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zetabird
April 01, 2014, 10:09
well i finaly found my donor mauser its an old nasty turk that i picked up at the gunshow for 100 bucks, the action is good and the stock is salvageable but the barrel is shot, veary badly pitted and possibly bent a tiny bit. ill be using a rhineland kit that im going to order next weekend hopfully, with the stock it has now shortend to fit the barrel. not sure if im gonna use the iron sights that are on it now but im having the barrel threaded for suppression. and it may get scoped with a low power scope. ill throw some pictures up after work today. but i figured id put this up here seeing as there isnet a whole lot of activity in the bolt forum

357ross
April 01, 2014, 11:17
I am considering the exact same thing, I'll watch this thread for your progress.

zetabird
April 01, 2014, 13:02
cool the first reply wasent calling me a heritic or something for "bubbaing" a historic thingamabob, ill make sure to keep up on the updates

fnogger
April 01, 2014, 14:25
Is rhineland doing these conversion kits again? I had a spanish mauser (small ring) in 308 that I was going to do this to... saved my nickels and dimes, finally had the $$ to spare to order the kit, and found out they had stopped making them and sold the last one they had a few weeks prior... :(

If'n you are gonna put a can on it, you may as well SBR it as well....

zetabird
April 01, 2014, 14:37
yup i got an email from him yesterday and he has the small ring kits in stock i was checking becuse my turk is large ring with a small ring barrel, i thought about sbr but i want to keep the mil stock

stickp
April 01, 2014, 14:47
I'm calling heretic, but .... I also have an old Turk mauser and have thinking of something similar so this really interests me. Be sure and get plenty of pics.:)

zetabird
April 01, 2014, 15:14
will do im gonna take it back apart tonight and try to fix some of the cracks in the stock and clean the trigger up its really gritty, ill just polish it up no sanding or griniding

tdb59
April 01, 2014, 16:46
If anyone is interested, I have 2 '95 (antique) small ring Mauser actions for sale that would work well for this kind of project.
$ 60.00 each, shipped.

No longer available.


;)

Artful
April 01, 2014, 22:04
Pistol caliber carbines are very fun shooters.
I did my conversion on Mk4 Enfield cause Rhineland wasn't available but Special Interest Arms kits were.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/SMLE45SIAConversion_zpsd36e4ef1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/SMLE45SIAConversion_zpsd36e4ef1.jpg.html)

zetabird
April 02, 2014, 06:56
the delesle carbine is actualy got me wanting to build one like it.

zetabird
April 02, 2014, 09:28
i spent last night gluing the cracks in the stock, cleaning up the trigger to get rid of the grit. and i had to turn the recoil lug over it was in upside down ill try to put it back together and get some pictures now that it dosent look like it sat in a watering trough for a few years

croftonaviation
April 02, 2014, 14:33
Not to hijack this thread, but....

I am a huge fan of the pistol caliber carbine and have longed for one in .45 acp. Thanks to the op for posting, I had no idea this thing even existed.

Now some questions to those more knowledgable than I.

1. Is a synthetic stock available for the small ring mausers?
2. How hard is it to set one of these up for a red dot?
3. Do they shoot cast bullets ok?

Thanks

Tom

zgunbear
April 02, 2014, 15:53
I built one of the Rhineland kits and gave it to my dad, he is a 1911 guy. I set it up with a scout scope set up. He just went shooting and shot a one hole group at 30 yards. Sorry I don't have pictures.

Artful
April 02, 2014, 15:55
1) Ramline, Champion and other have small ring mauser stocks available.
2) This depends upon what your trying to set up... but yep red-dot's are doable.
http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/centurion_1.jpg
3) shoot cast bullets fine depending upon your load and the gun

zetabird
April 03, 2014, 08:19
Not to hijack this thread, but....

I am a huge fan of the pistol caliber carbine and have longed for one in .45 acp. Thanks to the op for posting, I had no idea this thing even existed.

Now some questions to those more knowledgable than I.

