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Glucker
October 28, 2014, 22:27
I'm wondering whether anyone knows, whether PPU 158 grain 9mm ball is subsonic? Anybody fired any through a suppressor? Did you get the noise reduction you would expect from subsonic ammo?

I'm thinking it must be, there'd be no other reason for it to be so much more expensive than 115 or 125 gr. ball.

Thanks for any info.

4x401
October 28, 2014, 22:30
158 gr. Huh...
Got a link to this stuff?

SAFN49
October 28, 2014, 22:54
It's $18 for 50 rounds. 951 fps.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/PPU-Handgun-Ammunition/734668.uts#productChart

Anything 147gr and above has got be subsonic in a 9mm unless it is +P+

Glucker
October 28, 2014, 23:00
$15.95 at AIM.

Just went to the PPU website, they list the velocity at 300meters per second, which is subsonic. Now I can have some proper ammo for my Mossad suppressor.

SAFN49
October 28, 2014, 23:15
Hand load some cast 173gr's :biggrin:

2barearms
October 29, 2014, 06:21
Gluck

The Fiocchi 158gr SD is the stuff. I just saw the PPU in the email from AIM.
It's tempting. Called the Guys at RMR and they said that you could use a
158gr 38spl Plated/JHP in 9mm for a subsonic. No one to my knowledge actually makes a '9mm' bullet that heavy and believe Me I've looked.

Out of my 16" AR the 158's are dead quiet thru my Trident 9, hand guns
the same. The 147's are little loud out of the AR.

wonderdog451
October 29, 2014, 07:15
Gluck

The Fiocchi 158gr SD is the stuff. I just saw the PPU in the email from AIM.
It's tempting. Called the Guys at RMR and they said that you could use a
158gr 38spl Plated/JHP in 9mm for a subsonic. No one to my knowledge actually makes a '9mm' bullet that heavy and believe Me I've looked.

Out of my 16" AR the 158's are dead quiet thru my Trident 9, hand guns
the same. The 147's are little loud out of the AR.

That is some good information for us hand-loaders, I can buy a box of 500-1000 158 grain 38 special bullets and make up some decent subsonic ammunition in anticipation of the day I buy my first suppressor.

Glucker
October 29, 2014, 07:33
2barearms, I will keep my eyes open for the Fiocchi, but I never see any of that for sale at my normal ammo purveyors. Hopefullly the PPU will do the trick for me.

As far as handloading, I quit that back when I was 16 and have no inclination to resume that tedious pursuit.

SAFN49
October 29, 2014, 07:49
Gluck

The Fiocchi 158gr SD is the stuff. I just saw the PPU in the email from AIM.
It's tempting. Called the Guys at RMR and they said that you could use a
158gr 38spl Plated/JHP in 9mm for a subsonic. No one to my knowledge actually makes a '9mm' bullet that heavy and believe Me I've looked.

Out of my 16" AR the 158's are dead quiet thru my Trident 9, hand guns
the same. The 147's are little loud out of the AR.

Here is a link if you want to order a mold http://www.mountainmolds.com/ Select 175 gr .355 dia.

Stranger
October 29, 2014, 10:51
It's $18 for 50 rounds. 951 fps.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/PPU-Handgun-Ammunition/734668.uts#productChart

Anything 147gr and above has got be subsonic in a 9mm unless it is +P+

It depends on barrel length, in my experience. Both Federal American Eagle and Speer Lawman 147 gr ammo are subsonic out of a 5" barrel but supersonic out of an 7" barrel.

2barearms
October 29, 2014, 11:04
That is some good information for us hand-loaders, I can buy a box of 500-1000 158 grain 38 special bullets and make up some decent subsonic ammunition in anticipation of the day I buy my first suppressor.


The 38's are just a hair bigger than 9mm. Plated might be a bit safer than
jacketed, I haven't tried it yet but it's on my list.

