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Stoney
April 18, 2014, 22:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyBDEG9dg-Q

martin35
April 18, 2014, 23:22
Any thing you have to use your bed sheets to stop looks like a risky proposition to me and deciding which side is up at the last moment is no a confidence builder either.

Pistolwiz
April 18, 2014, 23:31
Definitely not done with the wingtip tanks on. Even empty. Nice stunt. Very ballsy........

Slo cat
April 18, 2014, 23:34
There is a F-104 on a stick outside the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Paterson AFB in Dayton, OH.

The Germans adopted this plane and later called it Die Fenstermacher. (the widow maker). Primarily because they tried to make it an all-weather, do anything fighter, while it was designed as an interceptor.

Still one of the most cool looking fighters designed during that era.

0302
April 19, 2014, 00:01
how about some low passes
http://www.military.com/video/aircraft/jet-fighters/10-thrilling-jet-fighter-low-passes/2748312014001/

moonbat60
April 19, 2014, 01:43
There is a F-104 on a stick outside the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Paterson AFB in Dayton, OH.

The Germans adopted this plane and later called it Die Fenstermacher. (the widow maker). Primarily because they tried to make it an all-weather, do anything fighter, while it was designed as an interceptor.

Still one of the most cool looking fighters designed during that era.

Slo cat, actually the Germans called it the Witwenmacher. Fenster in German language means window in the English language.

AMHIK, lol.

SWOHFAL
April 19, 2014, 03:06
There is a F-104 on a stick outside the US Air Force Museum at Wright-Paterson AFB in Dayton, OH.

The Germans adopted this plane and later called it Die Fenstermacher. (the widow maker). Primarily because they tried to make it an all-weather, do anything fighter, while it was designed as an interceptor.

Still one of the most cool looking fighters designed during that era.

Also called "Erdnagel," or tent stake. Erich Hartmann hated them.

moonbat60
April 19, 2014, 05:17
In reference to SWOHFAL's post, that's true as well.

Erich Hartmann hated them for a reason, and he had more than enough experience, being the world's most successful fighter pilot.

The F-104 got into the Bundesluftwaffe because of political reasons, among them
"donations" to certain German politicians.

The F-104 never could really fulfill all those roles that were planned / intended for it. It was also not meant for low level ground hugging flying.

djginwis
April 19, 2014, 08:57
Off topic, but my favorite low pass video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w

SWOHFAL
April 19, 2014, 16:05
Off topic, but my favorite low pass video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w

Same pilot, probably the same plane:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Xf3UtmHLKUU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stoney
April 19, 2014, 16:18
from the mini series"piece of cake"

C2A1
April 19, 2014, 16:35
Use to watch the germans training at Luke AFB, AZ in the 104. J79 in full afterburner could be heard from a long ways. They had a shuttle sim flight in Florida until recently using a TF-104. Head out over the atlantic go to mach 2.0 and pull up to 60,000 feet, throttle back and head home. I asked my wife for a birthday present (Not!) Last missions were flown by the F-104S by the Italians in Desert one. Italians didn't have the loss rate of the germans which may be weather related.
I've talked to pilot that have flown the century series. The 104 was a pilots airplane. You put it on and bonded. If you didn't you died. Of that century series the super hottie was the 106. Until it was retired it would win the william tell competitions even against F15s. I talked to one pilot and he said you could take it to 60,000 ft and fly along. There are two in El Paso, Tx owned by a guy with an F-100 and a real F5. The 106 gets flown under govt. contract.

FAL4EVER
April 19, 2014, 16:39
Brings back childhood memories of Starfighters coming over. Pilots seemed to make it a sport to break the sound barrier. First time scared the crap out of me.

Poccur
April 19, 2014, 19:31
Then they lengthened the wings and the F-104 became the U2...

Cool film...

Mark IV
April 19, 2014, 22:04
ANYBODY can do that!

Hey Stoney, you old enough to remember when TV actually used to sign off at night and they would show an F-104 with a fellow narrating the "High Flight" poem?


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IoL-KCFbIpA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

georgeg
April 20, 2014, 21:49
I saw this pilot practice the manouver at Aviano in 1969. He didn't quite get the wheels on the ground the second time but was very close on the attempt that I saw. This ranks up with the most remarkable flying I've ever seen.. The only other thing that was even close was an Italian pilot spinning a Macchi MB326 and landing out of the recovery.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyBDEG9dg-Q

C2A1
April 21, 2014, 09:34
Wow, I remember those sign offs! Real blast from the past.

