with the exception of this one....

And I've stuck to my reasons as well. "Lack of communication, increased time between transaction and first contact of problem etc." You may feel you have gotten screwed but I have my rights as well as a seller.

You've come across as a bully from the start of this. You feel you've been screwed....Funny how you keep saying that. I feel the same way. I have stated multiple times you should have contacted me from the start of this about the issue. You've called me a liar multiple times, you've insulted me multiple times, gotten multiple members involved.....And basically tried to ruin my reputation on this board over what 25.00 dollars?!

Yes I was was honestly strapped for cash at the time you first contacted me....My actual words were give me some time and Ill make this right...... but never did I once agree to refund you 100.00.

You came up with that figure on your own.

You sent the barrel to ADAM762 I'm glad he verified it with you and I did agree with you after the photos were presented and tried to settle with you.
You chose to refuse the first offer of 50.00....Again this was 4 months after the first transaction. We went round and round and that was then ADAM762 posted the thread and the photos.

I chose to bring it out in the open because I felt as though I should explain myself and then you did as well so it was in the open. Again I offered 50.00 based on what was reasonable based on not only your side of this but mine as well. You disagreed and then turned it into a big debate on what the barrel was worth.....The old saying about opinions comes into this. After getting feedback from not only other well respected members on the board but people I've dealt with who sell parts to end this issue I raised the refund offer to 75.00 which quite a few on the board thought it was reasonable to do this.

I did put a time limit on it for a reason....I didn't want to turn this into a circle jerk where I had to dance around this issue for weeks. I reached out to you privately about my willingness to make this right and offered you 75.00 and you simply told me well if you can go 75.00 whats another 25.00?....That felt like a slap in the face.

I didn't have to offer anything but because of this board and how I feel about it I made the offers.....No intimidation, no bias, I chose to reach out to you twice to make this right and you yourself said you hated how this was going down and it left a black mark on the board....Yet you chose to remain in this "It's my way or nothing stance."

And addressing the issue of asking questions about kits etc as well as my own transactions....What business is it of yours? Am I not allowed to ask questions if something is a good deal or not? I'm not indebted to you for anything

I offered you a refund twice and you chose to refuse it because it didn't meet your demands.

Again look at my selling history here....It's been solid apart from this one transaction....With multiple long time members.....I doubt they would have done business with me if I was a liar etc....

Bottom line is I offered to meet you in fact past the middle and basically right outside your side of the metaphorical fence on the price to fix this and you spat in my face.....

Well I've certainly learned a lot from this experience.

nictra
February 12, 2015, 07:20
huh, what someone does on another board can be reflected on them on this one? If this is how low this forum has gotten, revoke my membership, pretty sure I'd be better off without it.

Disappointed.....

ETA thumbs up x 100 for all the time SaigamanTX has helped me, gone out of the way to make a good deal for me, to ship items fast, and to find things for me that he wasn't even selling that he knew I needed.

thumbs down to you sir for not budging an inch. He offered to meet you half way, you said no. He offered to meet you 75% of the way, still not good enough. The truth is, you both neglected to do your due diligence on this transaction, yet he's the only one that has to deal with the consequences? Take some responsibility for your actions, and stop stalking this guy, getting pretty creepy.

Abominog
February 12, 2015, 09:24
If you read the "CYA" sticky in MP, it suggest ads include something like:

"5. A 3-day non-firing inspection, from the date of receipt by the buyer, will be allowed. At the conclusion of the three days, the sale becomes final. If the buyer finds the items unsatisfactory they must notify the seller by PM within 3 days of receiving the items. All items must be returned, undamaged, within 14 days of the initial notification via insured shipment. Buyer will be responsible for return shipping costs. The purchase price less the actual original shipping fees will be refunded via United States Postal Money Order within 14 days of seller receiving the return shipment. If the buyer fails to follow these stipulations, the sale becomes final."


That would have taken care of this problem right from the get-go.

J. Armstrong
February 12, 2015, 09:27
huh, what someone does on another board can be reflected on them on this one? If this is how low this forum has gotten, revoke my membership, pretty sure I'd be better off without it.

Disappointed.....