1. Is a synthetic stock available for the small ring mausers?
2. How hard is it to set one of these up for a red dot?
3. Do they shoot cast bullets ok?

Thanks

Tom
from the looks so far putting a dot on it would be fairly easy, and dont feel bad about jacking this thread any info about .45 bolt guns is welcome mabey this will be a running thing

D. Short
April 08, 2014, 19:12
OK, this is going to date me, but does anyone remember when you could buy all the Turk Mausers you wanted for 39 bucks a pop!? If only I could get that time machine up and running...

In any event, many moons ago I got excited about the Rhineland conversion. The funds weren't available at the time, and I had kinda forgotten about it. Now this thread comes along, and I am ready to jump onboard. It's just that the vast numbers of cheap actions/rifles seem to have dried up. Besides the gun shows, any other ideas on where to find an inexpensive action/rifle?

SAFN49
April 08, 2014, 19:33
OK, this is going to date me, but does anyone remember when you could buy all the Turk Mausers you wanted for 39 bucks a pop!? If only I could get that time machine up and running...

In any event, many moons ago I got excited about the Rhineland conversion. The funds weren't available at the time, and I had kinda forgotten about it. Now this thread comes along, and I am ready to jump onboard. It's just that the vast numbers of cheap actions/rifles seem to have dried up. Besides the gun shows, any other ideas on where to find an inexpensive action/rifle?

See post #8 ^^^^

SAFN49
April 08, 2014, 19:39
This thread brought back memories of pistol cal bolt action carbines. Years ago I had a couple of destroyer carbines. I think I paid $90 or $100 each max.
They were fun and ammo was cheap. I just looked on GB and they are going for ~$500.

D. Short
April 08, 2014, 21:05
Yes, I talked with TDB and got pictures. They are nice receivers with bolts. By the time I added trigger guard, trigger, bolt stop, floor plate, ....it was going to be $100.00 and change. And I am an old cheapskate who was hoping to get something for less than that...

SAFN49
April 08, 2014, 23:13
about the cheapest way to go now is find a piece of crap Mauser on Gun Broker. I saw a Siamese or Turk on there go for less than a hundred. The days of cheap surplus anything are long gone. Even the Mosins a few years ago that used to be < $60 are now $175+.

Andy the Aussie
April 09, 2014, 00:47
I did an FN made Mauser (was in /06) into a .45acp using a Rhineland kit... it is a neat little rifle and interesting concept. Probably would come really into its own with a can..!!

zetabird
April 09, 2014, 09:20
that is the goal andy id love to suppress it eventually, before i put the barrel on the action im taking it to a local smith to have it threaded, then ill prolly just run a thread protector or flash supressor till i get my stamp. im still trying to get my pictures up tonight i keep forgetting about it been a busy week lol

BubbaTheKid
April 09, 2014, 09:51
I love this place. and. God dammit! Now I am looking for a Mauser too...

zetabird
April 09, 2014, 10:18
haha ya it sounds lie a fun project i just hope i can get mine ordered before you all buy them up, it took me like 2 years of gunshows and pawn shops before i found the turk

Andy the Aussie
April 09, 2014, 14:46
I bought my donor Mauser for $60..... but I was 14 at the time....I am NOT 14 any more... ;) ;)

zetabird
April 09, 2014, 22:39
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/zetabird/Mobile%20Uploads/20140409_232917_zpscxwtb2b6.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/zetabird/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140409_232917_zpscxwtb2b6.jpg.html)
well heres mine im gonna refiish it and shorten the stock for the 16 inch barrel I cleaned qnd polished the trigger a bit as well

zetabird
April 09, 2014, 22:40
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/zetabird/Mobile%20Uploads/20140409_232924_zpsfomryawe.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/zetabird/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140409_232924_zpsfomryawe.jpg.html)

Peconga
April 10, 2014, 02:46
That's actually a pretty rare Turk you have there. It's an Oberndorf Model 1903 Short Rifle with the "high hump" stripper clip guide and turned-down bolt handle with pear-shaped knob. The Turkish M.1903 was an Intermediate length M.1898 action with large receiver ring and small barrel shank, similar to the Peruvian M.1903 and commercial Mauser Oberndorf sporters used by Rigby and other British custom makers. The Intermediate action has a longer front receiver ring and shorter bolt body than a standard Model 1898, so parts generally do not interchange with other Turkish 98s. The Turkish M.1903 was originally issued in 7.65x53 and later upgraded to 8x57S with spitzer bullets, hence the notch cut into the top of the front ring to allow clearance for the longer cartridge.