ExCdnSoldierInTx
April 21, 2014, 20:23
I was posted to Lahr when they flew 104s around the clock. I was used to seeing the 101s blast off on some intercept loaded with Genies and whatever else they hung off those things.
Seeing those 104s blasting off with iron bombs underneath really freaked me out.
Every month it seemed, some Luftwaffe or Canadian stuck one in somewhere in Germany.
I never understood how the hell they could make a go fast in a straight line interceptor into a close support bomber.

perryturner
April 21, 2014, 21:19
My father worked at Convair in Ft. Worth. When visiting, we would sit on the end of the Convair-Carswell runway and watch takeoffs of all kinds of planes. Around 1960, F-104s were used as chase planes for the B-58s built there. Pretty impressive to a 14 y/o.

Enquiring Minds
April 25, 2014, 10:43
B-58 Hustler = FOUR o' them thar J-79s (yes, WITH the afterburners) on a mondo DELTA wing... SCHWING!!! :bow:

Thorack
April 25, 2014, 20:22
Yeah,

My Dad was not a big fan, he had pronounce dead and search for the remains of an F-104 pilot that slammed into a hill side during a Reforger in the late 70's.

Thorack

riffraff2
April 25, 2014, 21:35
B-58 Hustler = FOUR o' them thar J-79s (yes, WITH the afterburners) on a mondo DELTA wing... SCHWING!!! :bow:



Not quite. The J-79's on the B-58 had special/unique 4 STAGE afterburners. Nothing else like them on anything else.

Col. Bat Guano
April 26, 2014, 00:49
My father worked at Convair in Ft. Worth. When visiting, we would sit on the end of the Convair-Carswell runway and watch takeoffs of all kinds of planes. Around 1960, F-104s were used as chase planes for the B-58s built there. Pretty impressive to a 14 y/o.

I think that would be pretty impressive at any age. I've always liked the 104's -- throwing the Hustler into the mix would be the cat's ass!

Enquiring Minds
April 26, 2014, 12:35
Not quite. The J-79's on the B-58 had special/unique 4 STAGE afterburners. Nothing else like them on anything else.

Because they were STRATEGIC (i.e. "nuke-ya-lar") Air Command, even parameters like FUEL CONSUMPTION were "classified"... but you can guesstimate. :eek: OTOH, during its heyday, bulk JP-4 was about 14 cents/gal. Double SCHWING!!

4 brigada
April 29, 2014, 20:41
Really nothing wrong with the F-104, outstanding aircraft. Problems with it became the sale, lots of corruption on that deal. The Luftwaffe didn't fly them as point interceptors they were tasked as multi role. I was on USAFE airbases when the F-104s carried out mock attacks. As with all single engine aircraft when it quits you know your walking home. The main reason it was called a widowmaker was the downward firing ejection system after it was changed to Martin Baker seats low altitude ejections became more survivable

Pistolwiz
April 30, 2014, 11:36
Yeah,

My Dad was not a big fan, he had pronounce dead and search for the remains of an F-104 pilot that slammed into a hill side during a Reforger in the late 70's.

Thorack

I've picked up two smoking holes. Both were A7's. The pilots didn't make it out in time on both. Brutal..........

Back in the 50's and 60's speed ruled. It was about how fast you can make it to the target. Hitting the target consistently was a whole 'nother issue. Unguided bombs aren't very accurate delivered at high speed at any altitude. Too many variables. That's why we had to use mass formations to destroy a target in WW2. Not to mention the protection afforded by having mass numbers of bombers loaded with more Ma Deuces than you can shake a barrel glove at.

A lot of mistakes were made in the 50's and 60's concerning how to use high speed aircraft. The speeds were beyond what could be used effectively. The Mach2+ fighters like the F104 were originally designed to intercept high speed, high altitude nuclear bombers. The F104 also had a Vulcan 20mm Gatling gun. One of the few century series fighters that came with a gun originally.

The guns were not designed into many century series fighters. They used missiles only until they finally figured out that if you're gonna dogfight you need a gun for close in fighting with maneuverable subsonic Migs like the Mig17. Not to mention the fact that the longer range sparrow AA missile was very unreliable in its early years.

The F104 was one of the most beautiful, sleekest fighters ever made. A real heart stopper if you're into aircraft. But its overall performance was limited. Fly fast and high. Shoot down bombers and go home. Trying to get a 104 to act like a tactical bomber was not a high spot in military aircraft history. Very high wing loading. Not very maneuverable. Limited range without hanging a lot of external fuel. Wingtip tanks really killed maneuverability. Do a bunch of rolls at low level with WT's on you'll probably be a smoking hole.

Root66
April 30, 2014, 14:46
Speaking of the Luftwaffe F-104, here's a drag chute safety pin streamer from one...only F-104 piece in my collection.