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View Full Version : WTK info about old Ruger Blackhawks


Guy-epic
July 02, 2014, 10:27
Ok I can buy a three screw Ruger Blawkhawk. For $200 needs to be blued and sent off to have safety bar installed at Ruger. I say I have to as my friend bought it for those parts only. It was made in 1969, blue is gone not a big deal polish it up and cold blue it is the plan. I want to shoot .357 in cowboy action. Six inch barrel. Very nice bore. What do you guys think? No pics yet but I know the friend well he paid $300 took $100 in parts off it and I get upgrade? By Ruger for the cost of shipping. I can't see a reason not to buy it can you all?

c0wb0y84
July 02, 2014, 11:06
Re-blue it and leave it un-modified.

Guy-epic
July 02, 2014, 11:18
Re-blue it and leave it un-modified.

I am having it modified by ruger as it free parts. If I don't i have to find old parts. Also isn't is safer? Not permanently modified just drop in parts and a stamp under the grip. I am going to be the last owner. Why would I not have a transfer bar safety put in? I am all about info.

kev
July 02, 2014, 11:55
Without the improved transfer bar parts the gun can fire if dropped with a round under the hammer. Loading only five and keeping an empty chamber under the hammer makes it 'safe'.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your situation though. When I read it, it sounds like your buddy bought this gun as a beater for cheap and it had already been updated from Ruger? And he stripped the transfer bar parts off of it and wants to sell it to you for cheaper? If that's the case then I would suspect that Ruger has already noted the upgrade(either with a stamp on the gun or by recording the serial)and I wouldn't think they'd replace the parts for free again.

Or did he strip it of the 'old' parts and the gun hasn't yet been upgraded by Ruger?

MAINER
July 02, 2014, 12:59
There is no way on GGE (God's green earth)that I would send a three screw to Ruger for that dumbass transfer bar modification crap!! :redface:


OK, now moving on, heck yes, buy the thing and have it put into shooting order wither 3-screw parts or Transfer type parts. You'll have yourself a good six-shooter in the end for little cost. The mod stamp Ruger puts on the frame lowers the value of the gun quite a bit, but I would not think that a concern to you.
The action will not be as smooth and the trigger pull will be heavier and grittier and of course the "clickkity-clack" sound of cocking the hammer is gone. :sad:
All it takes is a bit of gunslicking of the new parts and good trigger pulls are possible.

A great many dyed in the wool six-gun shooters consider the modification sacrilege, but if you are not one of them, no need to fuss about it. All Ruger Single Actions since 1973 have the new Transfer bar Safety and is the reason I don't own any new Ruger's.

I restored a Ruger Single Six .22 back to original configuration last year and if I hadn't already had some of the parts, it still wouldn't be done. I'm guessing your friend found original parts nearly non-existent as well.

"Dyed in the wool Six-Gunner, proud owner of Colt's and Pre-73 Rugers"
"Five Beans in the wheel" club member. :D

ps: The parts removed are worth more like $150 or so now.

Guy-epic
July 02, 2014, 13:17
Ok sorry for confusion. He has a old flat top Ruger that was converted before they stamped them. He wanted it to be original so he bought this three screw that hasn't been converted by anyone. So he took the parts off of this one and put them on his pistol. Now I can buy the three screw that wasn't modified with plans to send it off to Ruger to instal transfer bar which includes all the other parts he took off of it. I want to shoot cowboy action and yes I feel safer to have the transfer bar safety installed. I feel that it will make a great shooter and as it isn't a perfect gun I am not hurting the value of it. Also I am never likely going to sell this one. I have a 357 lever action rifle that will pair up nicely with it. So what the heck right it's cheap real cheap cool pistol. It would be eve. More cool if it was perfect but then it would be hard to shoot as much as I plan to shoot it. Make sense?

TenTea
July 02, 2014, 13:30
As long as you are sure Ruger will do the *upgrade* gratis, then it is a no-brainer in your situation.

toys
July 02, 2014, 13:55
with Re to the upgrade.