ETA thumbs up x 100 for all the time SaigamanTX has helped me, gone out of the way to make a good deal for me, to ship items fast, and to find things for me that he wasn't even selling that he knew I needed.

thumbs down to you sir for not budging an inch. He offered to meet you half way, you said no. He offered to meet you 75% of the way, still not good enough. The truth is, you both neglected to do your due diligence on this transaction, yet he's the only one that has to deal with the consequences? Take some responsibility for your actions, and stop stalking this guy, getting pretty creepy.

In general, a bad buyer/seller on one board will sooner or later be bad here. The site of the dealings has no bearing on the honor of the person. If I were selling my used car and a neighbor informed me that my potential buyer had stiffed him on a similar deal, I'd damn sure be glad of the info and would certainly reconsider the sale. I'll bet you would, too, and rightfully so.

That said, I agree with the remainder of your assessment. My primary observation is that 4 months is taking way too long to identify a problem. I do understand how it can happen, but it opens the possibility of the seller saying that the scrubbing/refin actually took place during that period in the buyers hands. Not saying that happened, but it just potentially clouds the issue. Also, we do not know whether the seller would have been in the position to offer a return for full refund had the problem been identified immediately.

It seems to me that both parties have made honest, albeit perhaps careless, mistakes - happens sometimes, unfortunately. Personally, were I the buyer, I would simply accept that my failure to timely raise the complaint would mean I might have to eat the loss, but that's just me. Were I the presiding judge, my immediate reaction based upon the points raised here would be to award the seller the $50, scrub this bad review, and put it all to bed.

JMHO, YMMV.

RG Coburn
February 12, 2015, 09:27
Expecting a 120 day inspection period? Seriously? Unless the original deal was made with caveats and conditions,like "100% money back if not satisfied" or "unlimited inspection time period"etc..etc..its caveat emptor. So what is wrong with the barrel,other than no numbers? Is it in fact, Belgian?
Where is the original listing? Went thru the various links in this thread and the other,even looked thru Saiga's stats,didn't see the original sale post.
How are we supposed to know the descriptions,terms and conditions of the sale?

Edit...
"....I bought a barrel from him in a private sale via pm...."
Now I see..no listing.

embatp
February 12, 2015, 11:40
So no one here thinks it even the least bit screwed up that the whole time he's saying I don't have the money,...not that he wouldn't refund it, but that he didn't have it to begin with, he's out buying a $800 uzi?

Apparently you can't stand up for yourself on this board anymore....

nictra
February 12, 2015, 12:07
So no one here thinks it even the least bit screwed up that the whole time he's saying I don't have the money,...not that he wouldn't refund it, but that he didn't have it to begin with, he's out buying a $800 uzi?

Apparently you can't stand up for yourself on this board anymore....

he stated he sold another firearm to obtain it. Besides, it's no ones business but his own what his financial situation is. I've read here and in the other thread where he has offered you $, just not what you want. A stick that won't bend will break.

ismith
February 12, 2015, 12:28
Only a moron would consider a 120 day inspection period to be reasonable.

embatp
February 12, 2015, 13:02
Only a moron would consider a 120 day inspection period to be reasonable.

Only a moron would infer that I think that from anything I posted...

nictra
February 12, 2015, 13:56
since we're looking at other websites for intuition as to what's right and wrong here, let's see what you think of this situation:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1717343_Advice_on_EE_deal.html

embatp
February 12, 2015, 14:09
I'm not looking to other sites for right or wrong.....if he had offered the $75 up front I probably would have taken it.....only after he starts his poor boy routine that he didn't have any money, then a month later he starts buying stuff before he squares up with me is the issue I have and why I'm sticking to my guns (no pun intended) on the $100....I feel like I have been lied to and I have no use or respect for liars....

Didn't the guy in that thread send it to a smith or that he had a smith check it out?

That's exactly what I did....there was no use to even bring it up to the seller until I knew, FOR SURE, what the situation was.....when I brought it up to the seller is when he started his "I don't have the money" and "how do I know your smith knows what he's talking about" routine....he only came up with the $75 after he was outed....

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 15:07
I'm not looking to other sites for right or wrong.....if he had offered the $75 up front I probably would have taken it.....only after he starts his poor boy routine that he didn't have any money, then a month later he starts buying stuff before he squares up with me is the issue I have and why I'm sticking to my guns (no pun intended) on the $100....I feel like I have been lied to and I have no use or respect for liars....

Didn't the guy in that thread send it to a smith or that he had a smith check it out?