Anyway, it seems to me that the early Mauser variations like the Model 1891, 1893 and 1895 would be excellent choices for a pistol caliber conversion, since they are plenty strong and much cheaper than Model 98 actions. Also a little bit lighter and more trim, although they are all cock-on-closing if that matters. The early Mausers were all exquisitely made, and as a bonus many are pre-1899 manufacture so qualify as an Antique. In particular, I wonder if the Argentine 1891 would be a good choice since the protruding fixed magazine looks like it would be just about right for a holding a single-stack 1911 magazine (either standard or extended capacity).
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/573/9523901/img_1729.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

zetabird
April 10, 2014, 06:47
ok, didnt know this was a rare one and the guy i bought it from didnt know anything about it eather. i did know that it used a small shank barrel. is the magazine/trigger guard in it the same as a standard mauser? i still want to go ahead with my conversion with it

zetabird
April 10, 2014, 07:17
and mounting a scope rail on it with that humps prolly gonna be difficult isent it i may just stick with the irons on this one tho

SAFN49
April 10, 2014, 09:16
Here's a candidate Nice stock!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=408501136

Not mine btw

zetabird
April 11, 2014, 13:45
well i just ordered my rihnland kit well see how this goes i cant wait to get my hands on it lol, first ill have the front shoulder turned back so it can be threaded and still use the stock front sight

packratt
April 13, 2014, 20:23
Has anyone shot one of these over a chronograph? Be interesting to see how the 16" barrel compares to a 5" 1911

Artful
April 14, 2014, 00:02
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html
230 Hydroshock factory ammo
994 fps in 16" barrel
895 fps in 5" barrel

Corbon 185gr +P
1362 in 16" barrel
1149 in 5" barrel

zetabird
April 16, 2014, 12:31
well the kit showed up today, the barrels got some turning marks that need cleaned up but not a big deal, the ejector and mag block look good, gonna start the take down and fitting tonight, wish me luck on that barrel

SAFN49
April 16, 2014, 17:04
Here's another good candidate if any one is looking for one.
Looks like a small ring Spanish. Not Mine.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=410612878

Wecsogery
April 17, 2014, 02:44
I've looked at those Rhineland kits a few times in the past. I have a DWM '95 action that I would like to convert. I might just try building my own kit instead of buying the Rhineland.

zetabird
April 17, 2014, 06:52
well the apparently the turkest iront sights are different and wont fit the barrel but thats ok the rear was buggered up anyway so im prolly gonna run without, i brought it in to work so i could use the lathe to turn down the stock barrels shoulder to relive pressure that way it comes off easier.

Andy the Aussie
April 19, 2014, 23:46
Just got some batteries for the Pro-Point, once I am happy it is shooting OK I will blast and Cerkote it all. They make a neat toy :D

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Andy_the_Aussie/Guns/FNMauser45ACP_zpsf45b83e0.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Andy_the_Aussie/media/Guns/FNMauser45ACP_zpsf45b83e0.jpg.html)

zetabird
April 21, 2014, 07:57
ill tell ya im having a hell of a time getting it to thread into the reciever, at firts it was one thread but after cleaning the ring real well and the bareel it goes in 4 or 5 threads then gets really really hard to turn.

nearmisses
April 21, 2014, 13:56
How about some pictures of the receiver threads and barrel threads. You might need the barrel threads chased a might. What condition is the inside ring, from the barrel end? Any depression?