Safety starts with that gray mass between your ears.

no amount of garbage on a gun or anything will keep you safe.

also, you may want to ask SR what will happen to those "unsafe" parts. someone mentioned somewhere else, that those "unsafe" parts will not be returned. Some collectors value un modified guns more than the upgraded ones. If you can get those "unsafe" parts back, it will just help with selling in the future if you choose to.

since its your gun and your $$$ just make an informed decision as to how you want to proceed.

good luck.

Just so you know, many of the shooters in CASS have more than one gun since they will usually have a backup gun(s) jic one craps out.

MAINER
July 02, 2014, 14:13
Make sense?

Perfectly logical to me. I applaud your friend for restoring a Flattop also.

What Ten Tea said, you may want to check under the Trigger guard for a conversion stamp. My Single six has the stamp, but has been restored to original pre-73 configuration, so I don't think Ruger would do it again without charging for the parts and work.

Also, you might check with Ruger CS to see if they will do the work on a Three screw sent in without the original firing parts. I don't see this as a problem because they used to return the original parts after the mod

If you have a problem With Ruger about this, I think I have the conversion parts you need if necessary.

Guy-epic
July 02, 2014, 15:02
Perfectly logical to me. I applaud your friend for restoring a Flattop also.

What Ten Tea said, you may want to check under the Trigger guard for a conversion stamp. My Single six has the stamp, but has been restored to original pre-73 configuration, so I don't think Ruger would do it again without charging for the parts and work.

Also, you might check with Ruger CS to see if they will do the work on a Three screw sent in without the original firing parts. I don't see this as a problem because they used to return the original parts after the mod

If you have a problem With Ruger about this, I think I have the conversion parts you need if necessary.

I checked with Ruger and they even said if you feel better about it send it in with out the parts. So safe there. Second thing no stamp and yes I also called to verify with them they are sending me the shipping directions as we speak. It is a go. But I would prefer to not have it stamped or on the books as converted so PM on its way about parts. Thanks guys and yes I know the safety starts with that heavy thing between the ears. I just have made mistakes in the past trying to go to fast. Yep I admit it I screwed up a few times trying to speed draw in a competition and I am not the only one. Maybe the only one to admit I was a idiot for trying to go faster then I can. It happened at a IPSC match infract it is the start of why I stopped shooting in it. I saw more and more people having close calls and then a bullet to the thigh! Yep right thru the bone! So I have decided to slow down in my old age and have some fun. Lastly you need two pistols to shoot cowboy action. My plan is to get a Bisley and so I will be all set up with all 357's and a shotgun. In fact I am shooting the last of my three guns this summer and switching to Cowboy action. I will still do a three gun for fun. Just tired of the tacticool commandos that are coming more and more. They don't understand what a AK is. It's a joke! Also I met my local chapter and they seem to be pretty cool so time to pick out a name.

W.E.G.
July 02, 2014, 15:49
Good on you for bringing an old Ruger back into action.

Skeeter would approve.


I resurrected one that I bought from an estate with no cylinder. The old fella who owned it probably hadn't been acting right, so somebody must have "made it safe" by removing (and losing) the cylinder.

I managed to scare one up.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/AlanHartonletter.jpg



http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Ruger%20Blackhawk%20357/357rightsidesmaller.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/pistol%20pics/Ruger%20Blackhawk%20357/2011-10-23-target.jpg

W.E.G.
July 02, 2014, 15:51
If you don't want to deal with Ruger, there are others who can do as-good, or better work on the relics.

Guy-epic
July 02, 2014, 16:15
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14559984202_975108a445.jpg

I found a picture my buddy sent me of it before he pulled off parts and stripped that awesome camo paint job. I know you guys are jealous of that camo. I know there are guys that can fix it, intact I was there when my friend put the parts in his flat top not hard to do. Only real reason to send to ruger is I can't beat the price.

MAINER
July 03, 2014, 15:42
Guy, sorry about the parts being for a Single Six, couldn't remember which set I had until I found them. Not sure they would work on a Blackhawk although many of them do.