That's exactly what I did....there was no use to even bring it up to the seller until I knew, FOR SURE, what the situation was.....when I brought it up to the seller is when he started his "I don't have the money" and "how do I know your smith knows what he's talking about" routine....he only came up with the $75 after he was outed....

If you feel like you've been lied to you misunderstand a lot of things people say and let's get something straight here I did not lie to you about being short on money at the beginning of the year. If you think that by me asking about parts and deals indicated I was trying to stiff you well that's your opinion but its not the truth.

It's none of your business how I choose to spend any income I make whether it's on another rifle or parts etc....Oh and btw I explained my situation regarding this hobby before.....Which you later insulted me on......Granted you apologized but still.

You are also twisting facts about my second offer as well. You are the one now in fact lying. I raised my offer to 75.00 as a last ditch effort to end this stupidity.....And once again you spat in my face by giving me this response about how it should be no problem coming up with an extra 25.00.......


You chose to send it to a smith first...bud that is not my problem! We could have arranged something where you could have sent the barrel to Adam to verify and if something was wrong we could have done a refund....No you didn't do that or even contact me until December...... That was your call not mine. And yes I asked for proof but how is that not within my rights? He could have sent it in a pm or even you could have but no it was aired out in public.

And I offered you 50.00 because it was meeting in the middle. You've been hostile ever since I offered you 50.00.....and get something through your head no one outed me....I raised the offer to 75 despite your tactics to end this.

You say you feel you've been lied to well I feel you are trying to bully your way into getting what you want. Bottom line we both made mistakes but yet I'm the only one at fault.

I've made 2 attempts to solve this but as far as I am concerned with the way you have handled this my last offer was it.....And that had a time limit

RG Coburn
February 12, 2015, 15:54
Is the barrel bent?
Is the barrel bulged?
Is the barrel pitted/rusty?
Are the threads buggered?
Are the Belgian proofs fake?
Did the seller post pictures of serial numbers in the PM deal,and the barrel you got did not have them?
Did you ask for pictures of the stamps before sealing the deal?
If not,why not?

nwobhm
February 12, 2015, 16:06
Why not put the barrel up for auction on GB with scrubbed serial # fully disclosed? Seller refunds the difference + auction fee. The market will decide the value.

Topbanana
February 12, 2015, 16:44
Is the barrel bent?
Is the barrel bulged?
Is the barrel pitted/rusty?
Are the threads buggered?
Are the Belgian proofs fake?
Did the seller post pictures of serial numbers in the PM deal,and the barrel you got did not have them?
Did you ask for pictures of the stamps before sealing the deal?
If not,why not?

This!!!

I don't think he owes you shit. You think you over paid, tough titty, learn from it, and be a ******* man and not drag butthurt across three threads about it.

Here's a cool idea, why not put your own number on it if it bothers you so ******* much?? (Just in case you didn't know, the BBL # goes **UNDER** the handgaurds where *****NO ONE**** can see it). Hope you got a force matched upper to go with it since you've been such a queen about all of this.

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 16:45
Is the barrel bent?
Is the barrel bulged?
Is the barrel pitted/rusty?
Are the threads buggered?
Are the Belgian proofs fake?
Did the seller post pictures of serial numbers in the PM deal,and the barrel you got did not have them?
Did you ask for pictures of the stamps before sealing the deal?
If not,why not?

Barrel is not bent
Barrel is not bulged
The barrel might have been off a pulled Rhodesian service gun I am not sure.
Belgian proofs are 100% real
I had originally posted pics of the barrel in the metric section of the board to figure out what it was. Included in the pics was the stamps.

jimmbob
February 12, 2015, 16:54
all I got to say is someone's being a nancy boy...



again



:eek:

embatp
February 12, 2015, 17:06
Wow....this forum has really gone in the shitter.....a guy screws a guy, he stands up for himself, posts negative feedback for a bad situation like everyone says you should and I'm the bad guy? Please.....

And for all those saying I'm being a little bitch you can go **** yourselves .....if you guys get screwed are you saying you wouldn't stand up for yourselves when you been out and out lied to?

I'm done....I said what I had to say....

embatp
February 12, 2015, 17:07
This!!!

I don't think he owes you shit. You think you over paid, tough titty, learn from it, and be a ******* man and not drag butthurt across three threads about it.