SAFN49
October 29, 2014, 11:18
It depends on barrel length, in my experience. Both Federal American Eagle and Speer Lawman 147 gr ammo are subsonic out of a 5" barrel but supersonic out of an 7" barrel.

I was shooting them out of my 5" MAC 11 with a Sionics can.

I wonder what they are out of a 10"+ bbl?

Time to break out the chrony

2barearms
October 29, 2014, 11:48
I was shooting them out of my 5" MAC 11 with a Sionics can.

I wonder what they are out of a 10"+ bbl?

Time to break out the chrony

147's are not that loud out of longer barrels just not the same as the
'dead quiet' 158's.

Have you shot 175's out of a 9mm?

Glucker
October 29, 2014, 14:48
I have fired the American Eagle 147 gr. through my Gemtech Mossad, using the standard Uzi 10 inch subgun barrel. Was not impressed, was way louder than I expected.

SAFN49
October 29, 2014, 15:07
147's are not that loud out of longer barrels just not the same as the
'dead quiet' 158's.

Have you shot 175's out of a 9mm?

I shot some my buddy loaded. Reduced load ~800 fps super quiet, almost no recoil.

If you want to cast your own, you can choose any weight .355" between 160 gr and 175 gr. The only thing I will caution you about is try some of whatever bullet design you choose in your firearm, to make sure they function, before you buy the molds!!!

wonderdog451
October 29, 2014, 15:36
I was wondering if a 158 grain JHP fired out of an Uzi chambered in 9mm could be expected to penetrate and reliably expand if fired into ballistics gelatin or some other similar test medium?

SAFN49
October 29, 2014, 16:09
I was wondering if a 158 grain JHP fired out of an Uzi chambered in 9mm could be expected to penetrate and reliably expand if fired into ballistics gelatin or some other similar test medium?

They will penetrate, a lot. I don't know about expansion though.

SAFN49
October 30, 2014, 09:42
Wideners is out of stock

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=6788

You could try Billy 160gr hard cast moly coated 9mm

http://billybullets.com/Bullets.aspx

dtom29
November 01, 2014, 15:19
http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp

2barearms
November 01, 2014, 21:39
Wideners is out of stock

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=6788

You could try Billy 160gr hard cast moly coated 9mm

http://billybullets.com/Bullets.aspx

Try Rocky Mountain Reloading

SAFN49
December 06, 2014, 15:52
Just looking through UN Ammo and in the pistol section is

165gr 9mm subsonic ammo!!!!

http://www.unammo.com/#Rifle

Glucker
December 06, 2014, 21:22
That UNAmmo site is cool, I've never looked at them before. I wonder if the 30.06 is actually loaded in the Netherlands. Can't imagine why Pakistan would be buying ammo from Holland, of all places.Especially since as far as I know the factory currently known as POF was up and running before the 60s when this ammo was suppodely made.

Skilter
December 07, 2014, 00:13
The158 can work... but it is always better to run a 147 with proper powder aka the 147 Special K. Good luck finding any though... But from personal experience, the latter gives me better luck in accuracy than the former.

Artful
December 08, 2014, 01:15
All 158 grain 9mm I have tried are below trans-sonic so very quiet.
147 grain 9mm ammo in long barrels can be trans-sonic so get noisy in an UZI.

I reload mine with plated 147 TC over 3.7 VV 320 powder for my pistols.

You used to be able to get 158 isreali 9mm FMJ in 50 round boxes
that the printing on them made 'em look like little wooden crates.
That worked very nicely in my UZI w/ AWC Mk9 can.

If your loading .358 projo's you have to watch out for interference by
taper in brass wall thickness as your seating them deep,
and it can bulge the cartridge enough so they won't chamber or chamber tightly
and at the same time it can swage the bullet base and you loose accuracy.
You have to have enough room outside the case to have it let go
of the Projectile or pressures build too high.

I have loaded plated 160 38 super RN in 9mm but had to change powders
to something slower than VV 320.