There is a name for "fast draw" SA shooters,... Limpy. :D
There were a lot of "Limpy's" in So. Cal in the 60's until they switched to blanks and electronic timers.
I was taught by a guy that could draw, fire and bust a balloon in .24 sec. A guy named Thell Reed kicked everybody's ass doing it in .10 sec. :redface:
I gave up my aspirations of becoming a hot shot pistolero when I put a 250 grain .44 slug in the dirt right next to my favorite right foot.

The target style rear sight of the Blackhawk doesn't lend itself to fast draw, I cut my thumb on the sight leaf too many times and bought a Colt.

I don't think Ruger will do your conversion without stamping the frame, but worth a try asking.

Guy-epic
July 03, 2014, 15:58
Guy, sorry about the parts being for a Single Six, couldn't remember which set I had until I found them. Not sure they would work on a Blackhawk although many of them do.

There is a name for "fast draw" SA shooters,... Limpy. :D
There were a lot of "Limpy's" in So. Cal in the 60's until they switched to blanks and electronic timers.
I was taught by a guy that could draw, fire and bust a balloon in .24 sec. A guy named Thell Reed kicked everybody's ass doing it in .10 sec. :redface:
I gave up my aspirations of becoming a hot shot pistolero when I put a 250 grain .44 slug in the dirt right next to my favorite right foot.

The target style rear sight of the Blackhawk doesn't lend itself to fast draw, I cut my thumb on the sight leaf too many times and bought a Colt.

I don't think Ruger will do your conversion without stamping the frame, but worth a try asking.

Ya I have asked they said no! And closed for a week now.
Do you have a not so favorite right foot? Just kidding I guess better in the dirt then in the timers left foot. I heard about that happening at a three gun shoot I was to attend, I came down with the flu and missed all the fun. I didn't know either guy but they were both new and none of my friends have ever seen them at a match since. Hmm I wonder why?
The rear sight is a issue. They make a cool sight I saw on a guys pistol not sure if he bought it or made it. But think ghost ring. Hist was great and he said it made him a lot faster. As we know speed is the name of the game.

12v71
July 03, 2014, 21:25
Myself. I would leave it as is. I did a bunch of steel silhouette matches in the early 80s with an unconverted Super Blackhawk .44 and loved the trigger. But we were only shooting 5 round stages anyway. JMO

Guy-epic
July 04, 2014, 12:58
Myself. I would leave it as is. I did a bunch of steel silhouette matches in the early 80s with an unconverted Super Blackhawk .44 and loved the trigger. But we were only shooting 5 round stages anyway. JMO

I would be ok with it not being converted but as I am buying it with out those parts, and used parts are $100 to $200 plus not really a great idea IMO to shoot six rounds as they do in current SASS & CAS it will be the cheapest way to get in and compete. Trust me I still have more guns to buy I am on a budget, but I do have a gunsmith friend / sponsor. So all my slick action work I just found out is free. Just add parts, and he has modified some hammers that are crazy wide and at a angle that you want. He makes it wider and kicks it back and down. This gets it away from the sights and shortens the stroke. Thanks guys I get it tomorrow and will post more pics then off to ruger

Timber Wolf
July 05, 2014, 10:10
There is no way on GGE (God's green earth)that I would send a three screw to Ruger for that dumbass transfer bar modification crap!! :redface:

+1, but if I were in the OP's shoes I would probably do whatever gets it in the game as cheaply (and safely) as possible. My only 3 screw, in .30 Carbine, will never go back while I own it. But it is just a for-fun blaster anyway.:wink:

MAINER
July 05, 2014, 10:30
+1, but if I were in the OP's shoes I would probably do whatever gets it in the game as cheaply (and safely) as possible. My only 3 screw, in .30 Carbine, will never go back while I own it. But it is just a for-fun blaster anyway.:wink:

Ya didn't read the 2nd paragraph, did'ya? :D

It's a definite buy, and Guy is getting into the SA game with a great revolver for a very low price.

I have a .357 in the same configuration as the one in WEG's pic and it remains unmolested.
A .30 Carbie would be interesting, but the supply of cheap ammo is no more. I would think the collectors would like to get their filthy paws on that. They keep bugging me about my .44 Flattop, in vain. :wink:

Wildcat
July 05, 2014, 13:59
I would be ok with it not being converted but as I am buying it with out those parts, and used parts are $100 to $200 plus not really a great idea IMO to shoot six rounds as they do in current SASS & CAS it will be the cheapest way to get in and compete.