Here's a cool idea, why not put your own number on it if it bothers you so ******* much?? (Just in case you didn't know, the BBL # goes **UNDER** the handgaurds where *****NO ONE**** can see it). Hope you got a force matched upper to go with it since you've been such a queen about all of this.

**** YOU....

tdb59
February 12, 2015, 17:11
Just because jimmbob and I act like our avatars does not mean that everyone has to.




.

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 17:12
Wow....this forum has really gone in the shitter.....a guy screws a guy, he stands up for himself, posts negative feedback for a bad situation like everyone says you should and I'm the bad guy? Please.....

And for all those saying I'm being a little bitch you can go **** yourselves .....if you guys get screwed are you saying you wouldn't stand up for yourselves when you been out and out lied to?

I'm done....I said what I had to say....

And there you go with the lying stance again......:facepalm:

jimmbob
February 12, 2015, 17:25
And for all those saying I'm being a little bitch you can go **** yourselves ......

How about if someone indirectly refered to you as a "nancy boy", would said person be included in the "go **** yourselves category or possibly be exempted from such a demeaning fate:?

Jaxxas
February 12, 2015, 18:00
Is the barrel bent?
Is the barrel bulged?
Is the barrel pitted/rusty?
Are the threads buggered?
Are the Belgian proofs fake?
Did the seller post pictures of serial numbers in the PM deal,and the barrel you got did not have them?
Did you ask for pictures of the stamps before sealing the deal?
If not,why not?

Wrong questions, the barrel is obviously not what it was advertised to be and seemingly obvious, deception was the intent of scrubbing the serial number. And there were pictures, but now they are gone? And while it sounds as though there will be no recourse coming, it should be noted that the seller is either clueless or was intentionally deceptive. Either case I wouldn't do business with him from either side of the table.

YMMV

4 brigada
February 12, 2015, 18:13
WTF is it with the name calling and derogatory terms, Regardless embatp, posted his grievance. Unless you have a dog in the race, read and then decide if you want to do business with either of the two parties in the future and let it be.

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 18:25
Wrong questions, the barrel is obviously not what it was advertised to be and seemingly obvious, deception was the intent of scrubbing the serial number. And there were pictures, but now they are gone? And while it sounds as though there will be no recourse coming, it should be noted that the seller is either clueless or was intentionally deceptive. Either case I wouldn't do business with him from either side of the table.

YMMV

Jaxxas I was not made aware of the issue until I was contacted. I should note something EMB even stated in a previous pm he thought this was done professionally or at an armorers level when he contacted me with the issue. I did not intentionally deceive anyone. Ill admit to being a little clueless as I am learning about parts all the time. I thought it might have been wear from someone trying to mount it to a gun.

As far as scrubbing the serial it was thought this might have come from a gun that saw service in Rhodesia so it's possible this happened during it's service life.

I find the fact you are implying I knowingly sold this barrel as unserialized when in fact it ended up being scrubbed or might have scrubbed this barrel offensive.

brunop
February 12, 2015, 18:36
Okay - everybody had their say. Let's call it 'good enough' and go talk about something else somewhere else.

4brigada got it exactly right: read it, make your call about your own actions, and let it be.

Jaxxas
February 12, 2015, 18:41
Jaxxas I was not made aware of the issue until I was contacted. I should note something EMB even stated in a previous pm he thought this was done professionally or at an armorers level when he contacted me with the issue. I did not intentionally deceive anyone. Ill admit to being a little clueless as I am learning about parts all the time. I thought it might have been wear from someone trying to mount it to a gun.

As far as scrubbing the serial it was thought this might have come from a gun that saw service in Rhodesia so it's possible this happened during it's service life.

I find the fact you are implying I knowingly sold this barrel as unserialized when in fact it ended up being scrubbed or might have scrubbed this barrel offensive.

Offended? I said you were 'either' clueless or deceptive, you admit to the former.

saigamantx
February 12, 2015, 18:43
Offended? I said you were 'either' clueless or deceptive, you admit to the former.

I took offensive from being called deceptive. The other thing I have learned from this is do a bit more research on the parts I sell. I honestly thought it was unserialized

brunop
February 12, 2015, 18:48
I'm locking it. Not because the last couple of posts are out of order, but because it already went past 'norm' a few posts ago, and this board has (correctly) canned 'dog piles' for about a decade.

The O.P. already said he's 'out'. Now everyone is.