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richbug
December 05, 2014, 13:23
Anybody have a Deslisle? Particularly one with the proper short action? Any thoughts on doing it yourself... It would be my first NFA item.

I have handled one of the clones(appeared to have the Rhineland conversion block), but shortening the bolt throw is half of the appeal.

Paperwork wise, what would the general course of action be to build one? 2 stamps?

I would figure on building a 16" rifle first, making sure it worked, before going the course of the SBR and Suppressor.

John A
December 05, 2014, 15:06
I have a few technical drawings saved from when I built a dedicated/suppressed 22lr AR upper in that same basic design, but I don't have any hands on with them specifically.

Awesome gun though and hollywood quiet with 22.

http://specialoperations.com/28973/de-lisle-carbine-forgotten-reaper/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fIGIKZ6B9Q&list=UUyWwjUbNJO8O6orcR4NbXXA

K. Funk
December 05, 2014, 18:20
I have a modern made one from Special Interest Arms. Mine is like the 2nd one down in the picture, even though I ordered it like the one on top.

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/index.php?page=enfield45sc

Overall, I am very happy with it, it is very quiet and holds very tight groups at 50 yds. It will get a groundhog at 100 on a good day.

Mine is only 1 stamp.

krf

richbug
December 05, 2014, 19:07
I have a modern made one from Special Interest Arms. Mine is like the 2nd one down in the picture, even though I ordered it like the one on top.

http://www.specialinterestarms.com/index.php?page=enfield45sc

Overall, I am very happy with it, it is very quiet and holds very tight groups at 50 yds. It will get a groundhog at 100 on a good day.

Mine is only 1 stamp.

krf

I guess I knew you had that. You may have even let me shoot it a few years back. I guess I didn't think of it as a Deslisle as it was all black.

That has the tube centered on the bore??? Another cool aspect of the real thing is the offset tube, screw shaped baffles, and asbestos packing.

Just listed another rifle on GB so I can justify this project in my head...

Gazz
December 08, 2014, 09:46
I have one of the Ishapore 2A rifles that had some problems with opening the bolt after shooting. The fired brass did not show any unusual marks and I gave up trying to solve the mystery and decided it would be a donor rifle for a De Lisle carbine. To achieve the short bolt throw, I plan on sectioning/welding the bolt and firing pin so that I can retain the bolt head. Shortening the bolt also allows the .45 magazine to be tight against the trigger guard as it was in the original - I do not care for the look that the magazine sticking out of the middle of .303 mag (or in this case, the 7.62 mag) has. This will also mean that the barrel will have to extend into the action a bit. I would like to have only one tax stamp for it though and to achieve the proper look, I wonder if the 16" barrel could have a number of ports along it's length to bleed gas into the suppressor. Anybody have any comments on the effectiveness of that? Currently, the 7.62 barrel is still on the action and has resisted attempts to remove it. I need to make a bushing for the barrel vise that has an 11 degree flat spot on it which I guess is the key to removing an Enfield barrel. Green Mountain barrels has 1" .45 cal blanks for $40.00

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/45-blank-45-acp-20-x-1-gunsmith-edition-raw-blank/

So with a bit of wrenching, lathe work, some welding and grinding, I could get to the .45ACP carbine stage of the build. I would wait until a Form 1 was approved before doing any of the barrel porting or suppressor work though. This would also be my first NFA type firearm.

Gazz
December 08, 2014, 11:54
Just checked with Green Mountain and they do not have the 1"x20" barrels in stock. You can buy a 17.5x1.25" for $40 or a 25"x1.25 for $51.95.

richbug
December 08, 2014, 12:47
The green mountain pistol barrels I have used on carbine projects have given good accuracy. That was my plan. There barrels go in and out of stock rapidly. Seems like they roll through aver a period of a couple months. This isn't exactly a short term project.

Yes, having the barrel intrude into the action.

I was planning to just cut off the bolt, rethread, looks to be 7/16-20, might be a bastard BSF thread and have to get a tap from England.

I think the long barrel full of holes is going to be a like a cheese grater on the bullet. I really wanted it to shoot lead.

Are you looking at the original screw type baffle with offset bore?

Aluminum like the original? I don't know that duraluminium is readily available any more. I was thinking a hardened 7075 if I can scrounge the right stock cost effectively.

Gazz
December 19, 2014, 00:37
I was looking for something else in the Practical Machinist forum and came across this thread that I posted a few years back;

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/shortening-smle-bolt-198076/

It's been so long since I started to think about this project that I forgot that I asked there!

richbug
December 20, 2014, 11:05
I was looking for something else in the Practical Machinist forum and came across this thread that I posted a few years back;

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/shortening-smle-bolt-198076/

It's been so long since I started to think about this project that I forgot that I asked there!

Lots of info there. I have a set of the original Brit patent office drawings/descriptions here if that helps you(scrounged off the net a while back).