If the gun is in good working order today, I'd leave it alone for a while to figure out what really needs to be done to it.

The transfer bar linkage in the gun does simplify the loading procedure slightly since you don't have to touch the hammer at all to manipulate the cylinder.
The transfer bar can be a source of stoppage if the cylinder pin isn't seated. The transfer bars have been known to break which is one reason people remove the bars and have their hammers welded up.

The way I understand it, SASS won't let you load a six-gun with more than five rounds.

Talk to someone who knows single-actions and they can give you some hints.

An uncle told me with the gun on half-cock you load one round, skip a chamber, then load four more rounds into the cylinder. That way, when the hammer is drawn back and lowered, it comes to rest on the empty chamber.

Guy-epic
July 08, 2014, 12:11
So I didn't know as I am just getting into SASS you only load five rounds. The thing is yes ruger maybe monkeys, but as soon as they are done it goes in to my gunsmith to be all slicked up for action, I have concluded I will not be in this game for a few months. If I had the original parts I would think about keeping it stock, but I don't and Rutgers are free, any mistakes can and will be fixed not worried about that. If you have a stock hammer and trigger you want to donate I will put it in.

MAINER
July 08, 2014, 14:27
Nice try! :rofl:

That would be a $165 donation if the set on ebay is any indication of todays prices.

SASS allow "slip-firing"? I wish SASS shooting was around when I live in Cali. We did "Quick draw" and "Walk and draw" for SA shooters. I got bored with that pretty quick. I like shooting full power loads, not something that barely gets to the target. APS is the rule that works.

Guy-epic
July 08, 2014, 17:31
Nice try! :rofl:

That would be a $165 donation if the set on ebay is any indication of todays prices.

SASS allow "slip-firing"? I wish SASS shooting was around when I live in Cali. We did "Quick draw" and "Walk and draw" for SA shooters. I got bored with that pretty quick. I like shooting full power loads, not something that barely gets to the target. APS is the rule that works.

Those are super black hawks on eBay. If they are the ones I am thinking of two sets on the sure I know the owner of one. But what is the APS rule?

12v71
July 08, 2014, 20:53
Guy just curious, since you're in the SASS loop do we still have any events in the Wenatchee/Quincy area? I went to one in Quincy around 2007? just to spectate. looked like a little bit of fun.

Guy-epic
July 08, 2014, 21:01
Guy just curious, since you're in the SASS loop do we still have any events in the Wenatchee/Quincy area? I went to one in Quincy around 2007? just to spectate. looked like a little bit of fun.

Oh I am just getting started but yes there is a local SASS club over there a few around you

MAINER
July 09, 2014, 09:00
Those are super black hawks on eBay. If they are the ones I am thinking of two sets on the sure I know the owner of one. But what is the APS rule?

Rule for combat shooters in order of priority, (A)ccuracy-(P)ower-(S)peed.
This type shooting was popular at the Gun Clubs I shot at in Cali. I was military at the time and this was more useful to me. I learned a few things from the gee-whiz guys and put it to good use. Didn't get up to gee-whiz level myself, not enough time or money to play.

Guy-epic
July 09, 2014, 11:36
Rule for combat shooters in order of priority, (A)ccuracy-(P)ower-(S)peed.
This type shooting was popular at the Gun Clubs I shot at in Cali. I was military at the time and this was more useful to me. I learned a few things from the gee-whiz guys and put it to good use. Didn't get up to gee-whiz level myself, not enough time or money to play.

I think I can agree with th concept of APS to a extent. I think power and speed can work off each other. No matter how good you are, if you shoot 9mm vs 45acp the 9mm times should be faster. Now there is nothing wrong with 9mm, I shot 45acp in IPSC. I kept up with some of the 9mm guys, but then the super 38 became the craze. I shot one and I knew then I was done. I was able to tweak a few things and beat my average in a few mags. In competition shooting there is a balance between power and speed. Things may have changed in IPSC and it should IMO. As I wasn't going to build a race gun to just shoot fast. I carried my gun I shoot in competition. Why wouldn't I? I shot it better then anything else. I am moving into SASS for the family fun. They have a great youth program.

