View Full Version : Just out of curiosity

May 23, 2014, 20:03
Okay, I posted this on another forum and I don't think most people read the question as I got a lot of answers that had nothing to do with my question. So first a couple of clarifications:
I do not have, nor will I ever buy one.
I have read the regulations and cannot find the answer.
Yes, I know it is a very stiff felony to do this.
Don't want one, just a question.
Why would you want that....see #1 and 4.

Now for the question. If you take a Rossi Ranch hand, how much longer can you extend the "butt stock" and NOT make it a SBR? Again, don't have one, won't get one, just a good example for my question. If you add a recoil pad, thereby increasing the length by approx 1/2" to 3/4", will that then make it a SBR? I understand you can't put a "full length" butt stock on it, but what constitutes a "full length" butt stock? Thanks in advance and remember this is purely hypothetical, not to be done, not to be considered, not a future project, haven't done it, don't know anyone who has, I know the penalties, etc. etc. etc. This is just a question similar to when does a pebble become a rock!:)

May 23, 2014, 21:07
If you just want an opinion, I would say you can't add any length.
The ATF approved it as is, and it isn't intended to be shouldered.

May 23, 2014, 22:25
The Ranch Hand is listed as 23-3/4 " long.
If the length was changed to 26" or more, it would most likely be considered a SBR.

Lengthening the stock at all might be construed as constructive intent.

$ .02


May 24, 2014, 03:58
According to the BATF, if you modify the weapon in any way, you have taken from its original category and placed it into the a new category. If the BATF approved weapon has a length of 23.75", then changing the length is a modification to the weapon and it will no longer be considered in its original class and it will be in a different class. This a very grey area and one into which you do not want to tread unless you have lots of money for legal fees.

May 24, 2014, 11:20
The reason it was classified as a pistol is that ATF took the view that it 'was not intended to be fired from the shoulder'. I would assume that if you made any modifications that appeared to enhance it's ability 'to be fired from the shoulder' you will have created an illegal SBR.

FWIW, my opinion is that ATF mis-classified it from the start. It's certainly possible to fire it from the shoulder so I believe it's technically a rifle(SBR). The definition of 'pistol' requires that it be intended to be fired from one hand and it's obviously not intended to be fired with one hand. Intended to be fired with two hands, without a buttstock would make it an AOW. As-is it's as grey as can be,.............I wouldn't want one. I definitely would not go modifying one.

All my opinion and I am not going to write to ATF for a clarification. It's just fine by me if they want to be wrong,..............but I'll put money down saying that they'll reverse their position sooner or later. Same with the SIG 'arm brace'. They know who bought them and they'll eventually collect them(and the list of names).

May 24, 2014, 14:18
Thanks for the answers. They were similar to what I was thinking. Still not sure why anyone would want one, I have shot one and it is the most ungainly, awkward thing I have ever shot. That being said, it would be sort of neat to have one and put a regular butt stock on it and get it properly licensed as an SBR.:D