Al Paulson's book on suppressors tells that the Navy had ammo custom
loaded with .358 170 Sierra FMJ bullets that were swaged to .355 before loaded.
But the S&W Pistols w/ hush puppy silencers couldn't take a
steady diet of them as it cracked the slides/frames.

SAFN49
December 08, 2014, 02:25
All 158 grain 9mm I have tried are below trans-sonic so very quiet.
147 grain 9mm ammo in long barrels can be trans-sonic so get noisy in an UZI.

I reload mine with plated 147 TC over 3.7 VV 320 powder for my pistols.

You used to be able to get 158 isreali 9mm FMJ in 50 round boxes
that the printing on them made 'em look like little wooden crates.
That worked very nicely in my UZI w/ AWC Mk9 can.

If your loading .358 projo's you have to watch out for interference by
taper in brass wall thickness as your seating them deep,
and it can bulge the cartridge enough so they won't chamber or chamber tightly
and at the same time it can swage the bullet base and you loose accuracy.
You have to have enough room outside the case to have it let go
of the Projectile or pressures build too high.

I have loaded plated 160 38 super RN in 9mm but had to change powders
to something slower than VV 320.

Al Paulson's book on suppressors tells that the Navy had ammo custom
loaded with .358 170 Sierra FMJ bullets that were swaged to .355 before loaded.
But the S&W Pistols w/ hush puppy silencers couldn't take a
steady diet of them as it cracked the slides/frames.

I shot some 162 or 163gr that my buddy loaded for his Swedish K @ ~800 fps. Talk about sweet. I'm thinking the UN 165gr @ 840 should be about the same.
I never had a problem with 147's in my MAC11 and Sionics suppressor, the bbl wasn't long enough. It's the guys running the longer bbl.'s on the AR's that have the issues with the 147's.

nopec
December 30, 2014, 18:00
What twist rate do these heavies need in a 9mm?

Artful
December 30, 2014, 22:09
My Walther P38/P1 is 1:10, Which is what my Beretta 92 is...

Peconga
January 13, 2015, 13:55
How is the sound signature of a subsonic vs "standard" 9x19 round without a suppressor, say from a standard 5" barrel? Obviously subsonic will still have a loud bang, but does the absence of a supersonic "crack" make any operational difference? More difficult to locate the shooter's location, for instance? Less noticeable inside a building or built-up environment? Just curious about the technical aspects from people who have used both.

Artful
January 13, 2015, 15:02
How is the sound signature of a subsonic vs "standard" 9x19 round without a suppressor, say from a standard 5" barrel? Obviously subsonic will still have a loud bang, but does the absence of a supersonic "crack" make any operational difference?
NOT that I have noticed - just that the heavy bullets hit much higher on target

More difficult to locate the shooter's location, for instance? Less noticeable inside a building or built-up environment? Just curious about the technical aspects from people who have used both.

Without the can it brings only penetration to the table.

SAFN49
January 13, 2015, 15:21
I haven't noticed any difference between the two without a suppressor.

stimpsonjcat
January 13, 2015, 16:37
I have a bunch of izzy 16(somethings)gr bullets for the Uzi that I load subsonic occasionally.

Can't find any fast powder local to load any more up though. :(

SAFN49
January 13, 2015, 16:55
I have a bunch of izzy 16(somethings)gr bullets for the Uzi that I load subsonic occasionally.

Can't find any fast powder local to load any more up though. :(

Send me your boolits :D

gunplumber
January 13, 2015, 19:10
IIRC, Israel developed the 158 SAMSON load to remain subsonic in a 10" uzi. But finding that (blue tip) ammo is tough.

L Haney
January 13, 2015, 19:16
I was in an Academy Sports today in Dalton Ga. They had 147 grain 9mm, maked "Subsonic" on the end flap. Remington ammo.

gunplumber
January 13, 2015, 20:04
147g is subsonic out of most 3-5" barrel handguns. Not 10" barrel submachineguns.

stimpsonjcat
January 13, 2015, 20:44
Send me your boolits :D

Ummm...no.