zetabird
April 22, 2014, 06:51
got the barrel on just took alittle bit of valve lapping compound and 20 mins working it in and out...heh.. but it fits now to fit the extractor and ejector and my mag relese and mag adapter needs pinned in then head spacing and its shootable. ill take some pictures tonight to put up

zetabird
April 23, 2014, 09:20
after some more fitting and grinding its almost done, just gotta headspace and pin the mag adapter in. oh and i need the little pin screw thing that holds the 1911 mag catch in i kinda forgot to order it with the new catch, http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/zetabird/Mobile%20Uploads/20140422_185455_zpsafuva9pj.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/zetabird/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140422_185455_zpsafuva9pj.jpg.html)
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/zetabird/Mobile%20Uploads/20140422_185514_zpsflzbhff6.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/zetabird/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140422_185514_zpsflzbhff6.jpg.html)
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/zetabird/Mobile%20Uploads/20140422_185534_zpslrr4ezme.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/zetabird/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140422_185534_zpslrr4ezme.jpg.html)

the stock is temporary it will prolly get a boyds in the future. i would really like to throw a set of tritium iron sights on it i dont plan on scopeing it

TOWS220
April 23, 2014, 20:20
Just got some batteries for the Pro-Point, once I am happy it is shooting OK I will blast and Cerkote it all. They make a neat toy :D

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af98/Andy_the_Aussie/Guns/FNMauser45ACP_zpsf45b83e0.jpg (http://s997.photobucket.com/user/Andy_the_Aussie/media/Guns/FNMauser45ACP_zpsf45b83e0.jpg.html)

That is a beautiful little gun there, Andy. What's the low down on the wood finish?

Andy the Aussie
April 23, 2014, 23:39
Thanks mate.. :D

Just rubbed it down with steel wool and sweated out the bumps as best I could, some walnut deck stain I believe it was (will check when I am in the garage next) applied with a rag and a couple of coats of polyurethane sprayed over.

TOWS220
April 24, 2014, 11:36
Could a 10mm auto mauser be built? Are the 10mm 1911 mags the same outside dimensions?

zetabird
April 24, 2014, 12:10
i dont see why not but isent the 10mm the same diameter as a .40 only longer?

TOWS220
April 24, 2014, 14:23
Ya, rim diameter is smaller than the .45 acp. 10mm rim is .425 I believe.

zetabird
April 25, 2014, 08:19
that could be a fun one to, never messed with 10mm tho.
annnnd heres a picture of it after all fitting and shimming, i also reground the feed ramp and polished it, next is to reprofile the front of the stock and figure some way to retain the upper rear handguard, i would like to have another one made like the one i have but solid with no cutout where it goes around the rear sight base

zetabird
April 25, 2014, 08:20
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/zetabird/Mobile%20Uploads/20140424_192814_zpsyfvcdpqo.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/zetabird/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140424_192814_zpsyfvcdpqo.jpg.html)

zetabird
April 25, 2014, 08:25
i do have a kinda dumb question is this barrel stainless just thought ive smoothed it out to get rid of the machining marks and havent oil it yet but rheres no surface rust, and it didnt have anything on it when i got it eather

BubbaTheKid
April 25, 2014, 09:14
This youtube ninja used a 91/30 Mosin Handguard on top and the Mauser bayonet lug to go mannlicher style which I thought was clever. Personallay, if/when I do this I want to have the bayonet option... I'm stabbie like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X8etije5_g

zetabird
April 25, 2014, 09:39
huh didnt think of the mosin upper i know i have a few laying around ill have to look

BubbaTheKid
April 25, 2014, 10:59
Somewhere a Bannerman is nodding approvingly. Thanks for taking us along on your build adventure. Pretty sure your barrel is Not Stainless; just in the white etc.

zetabird
April 25, 2014, 11:58
err bannerman?