MAINER
July 09, 2014, 15:22
I was always on the lookout for a 38 Super, but it eluded me. The few I did find were pristine collector stuff or super duper accuracized race guns.

I would like to attend the SASS shoots. They look like a lot of fun for a family to go to. Might run into "Evil Roy" and get some parts for my Uberti .45 Colt. :smile:

Guy-epic
July 10, 2014, 11:00
I was always on the lookout for a 38 Super, but it eluded me. The few I did find were pristine collector stuff or super duper accuracized race guns.

I would like to attend the SASS shoots. They look like a lot of fun for a family to go to. Might run into "Evil Roy" and get some parts for my Uberti .45 Colt. :smile:

Oh I would of loved a super 38, but I kinda felt like it was cheating as they are a step up from a .22! Let's face it shooting a 1911 with super 38. Is like putting the .22 conversion in a FAL. It just doesn't seem right. The 9mn high power guys were getting fast, then the 1911 9mm guys. But the super 38 all set up for race. You just can't keep up with what they can do. They stay on target, transition very fast. With longer slides, extended sights, compensators, lead weights on the base of mags to get them to fall faster, yes I remember a guy that poured custom bases for mags out of lead which was kinda neat as they flew out of the bottom of the pistol, and the lead provided a softer floor hitting spot, and if damaged they were cheap to replace and or pour old ones into new ones. I started to work with a friend on loads for 45acp that was less recoil, and still held a nice zero, but ya just was much more then a harder hitting 9mm. I am not a reloader just a shooter that was luck enuff to work with a guy that need help testing ammo. Ultimately I just stopped, I was going to the range everyday after working many hours. I had no life outside of work and range.

MAINER
July 10, 2014, 14:40
Super 38 or 38 Super?

Same cartridge?

I always thought the 38 Super to be a hot-shot round, 130gr bullet going 1300fps, capable of penetrating car bodies and bad guys with bullet proof vests as well.

I was badly influenced in my younger years by a gun scribe named Skeeter, and one of his yarns was about the 38 Super. Skeet said the cartridge was popular with Law Officers in the old days when it came out. Never lucked out with the Super, but I did follow Skeeters advice and got myself a S&W wheelgun in .44 Special. Almost had a Colt Model P in the same caliber, but that is too sad a story to tell. :cry:

Guy-epic
July 12, 2014, 12:17
Super 38 or 38 Super?

Same cartridge?

I always thought the 38 Super to be a hot-shot round, 130gr bullet going 1300fps, capable of penetrating car bodies and bad guys with bullet proof vests as well.

I was badly influenced in my younger years by a gun scribe named Skeeter, and one of his yarns was about the 38 Super. Skeet said the cartridge was popular with Law Officers in the old days when it came out. Never lucked out with the Super, but I did follow Skeeters advice and got myself a S&W wheelgun in .44 Special. Almost had a Colt Model P in the same caliber, but that is too sad a story to tell. :cry:


I have often thought about a 44 special as it has a huge range of loads, my only problem is I think you load a 44 mag. To basically get the same results. With all the different powders to choose from. It's a hard decision. I think if I were to do a 44 special I would take a beat up 357 and convert it to 44 special as many did back when I wasn't even born. I have seen tigers done this way and it seems fun. As for 38 super or super 38 I think they are one in the same? Started as the 38acp and was later turned into 38 super? The early 1900's everyone was ripping off each other. I think a old browning 38 would be fun.

Guy-epic
July 27, 2014, 14:34
So I found all the parts to covert it my self for $50. Which is about $35 less then shipping to Ruger. I am going to keep an eye out for the parts to put it back to pre safety as well just to have.

c0wb0y84
July 27, 2014, 18:55
Sounds like a good plan. I know you said you were gonna cold blue it, did you decide which product you're gonna use?

Guy-epic
July 29, 2014, 10:09
Sounds like a good plan. I know you said you were gonna cold blue it, did you decide which product you're gonna use?

Not yet I will have a gunsmith go thru it first