Rich

Gazz
December 20, 2014, 23:02
A look at the original patent drawings would certainly be helpful since I would like to make one that is somewhat true to the real thing. Thanks for the offer! I hadn't realized that the baffles were not concentric which might add a bit of effort to the project. I guess I would have to see how they were made. I had thought that they would be something that could be turned easily enough in the lathe, especially if they were concentric. It may be easy enough to make a die and press them.

richbug
December 21, 2014, 15:45
PM me your email and I will send them. From what I can tell, the baffles start as a round disk, have an offset hole drilled in them for the bore, 2 holes drilled for the guide rods, then a cut from the edge into the center hole, then the flaps which are formed are bent opposite directions. When stacked up on the guide rods these forms a screw of sorts.

As to the bolt head thead, the #4mk1 I have here is 7/16-20UNF; contrary to the internet sources I have which say it is 7/16-18BSF.

I was all ready to order a BSF tap from the UK when I double checked for myself. I would suggest you double check any internet info you find...

idsubgun
December 23, 2014, 20:45
Another option is converting a Spanish Destroyer to .45 ACP and convert it to use single stack 1911 mags.
You'll have the short throw action as well.

An internet search will probably tell you how it's done. Twenty plus years ago, one of the guys in our full auto club did one. Very quiet!!

Gazz
February 05, 2016, 08:41
I have had some time to work on this project and have the receiver bored out to accept the barrel. It was not so simple to do. I made a threaded bushing to screw into the receiver that would allow the boring bar to pass through. Then I turned a mandrel and slipped the rear of the receiver over it. I had also drilled and tapped a 1/4-20 hole in the side of the mandrel and put a screw in it to act as a drive dog. The center rest was used on the bushing as it would be concentric to the receiver barrel threads and then I indicated that in to get the whole thing running true. It took several hours to do as the double interrupted cut required very slow and careful advancement of the carriage and flexing of the boring bar and receiver made me take very light cuts. I bored it out to the minor diameter of the barrel/receiver threads. I have the barrel between centers now but will probably not have time to work on it for the next few days.
I did buy a 7/16-20 tap but am still not sure it will work although the internet keeps telling me it will. If you measure the threads on a bolt head, it is not quite 14tpi but it may be close enough to work. I'll drill and tap a hole in a piece of steel to see if I can thread a bolt head into it. From the pictures I have seen online, the barrel is about 8" or 10" long. Does this mean I will need to tax stamps, one for the short barrel rifle and one for the suppressor? Or can I mount the exterior part of the suppressor permanently to provide the required 16" "barrel" length?

stimpsonjcat
February 05, 2016, 13:00
I have an M95 I plan to do this with...though not integral.

It will take the 45 can I made for the Uzi.

richbug
February 05, 2016, 15:08
From the pictures I have seen online, the barrel is about 8" or 10" long. Does this mean I will need to tax stamps, one for the short barrel rifle and one for the suppressor? Or can I mount the exterior part of the suppressor permanently to provide the required 16" "barrel" length?

That is my take on it, if done as the original was, it would take 2 stamps.

I would also permanently attach the barrel to the outer tube, if it would avoid a second stamp. Not sure how you would "weld" or otherwise "permanently" attach a duraluminium tube to the barrel.

Gazz
April 04, 2017, 18:24
I got back to this project. I have the barrel fitted to the receiver now and found that I bored out a bit to much, maybe about .25". I made a spacer that will become a feed ramp and pinned/welded it to the receiver. I had a .45ACP finish reamer that was an auction purchase and dug that out getting all excited to chamber the barrel. What!?!? the pilot does not fit in the bore! The pilot measures .452 and the bore of the GM barrel is .443". I called GM who confirmed that is the correct size bore for a .45ACP barrel and then called Clymer. They told me that my reamer which is marked B is for a barrel but the .452" pilot is for a revolver cylinder. So now I have to make a .443" pilot. My plan is to short chamber the barrel a bit and then figure out where to cut the bolt leaving it a bit long. Tap the bolt body for the bolt head and try and sneak up on the two, bolt length and chamber depth, until the bolt closes on a fully chambered round and the bolt head rests firmly against the front of the bolt body.
As far as the can goes, I may make it from steel that could be welded or brazed to the barrel. This could be parked along with the rest of the rifle as one piece. If I choose to use aluminum, I might make an aluminum end plate that would be screwed to the barrel (like set screws on a pulley and motor shaft but threaded into the walls of the barrel) then the aluminum tube would slip over that covering the screws so that they cannot be removed and then welding the two aluminum pieces together. This would create a finish problem though. Gonna have to think about this. Hopefully suppressors will be removed from the NFA and then things would much easier. It may happen in time at the rate I am progressing on the project.

Riversidesports
April 05, 2017, 00:25
There is a great thread on Weapons Guild with tons of pix posted by a German member who built a near exact reproduction of a Delise last year

Gazz
April 05, 2017, 13:28
I've tried to log in at Weapons Guild and was a member there at one time but forget my password. I clicked on the forgot password thing and that was yesterday and have not received any response. I had forgotten how they encourage you to post there. You can't see this until 5 posts, you can't see this until after 10 posts etc. etc. So anyway, I can't see those pics although it would be nice.
I just realized another error. I did set the barrel to far back in the receiver completely forgetting about the ejector. Cases will not clear the chamber before hitting the ejector screw. I'll need to make a new "feed ramp" spacer and cut about .2" off the breech end of the barrel.