BubbaTheKid
April 25, 2014, 12:36
My bad. I over nerded. I grew up by Bannerman's Island. This article should sort it out.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/bannermans-special

zetabird
April 25, 2014, 12:54
AH was hoping it wasent a horribly insulting derogatory insult that i didnt understand lol ya it still needs some work to get it perfect but it feeds smoothly so im gonna take it out tonight to see if it shoots or explodes

BubbaTheKid
May 16, 2014, 12:43
Any updates on any of these builds?

zetabird
May 16, 2014, 12:55
ya mine functions pretty good still needs some fine tuning on the feed ramp and shiming the stock, the wood was pretty rough so it didnt sit just right. right now the the action is at a local smith getting the barrel threaded and getting a tail mounted for a red dot or something, i should actualy hear back today it should be done this evening

357ross
May 16, 2014, 14:12
Any pictures? I would like to see the finished project.

zetabird
May 16, 2014, 14:15
ill throw some up once i get it back, i still need to find a micro red dot on the cheap for it for now, its just having one rail mounted to the front ring untill i decide if i want to grind the stripper guide down to mount a rear for a small scope or one piece rail. id like a flash supressor for it untill i get a the tax stamp filed and get a supressor but that will wait, i had it threaded for standard 45acp without realising that there seams to be onely two options lol so well see

Clark
May 17, 2014, 22:37
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/45acpTurkishMauserShilen452barrel.jpg

I got this 1903 Turk from BIG5 for $50 in 2000.
I got the 45acp throater reamer from Brownells in 2000 for $30
I got the .452" Shilen Barrel blank from Brownells in 2002 for $104
Somewhere I got a 0.469" straight fluted reamer

In 2002 I put it together and started shooting groups at 100 yards with 45acp brass, 230 gr FMJ and 460 Rowland pressures.

357ross
May 17, 2014, 22:52
Very nice rifle. Have you had any problems with useing 460 Rowland pressures? (Brass problems?)

Clark
May 18, 2014, 10:26
For groups at 100 yards, 230 gr FMJ is what works for me, but the pressure testing that I can post in an organized way is 185 gr. So just look at this for concepts, not for target loads.


0) 45 acp....................... 185 gr 7.6 gr AA#5 jams w/stock Patriotspring
1) 45 acp........................185 gr 10.2 gr AA#5 1100 fps 18,000psi
2) 45 acp +P...................185 gr 10.8 gr AA#5 1200 fps 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super.....................185 gr 12.4 gr AA#5 1312 fps 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland............... 185 gr 14.5 gr AA#5 1500 fps 38,800 cup
5) Easy extraction ...........185 gr 15.0 gr AA#5 *rifle
6) Case starts to stretch..185 gr 15.2 gr AA#5 *rifle
7) difficult extraction ........185 gr 16.0 gr AA#5 *rifle
8) primer falls out ............185 gr 16.5 gr AA#5 *rifle

zetabird
June 06, 2014, 14:06
well got it back from the "smith" got a short rail mounted on teh front ring for a red dot, it dosent look like i wanted but it works and after he said he could thread it he called saying he ordered the die to thread the barrel and they sent the wrong one, he told me he was gonna use a lathe.. so he took it to his brother whos a machinist to use his lathe but they wouldent do it becuse the barrel was to thin, he said that the thickness between the bore and the lowest point in the threads,(minor diameter i think its called) would be unsafe. now i could be wrong but isent the thickness there the same on all .45 barrels threaded for .578x28? i may have to find someone on here to thread it for me there arn't very many good smiths around here i guess

BubbaTheKid
June 12, 2014, 15:15
This guy mentioned a shop that threaded his:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A07ljnNtLV4

zetabird
June 12, 2014, 15:28
wow his is set up the same as mine with the red dot lol ill look into adco tho thanks

zetabird
June 12, 2014, 15:30
wow 140 to thread a barrel kinda steep i may try to get a cncwarrior kit and do it like i did my mosin..

BubbaTheKid
June 12, 2014, 15:58
Yikes! I only referenced it because I had seen it. Point is that it is do-able. Obviously. Thanks for keeping us posted. Still looking for the right contender over here.

zetabird
June 12, 2014, 16:06
Ya thanks for the link. I need to fi d what the starting diameter is for the threads it may be close